\n<\/p>\n
Happy holidays, BiggerPockets listeners. You\u2019ve all been good this year, so instead of a lump of coal, you\u2019re getting a special episode delivered on the most merry day of the year. We\u2019ll be sharing Yamundow Camara\u2019s unbelievable journey from dirt-poor poverty to INCREDIBLE passive income, even against all odds. If you\u2019re unsatisfied with your holiday gifts this season, listen to this episode\u2014it may change your ENTIRE outlook on life and give you something to be extra grateful for today!\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n How do you go from absolute poverty to <\/strong>passive income<\/strong><\/a> in a short amount of time? What if you were raised on the other side of the world<\/strong>, where even a basic education had to be fought for, and every opportunity was a constant struggle? This is the real story of Yamundow Camara<\/strong>, who went from sleeping on a dirt floor<\/strong> in a small village of Gambia to making a million dollars per year <\/strong>thanks to real estate.<\/p>\n Yamundow grew up in an environment foreign to many of us. When her parents passed away in her youth<\/strong>, she was forced to live with relatives that treated her as a nuisance, not someone worth nurturing. She slept on the floor of her family\u2019s home<\/strong> and was sometimes lucky enough to have a cardboard box as a mattress<\/strong>. She was set to be wed in her early teenage years, but thanks to her drive, determination, and pleading of her aunts, Yamundow was given a chance to go to high school and college and later immigrate to the US.<\/strong><\/p>\n From there, Yamundow put success as her sole focus. She not only academically overachieved, but was able to do an INCREDIBLE amount of investing with almost no money, no credit score<\/strong>, and no experience in the industry. She now sits on over thirty rental units, with a monthly income that rivals most Americans\u2019 yearly salaries<\/strong>. Yamundow has one of the most incredible stories we\u2019ve ever shared on the podcast, and you\u2019ll have to tune in to hear her unimaginable path to success.<\/p>\n David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: David: Rob: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: Rob: David: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Rob: David: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: David: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: David: Rob: David: Yamundow: David: Yamundow: David: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: Yamundow: Rob: David: Rob: David: Yamundow: David: Rob: Yamundow: David: Rob: David: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email <\/em>[email\u00a0protected]<\/span><\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast, holiday edition. I am your host, the Grinch of Real Estate, and I\u2019m being joined today by my favorite elf. He\u2019s an angry elf. Rob Abasolo.<\/p>\n
Call me angry one more time.<\/p>\n
If you\u2019re listening to this when it\u2019s airing, then we\u2019re wrapping up 2023, and a lot of us are spending time with loved ones. So today we\u2019re bringing you one of the most beloved episodes of this past year, our interview with Yamu Camara.<\/p>\n
Yeah, we\u2019ve heard a lot of inspiring stories over the years on this show, but Yamu\u2019s story really struck a chord with people and with myself personally. I remember choking up during the interview and you guys were like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the question?\u201d And I was like, \u201cyes, that\u2019s right. What happened next in your story?\u201d And it was a really just inspirational story. It\u2019s one of my favorite that we\u2019ve ever heard on the show specifically because it just shows you what\u2019s possible in the world of real estate, no matter what\u2019s holding you down.<\/p>\n
But it\u2019s not just her story that\u2019s impressive. It\u2019s also her results. Yamu is making over $80,000 a month from her real estate portfolio, and she breaks down exactly how she did it in just two years. All with strategies that are still relevant today, like house hacking and medium-term rentals.<\/p>\n
And by the way, to everyone listening, we so appreciate you being a part of the BiggerPockets community. We love you. We thank you. We\u2019re grateful for everything you do for us. So please, from the bottom of our hearts, enjoy this episode.<\/p>\n
Welcome, Yamu to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you this morning?<\/p>\n
I\u2019m doing great. Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n
Yes. Let\u2019s jump right into this thing. I want to hear about your story. So tell me where are you originally from and can you give us an idea how you grew up?<\/p>\n
Sure. So my name is Yamundow Camara, but I go by Yamu for short. I\u2019m from West Africa, a small country called The Gambia, West Coast. It\u2019s by Senegal, it\u2019s little country inside Senegal, literally. So it\u2019s about two point something million. I\u2019m the seven child of my family, and yeah, I grew up in that small village. I lost my mom when I was two, and I lost my dad when I was 11. So I was raised by my elder sister. And yeah, that\u2019s a little background about me.<\/p>\n
So what was it like growing up there? Most of us have not traveled to the continent of Africa, much less where you\u2019re from. Tell us a little bit about what daily life was like.<\/p>\n
Yeah, so it\u2019s more of we live in extended family. So when my mom passed, I was two, when my dad passed, before my dad passed, he was really sick, so my sister was forced to get married. So she took me with her and my brother, my elder brother was like four or five years older than me, so I grew up as an orphan in her in-laws house.
It was hard growing up in an extended family that you don\u2019t belong in because usually we live in family. So let\u2019s say a family member, like a husband has maybe four wives or five wives, and they have kids. So that household is all, let\u2019s say the last name is Greene. It\u2019s like Greene Kundamini. Everybody in the house is called is Greene. So you coming in with a different last name, it\u2019 like you don\u2019t belong. There\u2019s some activities that you will not participate in because you\u2019re not a child of that household.<\/p>\n
So it was clear growing up from an emotional standpoint, you were a stranger in a sense, in the house. I mean, they knew who you were, but you were not welcome with open arms as if you were one of the kids. There was preferential treatment. At a very young age, you had to experience a lack of control in the pain that comes from not really having control over the outcome of your own life.<\/p>\n
Yes, basically.<\/p>\n
So I mean, you were thrown into a situation, you had very little control. Sounds like there was a lot of pain. Did you have your own room? Were you sharing a room with other people? What was that like?<\/p>\n
No. So sometimes I would come and as a child just playing with other kids outside and I just run in to go drink water and there\u2019s a meeting about us, about me and my brother being returned. So I always thought, \u201cOh, so we don\u2019t belong here.\u201d And it really hurts as a child. I saw this meme on saying on TikTok the other day, and it clicked to me. I was like, \u201cThis is how it feels like. You don\u2019t know what pain is until you live in somebody\u2019s house who doesn\u2019t really want you there.\u201d And I was like, \u201cThat was me. That clearly explains my life.\u201d
So I wasn\u2019t allowed to sleep on the bed, so I would lay on the floor. When I say floor, I mean like sand floor, not cement, not like carpet or anything. So me sleeping on the floor, an eight-year-old, nine-year-old girl, I\u2019ll have bed bugs. Sometimes worms will come and they will touch me and I\u2019ll just wake up. So my brother made me this torch light. Flashlight, you guys call here, and I\u2019ll just use batteries there. And that night I would just wake up and I\u2019ll kill the bed bugs on the wall.
So I guess from there I was always obsessed with houses because I never really have. My father\u2019s house sometimes when I visit for holidays, we would not eat sometimes. Sometimes we eat once a day. And sometimes when I go one time it was the rainy season, the summer holidays, and we would have to get up because the water was coming inside the house. That\u2019s how poor we were.
So me laying down there as a girl, I always say I\u2019m obsessed with houses. So when I see friends whose houses after school, I like to go to their houses and I always wondered one day, I\u2019m going to get this house, one day I\u2019m going to buy a house. But I didn\u2019t think buying multiple houses, I would just say just the idea of having a house.<\/p>\n
You mentioned in that TikTok\u2026 Well, first of all, thank you so much Yamu for sharing.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\n
No, no, no. You mentioned in that TikTok that when you\u2019re not wanted in the home, I think that\u2019s when you experienced the pain, right?<\/p>\n
Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n
And so I\u2019m wanting to know, was that really the moment, that inspiration where you\u2019re like, I am going to find my own place one day, I\u2019m going to have my own bed. Was that the beginning of your real estate dreams or did it come later on in life?<\/p>\n
Yes, that\u2019s where it started. I always knew one day I\u2019m going to make it and one day I\u2019m going to buy a home. That was my dream to say one day I also have a home and a bed, so I\u2019m like a house of my own.<\/p>\n
Is that your why? Is that today your why is the reason you do all this is basically to fulfill that dream?<\/p>\n
I have multiple whys, but that\u2019s one of them.<\/p>\n
What else you got? I want to know.<\/p>\n
Poverty. I don\u2019t want my child to go through any of those things that I went through ever.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s something as you were talking Yammu that I thought of for you growing up in a house, I\u2019m sure the genesis of why people felt like they didn\u2019t want you guys there, they talked about you leaving was there was not enough money to go around. If you were not eating maybe one time a day they were incredibly financially stressed, and so you\u2019re a burden in a financial sense you and your brother on this other family and they\u2019re thinking from their flesh is what\u2019s the easiest way to lighten my own load? And the emotional pain that has on someone else as you experienced was intense.
Now, fast forwarding to where you are now, you have 90 units that you own and more under contract, you\u2019re making $80,000 a month. You\u2019ve come a long way from sleeping on a floor, having to wake up to kill bed bugs that were looking to crawl into where you were. I know I just give a spoiler alert to everybody listening to this, but it is a fantastic story. This is something right out of a comic book. Do you know that you\u2019re a superhero?<\/p>\n
I wish I was. Thank you.<\/p>\n
Okay. Well, we\u2019re going to find out how you did this, right? What happened where you went from just wanting a bed to owning multiple, multiple, almost 100 units at this point? So let\u2019s go back a little bit again. We understand that life was challenging in other ways other than just financial, especially as a woman in a male-dominated society. Can you list some of the things that you were not supposed to accomplish?<\/p>\n
Yes. So this is not how the life of a girl from my village supposed to be. I\u2019m the only one that went to college in my village where growing up a girl is supposed to just go to all the way to maybe middle school and then you\u2019re supposed to get married. For me, it was hard for my aunties to push and my sister to push, for my uncles because the male have more say in the woman\u2019s life, especially when you\u2019re getting married, your uncles take care of it.
So by the time I\u2019m like 16, 17, they already thinking of arranged marriage. They\u2019re already thinking of who are you going to get married to, it\u2019s already arranged for you. So for me, for them to even let me to go to high school, to college was a big deal. Talk less of coming to America by myself, I had not been married. So by the time I was in high school, most of my friends that I grew up, they already had two kids already married and everything.<\/p>\n
Yamu. Did you have to fight to go to high school? Was that a really big battle with I guess your family or your extended family in the household? I mean, I got to imagine that probably didn\u2019t come easy.<\/p>\n
Oh no. I didn\u2019t have to fight. My aunties had to fight. I had to go through my aunties. I don\u2019t have the audacity to stand up to my uncles. So my aunties would say, \u201cAt least she\u2019s smart at school. The principal says she\u2019s really good. She has a scholarship, we\u2019re not spending any money, just let her go.\u201d The same thing with college. It was like, \u201cShe has a scholarship, let her go.\u201d They begged.
Okay. After this, they already had the person I\u2019m going to get married to. I already knew who I was going to get a married since I was a young girl. So it\u2019s pre-arranged marriage. So I already knew. They were like, okay, she knew she\u2019s going to marry this guy when she\u2019s done. So it was like I\u2019d go to my auntie, my mother\u2019s sister. My mother\u2019s elder sister, who\u2019s passed now, rest in peace, but she was fighting for me a lot and my sister.<\/p>\n
Wow. So you mentioned that obviously your why was the ability to eventually go on and have your own bed and own your home, and you said you don\u2019t want to go back to poverty, and that was a big motivation for you. Was that the same with school? Because you mentioned you\u2019re very good at school. This was something that you worked hard at. Did you work hard? Was school in your mind, your ticket out at that moment? Did you know, okay, if I really crush it in school, if I study and I get good grades, this could be my ticket out of this life?<\/p>\n
So for me, I was like, \u201cOkay, if I do so great and every exam on top of my school, I\u2019ll always have scholarships.\u201d So where I\u2019m from is nepotism. For you to get scholarship, you have to have connection to the government or something. I have none of those connections. So the only way to get through is be to the best from my school, the best outstanding one. So I was hoping if I can get to that top, they will not say, \u201cOh, we don\u2019t have money for her to go, or we don\u2019t have this.\u201d It would just be, \u201cOh, she has a scholarship. What are you losing? It\u2019s nothing. She\u2019s just going to go.\u201d And that\u2019s how it happened.<\/p>\n
Wow. Okay. This is an amazing story, Yamu. Again, I thank you for the vulnerability here. Tell us a little bit about your first entry point into real estate. Was that here in the States? Was that back in Africa?<\/p>\n
No. So it started in the States here. With Africa, I just knew that one day I\u2019m going to make it and buy a house, but at some point I just wanted to get out because the more I go on my education, the more I know this is now what I want more. So from high school, I know I want to go to college. I was like, \u201cThis is going to be a big deal for me to beg them to go to. So I have to do really good for me to get a scholarship to get it.\u201d
So I made it to college because they eventually allowed me go to college. It was more like, \u201cOkay, you have to be a doctor.\u201d African families, they dictate your life, especially you\u2019re a woman. So it was like, \u201cYou\u2019re going to be a doctor.\u201d I have good grades in chemistry, but I don\u2019t like biology and chemistry at all, and I don\u2019t like blood. So I was like, I have to figure a way. So there was this program, computer science that was introduced. Because I was good at math, it kind of clicked for me and I said, \u201cThis is what I want to do.\u201d So I did a bachelor\u2019s in computer science and a minor in mathematics.
So during my final semester at this point, there was just few girls or maybe two of us, I think two or one of us in computer science class. So I\u2019ll go to some class, it\u2019s all boys, right? So I was like, \u201cYou know what? Let me start a nonprofit organization that\u2019s going to teach girls how to program, how to code, just basic IT skills.\u201d
So I started this nonprofit organization. At that time I already to have an internship at a software company in the country there. So I would use their computers and we would travel with my colleagues in the organization and teach girls basic IT skills, like how to create a calculator, how to create folders and stuff like that. So it took off and then different regions were doing it.
So at that time there was this program called Mandela Washington Fellowship, and it\u2019s for Young African Leaders that are doing amazing things in their communities, like fighting wars, helping women, violence, crime, all that stuff. So a lot of people would send me these link and say, \u201cYou need to apply because you\u2019re doing amazing things.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI can\u2019t compare to what these people are doing, but okay, I\u2019ll just apply.\u201d
And I applied and I keep going. First interview at the U.S. Embassy, I was selected. Second one, I moved on to the third one, and then they email me from D.C. and say, \u201cYou got it. You come to the U.S. You\u2019re going to come to the U.S. and we\u2019re going to place you at Northwestern, and after your fellowship you meet President Obama in D.C. So that\u2019s how I came to the U.S.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
That is amazing. I mean, was that a dream come true or was that so far out? Because for me, I have imagine your dream was to go to college, but maybe I\u2019m sure you never imagined this, right? So what did that feel like?<\/p>\n
I was like a celebrity. My auntie was so happy. So that was also a ticket. At that time, I was like, \u201cI\u2019m not coming back to marry this guy.\u201d I mean, there\u2019s so many other things for me. There\u2019s more for me to accomplish than just come back and get married and that\u2019s it. And that\u2019s what happened. But then I was already applying for other scholarship at that time.
So by the time the U.S. Embassy was processing and doing the orientation of how it\u2019s going to be when I meet the president, all that stuff, I was already applying for schools here in the U.S., and I got a full scholarship to study at the University of Illinois, and I was like, \u201cWhen I come back, I\u2019m not going back.\u201d<\/p>\n
That\u2019s amazing. So you were studying, I guess computer science in Africa, and then you come to Northwestern and what are you studying At this point?<\/p>\n
It was business. Business and entrepreneurship. Yep.<\/p>\n
Okay. And so obviously you crush it, you make it, you finish the program and you go into these respective careers, or is this when your real estate journey begins?<\/p>\n
Yes. So I had to find roommates. So what happened was my whole class, mostly what their parents will do is get them a place and then they will rent out the rooms, more like rent out the spaces in the room. So in one room you can have, so let\u2019s say the rent is $800 or $1000, they will rent out each room. They\u2019ll rent up to 80 residential students to sleep on there.
So the whole concept of renting a room is more like renting a space. So you get your mattress and you share one room with three other girls. So we were paying rent to them while they take the money, make profit and take them money and pay their American chief.<\/p>\n
We call that arbitrage.<\/p>\n
I was going to say it\u2019s the ultimate house hack. House hack arbitrage.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Okay. So it sounds like you saw that happening and instead of thinking, well, I\u2019m being ripped off, or that\u2019s not fair, they\u2019re charging more than they have to. You thought, oh, I want to be in that person\u2019s position. I want to own the asset, and I want to be renting out to people, right?<\/p>\n
Oh yeah. I was like, \u201cThis is amazing idea.\u201d I was like, \u201cI\u2019m going to do this one day.\u201d So I always had even when I was starting searching for my first property, I was looking for a property that has more than one unit, so that way I could do more rooms to rent.<\/p>\n
I love that. See your data scientists brain was like, okay, the pattern that I need to catch on is a property with more than one unit, more than one bedroom. A lot of spaces that can be rented as opposed to a pretty kitchen or a nice backyard or the things that everybody else is, \u201cOh, I love the oak tree in the front yard.\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cNo, no, no. There\u2019s no space in an Excel spreadsheet for an oak tree. I need to see the place that I could get the most beds into this unit. I love that.\u201d When did you start trying to invest in real estate yourself?<\/p>\n
Yes. So after I graduated, of course I don\u2019t have any savings, but I don\u2019t have student debt, right? And of course coming as an international student, you get a social security, but I never knew anything about credit. Because I lived in a school setting. I worked for the school. I go home study, come back, work for school, go home study, come back, go to class. That\u2019s all I knew. So there was no introduction to credit or anything, credit score.
So I have a debit card that the bank gave me that I get my thousand dollars from. That\u2019s it. So I don\u2019t have any credit. But again, when I graduated, I had a job to work for the CDC in Atlanta. So I moved from Illinois to Atlanta, Georgia to work for the CDC as a data scientist. First couple of months I started September 2019, just few months later, COVID happened. But before COVID happened, I\u2019ve already started doing my research. Because I was like, \u201cI\u2019ve ever made that much money that I had.\u201d
At that time, I have saved up 8,000. I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m ready.\u201d By then because I love reading. So I went and said, \u201cOkay, my first paycheck, of course, I have to send money back home.\u201d And as an immigrant, you can ask any immigrant, especially from Africa, if you travel to the U.S. or travel abroad, you\u2019re like the ticket. So everybody depends on you. Every morning you have a ticket of your family and stuff.
I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is not going to work out where I just work and send money and that\u2019s it, but when does it stop and when do I save?\u201d So I said, \u201cThis is what I\u2019m here to do, and I\u2019m going to take all what I save and then start investing in real estate.\u201d And of course, before thinking of, I already knew I would do real estate, but I don\u2019t have the knowledge. So what I did was I Googled, went on YouTube and I see BiggerPockets coming up a lot. So this is me, of course.
And David and Brandon, every Wednesday you guys have this event that you do. That\u2019s me in there every day listening. At work, I\u2019m listening to the podcast. I\u2019m cooking, I\u2019m listening to the podcast. I\u2019m in the train going to work, I\u2019m listening to the podcast. So by the time I was already had so much information, I said, \u201cOkay, they said the best way to get funding, of course funding number one is to go and work with local banks.\u201d
I was like, \u201cOkay, I cannot afford Georgia. Of course at the time, it\u2019s like, let me start with where I saw what I wanted to do, which is Illinois.\u201d So I looked at properties in that area, the same city that I went to college in Springfield, and I wasn\u2019t finding properties. So I called different cities, different banks in the city, made a list, and I call each of them every day. I\u2019ll make different calls and I get a lot of no\u2019s, but I\u2019m used to getting no\u2019s. I didn\u2019t let that stop me.
So I finally got one bank to listen to me and I said, \u201cI just started working at CDC. This is how much I make. This is just my base salary, but I\u2019m going to get more as I go. And this is how much 8,000 is what I saved up. I\u2019m ready. I\u2019m buying, looking for properties in this private area.\u201d So I already have my document and my speech ready for when I call what I saved.<\/p>\n
And how many banks did you call, Yamu?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s a lot of banks. I think I listed all of that. I just went on Google and I listed all the banks.<\/p>\n
And then finally you got one that would hear your story.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Well, she\u2019s the vice president of the bank now, but before she wasn\u2019t. So she was like, \u201cWell, I know you got all these great things and you know how to analyze properties and you know what you want, what expert you want to go to. However, you don\u2019t have any credit score. What you can do is go get a discover credit card, Capital One Credit Card and build your credit score, and then you can come back in six months or in one year.\u201d
So I was like, \u201cOkay, at least she get to listen to me.\u201d And then I was like, \u201cYou know what?\u201d Because every day I\u2019m analyzing this. I was doing a project analyzing this every day. I was like, \u201cI got this. This took my chest.\u201d So what I did was I was like, \u201cThis is what I would do.\u201d
I found a property that was listed for 52,000. The owners were going through a divorce and they were desperate to sell. They wanted to get rid of it. They wanted to separate and do all of that stuff. So I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d Found this property. I went under contract even before approaching the lady. So I approach her back and say, \u201cI found this property, it\u2019s 52,000, it\u2019s three units, two bedrooms at least are rented for 750, one bedrooms, are rented for this much.\u201d
Even if only one unit is rented, I have still cash flow. So I wrote the numbers down because I run it and the calculator and everything makes sense. So I submitted to her, and then I called her. I submitted via email first, and then I called her. She was like, \u201cYou know what\u201d we\u2019ll give you a chance.\u201d And they were like, \u201cWe\u2019ll finance it.\u201d And that\u2019s how it happened.<\/p>\n
Okay. So you go down a list of basically every bank in the city, you keep hearing, no, no, no, but not a big deal because you\u2019re used to hearing. So you just keep going. Finally, someone is willing to hear you out, and before you actually get the pre-approval or the approval from them, you find this house and you say, \u201cI\u2019m just going to make an offer. I\u2019m going to get it under contract and I\u2019ll figure out the financing later.\u201d
And so you get it under contract and then you go to your banker, you\u2019re like, \u201cHey, I got it. Hello, can you approve me?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cAll right, we\u2019re going to make an exception for you.\u201d And then they basically fund the loan?<\/p>\n
Yeah, they funded it. They were like, \u201cWell, the reason why we did, it\u2019s because it\u2019s not like your credit score is bad. You just don\u2019t have history.\u201d<\/p>\n
Right.<\/p>\n
So because my credit is fresh so it doesn\u2019t have history, but it\u2019s not bad. And I don\u2019t have any other debt. I don\u2019t have any other expenses. I don\u2019t own a car at that time. I\u2019m not paying anything except those two credit cards she told me. And I was already paying those off for two months before. She was like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll do it.\u201d<\/p>\n
Wow, that\u2019s amazing. So you buy this property and you said, \u201cAll right, even if I just rent one, I\u2019m going to cash flow.\u201d What ended up happening? Did that property end up filling up more than that? How many units was it?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s three units and it\u2019s a two bedroom. It\u2019s a mix of two bedroom, one bedroom. Everything that could go wrong in a deal went wrong in the property. Turned out the property manager, the numbers that the agents sent me were wrong. The tenants were not actually paid because it\u2019s a COVID at this time. I closed on that property April 17th. It was already shut down already. This is COVID time.
The one tenant that was about to leave, and there\u2019s another tenant that hasn\u2019t paid for like one year, and then there was one unit that was vacant. So them telling me they fully occupied and was bringing this much was all a lot. So what I did was the unit the tenant was about to leave was in a better shape. So I just painted that, just basic cleaning and painting and then rented that out.
So while all that was rented, the rent was coming in. After there was an announcement that the city were giving out to people that were behind on rent. So remember that the landlord and everyone has lied to me already at that point. So the tenant that was supposed to get that amount of money, about eight months worth of rent was sent to me directly because it was supposed to be an application between the landlord and the tenant. So we applied together and she got 8,000. So I took that 8,000 and I put it to renovate the other units, and now it\u2019s cash flow for 2,000 a month and my mortgage\u2019s only $300.<\/p>\n
Wow, that\u2019s amazing. Okay. So a bit of a rocky start, but then you\u2019re able to work it out. And out of curiosity, because you said at this time you were working for the CDC, right?<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Okay. So was this particularly a difficult time? Because obviously you\u2019re working for the CDC, COVID is happening. I\u2019m sure you\u2019re busy doing your actual job and then you\u2019re also getting into real estate. Everything is going wrong. So obviously you have to balance everything. Was that overwhelming or was it like no big deal?<\/p>\n
It was overwhelming, but it taught me so much. So at that time in my team, well, everyone in my team is a lab scientist. So we work in the lab. I\u2019m the data scientist. So every time a lab scientist go into the lab, let\u2019s say they go at 2:00 AM, I have to be up by 4:00 AM to run the data so they can get the report to send it to a particular state. So imagine all the data that\u2019s coming on all 50 states about COVID.<\/p>\n
A lot.<\/p>\n
Yeah, it was a lot. So I will be up at 4:00 AM. I\u2019ll have my laptop waiting to analyze data while I\u2019m also checking my real estate and trying to figure out what the numbers and everything. So it was not easy at all, but I was still listening to podcasts as I never get, I was already in. I had to figure it out, but it was not an easy time. Yep, it wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n
Right. And so you go on to buy more properties, but you said that you were struggling, you were saving and maybe you had to send a little money to your family back home and then you had to renovate this property. So how did you keep saving money or how did you save money to keep buying more property? Was there a specific skill or strategy that you developed?<\/p>\n
Yeah, so when I got that first property stabilized, I was like, \u201cOkay, what next thing I need to know is move on because I\u2019m not having any much cash flow coming in at that time.\u201d So the property was actually cash flowing a lot, like 2,000 a month, but however, I\u2019m not getting the money like it\u2019s going back to the property manager. So the property manager was stealing from me.
Every time I talked to him, he said he uses his card to pay his contractor because most property managers come with their own team. So he said he paid his contractor. For example, let\u2019s say he said, \u201cI paid a contractor 5,000 to do the flooring and paid for this unit.\u201d And I would just do my calculation. The numbers are not making sense, but I know that it\u2019s cash flowing, right? Because the tenants are paying at this point, and my property manager always say, \u201cOh, Chester this or Chester that.\u201d
So I know the contractor\u2019s name is Chester. Of course I\u2019m a data scientist if I want to find data anyway, I would find it. So I went and researched on him. It\u2019s a small town. I researched on him, I found him, and I was like, \u201cHey, my name is Yamu. I know that you don\u2019t have to answer these questions, but I have this property in this place and this is the address and I know you worked on it.\u201d So he responded back and said, \u201cYes.\u201d I was like, \u201cCan we jump on a call?\u201d And he was like, \u201cYeah, sure.\u201d
So I asked him, I was like, \u201cDoes this receipt make sense? Did you charge me this much?\u201d He said, Well, I don\u2019t know.\u201d He\u2019s an honest guy, older guy. He was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know how much you guys talked about, about your contract, but I will never charge this price and this other receipt is not even for your property, this is for another property.\u201d
So it turns out that he was charging me, sending me receipts because I\u2019m out of state investor, right? He was sending me receipts of all the properties that he was working on, and I was just paying for that. So I fired him, and of course I stayed with the contractor and he\u2019s a full-time contractor for me now. We have an amazing relationship. So even though everything went wrong, I got my team from there and he\u2019s made me millions.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
I learned and I have been with him ever since, worked on all my properties.<\/p>\n
It must\u2019ve been actually great though, that he ended up being a lot cheaper than you thought, right? So whenever you used him again, it was actually more affordable. So how was it working with him? I mean, because you said you worked with him to this day. Was he a large part of a lot of the projects that you went on to go and work on?<\/p>\n
Oh, yeah. He worked on all my properties in Illinois. So I invested in Midwest, Illinois, Cleveland, Ohio, Illinois and Georgia here. So all my properties, majority of my properties are in Illinois. He worked on all of them.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
But that\u2019s how I scaled. And then, yeah, so scaling from that property after finding him, I was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m not going to find a deal that\u2019s as amazing as the 52 units. $52,000 property, that\u2019s three units that I placed for almost 90,000 after few months of fixing it.\u201d So I was like, \u201cOkay, where else could I invest in?\u201d
Of course, I went back to BiggerPockets, and this time I was so active. So I was like, \u201cWhat do I do next?\u201d So a lot of investors were talking about, but especially California investors those who are buying Cleveland. So I reached out to them, \u201cHey, my name is Yamu, I\u2019m a new investor. I\u2019m looking to invest in Cleveland.\u201d So I get a lot of responses. Some will say, \u201cDon\u2019t invest here. This is the A area, this is B, this is C area.\u201d But the areas that they\u2019re recommending for me to invest in, I can\u2019t afford that. So I said, \u201cI\u2019ll stick with the C, D area and then grow up from there. And that\u2019s what I did.
So I found this new place in Cleveland that\u2019s listed for 68,000. So the owner has listed two of them actually. So I wanted both of them because at this time my cash flow and my property is Section 8, all three units cash flows come in. The bank is impressed with that. So again, I bid the documentation, put all the numbers together, and I sent it to them. They were like, \u201cYep, we\u2019ll finance it.\u201d<\/p>\n
And this was your second deal, right? Your second and third deal-<\/p>\n
Second deal, yeah.<\/p>\n
\u2026 with two duplex. Okay, cool.<\/p>\n
Yep, yep, yep. So the bank was like, \u201cYeah, we\u2019ll finance it even if it\u2019s out of state. The numbers look great.\u201d 68,000, mortgage was 250 something, it\u2019s two units, one was seven something so the other one was six something, so I was getting 1,345 or 1,350 or something like that. And the tenant pay all the utilities, I only pay water and sewer.<\/p>\n
Okay, so walk us through this really fast. Your first property, you said you bought it for like 55,000, you fixed it up, it appraises for 90,000. So you\u2019ve built in $40,000 of equity. You\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, I think I experienced probably the worst part of it. I\u2019m going to do it again.\u201d And then you go and buy two duplexes and the bank finances those. And then just for reference, how many units did you actually end up adding to your whole portfolio in year one?<\/p>\n
In year one, I think about maybe at least seven.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
I think seven or eight. Yeah.<\/p>\n
First year of real estate investing with no foundation other than listening to BiggerPockets and doing research and everything like that, listening to the great David Greene and Brandon Turner and you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to do this.\u201d And then you go out and you buy seven properties. So you get that first one, two duplexes. Tell us about the next four really fast.<\/p>\n
So the next one I was like, \u201cOkay, at this point I\u2019m getting cashflow, I\u2019m getting a lot of cashflow, and I just got promoted my job.\u201d So I was like, \u201cOkay, from this I want to scale more. What can I do?\u201d So at this point I\u2019m looking at, I was like, \u201cHow about I take the cashflow with few months and buy a really cheap house?\u201d So I\u2019ve already built a relationship with that contractor.
So what I did was I found this property for 15,000. It was also a foreclosed property, so I got it for cheap. They probably got it for less than that, but I got it for cheap and it was a five bedroom, two bath. My contractor charged me 9,000 to fix it up.
Even at that point, I don\u2019t have 9,000. I think I have like 3,000 at that point that I have in my savings and the rest, I was expecting it to come from the cashflow because I\u2019m getting 2,000 here and 1,300 over there, so I was going to pay him in installment. So that\u2019s how I got that. Once I fixed it up, I rented it on Section 8 as well, and then I had equity in that property. So the bank was like, \u201cYou can pull out equity from your property if you want to scale.\u201d That\u2019s how I did that.<\/p>\n
David, there\u2019s a term for doing that, right? When you fix up a property and then you take the money out.<\/p>\n
Yeah. And there\u2019s also a method to scaling, both of which can be found at biggerpockets.com\/store by checking for the BRRRR book or the SCALE book. Yamu, I wanted to ask, did you get these ideas because you\u2019re tinkering with different real estate investing strategies, you\u2019ve got the arbitrage thing. You talked about rent by the room, Section 8, a little bit of long distance investing as well. You\u2019ve been working into this, right? Did all of this come from BiggerPockets?<\/p>\n
Yes, it did. And I know you\u2019re going to ask me in the end what\u2019s my favorite book and I have it here. So this made sense to me because I live in Atlanta, at the time, there\u2019s no way I can afford property at Atlanta at that time especially with a credit score, so I could only afford outside. It does have to be your background.
And me learning that from BiggerPockets, I was like, \u201cWhoa, a light bulb went.\u201d I was like, \u201cof course I can do it at State.\u201d But a lot of people that I talked to, even at work, my colleagues, they were like, \u201cThere\u2019s no way you can, being a landlord is hard. You cannot fix a toilet while you out of State.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cThere is the method. I\u2019ve already read and then I\u2019ve listened to multiple people do it. Why can\u2019t I do it?\u201d<\/p>\n
Well, when you mentioned that you found the better property manager that allowed you to scale. That\u2019s what I thought of was sometimes we just kick around trying to figure out, this is going wrong, that\u2019s going wrong, and it affects your emotions. You\u2019re not excited about buying more real estate because it feels like just nothing but problems.
You got ripped off by the first contractor that would make anybody want to quit, right? Once you get your heart broke, you don\u2019t want to love again. You don\u2019t want to put yourself out there and find somebody else, so you just quit. But when you found the right person, it changed your process to be emotionally excited instead of emotionally discouraged. And so the Labcorp for I\u2019m sure really helped. Can you remind me where were you at with passive income at the end of year two?<\/p>\n
By year two by 80,000 because I\u2019m list April. This last April is my third year of investing. So by 2022, I was making like 80,000.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s gross rents, correct? That\u2019s not your profit?<\/p>\n
No, no, that\u2019s profit.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re making 80,000 profit after your second year?<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s profit.<\/p>\n
Wow. After your second year. What was your first year? Do you know off the top of your head?<\/p>\n
I think the first year I was close to like six, 7,000. But then what happened was I got a package deal, so it escalated fast. With the package deal some of the units turnover was like two weeks, three weeks. So my contractors will actually go into the unit and to the property and live there. So they would stay there for that two weeks while they\u2019re fixing it. So I was renovating houses faster.
So what happened was the reason why it scale faster, so I took that second job as a statistical programmer for Labcorp. It\u2019s a six-figure job. I did the interview. I didn\u2019t think I was going to get it. The next day they called me, they were like, \u201cYou\u2019re amazing, you can start on one day.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d So I got that six-figure job so I was dumping all that money into buying more real estate. So I was buying packages at this point and just turning them on Section 8.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re working a full-time job for the CDC. You have a mastermind with people from the BiggerPockets community. They\u2019re like, \u201cWe all have two jobs. You should have one too.\u201d And you\u2019re like, \u201cAll right, sure.\u201d You go, you apply, you get a six-figure job. And then they\u2019re like, \u201cYeah.\u201d So now you\u2019re making really good W-2 income, and instead of spending it going out and just having fun, you\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m just going to put it all into houses.\u201d<\/p>\n
Everything, everything into houses. So I\u2019ll buy package deals, five units package deals, six unit here, five single properties. So I was just doing and sleeping with them.<\/p>\n
Okay. All right. So you said your first year of passive income six, 7,000 or something like that, year two, it goes from six, $7,000 of passive income a year, and then year two it\u2019s $80,000 of passive income. are those numbers right?<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
Okay.<\/p>\n
The reason why it got to 80,000 is because at this time COVID had happened, 2021\/2022 everybody\u2019s talking about Airbnb short-term rentals. So in Atlanta everybody was talking about especially social media. So my social media page, what I did was I created a new page and I followed just real estate, everything that has to do with real estate. So I get a lot of people advertising about you can get a property, you can do Airbnb without owning a property. I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d
So I looked into buy a few courses here and $100 here, 150 here, and I joined this masterminds. I was like, \u201cI\u2019m just going to jump in and do it.\u201d I credit an LLC just like the courses would say, and I approached apartment complex here. So I was like, \u201cHow about I get these in my LLC name and I can arbitrage it?\u201d
So I got one unit, I arbitraged it. And two weeks, three weeks into it or three months into it, I got a booking for $40,000. So the company booked for this guy.<\/p>\n
Nice.<\/p>\n
Yeah, the company booked for him from New York. He\u2019s going to be working in Atlanta a whole year. So it was like $44,000. I was like, \u201cThis is a double brainer.\u201d So I got multiple. Now I have eight units in Atlanta.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s really cool. Let me just clarify something. When you said year two, your passive income was 80,000, was that 80,000 per month or per year?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s per month.<\/p>\n
Oh my gosh.<\/p>\n
Yeah. So my Section 8s were bringing in about 15, 16,000 and then I was making about 40 something thousand on Airbnb with the multiple properties.<\/p>\n
Wow, okay. So year two is 80,000 per month I thought was per year, and I was like, \u201cOh, 80,000 bucks a month. I mean, most people work for 10 years to get to that level, just $8,000 a month.\u201d So you\u2019re getting $80,000 per month. And so you get into the Section 8 game, you get into medium term rentals and you do arbitrage. Were any of those your favorite or were they all just like fun because it\u2019s all just new?<\/p>\n
Section 8 was more of a dream to give a family a home. The midterm rentals were more of me buying and scaling. In 2021 when I was doing the arbitrage, I was like, \u201cokay, I already have bad run real estate where I had my own properties. How about I take this money instead of renting from apartment complex here, how about I buy my own apartment complex?\u201d That\u2019s how the 80,000 came about for month.
So what I did was I was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to take this method in Atlanta the arbitrage, but use the money to buy my own apartment complex.\u201d There\u2019s a single family and rented on Section 8. So I found this property that\u2019s listed for the same city that I invest in Section 8. I found this property that was listed for 145. It was abandoned for two years and the landlord just wanted to sell and get rid of it.
So there was a fire incident that happened and he was going through a lot of violations. So he had the city removed most of the violations, but it was almost the aim. So when I came in, I offered 10 and 120 and he accepted at closing, I got about 5,000. Again, I approached the bank and I told them the method that I\u2019m doing. So I always had this relationship with the bank already. I always make sure they know what I\u2019m doing.
So I told them about the short term rental, big term rental, and they were like, \u201cThat\u2019s not going to work in a small city like this.\u201d What they don\u2019t know is that property works for me because at this point I have experience with travel nurses. So that property was between two hospital, 1.6 miles from another one hospital and 1.2 miles from another house. So it\u2019s perfect for me. I did the analysis, the market research, and most of the people that were renting to travel nurses there were like a month\u2019s have passed.
So let\u2019s say a family has a basement and they would rent it to travelers a shared room or something. I would say, well, if I have this property which is eight units and multiple mixture of single one bedrooms and studios, I could do that too. So that\u2019s how I ended. The bank was like, \u201cWe thought you were crazy, but this is amazing number.\u201d
So with that property that helped me scale to 20,000 because when I had my contractor going there and he leaves one hour from that city, he came in there and he gave me a code for 85,000. I gave it to the bank. They were like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ll finance it.\u201d Of course I put 20% down. And my contractors, they gave me, they were like, \u201cIt\u2019s a lot of work that he needs. What we can do is give you a grace period of three months, so you only pay interest.\u201d That was amazing.
So my contractor was like, \u201cWe will move it. I\u2019ll fix it from up and move our way down.\u201d So while they were fixing, but let\u2019s say they fix two units, I\u2019ll furnish it and have nurses on it. I\u2019ll list it to have nurses already coming in. So by the time it was almost complete, I was only paid interest, no mortgage. That property alone brings me 22,000. That\u2019s how I scale to the 80.<\/p>\n
Wow. 22,000 a month?<\/p>\n
A month, 22, 23, 24 here.<\/p>\n
Yeah, just 22 to 24,000. Like no real big deal.<\/p>\n
Be conservative.<\/p>\n
Yeah. So my mortgage was just 1,200 and then each unit, I pay my utilities for 1,200 worth my mortgage, and each unit utilities is like $100, $110, 120, something like that.<\/p>\n
Okay. I got two questions I want to ask. The first is, do you have one person managing all these assets in different locations or are you doing that yourself?<\/p>\n
No, so Cleveland I have a property manager. Cleveland Properties, remember when they came in with tenant occupied already. So I was managing for a while, but when I was scaling with mid-term rentals here, I have to find somebody to manage it. So I have a property manager in Cleveland, and of course in each of the cities, the closest cities will have one property manager.<\/p>\n
Yeah, you really are following the long distance real estate and then you manage those individual property managers, right?<\/p>\n
Oh, yes.<\/p>\n
Okay. Next question. How are you running your numbers? You\u2019ve got a different approach to this, and I\u2019m curious if your data scientist background led to you looking at things differently, but can you share what your system looks like when a property comes your way and a bank thinks, well, this is all the income in would generate, you\u2019re able to generate more than that. What are you doing differently?<\/p>\n
Yes, so this is how I run my numbers, right? If the numbers not make sense, I\u2019m not going to push it just to say I have this unit. For Section 8, I want to get at least 800 to a 1,000 profit because it comes with more work, more attention and everything. With short term rentals, I was just looking to scale. So it depends on how much I furnish it. If I\u2019m going to put 2,000, $3,000 or up to $5,000 per unit, I want to get at least $1,000.
So with Atlanta, I could get all the way profit to 2,000, especially at the peak season, per profit, per door. So that\u2019s how I run it. Depending on how the property. With Section 8, I\u2019m looking at at least $1,000 because it needs more work and I have to have pay the property manager maintenance of course. So I include all of that. So that\u2019s how I run the numbers.<\/p>\n
And I\u2019m going to assume you\u2019re also factoring in they need the cashflow more because in some of these areas you\u2019re buying in, you mentioned C to D areas, they\u2019re not going to appreciate as much and the headache factor is higher. So you have to make up for that by getting more cashflow to make the juice worth the squeeze, so to speak. And that\u2019s where you came up with these numbers, right?<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
For people who hear this and they think, I want to do what she\u2019s doing, which I\u2019m sure everybody\u2019s going to be thinking, what are some of the challenges that people need to be aware of if you want to grow a portfolio, the way you grew yours?<\/p>\n
There\u2019s so many challenges. You\u2019re going to go through property contractors. There\u2019s no investor that\u2019s going to tell you, oh yeah, Mike, I have one contractor from day one never stole from me, nothing. I went through crappy contractors to get there.
Property managers, even though you have a property manager, doesn\u2019t mean you don\u2019t manage. You still have to run the numbers to make sure this makes sense because if I didn\u2019t do that, I wouldn\u2019t know that a property manager was stealing from me or even sending me receipts of all the properties. It\u2019s not an easy day, easy way out. You have to figure it out. You have to run the numbers, and of course you have to always analyze deals for it to make sense. If it doesn\u2019t make sense, you can\u2019t force it.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s also, I\u2019m hearing you mention there\u2019s a lot of management that goes into the properties once you have them, you have to look very close, which I think you learned at a relatively early stage because in one of your first deals or the first deal you were taken advantage of.<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
That separated you from this idea of passive income that you just bought it, forgot it, and there\u2019s nothing more to it that rhyme. Maybe we need to start saying that, but you have to pay attention to your investments that it\u2019s not a thing that runs itself. It\u2019s often described that you buy a property, it\u2019s turnkey, it makes money, and you just go have fun on the beach or vacation everywhere, and your real estate pays for all of it. You don\u2019t have to still work. Has that been your experience or has it been more like it\u2019s a second job?<\/p>\n
Or a third job for Yamu.<\/p>\n
Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Well, now that I\u2019ve, well not mastered it, but now that I\u2019ve learned, I\u2019ve gone through so much mistakes and I\u2019ve learned, I could say I could go chill at the beach now. So I\u2019ve got everything in place. I have a property managers in place. I have systems in place, I\u2019ve automated things. But the beginning, no, you have to actually work the business to actually make it work. You can\u2019t just buy and just forget it.
There\u2019s so many things that is involved with it. Yeah. So now I do day-to-day stuff, like I have a VA that go through my funds, find the messages. I have property managers that do. All I do now is sign leases and analyze this.<\/p>\n
So Yamu, obviously you came from Africa. I got to imagine that the tax code is very different there than it is here. So you can come here, you\u2019re crushing it, you\u2019re making $80,000 a month. You have two full-time jobs. You\u2019re making six figures on the W-2 side of things. Tell me a little bit about your tax situation once you actually started really making money. Was this a big shakeup for you where you\u2019re like, oh my gosh, I have to pay the government money? What was that whole situation?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a really good question. It\u2019s so shock coming from Africa where we don\u2019t pay taxes like that. So the beginning, I already had my salary and because I wasn\u2019t making a much, I actually get to get a tax reform and I was like, \u201cThis is amazing. America is nice. At the end of the tax, you get money.\u201d Then I started invest real estate, and then when CPA tells me you\u2019re going to be paying the IRS $30,000, I was like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I was like, \u201cNo, but in real estate, when you invest, you get to save.\u201d It was like, \u201cNo, but not when you make millions.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhat?\u201d That\u2019s when I realized what my tax bracket worse.
And then he said, \u201cAnd also your W-2 is not helping because you have two W-2s that are paying you six figure now.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh my God.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cIf it wasn\u2019t for real estate, you would be paying way more to IRS than what you\u2019re, so the real estate is actually saving you.\u201d And then I was like, \u201cYeah, this is going to continue. I can\u2019t pay the IRS this much.\u201d
So of course, four months ago, I let the Labcorp job go and I just stick with the CDC one because now it doesn\u2019t really make sense having that kind of cash flow. It\u2019s just that when I added my Savannah Properties here that are bringing me about 15, 16,000 a month in just Savannah, Georgia, I was like, it doesn\u2019t make sense for me to get two jobs now. So I let it go.<\/p>\n
Well, it\u2019s also probably really hard to achieve real estate professional status with two full-time jobs and being the real estate thing. I know that there\u2019s always conflicting stuff on that. So this always reminds me of that. There\u2019s a meme out there that\u2019s like, \u201cIt\u2019s the U.S. government.\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201cAll right, you have to pay us taxes.\u201d And then you\u2019re like, \u201cHow much?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cWe don\u2019t know.\u201d
And it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what happens if I pay you too little?\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, you owe us a lot of money, if you do, we\u2019ll, fine you.\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat if I pay too much?\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cWe won\u2019t tell you. You have to figure that out for yourself.\u201d And that really is exactly what the tax system is. It\u2019s like you don\u2019t know until your CPA is like, \u201cHere you go. You owe 30, $40,000.\u201d
So you quit your job. And did you figure out tax strategies or anything that was saving you money in the long run? Were you doing any kind of cost segregation or any depreciation to knock down your tax bill?<\/p>\n
Yeah, so my CPA that I hire does all of that for me. And then we have meetings every quarter. So he tells me and project how much I\u2019m going to be having. I remember one time it was like, \u201cYou have about 40, $60,000 that you need to spend before November.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh, okay.\u201d So I just dumped it on a property. I bought a property for 40,000 more house. I fixed it up. It pays for 200,000.<\/p>\n
It sounds like Rob\u2019s tax strategy. He\u2019s just like that. I owe how much? I\u2019m going to go buy something right now.<\/p>\n
Yeah, exactly. I\u2019m like, all right, let\u2019s write it off baby. It\u2019s a write-off. You guys ever seen that Schitt\u2019s Creek? Where he\u2019s like buying everything and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou can\u2019t just keep buying it and saying it\u2019s a write-off.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s a write-off.\u201d<\/p>\n
It\u2019s a write-off. Who pays for it? The government.<\/p>\n
The government.<\/p>\n
They write-off people.<\/p>\n
The write-off people. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n
So let me get a recap of your overall portfolio Yamu, you have Cleveland properties and those are mostly Section 8, correct?<\/p>\n
Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Okay. You have Savannah, Georgia properties. How are those being operated?<\/p>\n
So those are mid-term rentals.<\/p>\n
And then where else other than Savannah and Cleveland?<\/p>\n
So I have Illinois, I have Springfield, I have Champaign, Urbana-Champaign, all that sub-areas in Illinois. So I have eight units here and there, five units. So since I got the eight unit, it makes sense. Since I was getting so many inquiries for travel nurses and I\u2019m not able to get them a place because it\u2019s all booked out. I was like, \u201cI need another one.\u201d So I got another apartment complex. I got another one that, I got another one, I kept going.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s so cool. So I have a mix of mid-term Rentals and Section 8.<\/p>\n
Okay. And how many units total are we at now?<\/p>\n
So I have 33 doors, including the one that I just bought here, so that\u2019s 34.<\/p>\n
Wow. So you have about 34 doors now I think is what you said. When you were a kid sleeping on the floor, all you wanted was a bed of your own in a house.<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
How does it feel to achieve what you\u2019ve achieved?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s unreal. Sometimes like this is me? And this is why I give a lot, especially when it comes to my team, so I know where I started, right? It\u2019s just so real for me. But I always knew that I wanted just one house. I wanted a nice bed. I wanted to experience what other kids experience that I didn\u2019t, but I never knew beyond my imagination, this is all God\u2019s work.
God put me in this place to actually buy houses, fix them up and give it to families. That\u2019s why I said earlier mentioned with Section 8 is more of me housing kids like me or someone who could not buy their own home. And then the short term rentals just came into play, but it\u2019s so fulfilling for me.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s really cool. As eight-year-old are you proud of Yamu?<\/p>\n
Yes. I\u2019m very proud of myself. I\u2019m so grateful to God.<\/p>\n
Well, you mentioned the tips with keeping your contractor happy. I\u2019d love to end with that. If you have anything you can share with the audience about strengthening that relationship with your contractor and keeping them happy, I\u2019d love to hear it.<\/p>\n
Just to say this, my husband says, \u201cWhen my contractor calls, my phone rings, I\u2019m so eager to take the call than anyone else, including him.\u201d I was like, \u201cWell, he made me millions, you didn\u2019t.\u201d When they\u2019re working, I buy lunch. When they send me pictures and I\u2019m so happy with the work and I\u2019m like, \u201cDinner\u2019s on me. So they\u2019re staying there.\u201d And also I stock their fridges, buy groceries and send it because they stay there when they\u2019re fixing the properties with his guys. So those are nice things. And I upgrade his phone. He\u2019s an older guy, doesn\u2019t like technology and just little things like that.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s really cool. Yeah, you got to take care of your contractors. I mean, finding a contractor that you click with is hard already, but finding a contractor that you can click with for five years is even harder. And I think, yeah, got to keep them happy so that you can keep a lifelong of home building and home renovation going.<\/p>\n
Well, Yamu, I think that we\u2019re all flawed after listening to what you\u2019ve done. I mean, you talk about it so nonchalant that you\u2019re doing this well. I mean the collective jaws of the BiggerPocket sphere have dropped as they were listening to this. We will definitely need to have you back to dive deeper into some of this because there\u2019s so many elements from the power of your story to the way that you\u2019ve scaled to the passive income you\u2019re making, to the systems that you\u2019ve set up, to how BiggerPockets helped you learn all this.
I think so many of us listened to this and we only see the reasons that it can\u2019t work. And you came in and said, wait, you\u2019re going to give me all this information for free, and you went and put it to play. And what do you know? You\u2019re one of the most successful investors that we have ever interviewed. And how many years has it been?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s going to be three years April 17.<\/p>\n
Yeah, there\u2019s people that take three years and can\u2019t finish one of the books. I don\u2019t even know how to put into words what this has been like. It\u2019s just fantastic and I really appreciate you sharing your story. Are there any last tips that you\u2019d like to leave with our audience who are struggling to get started?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s just to start, and like BiggerPockets said, analysis by analysis. If you stay there, you don\u2019t actually jump and do execution, it\u2019s not going to work out. You can listen to all the podcasts, you can read all the books, you can go to all the networking events, you can do all of that, but if you aren\u2019t actually execute, it\u2019s not going to happen. And I know it\u2019s scary, but you have to do it. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Well, when you grow up without a bed, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re as scared of failure as somebody who has never faced that level of adversity. And the littlest amount of rejection seems overwhelming. So I mean, who would\u2019ve thought that those bed bugs would someday be a blessing? But maybe that could be the title of your book, how Bed Bugs Become Blessings when you write it because you definitely need to. Rob any last minute thoughts from you?<\/p>\n
No, just wanted to thank, Yamu. I appreciate the vulnerability and the openness that you had with us. I know it\u2019s like probably hard to talk about sometimes, especially coming out to BiggerPockets, but I think there will be hundreds of thousands of people that listen to this podcast and their life will change because of your story. So I just want to thank you.<\/p>\n
Thank you so much.<\/p>\n
And thank you again to Yamu for sharing her story and her success with us. One other happy note to add here, Yamu welcomed a new baby girl to her family shortly after this interview. She and her family are growing and are all doing well.<\/p>\n
Well, I can tell you firsthand that this angry elf is now a warm and cheery elf. And thanks to all of you for listening and for making the BiggerPockets community what it is. We\u2019re excited to bring you more new shows coming up and throughout 2024. And for everyone listening, have a wonderful rest of the year.<\/p>\n
This is David Greene. For Rob the no longer angry elf Abasolo signing off.<\/p>\n