\n<\/p>\n
Want to double your real estate portfolio <\/strong>and bring in much more cash flow<\/strong>? What about using <\/strong>some of your untapped home equity<\/strong><\/a> to invest<\/strong>? Today, we\u2019re showing you how to do just that on this episode of Seeing Greene<\/strong>, where we get into real estate partnerships, paying off rental properties, using home equity to invest, and the not-so-secret repeatable thirteen-percent return real estate investment<\/strong>.<\/p>\n Green means go, so we\u2019re flooring it in this episode as David Greene<\/strong> and expert guest James Dainard<\/strong> bring some high-level investing tactics you can use to build wealth<\/strong><\/a> even faster. <\/strong>First, we get a question from Real Estate Rookie<\/em><\/a> guest Matt Marcelissen<\/strong><\/a>, wondering how he can double his real estate portfolio<\/strong> by harnessing the power of partnerships. David and James give some rare advice on why you SHOULDN\u2019T split things 50\/50<\/strong>. Next, an investor wants to know if his low ROE (return on equity) rental is worth paying off<\/strong>. Then, what to do when you have home equity<\/strong> but can\u2019t sell the house? And finally, James\u2019 thirteen-percent return investment he\u2019s using to pay for his kids\u2019 college!<\/p>\n Want to ask David a question? If so, <\/strong>submit your question here<\/strong><\/a> so David can answer it on the next episode of Seeing Greene. Hop on the BiggerPockets forums<\/strong><\/a> and ask other investors their take, or follow David on Instagram<\/strong><\/a> to see when he\u2019s going live so you can jump on a live Q&A and get your question answered on the spot!<\/p>\n David (00:00): David (00:49): Matthew (01:21): Matthew (02:15): David (03:03): James (03:06): James (03:58): James (04:44): Matthew (05:43): David (05:48): Matthew (05:51): David (06:11): David (06:55): David (07:40): David (08:25): James (09:20): James (10:37): James (11:50): David (12:12): David (12:50): Matthew (13:45): David (13:49): James (14:35): David (14:37): James (15:45): David (15:53): Jaime (16:26): David (17:23): David (18:08): David (18:49): James (19:25): James (20:14): James (21:06): David (21:41): James (21:52): David (22:47): David (23:39): James (24:35): James (25:19): James (26:13): James (27:02): David (28:01): David (28:42): David (29:24): James (29:51): David (30:07): Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email <\/em>[email\u00a0protected]<\/span><\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast show 9 1 2. What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate podcast, the show where we arm you with the information that you need to start building long-term wealth through real estate today. Today\u2019s episode is a Seeing Green episode that I\u2019m bringing to you from Las Vegas where I\u2019m attending a Keller Williams real estate event and I brought in some backup. James Dayner and himself joins me to tackle your questions and help you all learn how to build more wealth, get more real estate, and put together the life that you\u2019ve always wanted to live in today\u2019s show, we got some really good stuff. We talk about trapped equity, what to do when you are equity rich, but cashflow poor. How to think about equity like a bank account and where you\u2019re storing your energy, including the pros and cons of the different ways that you can store energy.<\/p>\n
And if you want to know how to get a 13% return, James is going to share one of his strategies with you all. So make sure you listen all the way to the end to get that information. Now up first we have a live caller wanting to double up his portfolio and we\u2019re going to take that call right now. So buckle your seatbelt and get ready. Let\u2019s see some green. Alright, up next we have Matthew Marli in Houston. He was featured on the BiggerPockets Rookie episode 3 47 and today\u2019s Seeing Green. We\u2019re doing our best to bring the BiggerPockets community into the podcast. Matthew, what\u2019s on your mind? Hey<\/p>\n
Guys, good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me, David. Firstly, I wanted to thank you so much for all of the information that you\u2019ve doled out over the years. You guys have been instrumental in my success at helping me become stage one financially free. So super enthused and thank you so much. And James, congrats on the market. I love that podcast. I listened to the episodes as soon as they drop. So today wanted to ask about partnerships. So I currently have 11 units over four properties. I have all the TRS, S-T-R-M-T-R-L-T-R. My 2024 goals are pretty ambitious. I\u2019d like to double my monthly profit from 5K to 10 K, and to do that I may need partnerships. I\u2019ve already completed one partnership that went really well in New Braunfels, Texas. I gave my buddy a stellar deal. He may not know it. Just kidding.<\/p>\n
I tell him all the time. So not only did I bring the time and the knowledge, but I also brought 50% of the funds to the closing table as a Texas real estate broker. I did receive some commission that I put some into the business startup fund, but as I continue on this journey, more friends are noticing my success and they want in totally don\u2019t blame them, but since they\u2019re busy w tours, they really can only contribute money and not time or knowledge. And we know that equity partners are more expensive than debt partners, but I do want to share this adventure with them. If you or me, how would you structure future partnerships that give my friends a fair return but also acknowledge my knowledge and time that I bring as well?<\/p>\n
All right, I\u2019ve got some thoughts on that, but James ladies first<\/p>\n
Appreciate it. I absolutely love this question. We all do this when we first start getting investing. When you get going, you\u2019re trying to raise the money, you\u2019re offering massive service to start grow it out. I did the same thing throughout all of my twenties, partnering with people over providing the services. I definitely think I brought a lot more to the table than they did, but at the time, well, no, at the time, they were bringing a lot because they\u2019re bringing the cash in. And as you grow, you have to adjust your partnerships and your offering because a one, you\u2019re a more established operator with better systems, which means a safer investment for them. And your time is money that prevents you from scaling. And so that\u2019s one thing I really had to figure out in my early thirties was like, Hey, I love these partnerships, but because I\u2019m doing so much work, I can\u2019t keep growing in certain aspects.<\/p>\n
And so you always want to audit those throughout the years, but typically a lot of us do that 50 50 split in the beginning and there\u2019s nothing wrong with that, but it\u2019s about exploring all the different options and what you need inside your business. There\u2019s so many ways you could do it. Actually, we just built a calculator that allows people to play with it all and make offerings out for people and so they can play with the different fees throughout it because there\u2019s different ways you can cut it up. You can still do a 50 50 split, but you\u2019re still working throughout the deal in my opinion, 50 50, they would bring the cash in and then you can also fee it throughout each transaction, right? Like when they purchase it for the leasing, if there is a turn and you have to lease it up for a month, you can charge a fee there.<\/p>\n
The reason you want to charge your fees isn\u2019t to be greedy. So you provide your company the capital to grow and scale, and the more capital you have coming in for the fees, the better your business can run, which is going to take better care of your investors. A lot of our fees when we\u2019re doing partnerships, they\u2019re not really profit centers for us, but what they are are engines for quality. Our company runs a lot more efficient now by having these fees because we\u2019re not constrained on capital, it\u2019s not affecting our return. So as you become a good operator, it\u2019s about a, I don\u2019t think you should be bringing your own money in the deal, and if you are bringing your own money in the deal, they should get a much smaller equity piece or they need to bring all the capital, but then make sure you\u2019re charging for your time because you\u2019re going to get your time back by having those extra fees. You can hire out and scale. You don\u2019t want to get trapped in that partnership mud where you\u2019re doing all the work and there\u2019s nothing wrong with it, but it\u2019s not going to get you to financial freedom 2.0.<\/p>\n
Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense and that\u2019s exactly what I was looking to hear, so I appreciate it.<\/p>\n
Before I weigh in, what are your thoughts on James\u2019s answer, Matthew?<\/p>\n
I love it just because I am naturally a doer. So for example, we had a big freeze in Texas and some of our pool equipment froze, so I got my car, drove here and fixed it and did some other things around the house. So I need to get out of that and charging those fees, being able to hire people to do that will allow me to scale.<\/p>\n
All right, Matt, I\u2019m going to weigh in with my thoughts on this right after a quick break. So stick around for some more seeing green truth and welcome back. Matt here is trying to figure out how to double his portfolio with partnerships and then how to structure the splits. All right, I\u2019ll weigh in on this whole idea of partnerships and I\u2019m going to go a little bit deeper, which might not be what people want to hear. Oftentimes what someone\u2019s looking for is just a quick answer. It should be 50 50, it should be 60 40. They just want a shortcut, but life doesn\u2019t always work that way. Most things in life operate with a lot more gray than the quick answer we\u2019re looking for. So when I\u2019m in a situation like you, Matthew, where I\u2019m trying to figure out how do I split a partnership, there\u2019s a few negotiation principles that I\u2019d put into play.<\/p>\n
The first thing is who controls the deal? That person has more negotiation leverage than the other one. So if your partner is finding the property and putting it under contract and they are in control of how things go, they\u2019re relinquishing a portion of their power to you, which means that they have more negotiation leverage than you do. Now, if they are a poor manager of that leverage, they will give you a bigger split than what you maybe deserve. 50 50 tends to come out, everyone feels good about it, but you only feel good about it until you see who\u2019s doing the work and who\u2019s taking the risk. And then you don\u2019t feel good about 50 50 anymore. It\u2019s not as safe of a place to start as what people assume because like James was just saying, if he\u2019s the one managing the risk, managing the clients, taking on all the stress and his partner\u2019s just putting money in the deal, he\u2019s not going to feel good about 50 50.<\/p>\n
It actually isn\u2019t fair like what it said. In fact, the whole idea of fair is actually a social construct we\u2019ve created. There\u2019s no way of ever measuring what\u2019s actually fair. So ask yourself who is controlling the leverage and then how much of your chunk do you want to give away? And ideally, Matthew, you want to be the one controlling the deal. You would rather be in the position that you\u2019re contacting the realtor or you\u2019re contacting the seller. You\u2019ve run the numbers and you know what you want to leverage out. I don\u2019t want to manage the rehab. I don\u2019t want to do the design. I don\u2019t want to figure out the money. You want clarity on what you actually need. It\u2019s not an even 50 50 thing. It\u2019s Matthew has a hundred of it. He\u2019s willing to give away 37% of whatever those things are that you don\u2019t want.<\/p>\n
Okay? Now it comes to what are you going to pay to get that? I would look at it and say for your partner, if we\u2019re assuming that they\u2019re money, don\u2019t say, what is a fair percentage of this deal? Say, what is a fair compensation to them based on what the market is paying with the risk involved in this? So if they can go get 6% money in a CD or 10% money in the stock market with very little risk, maybe you give them a 20% return on their money because there\u2019s some risk in this, they could actually lose it, right? Maybe it\u2019s a home run deal with a ton of equity and there\u2019s almost no risk. You offer \u2019em a 14% return, but the idea here is to set a baseline of what they could make somewhere else and make it better with you. When you\u2019re controlling the deal, you are responsible for making sure that it makes sense for the other partner also. But don\u2019t just default to 50 50 is what I\u2019m getting at because that makes everybody feel good. You want to weigh in on that, James?<\/p>\n
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think when you\u2019re looking at partnerships, don\u2019t rush in because everyone gets excited about the deal and they\u2019re like, I got this deal. I got to go get it done. And they get deal goggles and they forget about what actually they have and what they should be offering. And it is really important for you to walk through the numbers and play with the percentages. What is a great return for that investor and what are you happy with? And at the end of the day, it has to be both. And so when we talk about doing partnerships, we don\u2019t ever ask what people want. We provide them with the opportunity, we know what their return is going to be and we say, Hey, look, do you want to invest in this deal and make an 8% pref with a 20% equity position? Your return should equal out to 25 to 30% over the next three to four years. And when you come with a plan saying, Hey, if we look at this on a one year, two year, three year basis, here\u2019s your return. And if it\u2019s beating where they can get, like David said, it\u2019s a good investment for them, especially if they want to get interested. And the problem being is for them is they\u2019re a W2 employee. They don\u2019t have the time and you have the time, and so they need you.<\/p>\n
So don\u2019t undervalue those services and just make sure it\u2019s worth, if you\u2019re giving someone a 20% return, like David said, that\u2019s a huge return, you might be able to keep 90% of the equity and then as they participate more, maybe they\u2019re signing on the debt instead of you. Maybe I give \u2019em more because they\u2019re taking on risk. And so just looking at each one play with, and then I would suggest come up with two formats. I have an equity with a fee split that I do with people, and then I have a straight equity and they\u2019re weighted differently depending on who the investor is and how they want to participate. And when you model it out, when people talk about me investing with me, I have three things that I offer. That\u2019s it. I don\u2019t make different types of side deals because different types of side deals also require different types of paperwork is really important as you\u2019re working with new investors in the real estate space that everything\u2019s documented with a lawyer set up correctly, whether it\u2019s a lender agreement, an LLC, a joint venture agreement, and an understanding so they know exactly what\u2019s going on because I have had a lot of partnerships in life, some have been amazing that have last almost 20 years, almost no issues, and some have been short-lived and nonstop issues.<\/p>\n
But what saves those partnerships at the end of the, is it all put down on paper so people really know what they\u2019re getting into because people rush into deals and they\u2019re like, Hey, how is this working? And explain the risk. Put it on paper. Have professionals prepare that paperwork after you\u2019ve kind of allocated all your fees and then get your partnership going,<\/p>\n
And that will help you psychologically too. Matthew James is advising on a practical purpose, which is really good, but most people will go into whatever partnership they think is fair, and if no one proposes what is fair, then they\u2019re going to say 50 50. We always default to that. But if you\u2019re bringing them something that\u2019s already been written up because controlling the deal and you\u2019re saying, well, this is what I\u2019ve offered to other people, and then maybe you sweeten it a little bit better just for them, you\u2019ve now set a baseline of what is fair because that\u2019s what the market is offering according to you, and you\u2019ve made it even better so that of course they\u2019re going to be happy doing it. When you don\u2019t do that, their mind is like, well, I don\u2019t want to get less than I deserve, but I also don\u2019t want to get more.<\/p>\n
And there\u2019s no baseline with which people can operate. We talk about that on the David Greene team all the time. The importance of setting a baseline, right? If I am trying to get you to buy a house, Matthew, and you don\u2019t want to go over asking price, it\u2019s because you\u2019ve set a subconscious idea in your head that the asking price is what the house is worth and that\u2019s where your baseline is. But if I can convince you that that house is worth more than the asking price, now you might be paying more than the asking price, but less than what it\u2019s worth. I move the baseline to whatever the appraised value is or the market value. Humans need that in order to navigate these relationships with a lot of fear being taken advantage of and greed of wanting to get more of what they want. So James\u2019s advice is awesome, right? You be the guy to do the work to draft up those documents and then say, Hey, here is the way that I do things. Tell me if you want to do this. And they\u2019re going to look at it and say, well, is this better than what I could get in the stock market? And if so, you\u2019re going to have yourself a partnership where you\u2019re controlling it. Love<\/p>\n
It. Love both of the responses, both five stars. Thank you, David.<\/p>\n
Thanks Matthew. Appreciate you man, and thanks so much for being here with us today. At this segment of the show, I like to review some of the comments that y\u2019all have left on YouTube, as well as some of the reviews that our loyal followers have left for us on the podcast app itself. And then sometimes we get into some forum questions from BiggerPockets. So let\u2019s see. These YouTube comments come from episode 8 97 where we interviewed my homie Felicia Rexford, and if you haven\u2019t seen that episode, I highly recommend you check it out after this one. Alright, our first comment comes from ais Mendoza Trust made me feel at ease that my kids will not be homeless when my husband and I are not around anymore. Different generations have different struggles in life, but I want to make sure that my kids have strong foundations to deal with it. Oh, the mother\u2019s love is something else, isn\u2019t it James? It<\/p>\n
Is. Nothing Trumps that.<\/p>\n
Now be ulu. He says, my husband sent me this episode and he loves learning from your podcast. Thank you for continuing to show us how to diversify our incomes and the steps that you provide for us to get there. And Florian Iwo says, excellent content, just placed my home and real estate investments into a revocable living. Trust brains develop around the age of 26. So think about legacy planning. I appreciate the honesty and pivots and these ideas in turbulent times. And last but not least, we have a comment from the Apple podcast app that says, excellent resource. I stumbled into the real estate game after buying a duplex without realizing how much it would change my financial future. Ain\u2019t that the truth? I remember I bought my first house, James, I had no idea what that was going to do for me. I found BP and dove into all the content they produce and have since used the equity in the duplex to buy a new primary. And I\u2019m working on my first off market seller finance deal. I don\u2019t claim to be an expert, but I\u2019m amazed how confident I am working through this new deal because of my familiarity with real estate, which is in large part due to the education I received through bp. Thank you for all the hard work from redeemed Ski Bum via the Apple podcast. Such<\/p>\n
Nice things and we appreciate all the feedback. I know for us as hosts, we love getting the feedback so we can actually start other types of conversations too.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right. If you would like to be on Seeing Green, simply head over to biggerpockets.com\/david and leave us your question because one, we can\u2019t make the show without you, and two, we just want to get to know you. So let us know what struggles you\u2019re having, what questions you have, what you\u2019ve always wanted to know. If you bumped into David Greene or James Dainard in a bar at a conference, at an event, what would you say? What would you ask it here because here for you. Alright, let\u2019s get into our next question. Good stuff. So far, this question comes from Jamie Dusa in Boston, Massachusetts.<\/p>\n
Hi David. My name is Jamie Dusa from Boston Mass, and my question for you relates to loan pay down. I have a property that I will finally be able to pay off next year. I owe about 170,000 on the mortgage. I have a 4% interest rate and I\u2019ve been into this loan for about eight years now. The property rents for 1850, the mortgage payment is 1400. So when you consider repairs, it doesn\u2019t cashflow very much. The property itself is worth about 450 K as is. So I feel my return on equity is very low. If I paid off the mortgage, this would clear up about $12,000 a year. If you would not consider doing this, what would you think about doing instead? I don\u2019t have access to wholesale deals and I feel the MLS is quite overpriced. Finally, the 1850 I charged should be likely closer to 2,500. What are your thoughts on raising rents? I\u2019ve never done so on current tenants. Thanks.<\/p>\n
All right, Jamie, I\u2019ll give you some practical advice here. First off, check out BiggerPockets podcast episodes 4 48 and the rookie episode 360 9 where we interviewed my buddy Dion McNeely and he has some advice there that just might help you, especially when it comes to raising rents. Second off, I\u2019m in the same struggle. James is in the same struggle that all of you are in. Cashflow is very hard to find and the methods that we\u2019ve utilized to try to find cashflow often end up with you getting a less than desirable property, a less than desirable location, or trading in your W2 for a full-time job trying to find cash flow real estate. And so you didn\u2019t really get a net positive there. How I\u2019ve adapted is I\u2019ve started buying in properties that I believe will appreciate more than the national average. I call this market appreciation equity.<\/p>\n
So I look for literal market, cities, neighborhoods, areas where I think, look, if I\u2019m not going to get cashflow, this needs to make up for it by getting more appreciation than I would get somewhere else, as well as adding value to properties. I have a new book coming out in August. I\u2019m probably going to be calling it better than Cashflow that details some of these strategies. So think about that. If you can\u2019t get the cash on cash return you want, how can you add value to real estate in other ways by buying it under market value, by adding value to it, by buying in better locations where you look back or five or 10 years and say, wow, this thing has performed so well. I don\u2019t even care about the cash flow. Alright, our next question comes from Melissa Alejandro in California. David, I\u2019m stuck in limbo.<\/p>\n
I have two properties, one I live in and one I just got in a trust that belongs to my mom. My goal is to buy a ranch at house, hack my home and maybe sell the house in the trust. The only problem is that my son, his family and my brother all live in the home that is in the trust. I need to buy a ranch first to put them in, then figure out what to do with the trust house. Both houses have equity and I\u2019m not sure I want to use it. I\u2019m thinking a hard money loan for a down payment on the ranch. I need help. After I get situated, I want to invest. I appreciate your time. Alright, so we\u2019ve got some good real estate dilemmas coupled with some mom guilt, giving us a nice little cocktail. James, what are you thinking so far?<\/p>\n
The family guilt\u2019s a real thing. My mom lives in one of my duplex units and I bring in $0 a month in rent, so it\u2019s a great return, but it\u2019s well worth it. And that\u2019s the one beautiful thing about real estate is it can give you financial freedom to where you can help your family out and that is the power of real estate. But we all go through these different transition periods as investors, we have assets we might not want to touch them, especially with low debt on \u2019em right now, we don\u2019t intend on selling them because maybe they\u2019re not traders like I am, they want to keep \u2019em in their portfolio or they have a reason to keep in \u2019em, but they\u2019ve created enough equity that they want to go and acquire more property, but they\u2019re low on liquidity. And so it\u2019s that bridge financing that you\u2019re looking for.<\/p>\n
And there\u2019s two great options for that. One is hard money. You want to find a cross collateralized lender that\u2019s a hard money lender that is going to take your equity position, which will be in second position, and that\u2019s a harder loan to get. Hard money. Lenders will give you cross collaterals. If you own a piece of property free and clear, that\u2019s a really easy thing for them to put a loan on as you\u2019re buying that next property. When it\u2019s in second position, you have to really clearly state what the equity position is, what the cashflow is, and you want to make them feel comfortable. But you can find a hard money lender that will take your equity position and they\u2019ll look at that and they\u2019ll consider that as your down payment for your farm property. In addition to, as you\u2019re a real estate investor, I\u2019m a firm believer working with local banks, local banks look at you as like an asset rather than just a person that fits in a square box like many of the big banks.<\/p>\n
If you move your deposits and banking over to these smaller banks that are local to where your real estate is or where you\u2019re buying and you move deposits over, they will work with you and help you put your plan together. So they will also look at giving you a bridge loan based on your deposits and your properties that you have with equity in \u2019em, and they will bridge it with a construction loan or a bridge loan at that point. So really you want to talk to these local lenders that are more creative because when you\u2019re dealing with those bridge loans, you have to have them be able to see the big picture, not just what\u2019s on your W2 or your tax<\/p>\n
Return. And I think that Melissa here has the right idea. Get another property, move my family into that one, then figure out what to do with the equity. I love these issues that we\u2019re trying to struggle.<\/p>\n
And David, I like what you said about equity, right? As we build this equity, equity\u2019s really a bank account and people kind of hoard it and they\u2019re like, oh, this is my special thing. I have all this equity, I have all this net worth, but it\u2019s just a number on the paper and if you don\u2019t use it, you can\u2019t really ize it. And the purpose of building equity is building a bank account. If I want to go make cashflow, that usually requires money. If you go buy a standard rental property, you\u2019re putting 20% down to make a six to 7% return, or maybe even 10 if you\u2019re buying a good deal. Equity is the same thing. You\u2019re just utilizing, instead of transferring your bank account, you\u2019re transferring property to property. And as long as you\u2019re increasing your position, that is a smart move. And so I think a lot of people need to treat your properties like an ATM, don\u2019t go buy boats, but pull the cash out when you need it and then go reallocate and go buy some more investments. And that\u2019s how you scale and grow.<\/p>\n
Good deal there. In pillars of wealth, I talk about how equity is a form of energy, financial energy that you have wrapped up in a property. Cash in the bank is a form of financial energy that you have stored at a bank account. Your 401k is a form of financial energy that you have stored. Now, different forms of energy have different pluses and minuses. Money in the bank is very liquid. You can use it in a pinch. Energy in a 401k is going to be efficient because it\u2019s not being taxed, but you can\u2019t use it as easily. So understanding the pluses and minuses, the pros and cons of all the places where you can store energy will sort of give you an advantage when you\u2019re playing this investing game. But to your point, James, yeah, if you\u2019re an active investor who\u2019s trying to find deals, who\u2019s trying to put them under contract, you need a bigger proportion of that energy where you can get to it via money in the bank, via a HELOC on a property where you can quickly take the energy out of a house.<\/p>\n
So Melissa, thank you very much for your question here. I think you just need to get a little bit more clarity on what the next deal\u2019s going to look like. Then you\u2019ve got lots of options. You can throw a HELOC on the property that you have right now and use that for the down payment. You could do a cash out refinance if you wanted. I know you didn\u2019t want to take out debt, but you\u2019re going to need to get the money for the next house from somewhere and we\u2019ve got more in store for you. So stay tuned right after this quick break. Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. Let\u2019s jump back in. Alright, and our last question of the day comes from sar. Has Mohammed David, in your episode 8 97, James Dainard mentioned about a hard cash investment that returns 13% per year. Can I please get more information on that investment? Thank you. Well, Sarda, yes. So politely that I brought James in himself. Just to answer your question, BiggerPockets with the white glove treatment. So James, what is this 13% annual return that you speak of and how might one partake?<\/p>\n
When I started preparing for my kids, once you have your kids, you start thinking about my whole mindset changed. You got to worry about 10, 20 years down the road, not just for yourself but for them. And as I saw education in college just skyrocketing the last 10 years since they were born, I wanted to be proactive and kind of stay up with those costs, right? Because the point of investing is to hedge against inflation, hedge against rising costs and to keep you in the game. And I started looking at the 5 29 plan where it\u2019s a great plan, you can invest in it. It goes into the stock market, gets you steady growth, it protects the money. But the issue for me is I\u2019m a high return person. I don\u2019t like to do it traditional. And that has not worked well for me over 18 years.<\/p>\n
The way I do it seems to work for me, which is high risk investments with high returns. So then I started exploring, well, what can I do better that maybe isn\u2019t a shelter but I can get a higher return? And that\u2019s where I looked into a hard money lending fund and you have to be very careful about who you\u2019re investing with. But I basically deposited $20,000 for each kid. And those compound at 10% annually and over 10 years, that $20,000 is going to turn into almost 275,000. And that\u2019s how you keep in. That\u2019s how you keep in the game and you keep up with those rising costs, but you want to make sure you\u2019re doing it the right way and with the right company. The first thing is, many times when you\u2019re investing in these types of hard money funds, they\u2019re going to pay you a return eight to 10% roughly, or depending on what they\u2019re lending it at.<\/p>\n
But you have to be accredited. Now, my kids are not accredited investors, so I did put the money in accounts under their name, my name for them. And so in this hard money fund, I have my own investment and then I have two separate accounts that are for my children that are compounding regularly. You need to vet these operators. There is all sorts of syndicators out there. There\u2019s all sorts of hard money shops that have popped up and they\u2019re newer to the market. And when you\u2019re working with an operator that is not used to market condition changes, that\u2019s where it can be a lot higher risk. And so things you want to do is how long has the company been in business for? What is the operator\u2019s experience? What do they lend on? Is it a high risk investment? The fund that my kids are in with me, it\u2019s a first position deed to trust with intrust funding.<\/p>\n
And so they only lend on properties with first position deeds of trust in a specific area I know well, and the average loan to value is at 65%. And so it\u2019s a safe fund for me to stick my kids\u2019 future in because I know what they\u2019re lending on. So you want to find out who the operators are, how long they\u2019ve been operating for, what they lend on, and then what is the requirements for them to lend because you don\u2019t want to give your money to, whether it\u2019s your kids\u2019 money or money to hard money lenders that are just trying to push money out the door nonstop because that\u2019s how they get into riskier loans. But there\u2019s so many different things that you can do with your kids. You can buy a house in their name, you could buy a piece of raw land for 5,000 and put it in their name and let it grow over 20 years. That\u2019s also going to get you a high return if you buy in the right area. And so just don\u2019t look at just the traditional ways all the time. If you want higher growth, look at what you can execute on. I mean, you can go buy land for five grand, take that money, let it grow, and then let \u2019em sell it to fund their college.<\/p>\n
I think when people hear the ROI, in this case 13%, there\u2019s an assumption that it\u2019s passive. Especially because traditionally most investment options anybody got involved in, we\u2019re all passive. Do I buy stocks? Do I buy bonds? Do I put my money in a cd? Do I give a personal loan? So we created this idea of ROI to compare investment options, apples to apples. Well, if I give them my money, how much of it will I get back every year? But real estate investing is not passive. A business is not passive. We\u2019ve now kind of created a spectrum of passivity and the higher returns tend to come with either more risk or more work. So if you don\u2019t want the risk, you can get a better return by taking on more work. If you don\u2019t want the work, you can get a better return by taking on the risk.<\/p>\n
And if you don\u2019t want either one, you\u2019re going to get a lower return, which means you need more capital to be able to invest. So this podcast, we typically teach people about how to invest their money and there\u2019s going to be some form of activeness. You\u2019re going to be managing a flip, managing contractors, managing a team of people that\u2019s helping you managing a short-term rental. But there\u2019s always going to be a form of management, which is not passive income. So what I\u2019m getting at here is don\u2019t get tricked into just comparing the ROI on a deal. This one gives a 5% return, this one gives a 15% return, this one gives a 25% return. I\u2019m going to go with the 25. That might be a flip that has a lot of risk and a lot of work associated with it. And the 5% return could have been the opposite of that.<\/p>\n
Alright, thank you everybody. Sarda, I hope you\u2019re happy. We got James himself into answer your question and all the rest of you remember, I need you to go to bigger p.com\/david and submit your question to be featured on a future episode of Seeing Green. Also, if you\u2019d be so kind, leave us some comments on YouTube. Let us know what you thought about today\u2019s show and what you\u2019d like to see more of. And if you\u2019ve got a minute, please go leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcast. Those help a ton. James, anything you want to say before we get out of here? No,<\/p>\n
I think these are great. I think keep sending in the questions. I love coming on here with you. Just this is my favorite thing, breaking down the mechanics of real estate. What is that next step? And you don\u2019t know until you ask the question and send in the questions. We will happily<\/p>\n
Discuss \u2019em. If you want to know more about where you can find James or I, just go to the show notes. You\u2019ve got our contact info on there. So if you\u2019re too embarrassed to ask something on Scene Green, you can send us a direct message on your favorite social media. And if you\u2019ve got a minute, check out another BiggerPockets video. This is David Greene for James, the great dard signing off.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n