\n<\/p>\n
Do you know how to ask for a raise<\/strong><\/a>? If you\u2019re like most people, you probably think that we\u2019re asking a rhetorical question. If you think it\u2019s as easy as simply walking up to your boss, asking for more money, and leaving, you probably haven\u2019t ever asked for a raise before. Behind every pay raise request is a clammy-handed employee, hoping that they\u2019ve done well enough to justify that salary bump<\/strong>. Maybe you\u2019re nervous to talk to your boss, maybe you feel unprepared, or maybe you just find it hard to talk about money<\/strong>.<\/p>\n On today\u2019s show, Kassandra Dasent<\/strong><\/a>, program manager and wealth advocate, touches on how every employee can prepare to get the raise they deserve<\/strong>. Despite what most people think, you should NOT prepare for your salary review days before it happens. Kassandra has a simple timeline that allows employees to maximize their raise potential <\/strong>throughout the year. So, when it finally comes time to talk numbers, most of the discussion is already done.<\/p>\n This type of strategy has not only helped Kassandra but numerous listeners of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast<\/a>. But, what if you can\u2019t get a raise? What if your boss says no? <\/strong>What if there\u2019s no budget left for you at the end of the day? Don\u2019t fret, Kassandra lays out the exit strategies you should plan<\/strong> for when career hiccups<\/strong> happen (which they inevitably will).<\/p>\n Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: Kassandra: Mindy: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes<\/a>\u00a0by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast, show number 287.<\/p>\n
You need to actually create a relationship with your boss, a professional relationship with your boss that is positive, and that is open for dialogue. This is what I\u2019m saying. This is a project to people. Asking for a raise is a project. It\u2019s a step-by-step process.<\/p>\n
Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and joining me today is Kassandra Dasent, a world-class connector with the voice of an angel. On top of that, she is a gem of a person and absolutely a joy to be around. Today, we\u2019re going to talk about how to really quantify one\u2019s value in the workplace setting.
I am here to make financial independence less scary but just for somebody else, to introduce you to every money story because I truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone no matter when or where you\u2019re starting. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, going to make big-time investments in assets like real estate, or start your own business, I\u2019ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way so you can launch yourself towards your dream.
We have a lot to unpack in today\u2019s episode because Kassandra has an enormous amount of information to share with you today. Here\u2019s thanks to the sponsors of today\u2019s show. Kassandra, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money podcast. I am so excited to talk to you today.<\/p>\n
Thanks so much for having me. I\u2019m legitimately excited to talk about you, talk with you, I should say, and about this topic.<\/p>\n
I reached out to Kassandra after she posted on Facebook that she is a connector and sharer of information. She offered to share on a variety of topics. The one that really, really hit home to me was how to advocate for one\u2019s self in the workplace with regards to negotiating salary and bonuses. I think that this is something that people know they should do and also really gives people the heebie-jeebies because they don\u2019t want to do it. It really makes us uncomfortable to advocate for ourselves and push, push, push, but if you don\u2019t push, your boss isn\u2019t going to give you a raise, right? So let\u2019s jump right into this. Why do you feel that it\u2019s so uncomfortable for people to really ask for a raise and really ask for a lot of money as a raise?<\/p>\n
I think one of the reasons\u2026 Actually, I don\u2019t think I know. It\u2019s from an emotional perspective. A lot of us are dealing with the fact that it\u2019s almost like survivor\u2019s guilt in the workplace especially if it\u2019s during recessions, if it\u2019s during major consolidation of companies, mergers, things of that nature. So if you\u2019re experiencing that or you\u2019ve had that experience, you tend to feel the thought of, \u201cI should be grateful for what I have. I should be thankful for what I have because so many people are not in the situation that I have that I have a job.\u201d So you get the guilt conscious on you that you should be just thankful and just leave it alone and just take what you get. So that\u2019s definitely one.
For women in particular, I think we\u2019re still working through a lot of constraints in the workplace in terms of whether some of us females are few and far between in our profession, especially in domains such as engineering, science, mathematics, even in the education system, how many are tenured versus not. So already if you feel like you are in the minority, whether it is a visible minority or whatever minority you represent, you feel that, again, \u201cOkay, well, if I have a position, if I feel like, \u2018Okay, I have a good salary. I shouldn\u2019t push this any further.’\u201d So I think definitely it\u2019s a collection of emotions, guilt, and also you don\u2019t know how to do it. Very few people talk about what the roadmap or what\u2019s the process to actually setting yourself up for potentially getting that raise or that transfer or that bonus. So a lot of people don\u2019t really discuss\u2026 Still many of us don\u2019t talk about our salaries, so what makes you think that people are going to talk about the process of how to get a raise?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s so true. It\u2019s not like there\u2019s really this, like you said, roadmap to\u2026 right after your review do this, and three months later do this, and six months later do this. It does have to be this conscious, all the time but not really all the time but all the time process that you\u2019re thinking about. Because how many people have been sitting there, \u201cOh, my review\u2019s next week. What\u2019d I do? What\u2019d I do since my last review?\u201d That is, to me, I sit here and talk about money all the time, and that is me. I\u2019m not looking for advancement in my company. I don\u2019t want to manage anybody. I don\u2019t want to grow my career. I\u2019m at the end of my career. I\u2019m right where I want to be. But that doesn\u2019t mean I don\u2019t want more money. Who doesn\u2019t want more money?
So sitting here, I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh, I know I\u2019m supposed to do my review every January. I\u2019ll remember. I don\u2019t remember. I don\u2019t remember at all.\u201d We talked to Erin Lowry on Episode 169. This is Episode 287, so it\u2019s been a minute. She talked about keeping a success folder in your inbox, on your desktop. Any time anybody gives you praise, like through email, put it in your inbox. If somebody shares with you successful thank you accolades, anything, you put it in your desktop folder so you can remember what it was. You don\u2019t have to rack your brain. You just go into your folder, \u201cOh, that\u2019s right. There\u2019s 27 emails from people who loved me,\u201d or, \u201cHere\u2019s 57 things I did right at the company.\u201d
Episode 169 released a really long time ago. Guess who hasn\u2019t started her success folder in her inbox yet or on her desktop? That would be me. So this year is different. 2022 is the year of Mindy, and I have now a success folder. Every time somebody sends me something, \u201cMindy, I\u2019m so thankful for your podcast,\u201d I get a lot of emails like that, it goes in my inbox or my success folder inbox and it goes in\u2026 I\u2019ve got work things. People send me DMs on Facebook. If you want to do that, it\u2019s [email\u00a0protected]<\/a> on Facebook, [email\u00a0protected]<\/a> on Twitter, [email\u00a0protected]<\/a> if you want to send me a letter so I can put it in my success folder, or you can send one to [email\u00a0protected]<\/a> But not everybody has a boss who hosts a podcast with them. So let\u2019s talk about some of these things. Erin\u2019s success folder is a really great idea. How frequently should I be looking into that?<\/p>\n
I definitely second what Erin said. It\u2019s so important to have a log of your accomplishments or successes, comments, feedback. You need that. Before we even talk about the money part, it validates your work. It lets you know that you are doing good work and that you\u2019re impacting somebody positively. You\u2019re doing good work. So first and foremost, give yourself the kudos to say, \u201cI am getting an acknowledgement.\u201d You know that you\u2019re doing good work, but when you get that affirmed back to you, that confirmation, that knows that you\u2019re on the right track. You\u2019re doing something right. That\u2019s first and foremost.
The other part of that equation is it\u2019s not only important to have that log. Here\u2019s where the money part comes in, and here\u2019s where you start setting yourself up for that conversation is that you need to actually link it back. Whatever accomplishments or whatever feedback you\u2019re getting, you need to link it back to any department goals, any major organization objective, essentially. So you need to know, is this falling in line with what the company wants to do? Is this falling in line with what our department is looking to achieve on a monthly or a yearly basis? So it all has to roll back, roll up, I should say, to the upper levels of your company, your division, or whatever that may be. Because if you cannot quantify your results to management, they\u2019re really not going to give you anything.
That\u2019s the truth. Because as much as you think you\u2019re the best thing since sliced bread, which you are, we\u2019re not saying you\u2019re not, you are, but for money purposes, you need to come with metrics. You need to demonstrate the fact that you were able to resolve X problem has saved the company money or has saved the company from going into a dire situation on a project, whatever that consequence could have been, and you need to map it out. As a program manager, my job is to plan. It\u2019s to expect unforeseen circumstances and be able to address them with potential solutions. From the gate, I need to look forward. I need to be future looking. You know what I mean? You need to do that as well with your career.<\/p>\n
Oh, that\u2019s really great advice. I love that: be future planning. Yeah, you need to pull it back to the business objective. Oh, the business wants to do this. Here\u2019s how I contributed to that big goal, here\u2019s how I contributed to these little goals, and this is why I have earned this raise. That\u2019s another thing that Erin said in her episode was it wasn\u2019t just, \u201cI want a raise.\u201d Well, nice for you. I want a new car. You don\u2019t just get things because you want them. You earn them. You don\u2019t even deserve them. You earn them.<\/p>\n
Exactly.<\/p>\n
Here\u2019s what I have done, and here\u2019s why I am so valuable to this company.<\/p>\n
I think and also just to\u2026 It\u2019s not only the company objectives. Also, typically in a corporate setting or in a company environment, every year, once you do that, we have a common review process, so there\u2019s the department objectives, but then you, yourself, are supposed to come up with personal objectives to show the company that you are looking to grow, that you are planning to grow your career or grow within your position. So whatever you\u2019ve accomplished, you need to find ways to tie it into both: the company objectives and the personal objectives that you identify, that you said were promising to the company that you are going to fulfill, two-pronged.<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s see. I want to make sure that I\u2019m on the right track. It\u2019s been a year since I had my last review. I\u2019m doing great. I know I\u2019m doing great. I want to make sure that my boss thinks I\u2019m going great, too. How can someone check in and use their boss to their advantage to make sure that not only does their boss know that they\u2019re doing well, their boss knows that they are expressing interest in growing, but their boss can help correct anything that they\u2019re seeing? Because just because you think you\u2019re doing great doesn\u2019t mean that your boss thinks you\u2019re doing great.<\/p>\n
Absolutely. I think what you said is key. You have to take the initiative. You cannot allow your career to be determined by your boss because your boss probably has more than one employee. You may not be the only person in their sphere, so you cannot count on them to manage your career. It is your career. It\u2019s your responsibility. If you have a great boss who is\u2026 she\u2019s very forward in the sense that she or he takes the initiative to set up quarterly meetings or monthly meetings, that\u2019s great. But you need to think like the boss because at the end of the day you have to put yourself in their position to say, \u201cOkay, well, how much of the full purse of money am I going to allocate to each employee? Why is [inaudible 00:12:44] deserving 6% raise while Emily\u2019s only getting 3%?\u201d
What I would suggest, first and foremost, is that you approach your boss and say, \u201cHey, I would love to have check-in meetings with you. I know your schedule is busy. I think it\u2019s important for me to be able to tell you what\u2019s going on within the workplace, within my environment, within the team because I know that you\u2019re not really hands-on because you trust us as employees to get the job done, but I know that you\u2019d like a summary.\u201d So whether it\u2019d be a monthly or quarterly call, whether it\u2019d be an email every couple weeks, however that person likes to receive information is how you\u2019re going\u2026 You need to cater to them. That\u2019s the first thing is that you need to take control and cater to them how they like to receive information.
Secondly, you need to be delivering that information. You need to be consistent with how you communicate your results or communicate what\u2019s going on or communicate even obstacles or even situations that are not going well within a project or within, let\u2019s say, customer service. The metrics are off. You need to be able to clearly and succinctly explain the problem, explain what you\u2019re doing to resolve the problem, and communicate with them that the problem is resolved, because that\u2019s what you\u2019re guaranteeing them to do is you are here to resolve problems. That\u2019s what we get paid to do. We create, we innovate, and we resolve problems. That\u2019s what we do as people. So that\u2019s the first and foremost thing is you need to take control. If you want a one-liner, you need to take control of the process, and you need to set and establish consistent reporting to them.<\/p>\n
How much time do you think it would take to set this up? How much time should be spending on checking in with your bosses? Is this a five-minute process? Is this a 30-minute process? Is this per week, per month, per quarter?<\/p>\n
I think it really depends on the nature of your job. Let\u2019s say, for example, you\u2019re working in a call center, you typically have more touchpoints than, let\u2019s say, someone who\u2019s a program manager or who\u2019s in engineering. You may have it just monthly. You may have it biweekly. Again, that\u2019s why it\u2019s important to have that first conversation with your supervisor and say, \u201cHey, based on your current workload, based on your schedule, what works best for you?\u201d You don\u2019t want to be domineering and say, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m just going to send them emails.\u201d You don\u2019t know if they\u2019ve got a thousand unread emails. You don\u2019t. I know I had a boss who had. In reality, that\u2019s it.
So it could vary. It could be weekly. But typically from my experience it\u2019s been biweekly to monthly. Quarterly is a stretch. I think quarterly is a little long. I think you should at least touch base monthly, let\u2019s call it average, at least monthly for at least 15 to 30 minutes every month if you\u2019re doing a con call. If you\u2019re doing email, I would say every two weeks, very short, concise emails, bullet points. They don\u2019t have time to read. Put yourself in the position of your boss always.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s very interesting. You said quarterly is a little long. If you\u2019re listening to this and you\u2019re thinking to yourself, \u201cOh, yeah, I get together with them once a year,\u201d I\u2019m thinking-<\/p>\n
Oh, gosh.<\/p>\n
\u2026 we do quarterly at BiggerPockets, but I also don\u2019t do a [crosstalk 00:16:23].<\/p>\n
Do you remember? My question is, from each quarter, do remember those conversations?<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t remember what I did last week. I have a terrible memory.<\/p>\n
This is why I\u2019m saying it\u2019s important to stay in the front of their thought. Because if you\u2019re not present in their thought. If they don\u2019t think about you at least once every couple weeks, either they\u2019ve got too much on their plate or you have not put yourself in the sphere of consciousness, and that\u2019s really, really important even if it\u2019s for five minutes, even if it\u2019s just for\u2026 My manager and I, we talk about our dogs. It doesn\u2019t always have to be about work, but it\u2019s building that connection and that rapport that you need to establish first before demanding money because that\u2019s very off-putting. You need to actually create a relationship with your boss, a professional relationship with your boss that is positive, and that is open for dialogue. This is what I\u2019m saying. This is a project to people. Asking for a raise is a project. It\u2019s a step-by-step process.<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s talk to our introverted friends. It seems confrontational. I\u2019m not an introvert, and it seems almost confrontational to say, \u201cI want a raise,\u201d because I would love if my boss just recognized it and gave me a big pile of money. But I also don\u2019t like to pay more than I have to for anything, so I can understand why my boss wouldn\u2019t want to pay more than they have to. If I\u2019m not out there advocating for myself, who else is advocating for me? But it seems really confrontational at the same time. So how can our introverted friends make the most of this plan?<\/p>\n
I am an ambivert, if you will, so I can related to many people. I can be social when I need to be, but I\u2019m good at home with my cup of tea and with my dog and I\u2019m fine. Life could stay like that, I\u2019m happy. So I can understand the anxiety that people may experience or just the plain, \u201cI just don\u2019t want to do this.\u201d So I think you have some questions that you need to answer for yourself. How important is getting a raise to you? If you decide on a scale of one to five, let\u2019s say, that one is not important and five is, \u201cOkay, I need this raise because I want this new car or I want to pay debt off,\u201d or whatever that X is, the closer you get to five, then you need to realize that, \u201cOkay, what needs to give in me, what am I willing to give up in terms of discomfort in order to gain?\u201d Because this is an exchange of energy at the end of the day.
If you decide that, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m a four and a five. I want this money. I deserve this money,\u201d so here\u2019s where, again, you say\u2026 If you\u2019re an introvert, typically it\u2019s easier to do this by email. You\u2019re not visually in front of somebody. You\u2019re not having to just read someone\u2019s reactions visually. That\u2019s very tough for introverts. So if your boss knows you as a person\u2026 Again, I come back to building that relationship of understanding so they know you as an employee so they respect your boundaries as well. They understand that, \u201cYou know what? He or she is a great worker. They just don\u2019t do well with face-to-face constantly all the time.\u201d So you have to explain to them who you are as a person. Otherwise they\u2019re going to do things to you that you don\u2019t like. They\u2019re going to make you do things that you don\u2019t enjoy. It\u2019s true.
In my career, I have managed to mold my boss to react to me in a way that makes me feel comfortable. Really, that\u2019s it. It sounds psychologically challenging, but it\u2019s not. I really want to encourage everybody that talking to your boss is not the end of the world. You\u2019re going to have to do it. If you really want the raise, you need to educate them on how you best like to communicate. It takes time. For some it might be easier than others.
If you\u2019re in the situation where a boss is not necessarily respectful of your introvertedness, what I would suggest you can do is perhaps\u2026 It depends if you\u2019re on a bigger team or not, but you could potentially ask a colleague to not intervene for you\u2026 I don\u2019t know how I can put this. They can advocate for you in very subtle ways. What I mean by that is, let\u2019s say there\u2019s a con call and everybody needs to be on video. By the way, I don\u2019t go on video typically for my company con calls. I\u2019m very like, \u201cNo, you don\u2019t need to see my face,\u201d because I built over time a level of self-confidence and self-awareness that I\u2019m not afraid that I\u2019m going to be fired if I advocate for myself.
That\u2019s the muscle that I\u2019m encouraging you to build is learn how to advocate for yourself even if you\u2019re introverted. There are ways to do this. I\u2019m not an expert in it by any means. It\u2019s also a process over time where you\u2019re just like, \u201cYou know what? The worst that can happen is I lose this job. I know I\u2019m skilled enough to find another one.\u201d That\u2019s where I am at this point in my career that I\u2019m very confident in my skills and my ability and my value. I know my worth. I know my worth. Now it\u2019s just finding your way of communicating your worth and your belief in your ability to do your job so that your boss really doesn\u2019t pressure you into doing or communicating in ways that you don\u2019t want to communicate.<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s switch gears a little bit and talk about setbacks because it is really nice to think that your employment is always going to be unicorns and rainbows, but there are problems that sometimes come up. You make a mistake, a project doesn\u2019t get out on time. Sometimes the project doesn\u2019t get out on time due to no fault of your own, but it\u2019s still your project so it doesn\u2019t go according to plan. How do we get back on track after a setback?<\/p>\n
The first thing that is crucial, you need to accept responsibility for it. You need to demonstrate that the blame game doesn\u2019t work here. So if you are responsible for an outcome, you need to take responsibility for that said outcome. You cannot hide behind other people. You cannot throw people under the bus. That\u2019s not going to lengthen your career. It really will shorten it, in fact. So first and foremost, you just need to be honest. Explain why it went wrong, explain the factors that caused it to go wrong, and really come up with some solutions, plan A, B, and C, not just one option. You have potential options how to be able to rectify or at least limit the damage or the consequences of what happened because sometimes we can\u2019t fix it to fruition. Some projects just\u2026 You know what I mean? It doesn\u2019t end well.
In those cases, you really just have to say, \u201cOkay, well, I identified why and how and when it went off the rails, so for future, I am logging it so that I recognize that if we are even close to being in that position in a future effort, I know how to roll it back. I know how to divert, and I know how to deal with it.\u201d So there\u2019s lessons learned, we call them in our world. That\u2019s really it is you\u2019ve got to acknowledge it. You have to state the reasons why. Then you\u2019ve got to be able to present solutions or how would you do it differently in a future project.<\/p>\n
What do we do if you state your case, \u201cI have earned this raise because of XYZ. Here\u2019s all of my proof. Here\u2019s all of these things that we\u2019ve done right,\u201d and your boss says, \u201cNo, we can\u2019t give you a raise at this time. The company doesn\u2019t have any money. I don\u2019t agree with your assessment\u201d? Whatever the reason is when your boss says no to your raise request, what do you do?<\/p>\n
Before you go into the raise, you have to understand that there are two outcomes potentially. There is the, \u201cYes, okay. Yeah, we agree with you.\u201d There are actually three outcomes. There is the, \u201cYes but we don\u2019t have as much money so here\u2019s what I\u2019m going to offer.\u201d There\u2019s the worst-case scenario that you outlined that says, \u201cYou know what? No.\u201d But before you go into that meeting, you need to be prepared to essentially say, \u201cAm I willing to walk away from this job if I don\u2019t get this raise?\u201d Before you even open that door, what\u2019s the worst-case scenario? Are you willing to accept it that you would be willing over this issue even if your job is amazing, you love your colleagues, you love the work that you do, all the good stuff? But if that money request is denied, are you willing to give that up?
Then secondly, depending on the type of boss that you have, they may be thinking, \u201cWell, they\u2019re a potential flight risk because they\u2019re asking for money, and if they\u2019re told no, well, then they\u2019re going to quit.\u201d You have to also understand it\u2019s how you communicate that request with money. That will determine how they will view you even if you\u2019re told no. So you can still be told no and both parties leave with the same respect that you guys entered into the conversation with. So it\u2019s really important how you approach that conversation. Like I said before, are you willing to stay with the current terms if you love your job or if you appreciate your job, or b) is the issue of money so important\u2026? Like, you\u2019re seriously underpaid, and they\u2019re not willing to budge, are you prepared to look for something better that will pay you your worth? That I cannot answer. Only you can determine that answer for yourself, but you have to understand that that is a conclusion.<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s talk about that for a minute. I want to go in and ask for a raise and my boss is going to say no. How can I ask so that I am preserving my relationship with the company? Honestly, I\u2019ve got to take care of my own self first, and if I need income, I don\u2019t want them to think that I\u2019m a flight risk until I have found something else. How can I ask for a raise in a way that says both, \u201cI\u2019m really serious, I want this, but I\u2019m not going to leave if you don\u2019t give it to me\u201d?<\/p>\n
I think actually you start with that: You are not interested in leaving the company. You\u2019re really, really happy with the work that you\u2019re doing. You feel that it\u2019s fulfilling to you. You feel that you\u2019re a valuable contributor to this organization. That\u2019s the bridge is that you\u2019re a valuable contributor to this organization, and here is metrically why my value. I\u2019m actually now demonstrating my value from a dollar\/cent goals, objectives, perspective. But you always lead off the conversation is that you are genuinely happy with working at XYZ, working for you. Also, highlight the boss\u2019s qualities as well, that, \u201cYou\u2019re a manager that really helps my career to grow. You help me with opportunities.\u201d Make them part of your success. You\u2019ve got to get their buy-in. That\u2019s what this is. This conversation is a buy-in. They need to buy in to you as a person.
So that\u2019s my suggestion is how you would lead that conversation off is that you\u2019re happy. You\u2019re genuinely happy with your job. You\u2019re happy with them as a manager. Also, I would suggest, ask them of their opinion of you. I know it\u2019s scary. I know it\u2019s scary, but feedback is really important. We\u2019re not perfect. No one is perfect. We can all improve, and show them that you want to improve in the process. So with all these things, I think if you really position yourself as pro-them, not anti-them\u2026 But at the end of the day, you have the right to ask for more money. They know this. They know this. This is why they have HR. They know that employees are going to do this every year. It\u2019s not surprising to them. I want you to become comfortable with the idea that you going into ask this, they\u2019re expecting it.<\/p>\n
Ooh, I like that. It isn\u2019t surprising. Rates go up. We\u2019re in inflationary periods right now. There\u2019s a cost of living increase. There\u2019s a cost of goods and services are going up. Girl Scout cookies went up this year.<\/p>\n
Hello? Yes.<\/p>\n
Everything is going up this year.<\/p>\n
[crosstalk 00:30:05]. Actually, I want to add\u2026 Let\u2019s say, an example, they love the work that you\u2019re doing. They acknowledge that you\u2019re contributing. They acknowledge the results because many acknowledge. They see for a fact that you are producing. But for whatever reason, they say that, \u201cNo, unfortunately we don\u2019t have the purse strings for that,\u201d you can negotiate in other ways. Well, can you get an extra week vacation? Can your bonus be increased? Because they tend to give more money on bonuses because it\u2019s not guaranteed every year.
But still, if you were to say, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m typically allowed up to a 15% a year bonus,\u201d would they be willing to give you extra on that? Because it\u2019s still money for you. Technically, this year you got, let\u2019s say, $3,000 more than you would have because they put it on the bonus side or you got an extra week of vacation. Do people understand a week of vacation, what that calculation is? That\u2019s a nice piece of change, and that\u2019s rest for you. Or, for example, can they, kick in more money to\u2026? Let\u2019s say, if you\u2019re a smaller company, potentially they can kick in more money to a HSA or a 401(k). There\u2019s a lot of ways around this, so don\u2019t think that the door is shut to straight cash. So you also have to think about how else would you potentially be willing to be remunerated.<\/p>\n
Ooh, that\u2019s a really good point. I would love more vacation time, hey, Scott. We actually just went this year\u2026 I\u2019m super excited. We went to unlimited vacation so as long as you\u2019re getting your work done. Maybe I\u2019ll just be unlimited vacationing to Fiji when it\u2019s freezing cold outside. That\u2019s great. More vacation, more bonus, more 401(k), more HSA.
Let\u2019s say that there\u2019s none of that available. When is it a reasonable amount of time to check back in with your boss? Let\u2019s say that you love your job. I think that there\u2019s a lot to be said for finding a company that you like to work at. I\u2019ve worked for Satan himself, and it\u2019s no fun. You get up in the morning, and you\u2019re like, \u201cUgh, I have to go to work.\u201d You drag your feet. You don\u2019t want to get out of bed. It is just soul-sucking. Then I\u2019ve worked for companies where, my husband is a stay-at-home dad now, I\u2019m walking out the door, the girls are fighting, and I feel guilty because I\u2019m going off to work and I\u2019m going to have a good time.
So the difference is night and day, and it\u2019s this huge weight that\u2019s lifted off my shoulders. If I was working at this, and I am working at this job that I love so much, if they said, \u201cNo, we don\u2019t have money to give you for a raise,\u201d I wouldn\u2019t automatically think, \u201cWell, I\u2019m leaving,\u201d because in my decades of working I know that there\u2019s a lot of value in working for a company that you love. When is a good time to check back in? Should you ask your boss about this, or should you just throw it at them, \u201cHey, okay, we don\u2019t have any money now. I\u2019m going to check back in six months or three months or tomorrow? Is there a rule of thumb to checking back in for more money?<\/p>\n
Yeah, there typically is a process. That\u2019s usually agreed upon during that initial discussion, that initial ask, so you can ask, \u201cWell, what would be a good time to check in back?\u201d if they even mention, \u201cWe\u2019d love to do this for you, but now\u2019s not the best time. Our company\u2019s just going through some difficult times,\u201d or whatever that case may be. You could suggest whether it\u2019s six or eight months, but give enough time a) let\u2019s say if it\u2019s a real deal where it\u2019s a cash crunch, to allow them to work through that, and b) you collect more proof. You collect more ammunition. This works for you in a couple of ways.
Typically six months, eight months is a good period to check back in. Also, for bigger companies, they typically have a schedule, so you need to learn what their review schedule is and their calendar is because they literally have cut-off dates that decisions are made because it goes to committees to approve budgets. So you need to learn what that schedule is for your company. So you\u2019re actually asking for that review in the cycle so that you can actually collect on it so you don\u2019t miss the window. You need to know what that window is. So whatever that window is for your company, play within the window.<\/p>\n
I like that a lot. I\u2019m trying to think, as you\u2019re talking, \u201cOh, yeah. That\u2019s August.\u201d And it\u2019s known, so ask your business, ask your HR department. Now let\u2019s go to the nuclear option. Despite all of your best efforts, there is no money available, that maybe the company\u2019s not doing well, maybe other things are happening. Are there any warning signs that you need to leave no matter how great the company is?<\/p>\n
Well, if they\u2019re a public company and they\u2019re traded, you should be watching their stocks to be honest. So that\u2019s kind of left field. Most people are like, [crosstalk 00:35:31].<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a great tip.<\/p>\n
So you should be watching their stock. You should be following the company\u2019s results. Every company that\u2019s traded on the stock exchange has quarterly earnings, and that basically tells the state of the company\u2019s finances. They are published. They are public information. You can find it either within the company or outside, but either way you should be seeing if you are working for what other people, investors and shareholders, view as a healthy company. When you start to see that the company\u2019s lagging, their earnings are off, they\u2019re missing their earnings completely, like zoom, it just went south, you know what I mean, that\u2019s an huge indication actually that you may need to look for another option. So that\u2019s my first tip and biggest tip I would say.
The other thing is, how many people are quitting? How many people are being hired versus leaving? So see how your department or how your core team is shifting. Are people leaving? Where are they leaving to, if they\u2019re talking about it? If people are leaving but they\u2019re not hiring to fill that role anymore, they\u2019re starting to share the responsibilities across people, these are signs. These are warning signs that you need to pick up on.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s really powerful. Don\u2019t get caught being the last employee there to close up the company and then get your $1.50 severance.<\/p>\n
Literally. I got you another tip I thought of because I lived it. I\u2019ve never really been fired from big girl jobs. I have lived through two corporate downsizings, and they\u2019re traumatic. The typical rule of thumb is the longer you are there in terms of years worked, the higher chance you have to be let go. If you know that you\u2019ve been at a company for, say, 10, 15 years and they\u2019re looking to do massive cutbacks, you need to be very careful. So you need to start considering, should I negotiate for severance? Should I potentially take the money if you can find another job within your field? There\u2019s a lot of things that wrap into this, but I want people to think that that is a potential possibility that you might be on the chopping block faster than someone who got hired only six months ago or two years ago because they cost less. You cost more typically.<\/p>\n
That is a really good point because when they do a buy-out, it\u2019s usually based on how many years you\u2019ve been there, so you get a month for every year you\u2019ve been there. Well, here\u2019s two months versus 10. If you\u2019ve been there for two years, you probably know the processes and understand enough that you can help them maneuver through [crosstalk 00:38:46].<\/p>\n
Like I said, they\u2019ll keep you around because you\u2019ve got the knowledge. Until you\u2019ve passed that knowledge on to somebody else, you\u2019re still golden to them, but as soon as that knowledge transfer occurs, you\u2019re at risk.<\/p>\n
Okay, that\u2019s sparks a couple of questions. We\u2019ve heard the advice that in order to get a big raise, you need to leave your job and go to another company. We\u2019ve seen that in several of our guests, A Purple Life and Financial Mechanic, kind of job hopped. You and I are the same age. It was definitely taboo for us to job hop when we were younger, but now it seems like it\u2019s no big deal to just spend a year at a job and then move on and move on and up in the pay scale. Does it look bad to your current company that you went out and sought another job even though you weren\u2019t planning on leaving? Are they thinking to themselves, \u201cOh, Kassandra\u2019s going to leave, so we will give her the raise so that she\u2019ll stay until we can find somebody to replace her\u201d? Or do they think to themselves, \u201cWow, Kassandra went out and figured out what her worth is, so we\u2019re going to reward her by giving her so much money\u201d? That doesn\u2019t really seem on-brand for the companies.<\/p>\n
Gosh, I think it really depends on your skill set. It depends where you\u2019re working. Like, if you\u2019re working for Apple or Microsoft or Google, you know what I mean, they\u2019re desperate to keep high-knowledge talent. So this is very subjective. For, let\u2019s say, people who are doing administrative work or people who are doing clerical work, for example, in the minds of many companies it\u2019s almost sad to say, but they\u2019re a dime a dozen, meaning that you\u2019re easily replaceable. So they don\u2019t value you as much as they should. That\u2019s where you need to be careful in terms of what role that you\u2019re currently in. How much knowledge do you have at the company? For example, you mentioned, we\u2019re in the same generation. I was one of those exceptions that did leapfrog before it was-<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
\u2026 en vogue because I understood that\u2026 Really, the ultimate bargaining tool is when somebody wants you. When you\u2019re at that hiring process and they want you, that\u2019s when they\u2019re most willing to give you the most. Really and truly, that\u2019s just the reality of how it works. So it is much harder when you are already installed in your job. You\u2019ve been there for a couple years. If you haven\u2019t been advocating for yourself and you suddenly find Jesus in the process and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh my gosh, yeah, I\u2019ve been underpaid. I need to fix this right away,\u201d they\u2019ve been like, \u201cOh, oh, okay. She\u2019s now aware. How do we handle her or him?\u201d It really depends how you\u2019re coming in, what role are you working in, what company do you work for, what relationship do you have with your bosses. Again, I come back to that. If you haven\u2019t established a positive relationship from the get and you haven\u2019t maintained it, that\u2019s your job. That\u2019s part of your job. It\u2019s not only your job to do the work. It\u2019s your job to make your bosses think you\u2019re a superstar because you are.<\/p>\n
Oh, I love that. I love that. I\u2019m going to mark that as a quote. We\u2019re going to have that up. It is your job to make sure your boss knows that you are the superstar that you are. How frequently should somebody update their resume? I know people who have never\u2026 As soon as they get their job, they just put it to the side. I look at that girl in the mirror every day, although I\u2019m not looking for a new job, I don\u2019t want a new job, but how frequently should you update your resume? Because it\u2019s kind of hard to remember all the things that you\u2019ve done.<\/p>\n
Well, if you\u2019re keeping a log of what you\u2019re doing, it\u2019s not hard at all. It comes back to that folder. So that folder serves multiple purposes. That folder is not only to help you navigate your present career and to demonstrate your value to your company in the hopes of being rewarded financially. It\u2019s also to help you to position into a new job should you need to do this very quickly. LinkedIn is a great tool, and I don\u2019t think enough people use it the way it is laid out properly. I think your resume updates should be happening in concert with your updates to your folder. You can set yourself a time, let\u2019s say, every three months. You have a meeting with yourself. You look at your folder, and you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, well, what projects have I working on or that I\u2019ve completed that they challenged me? They provided me an opportunity to learn a new skill set, new software, new systems, new programs, new processes. Whatever these newness is that can translate in potential raises, whether inside or outside the company, that\u2019s when you need to update your resume in tandem.<\/p>\n
My final question, how long should your resume be? I ask this because I see a lot of resumes. I\u2019ve seen some 25-year-old applicants who have a three-page resume, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh, no. You\u2019re supposed to do that now? No.\u201d I mean mine\u2019s not even three pages and I\u2019m not 25.<\/p>\n
No, no. Max is two, and two is big max I would say. If you\u2019re able to consolidate everything into a one-pager\u2026 Obviously, it depends on age. The older you are, you have typically more work experience but that depends. If you\u2019ve been at the same company for three years or for 30 years, I should say, you can actually format it to one page where you just separate the roles that you had or what you\u2019ve working on. Ideally, I think the rule is that HR typically looks a resume for less than 10 seconds and chucks it. If they don\u2019t see what\u2026 The other part is a lot systems are automated, so they\u2019re looking for key words in your resume. So if they\u2019re not finding key words that align to the job posting, that gets chucked. So you need to [crosstalk 00:45:05]. I don\u2019t know if you knew that.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s been a while since I applied for job really. I only applied for this job. Before that, it was a really long time.<\/p>\n
A lot of companies are using that automatic, automated screening process, and it\u2019s based on key words. It\u2019s no different than websites. If they don\u2019t see a certain number of key words, let\u2019s say five out of 10 key words that they have identified in the job postings that is important or crucial to finding the ideal candidate and it\u2019s not on your resume, this is why your resume can\u2019t be cookie-cutter for each job that you apply to.<\/p>\n
Oh, say that again for the people in the back. Your resume cannot be cookie-cutter. Say it again.<\/p>\n
You cannot be submitting the same resume with the exact same description of your job to 10 different postings because, again, it comes back to those key words. Also, the job descriptions may not be\u2026 They\u2019re not unique necessarily. They\u2019re not exactly unique. So you need to cater to them. Again, do you want this job or not? It\u2019s work.<\/p>\n
It is work. Yes, it is work to find a job. I was laid off once. I completely deserved it. I was a terrible employee. I\u2019m much better now. It was horrible. I was married at the time, I\u2019m still married, but I was married at the time, which made it a lot easier to regroup over the weekend, and then Monday I was at the unemployment office. It\u2019s been a long time.<\/p>\n
Well, we\u2019re dating ourselves because I remember the unemployment office, too, because I did get fired when I was 17. I\u2019ll admit that. I was a bad employee.<\/p>\n
I was at the unemployment office, and then I grabbed the newspaper and started looking for jobs in the newspaper because that\u2019s how you found a job in 2002, I think it was, maybe 2003. Either way, that\u2019s how you did, and Monster.com was just happening.<\/p>\n
That was it.<\/p>\n
LinkedIn didn\u2019t exist. I would circle everything. Then I applied to absolutely everything. I wanted them to tell me no because nobody was calling me up saying, \u201cHey, Mindy, are you looking for a job?\u201d That might happen now, but back then nobody was reaching out.<\/p>\n
No, the age of recruiters was not happening then. It\u2019s a completely different world when it comes to job hunting now. Honestly, for me, I find it so much easier, but I think a lot of people are lackadaisical in terms of they approach finding a job even today. Recruiters will not knock on your email or call you unless they have seen something publicly about you that interests them. That\u2019s just how it works. So you have to make yourself an interesting candidate. There\u2019s a process. You need to put work into this. You need to stand out because there\u2019s millions of other people that want\u2026 [crosstalk 00:48:11] they want the same job.<\/p>\n
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.<\/p>\n
How do you stand out?<\/p>\n
Anybody who\u2019s had one applicant for the job that they were advertising for.<\/p>\n
Exactly. If it\u2019s one applicant, you should question whether you want that job or you want to work there.<\/p>\n
Exactly, exactly. Oh my goodness, Kassandra, this was super fun. Is there anything else that you want to share that I forgot to ask or that you think people who want to prove their worth or want to go on and look for a new job need to know?<\/p>\n
I think we\u2019ve covered so much. I would just encourage people to put yourself out there. Before you put yourself out there to ask yourself, what\u2019s the worst-case scenario? Can you live with that worst-case scenario that they tell you no? Nine times out of 10, yes, you can accept that no. But don\u2019t be afraid to put in the work in order to justify why you deserve more. So it\u2019s not an automatic. It\u2019s not a guarantee. But I think it helps you to grow as a person to be open to that conversation, exchanging that information and seeing, \u201cYes, I know I deserve it. Here\u2019s why. But I\u2019m open to feedback, too.\u201d I think that\u2019s part of the conversation that people don\u2019t typically go into that with is open yourself up to their perception of you as well because you might be working and thinking that you\u2019re doing great, and their perception of you is not the same. It may be for a reason that\u2026 miscommunication. This is an opportunity to correct it before things get worse.<\/p>\n
Yes, yes! If you want a raise in six months, you need to know now that you\u2019re on the right path.<\/p>\n
Exactly.<\/p>\n
Kassandra, I love you. You\u2019re the best.<\/p>\n
Thanks so much.<\/p>\n
This was super fun. Kassandra, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you.<\/p>\n
Oh, it\u2019s my pleasure. Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n
From Episode 287 of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, she is Kassandra Dasent and I am Mindy Jensen saying so long and toodle-loo.<\/p>\n