{"id":2483,"date":"2022-04-28T19:35:57","date_gmt":"2022-04-28T19:35:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/?p=2483"},"modified":"2022-04-28T19:35:57","modified_gmt":"2022-04-28T19:35:57","slug":"why-the-right-way-to-buy-rentals-is-wrong","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/2022\/04\/28\/why-the-right-way-to-buy-rentals-is-wrong\/","title":{"rendered":"Why The \u201cRight Way\u201d to Buy Rentals is Wrong"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

If you want to invest in real estate<\/strong><\/a>, you\u2019re probably taking a safe, slow approach to building a rental property portfolio. As a real estate rookie, people tell you that the safest way to invest is to get good at one thing while keeping a distance from doing deals outside your comfort zone<\/strong>. While this type of advice isn\u2019t wrong for everyone, it may miss the mark for some.<\/p>\n

Investors like Marjorie Patton<\/strong><\/a> have found ways to dramatically diversify themselves<\/strong> in the world of real estate, without their losing shirts. Marjorie is the head of sales for a financial technology firm<\/strong> by day and a real estate investor<\/strong>, house hacker<\/strong>, flipper<\/strong>, and private money lender <\/strong>by night. With some rather unexpected <\/strong>renovation costs<\/strong><\/a> on her first property (and with no safety reserve), Marjorie was forced to learn real estate investing on the fly.<\/p>\n

Fast forward to today, Marjorie has a seven-door portfolio in the expensive Denver, Colorado area<\/strong>. She\u2019s grown quickly and has seen healthy profits, but has no need to quit her W2. Instead, she\u2019s going to creatively parlay any deal that comes across her desk<\/strong> so she can build wealth while continuing to work somewhere she loves.<\/p>\n

\n

David:
This is the BiggerPockets podcast show 602.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Don\u2019t second guess yourself in terms of the things that you know. You know a lot more than you think you do, and you don\u2019t necessarily need to have gotten one deal under contract or anything like that. You are smart people, people out there that try and read and listen and take the advice of other people who are smart and read. I think that it\u2019s endless in terms of what you can do. I shouldn\u2019t say with very little knowledge, but if you feel like you can pick apart those parts of your experience where you can apply them to different deals.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s going on, everyone? My name is David Greene, and I\u2019m the host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate podcast. If this is your first time listening, this is where you go if you want to build wealth through real estate and you want to make less mistakes, make faster progress, and do it in a smarter way. We help you to find financial freedom through real estate by interviewing different guests that have done it themselves, as well as industry experts who give specific knowledge on elements of real estate investing that will help make you money.<\/p>\n

David:
We\u2019re basically real estate nerds. BiggerPockets is a company that is committed to helping others just like you build both through real estate. You can also visit our website where you can look at forums, where tons of questions are asked and answered. Ask your own question, get an answer there. Check out our incredible blog or go to biggerpockets.com\/store, where there are lots of books written on different topics of real estate, several of them written by yours truly.<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m joined today by my co-host, Mr. Rob Abasolo, where we have an amazing show interviewing Marj Patton, who does a really good job of sharing how she invests in a hot market like Denver but does it with all kinds of different deals, flips, multi-family, single-family, short-term rentals, long-term rentals. She really looks at every deal individually and decides what she\u2019s going to do with it. I think you\u2019re going to love today\u2019s show. Rob, what are some of your favorite parts?<\/p>\n

Rob:
I like this one a lot, man. We had a bit of a sidebar. I didn\u2019t intend for it to be, but then we got into the sidebar of quitting your job if you have a W-2, a full-time job, and you\u2019re looking to become a full-time real estate investor. When is that a right decision? I think all three of us brought pretty different viewpoints, but we were all on the same page because at the end of the day when it comes to quitting your job, there\u2019s no right or wrong. There\u2019s just what\u2019s right for you.<\/p>\n

Rob:
We also talked a lot about being scared to take on new projects, just jumping into these deals and pulling from past experiences to guide your strategy, to help you be successful from a deal. So even though you haven\u2019t necessarily tackled a niche or an asset class, we still have experience and we\u2019re smarter than we think we are. A little compliment to you, I really liked your take on art versus science in this episode.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So you\u2019re going to have to listen to this one in order to hear that, and additionally, we had a little bit of fun. Now, we\u2019re trying to keep the shows a little bit shorter in length. So we actually took out some editing and threw it on the very end of the show. So make sure you listen all the way to the end and then keep listening for our insight onto some non-real estate related topics.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Today\u2019s quick tip is if you like following what\u2019s going on in the news, you like a deeper analysis into specific questions regarding real estate like what\u2019s happening with interest rates, what the supply is doing, how our relationship with China is affecting the market here, check out the new BiggerPockets Podcast On The Market. On The Market was a spinoff from the bigger news show that we do here on the Real Estate Podcast, and it\u2019s sponsored by Fundrise, where Dave Meyer and several other BiggerPockets personalities break down what is happening in the market and on the market. So if you\u2019re looking for a show to listen to in-between releases from this one, go check that one out and let us know what you think.<\/p>\n

David:
Last thing I want to say before we get to the show is leave us a comment on YouTube. As you\u2019re watching this show, tell us what you liked, what you didn\u2019t like, what you thought was funny, what you thought was boring, and how you would like things to be different. We read those and we do our very best to incorporate that into the way the show is produced.<\/p>\n

David:
Marj, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I\u2019m doing well. Thank you.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So we\u2019ve had a lot of fun before we actually hit the record button here. I think our guests are in for a really cool show. Can you give us a brief background of what your portfolio looks like now? Then after that, tell us a little about yourself.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. So we, we as in my partner and I, primarily invest in Denver, Colorado. We have have about seven doors. So certainly not, not little, but certainly not a lot, a lot of work to do. We do a combination, and I think that\u2019s a lot about what I\u2019d want to talk about today, too, which is we invest in a little bit of everything. I like to think it\u2019s a mile wide and an inch deep. An inch seems too small, but yeah, short-term, long-term. We do flips. We\u2019ve done private lending. We\u2019ve done 10301. We\u2019ve done out of state. So we\u2019ve tried it all. It\u2019s a little bit of a mixed bag for us and we really enjoy it.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Then a little bit about me, so I am ahead of sales for a global financial technology firm. I\u2019ve been in financial technology for decades. It feels like, but a very long time and I\u2019ve enjoyed it. I really enjoy the sales aspect of it all in terms of getting to know clients and negotiation gets me excited. It hypes me up. I do love to negotiate, which is why real estate actually is a really good fit for me, but I also come from a background of parents who have dabbled in real estate as well. My mother and her grandfather, actually, as an immigrant, came through, started doing private mortgages, which she did a little bit of herself as well. Then my dad is pretty bullish and really enjoys triple net.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We have spirited conversations about residential versus commercial. We don\u2019t really agree for different reasons, but the conversation is always my favorite. Then, yeah, I don\u2019t know if I mentioned this, but I\u2019m actually right outside of Denver, Colorado. So I\u2019ve been able to go into the BiggerPockets headquarters in Denver and I also-<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019ve been to the Mecca.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I\u2019ve made pilgrimage to the Mecca. That\u2019s right. Yes.<\/p>\n

David:
That explains that glow coming off of you right now.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Exactly. It\u2019s also my podcast light, but I\u2019ll take that, too, but yeah. So I\u2019ve gotten to meet all the awesome people at BiggerPockets, and hopefully I\u2019ll get to the point where I can tell you guys a little bit about, too, the women\u2019s investor group that we started, which is why we started working with BiggerPockets a lot.<\/p>\n

David:
So I 100% want to make sure we talk about the triple net versus residential debate. I own both, and I\u2019ve had. since I bought my first triple net property, a different perspective regarding when those properties make more sense, what type of person they make more sense for.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
My dad is exactly that person you\u2019re talking about. He\u2019s perfect for triple net.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, and that\u2019s one of the things I wanted to highlight is out of this conversation, one of the things that I would like for the audience to receive from it would just be an understanding that there isn\u2019t a right or wrong way to do it, but there is a right or wrong way for you to do it, and understanding the strengths and weaknesses, pros and cons, what type of strategy works for a property is a huge part of finding success financially. I like analogies, and basketball is one that I go to a lot because I played a lot of basketball. There are definitely teams where a specific player will thrive and look really good and other teams where they won\u2019t, right? Your portfolio is like your team. So you\u2019re trying to create it with synergistic qualities that work around the strengths and weaknesses of your coaching staff and the other properties that you have.<\/p>\n

David:
So I want to get into that, but before I do, I just wanted to highlight one of the things that I really like about your story and my understanding of your investing career is you are the type who looks at every deal that comes your way, picks it up, looks at it from every single angle and says, \u201cHow could I use this?\u201d versus \u201cNope, doesn\u2019t work,\u201d throw it off to the side and move on to the next thing. There\u2019s a level of creativity, ingenuity, and maybe even vision. I\u2019m romanticizing this, but I think you know what I\u2019m saying, right?<\/p>\n

David:
A lot of the time we teach new people, \u201cNope. Just look for a duplex,\u201d we try to simplify it as much as possible. I do think for the very beginning investor, they can be overwhelmed by all of the different options, but once you start to get the fundamentals down, you can start to broaden your horizon and look at what opportunity comes your way, and that\u2019s how I do mine like deals cross my desk and I think, \u201cWould I want to buy it? If so, what would I do with it? If not, would it work for someone else? If not, could I list it?\u201d There\u2019s all these different ways that we can help somebody and then help ourselves, and the best investors take advantage of the opportunity that comes to them, which isn\u2019t always going to fit in the same niche.<\/p>\n

David:
So I wanted to ask you. How did you get to that point where you took this approach of looking at all of these different opportunities and deciding how to use them versus just the whole pick it up, look at it, \u201cDoesn\u2019t match what I want,\u201d throw it away and repeat that 700 times?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. Great question. I tend to feel like if you can use a lot of your experience, not only even if you have a W-2 job or something that you\u2019re passionate about or did before you started to pick up real estate investing, but I feel like patterns are created, right? Patterns compound, right? So for instance, in my job right now, I negotiate contracts. I\u2019m not a lawyer, but I negotiate alongside the lawyers at my company. So I negotiate contracts. That makes it really easy for me, for instance, to feel comfortable with maybe a long-term rental, understanding who the person is doing the background checks, even though we don\u2019t do that with clients, but understanding what goes into a contract and making sure that I understand all of those pieces, and maybe that makes me a better person to be able to analyze a tenant and things like that.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Also in my job, I negotiate, which I mentioned. I love the negotiation, right? From an early age, I loved negotiating. I love the buy and sell, and with that, that has allowed me to figure out what\u2019s meaningful to people, right? When I am interested in a deal, I want to buy a house, I want to buy some sort of property, I really try figure out what\u2019s attractive to that person. I\u2019m happy to get into a little bit more actually with a deal that we just did recently, right? I think that really shined through in terms of how we tried to negotiate that because as some of you know, maybe a lot out there who invest in Denver, it is a terribly difficult market right now. It\u2019s crazy, but I like to take a lot of the things that have influenced me that I\u2019ve learned, not only through my job, but just through life in general.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Then the other thing I said was compounding those experiences, right? So taking those and trying them, but then learning from those experiences, right? We did a rehab on a long-term rental and an opportunity for a flip came up. Well, we already did rehab. We set a budget. We found a team. We knew how many months we had to do it. We knew the type of rehab and updates we were looking for. We knew how much rent we were going to get for it. So we took that lesson and applied it to the flip. So I think that\u2019s the example I\u2019m giving is that you can really take these concepts. You don\u2019t have to take them from real estate. There\u2019s so many concepts that you understand inherently as a human being and a smart person that you can bring into these. Then once you start doing those, you\u2019ll notice patterns of types of investing that you\u2019re doing that you can kind of parlay into other types of investing.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We did a private loan not too long ago. Everyone\u2019s familiar with the process of underwriting unless you pay cash, and good for you. If you wouldn\u2019t pay cash for anything, ever everything, awesome for you, but we need loans. So we\u2019ve gotten many loans before and we know all the types of collateral that we need to deliver to an underwriter to satisfy their terms and things like that, right?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So can you take that applied knowledge and then parlay that into a private loan, which we did recently, which was really successful, and it actually was twofold where we earned a little bit of money and we were able to get someone into a duplex that they want and pay cash. She\u2019s a friend of mine, too, so that made it that much sweeter, but yeah. I would say that, in general, don\u2019t second guess yourself in terms of the things that you know. You know a lot more than you think you do and you don\u2019t necessarily need to have gotten one deal under contract or anything like that. You are smart people, people out there that try and read and listen and take the advice of other people who are smart and read. I think that it\u2019s endless in terms of what you can do. I shouldn\u2019t say with very little knowledge, but if you feel like you can pick apart those parts of your experience where you can apply them to different deals.<\/p>\n

David:
So this is one of the reasons I try to break the mindset of what is the right way to do it like. How do I want to describe that? It\u2019s like the engineer mindset needs a blueprint to operate off of. If they don\u2019t have a full set of complete blueprints, they don\u2019t know how to start building, and that makes sense in certain things in life. Maybe once you\u2019ve acquired a property, there could be a right way to manage that apartment complex, but to get the property or to structure the deal is much more art than science. What I really like about what you\u2019re saying is every one of us has experiences we can draw from from other things we\u2019ve done in life, skills we\u2019ve built from other things we\u2019ve done in life, and real estate is not 100% independent of that.<\/p>\n

David:
The things that we are good at from other parts of life will work within real estate investing, and you have to give yourself freedom to believe in yourself. That\u2019s what I hear you saying is don\u2019t assume you don\u2019t know anything. There are some things that you know how to do. The art part of real estate is what makes it fun because it\u2019s not an algorithm that you just follow mindlessly, right? I think the people that look at it that way are trying to remove a risk. They\u2019re trying to remove failure. They\u2019re trying to remove personal responsibility for how you put the thing together, and they find comfort in this understanding that there\u2019s a right way to do it, but there\u2019s not. There\u2019s a right result you can get. There\u2019s laws that have to be followed. There are principles and guidelines that we follow because we finally make it easier, but what I wanted to get out of you is what other experiences did you have in life that you applied to your real estate investing that helped you get seven units in the Denver area, which is a very difficult market to be investing in that others might not realize they could be doing too?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. Here\u2019s just an anecdotal story of how I started as someone who really enjoyed entrepreneurial, had an entrepreneurial spirit, had a very much passion for the buy and sell. It just always fascinated me. In the 2000 election, which I\u2019m probably giving up my age a little bit here, but it was just before I could vote, and in Palm Beach County, which is obviously in Florida, they had this snafu where they did these things called butterfly ballots. It was really tricky for people to understand. So there\u2019s a lot of people that voted for I think it was Pat Buchanan who was I think the libertarian. I forget who it was on the sheet. So they misvoted, and that is a piece of voter history.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So somehow I had read something, that was the internet was all the rage, and I had read something where you could actually sell on eBay your sample ballots, right? Everyone gets a sample ballot before they actually go to the polls. So I asked my mother and father. I said, \u201cCan I have both of your \u2026\u201d They both got one. So I said, \u201cCan I have both of your sample ballots?\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
They said, \u201cSure, what do you want them for?\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I was like, \u201cDon\u2019t worry about that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I put them on eBay and I got $40 for one and $50 for another. My mom was like, \u201cThat\u2019s awesome. High five.\u201d My dad charged me a little bit of interest on that. He wanted his cut of it. He wanted to teach me about taxes and things like that, but that\u2019s the start that I had in terms of really just having the courage to just try things, right? Just get in there and try it. I was hooked after that, right? Some of I feel like what I\u2019ve been able to do and with my partner as well is really get excited about deals, right?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Do the research. Get into those, and I will say there is a little bit of mitigation on my end because I still do have my W-2 job, right? That is very important to me. I feel like I can take on more risk and try those things, things that I don\u2019t know about and things that I have a little bit of research, but I haven\u2019t tried it yet. I keep that job because of that, and not only that, but I like the diversification. So I really try to figure out a way that I can use all of my themes that I have learned, even that example of just buying and selling, where it\u2019s like you didn\u2019t even think about that, but all of a sudden you hear something or you see something or someone tells you something, and then you want to go a little bit deeper into that and you want to do that research and gain that knowledge.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
You don\u2019t have to \u2026 People say analysis-paralysis so much, and granted, people should do analysis, but I think it\u2019s so much more of trust in yourself, get those initial concepts together and then go for it. Take that experience that you had in the past. Take those things that you\u2019ve learned, and it certainly helps because I look on the MLS pretty much all day every day. It\u2019s my favorite website, even though I have favorites in terms of mobile apps, but I\u2019m constantly looking at things. Anything that crosses my desk, it\u2019s not a know. It\u2019s really just a understanding of, \u201cWhat does that look like? What would that look like to us? What would that look like to me? How does that mirror a deal that I\u2019ve done in the past? Is it something that I\u2019m knowledgeable for or I\u2019m knowledgeable on?\u201d and then trying to figure out, \u201cHow am I going to use all of my different strategies and all of my knowledge to go after that so that it\u2019s the right deal for me?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
So let\u2019s hop into that a little bit because you talk about jumping into something that might scare you. I feel like at the very beginning of your real estate journey, every deal should scare you. For the first four or five years, everything should scare you because everything should still be pretty new. So can you give us an example of what kind of deals you jumped from and what was your confidence level going into them? Let\u2019s start with your very first one. Maybe just walk us through how the progression of your portfolio evolved in the first three or four properties.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah, I would love to. So I feel like I don\u2019t know how many people have gone into it this way, but we went into it very much like, \u201cHere is the price of the home. Here is our loan. Here\u2019s what PITI looks like on a monthly basis. Here\u2019s what I can get in rent. Awesome. We are killing it. We are going to make money. This is just the start of our empire.\u201d So we had no idea really what we were doing, but I felt as though when you look historically, and you look at really these investments that are more fundamental investments, especially in the history of our economy, I look at downturns and I look at upturns. Is that a word upturns? I look at the ups and the downs. Let\u2019s put it that way.<\/p>\n

Rob:
It is now.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
It is now, but I felt very confident because when I look looked at the history of housing prices and things like that, obviously this was after 2008 and 2009, but we were already back on an upswing. When I look at the markets and things like that, I had a lot of faith in order to do this because, A, even though I didn\u2019t calculate for reserves and things like that, which is a pretty massive mistake, honestly, because we had a main line break right after that or we had to like replace the main line. So we didn\u2019t have reserves for that. We learned our lesson pretty quickly after that, but I just felt like my partner and I both came from backgrounds and families where they had done real estate, and that they\u2019d done it a long time ago and it was 2008 and 2009. Now, they\u2019re still doing it.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I think we had a little bit of some mentors, if you will, in our past or people that we could mirror ourselves off of that were never afraid to really invest in real estate because it is that really good, tangible asset with tons of exit strategies, which we\u2019ve learned a lot about over the past few years, but we started with that single family home as a long-term rental, and we didn\u2019t do it right, right?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Looking retroactively, we didn\u2019t do it right, but the reason that we felt so comfortable is because, A, I had a really good partner to do that with, and B, we had a very similar background as to what our thoughts were going into it. So that offset some of the risk for me as having someone else be 50\/50 in that with me, but also, historically, I\u2019d had people in my life that had invested pretty heavily in real estate, and sure, they had taken some punches and bruises here and there, but ultimately, their portfolio and the accumulation of wealth had been, cumulatively, it had been up.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I just really wasn\u2019t afraid. I couldn\u2019t imagine that getting into this piece of real would really \u2026 Maybe I was too optimistic, but I couldn\u2019t imagine that it would really go to a place where I would be in big trouble and then, \u201cCould I sell it? Okay. Even if it takes a 20% hit, okay, that\u2019s what my loan-to-value was 80%.\u201d I was not really afraid because I felt like I had a lot of barriers around that and historically, a lot of confidence that this would just be a good investment, and even if it wasn\u2019t, \u201cOkay. That\u2019s all right. I have a W-2 job. I can take on that risk. I sell it immediately.\u201d There\u2019s a lot of ways to get out of those investments, especially your first ones if it really goes poorly. So I just felt like it wasn\u2019t actually a huge risk when you really looked at it holistically.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure. So now that you\u2019ve learned the lesson of the reserves on your first deal, how much do you typically keep in reserves? What did you actually learn tactically from that mistake that you called it one of your first big mistakes? How has that set up the procedure for managing reserves in any new investment that you do now?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. We had zero reserves, nothing. We didn\u2019t think anything was going to go wrong with the 1960s house like, \u201cHow could we have been wrong?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u201cWhat could go wrong with a 70-year-old house?\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
\u201cWhat could go wrong? What could go wrong?\u201d So once we had to replace the main line, which that\u2019s all whole other story about a guy we hired, and then he ran off with some of our deposit, we had to hire someone else. So we got all the lessons in the first one, really. We got them all out of the way. So it was actually a blessing in disguise when you think about it retroactively, but when it was at that point, we were like, \u201cWell, crap. We messed this up, but let\u2019s keep going.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We still knew underneath it all that it was a good deal, but now, when we look at properties and whatnot, a lot of what we did on that first one, I never thought about it, but we did a lot of work to that first one. Actually, a lot of people say, \u201cJust buy a place where you only need to update the aesthetics.\u201d When we actually bought it, we were just like, \u201cOkay. We just have money. We know we\u2019re going to update it, but a lot of what we needed to update was the utilities, the functionality of the house.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we updated hot water heater. We updated the furnace. Denver has things called swamp coolers, which are synonymous with air conditioners. We updated a lot of those things. So in retrospect, I, in the beginning, was like, \u201cWow! I spent a lot of my money on things that people are not going to increase the price I get for rent,\u201d and I was upset about that, but then when I think back about it, it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, my reserves actually could be lower because I\u2019ve really fixed a lot of the core things that typically an operating cost would have to take care of,\u201d something that I would have to have a reserve for because we know that plumbing is an issue. We know the electrical is an issue and we updated a lot of that.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I feel like what that taught us was we still try to look for houses now where a lot of those utilities are better so that we don\u2019t have to have as much in reserves, but we play with it, right? We put our percentages of reserves based on how much attention that we\u2019ve given to the utilities versus just the aesthetics of the house. So that\u2019s not really a number per se, but I think that that\u2019s how we think about it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We have found someone we really like for every mainline water inspection because in Arvada, Colorado, which is where we have that single-family, we learned that every single pipe that was built in that age range of home is clay, and I don\u2019t know who came up with that, but that\u2019s a terrible idea. So that\u2019s a big one that we keep a little bit for that every single time even if it hasn\u2019t been replaced yet. Sometimes we just say no to a house when it\u2019s that old and it hasn\u2019t been replaced because that\u2019s about a $7,000 to $10,000 fix. So that\u2019ll wipe you out for a long time.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, yeah. That could definitely crush returns there for a year. So you\u2019ve talked about mitigating risk. You now have learned a little bit more around, yeah, what kind of reserves you want or what kind of properties you\u2019re buying or not buying. You\u2019re partnering up with somebody. It\u2019s 50\/50. So that mitigates that particular risk. Then you also have your W-2 job that is also bringing in the cashflow. So I actually wanted to get into that a little bit and talk about what\u2019s your plan. As W-2 person, especially in your industry, obviously, I\u2019m sure it\u2019s a lucrative industry, but are you looking to seven properties starts to get to that point, especially if you have short-term rentals and everything like that where you might start considering heavying up more in the real estate side and siphoning off your W-2. What do you want? What do you plan to do here in the next few years?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
That\u2019s a good question, Rob, and I feel like it changes probably every quarter, six months, a year. My partner and I like to sit down every year and go over what was our plan at the beginning and then how did it end up, and then what\u2019s our plan for next year. I can tell you my favorite quote is that Mike Tyson quote where he says, \u201cEveryone goes into it with a plan to get punched in the mouth.\u201d I swear, that\u2019s happened to us many different times, and it\u2019s not as aggressive as being punched in the mouth. It\u2019s just we just start to think something else or we want to go after something else.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So my ideal is that I really still like working in a W-2 environment. I also like the fact that my company has a 401k match. I love the fact that I am diversifying a lot of my income and a lot of my investments through my current W-2 job, but a big reason why I got into real estate was that there was a part of that that was missing that I wanted more control over, and there was a part of that that just excited me at the same time, which is you can see across our portfolio there\u2019s a lot of diversification in our portfolio as well.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
When I think about it long term, I think of it as a slow roll. I think I\u2019m very, unlike a lot of people that I listen to on this podcast because they are about finding financial freedom, somewhat as fast as possible, I don\u2019t quite feel that way. I feel like I get a lot out of my current job and what I understand and what I learn, and I can apply that to being better at real estate investing. So from my perspective, I agree with you. We keep saying that to one another where, \u201cOkay. We keep getting all these properties. How are we going to continue to really figure out how to not only manage them on a day-to-day basis, but manage the bookkeeping of them, figuring out when we have to do all the due diligence around getting our accountant to do our taxes and things like that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I see it more as like one of those weighted scales, right? So right now, a lot of my time is very much focused on W-2 and here\u2019s real estate because I want to put all of my focus that\u2019s needed into W-2. I don\u2019t want to short change my company who\u2019s really treated me very well. Then I want to just, I think you see it, slowly transition that into potentially more real estate.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I don\u2019t know how long that\u2019ll take and I feel like our goals change pretty often, but I don\u2019t feel the need to 10 properties and then I\u2019m out the door. It doesn\u2019t feel that way to me. It\u2019s much more of a, if anything, I think I would take a lesser job. Some of the things that I\u2019ve thought about are going into real estate technology because that\u2019s an industry that is incredibly interesting to me and deserves a lot of disruption if you ask me.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So yeah, I think it\u2019s not necessarily a specific number. It\u2019s more of a feel, \u201cWhen is this getting to the point where I\u2019m just so much more interested in real estate? We have so much more going on. I can do so much more,\u201d and then making that shift. I don\u2019t know that shift is going to be cold turkey. I think that shift is going to be more so cutting down a little bit more so that I can continue to mitigate that risk a little bit more with that W-2, but I don\u2019t have to mitigate it as much.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Totally. Yeah. I mean, I don\u2019t think it should ever be cold turkey, personally. I mean, I always tell people, not that I\u2019m ever offering advice on this subject to somebody, I mean, I think when it comes to quitting your W-2, your full-time job, there is no right or wrong, there\u2019s just what\u2019s right for you and what feels right for you, but for me, that moment came when I was working full-time job and I was also investing in properties and I was launching my YouTube channel and I couldn\u2019t possibly do anything more. I couldn\u2019t possibly invest in more real estate or make any more content until I gave something up, and that was going to be my W-2 job.<\/p>\n

Rob:
For me, I probably honestly waited a little too long because I called my bosses up on a Zoom and I was started crying immediately, and they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, no. What\u2019s wrong?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
I was like, \u201cIt\u2019s nothing. It\u2019s just I\u2019m quitting.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
They\u2019re like, \u201cAre you going to be okay financially? Are you okay?\u201d Because I was a mess.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I was like, \u201cYeah. I make so much more money doing the other stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
They were like, \u201cThen what are you crying about?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know. Healthcare?\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
So for me at that moment, it really was, it was the healthcare. It was the $2,000 expense of healthcare was truly holding me back from ever scaling up my real estate business or my content creation business or anything like that. So I\u2019m curious, Dave. I mean, you\u2019ve left behind a W-2 job. What was that moment for you? What do you recommend for people? Because, obviously, in this housing market, we\u2019re having a lot of highs right now and a lot of success in the real estate world. So how would you navigate that?<\/p>\n

David:
Well, YouTube both hit it on the head when you said it\u2019s different for everyone. So my personality was I\u2019m more conservative. So I worked that job as long as I could until my turning point was literally I had a listing and I couldn\u2019t get it on the MLS for two days in a row because I was too busy at work. Then I was getting held over so I couldn\u2019t get off work and do it when I got home. I just realized in my gut I\u2019m not doing right by the client. I need to quit the job and focus on real estate, but there\u2019s also the people who don\u2019t have to quit their job but want to quit their job. That\u2019s probably where I would want to put some advice right now.<\/p>\n

David:
In a market that we tend to make decisions when we\u2019re investing in real estate or in a lot of things that are opposite of what you see happening, so if you\u2019re in a jujitsu match and someone\u2019s pushing you, you want to pull them. You don\u2019t want to push against them. You\u2019d get tired. So when the market\u2019s hot, we tend to pull, pull back. Don\u2019t buy as much. Be more conservative. Have stricter rules that you\u2019re going to be investing by. When there\u2019s a down market, we want to be more aggressive. Do what you got to do. Borrow some more money. We\u2019re doing things that are traditionally riskier, but because you\u2019re at the bottom of the market, that risk is mitigated by cheaper prices and rising values.<\/p>\n

David:
The market we\u2019re in right now, we don\u2019t know if we\u2019re in the bottom or the top. That\u2019s what is so confusing is prices are higher than they have ever been, but every indication says they\u2019re going to keep increasing. So that traditional way of looking at it got a lot of people just arguing right now. There\u2019s people that say you need to be buying, it\u2019s going to run, and there\u2019s people that are saying you be a fool to do that, you\u2019re at the top, you need to hold back.<\/p>\n

David:
So my response to that is to say I can\u2019t tell which one of those is going to happen. I can\u2019t predict the future. I tend to be in the camp of I think we\u2019re going to keep printing and we\u2019re going to keep driving up asset prices and so buying in the better cities, the better areas and the better properties is going to make you a winner, but I don\u2019t know that.<\/p>\n

David:
So where I pull back would be this is not the time to go live a life of luxury because you got some cashflow coming in from properties. This is not the time to quit your job out of luxury as opposed to necessity. What you two are describing is, Rob, you said, \u201cI couldn\u2019t work anymore. I was losing opportunity. I had to quit,\u201d and, Marj, you\u2019re saying, \u201cI\u2019m not at that point yet, so I don\u2019t see that happening.\u201d I think that\u2019s the wise advice. When we don\u2019t know what direction the real estate market is going to take, I want additional of income that are completely unrelated to real estate.<\/p>\n

David:
So if we are at the top, I\u2019m okay, I have money coming in, and if we\u2019re at the bottom, I just lost a little bit of time and effort, but I didn\u2019t actually lose money. So my advice to people is if you\u2019re thinking about quitting your job, if it\u2019s because you can make more money doing something else, that\u2019s okay. Make sure that platform is going to be solid and the bottom\u2019s not going to drop out from underneath you because that is a possibility. If you don\u2019t have to quit your job, don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

David:
I know that that\u2019s different than what every single other real estate investing influencer tells you. They\u2019re all trying to convince you, \u201cQuit your job and let me be the one to help you do it,\u201d right? I\u2019m way more into supplement your job. Okay? Fortify your financial position. Build up fortress around your job with rental properties and with flipping properties and with additional sources of income. Don\u2019t look at it like, \u201cDo I have to do one or the other?\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
With what we\u2019ve seen changing in the pandemic, so many people are allowed to work from home, you do have more flexibility in many cases than ever before to make additional income, to do a side hustle. So that would be my two cents. Until I know what\u2019s happening with our crazy market, I\u2019m saying get a job and not only have a job, but build a skillset within that job so you\u2019re solid. If they\u2019re going to make layoffs, it\u2019s not going to be you, and if your company does go under, you can get another job that makes more money or even try to make more money within your job.<\/p>\n

David:
So I don\u2019t have the crystal ball, but that doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019m not doing anything. So I\u2019m in that same boat. I\u2019m still buying a lot of rental properties. I\u2019m still buying a lot of real estate, but I\u2019m still working. I\u2019m still earning money through these other businesses because I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I think just having one stream of income is risky, right? For me, I try to have as many streams of income as possible, preferably a lot of different streams of income from real estate, from different asset classes, which, Marj, that\u2019s what you talked about. I mean, you have a mixture of long-term rentals, short-term rentals. So yeah, I mean, I think that\u2019s the only way to really mitigate risk is just to give yourself more options because for me at that time, it was actually risky, just for me personally, to keep my job because it was actually costing me money on my other businesses, and that was the turning point for me, but I agree. I think you should be really busting at the seams and spread pretty thin with your nine-to-five job and the other stuff you\u2019re doing before you ever quit.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I don\u2019t think it should be like, \u201cYeah. I think I don\u2019t want to do this. I don\u2019t want to work a W-2. I want to just go all in on real estate.\u201d Well, you still need the money. You still need to pay the bills. So I think it\u2019s a tough call for a lot of people, but yeah. I mean, obviously, it\u2019s case by case.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. I mean, if you look at some of the largest founders of some of the biggest companies in the world, I mean, they all held their jobs, right? I mean, Steve Jobs or was it Steve Bosniac? I mean, they all kept their jobs before they really went off and put themselves 100% into these large companies. I don\u2019t know, Malcolm Gladwell, I mean, a lot of people read him. I really enjoy all his books. In the Originals, he didn\u2019t invest in Warby Parker when they came to him because he was like, \u201cWell, they\u2019re still holding onto their jobs. They\u2019re not going in full steam, which means they\u2019re not dedicated to this,\u201d and he lost out on probably millions of dollars worth of profit on his investment.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I don\u2019t know. I think it\u2019s really just how you look at it and I thought you guys described it perfectly, right? It\u2019s to each their own eye of beholder do what\u2019s right for you. It does not mean you need to \u2026 I read a lot of the podcasts or listen to a lot of the podcasts, read a lot of the forums and people are like, \u201cHow can I do this immediately?\u201d For those people, that might be right, but I think there\u2019s a lot of people that almost look at it like, \u201cShould I leave because everyone else wants to leave?\u201d That\u2019s the key to a happy life. I think you have to figure that out for yourself.<\/p>\n

David:
Now, what about what we talked about earlier when we discussed looking at different deals or different opportunities in different asset classes and making the decision if this is right for you? Can you share your philosophy on your approach to looking at all kinds of different stuff?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. I mean, I hate to say that it\u2019s unscientific, but it\u2019s probably slightly unscientific. I mean, I do a lot of it through word of mouth, and I can talk a little bit about this, too, but about three years ago, especially when I was getting interested in real estate and I didn\u2019t really know really necessarily what to do and where to go to get the information, I hadn\u2019t even found bigger pockets yet, and I looked on meetup, which I think a lot of people do to see if there was some real estate group and there wasn\u2019t one.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I created one. It\u2019s called Rocky Mountain Women Invest. It\u2019s local to Denver. We started with 30 members. Now, we\u2019re up to over 300. So pretty proud of that, but I will say a lot of the things that I start to get interested in is listening to speakers that come in and hearing about different people talk about things. We had to meetup last night and a woman was telling me, \u201cYeah, I buy land in Fort Collins. I buy land and I put like yurts and domes on it.\u201d She said, \u201cOne of the most highly searched things on Google search engine is unique Airbnbs,\u201d and she does really well.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I just think it\u2019s very unscientific how it comes to me, but then I get a little bit more scientific in terms of doing my research. So I mean, the ideas for things like that, they come and it\u2019s about talking to a lot of people, and we have speakers that it\u2019s so much about just hearing a soundclip or a soundbite of someone that\u2019s doing something different and saying, \u201cOh, that\u2019s interesting. Would that be something I\u2019d be interested in? Let me look a little bit more into that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Sometimes people come up to me and they ask me questions where I can\u2019t confidently answer them and we\u2019d never done a private loan before, but a friend of mine was like, \u201cI want to have this duplex, and I\u2019m only going to buy it if I really have cash to buy it with.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We said, \u201cOkay. Let\u2019s start looking at it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I don\u2019t know that we try super hard. I\u2019m not sitting over at my computer saying, \u201cThis is what I should be doing. I need to go for that.\u201d I think it\u2019s more so I pick up on a lot of it from podcasts and talking to people and certainly the investor meetup and things like that. How it comes to me is very unscientific, but how I research them and things like that I think is where the effort really needs to come in to feel comfortable to actually move forward.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. So do you think you could really just clarify here? When you said that you were the private lender, give us the nuts and bolts of this. Were you actually lending out of your pocket to a friend to fund their deal?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Correct. Yeah, definitely. So she had a duplex in Tampa, Florida. She actually owned the duplex right next door to it. She had found out that they were potentially ready to sell it, and she was hoping it wouldn\u2019t go on the market. Then once it did, her strategy needed to change. So they had some offers, and she knew that she was not going to get it unless she had cash. So she came to my partner and I and she said \u2026 She had some other source of income too, but she couldn\u2019t get that person to give her the full source. So she needed another partner to fill in the rest.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She said, \u201cI don\u2019t need it for that long. It\u2019s only a few months.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Actually, the woman I\u2019m talking about is my co-lead at the investor meetup. So I knew her very well, felt very comfortable. She said, \u201cI need X amount. I only need it for X amount of time, and here\u2019s the percentage that I\u2019m willing to give,\u201d which is pretty standard. We were not planning to do another investment in the short term. Sure, having that money is great if you need to jump on something, but I really wanted to try private lending and I really wanted her to get this property.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So she asked us for a certain amount. We agreed on a rate. My partner\u2019s father is a retired lawyer, so that\u2019s helpful. So he helped us make sure that we drafted up a good contract, and then I was able to really understand it too and help out and work alongside him because I had negotiated contracts before, but it gave me all the education as to all the things that he was thinking about that I just had never thought about.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She was able to get that property, and then she just paid us back with interest a couple weeks ago, actually. So she only held the money for maybe three months and she HELOCed the property. So she was able to get that loan essentially to cover the amount and then pay us back. So it worked out really well. We did a bunch of just understanding. She\u2019s super organized. She did all of her due diligence. We reviewed all of it just like we would when an underwriter comes to us and asks a bunch of questions, maybe not that in depth, but we understood. She already had a property right next door. She knew very well the value of the property, which made me feel very comfortable.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We had my partner\u2019s dad help us with the legal agreement. So that not only saved us money, but we got an education around that. Then I just trusted her in general because I\u2019d worked with her for two years now. So I knew what she was doing. I knew the type of investing that she did and all the signs, all the bright lights of \u201cShould you do this? Should you not do it?\u201d were all pointed to yes. She had shown us all the opportunity that she would have with the HELOC and all the numbers and things like that she would have no problem getting that loan to pay us back. So it all worked out and all signs pointed to yes, and we pulled the trigger and it worked out really well.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So if I wanted to go out and lend money to somebody, let\u2019s say David, what are some of the things that we actually need to do? Is it as simple as a promissory note, and is it simple interest, compounding interest? How do the mechanics of something like that come together?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. Again, ours was not super scientific. We agreed on a rate. That was what she felt that she could pay. She knew how long she would need that loan for. I think some people might not have done that because is it worth giving? It was about 100 grand, and is it giving 100 grand for X amount of time with that percentage? I think some people might not think the juice isn\u2019t worth the squeeze kind of, right? So they might not do it. So we agreed on that. I think that was the biggest, which was to us, is it worth the opportunity cost of some deal came in? I\u2019m not sure necessarily that I have a yes or no feeling around that, but we looked at what the property was. She already had her property right next door valued so we knew what the value of that was.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
When we went to do the loan or went to do the contract for it, there were a couple different ways that you could do it, right? Something that stands up in court that says you have a lien on this property so we would have to get paid essentially or there\u2019s also the other opportunity where we could have actually had her sign over X amount percent of that property should she default. So there was different opportunities to do that. I felt very comfortable with having something written that basically said we have a lie on the property because you owe us this money. So we would essentially be able to bring that to court should anything have gone wrong and say we own X percent of that property because we paid for it and we\u2019re entitled to that.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s enough of the specifics per se, but-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. I think so.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
\u2026 we locked it up pretty confidently and a lot of that reason is because we had my partner\u2019s dad who had negotiated contracts like this in the past. So we learned about it, but overall, more than anything, and I hate to say this because trust is very important, but obviously in the letter of the law, it\u2019s not important, right? Just having a trust and a hope and a wish is not really anything, but we felt like we had enough information in that contract, which there are many good lawyers to work with that, can put together a contract like that for you.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We\u2019ve had some speak at the Rocky Mountain Women Invest. So I think you should always have a contract and a lock tight contract and agree on how long it\u2019s going to take this person to pay you back, and then what happens when they don\u2019t pay you back after that amount of time. Agree on a rate. What happens if they don\u2019t pay you that rate? Do you want them to pay you monthly? Do you want them to pay you all at the end? These are all the types of stipulations that you need to review with this person if you\u2019re going to loan them money.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Again, trust that person, right? Get to know that person aside from just putting the numbers together. I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know that I would blindly loan to someone I didn\u2019t really know. That\u2019s not my main business, and if I do it again, it will definitely have to be with someone who can provide me all those numbers, and that I know them because it feels better to me.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure. So I guess what you\u2019re saying is don\u2019t just lend your money out to strangers, which I think is a pretty good tip. I think that might be our quick tip for today\u2019s podcast, but obviously, when you\u2019re putting together these promissory notes and these contracts, they have to go on some fancy stationery. So I\u2019m curious, do you have any tips for using fancy stationeries whenever you\u2019re curating some of these contracts?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I have never used stationery except for one specific time, and it was to ask someone to sell me their house off market. So no, everything was digital for that contract, but if that\u2019s your lead into this flip conversation, that is a perfect lead in because-<\/p>\n

Rob:
It sure is.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
\u2026 yeah, I have stationery. I\u2019m pretty sure that was from college. That was given to me by an aunt or something like that, and I\u2019ve never used it, but I\u2019ve always kept it because I was like, \u201cSomeday this will come in handy,\u201d and that was, I think, a big reason how I got an off market property, actually.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So yeah, tell us about this deal.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. So this deal was in the best location possible, and when I say it was in the best location possible, it was in the best location because it was across the street from us. So it was across the street from our primary residence. We actually didn\u2019t really know these neighbors very well, but another neighbor who I was very friendly with had said that this couple was moving out of state. They were retiring, they were moving out of state.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I said, \u201cWow! Do you think they might want to sell their house to me?\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She said, \u201cI don\u2019t know. Go ahead and ask.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I was outside getting the mail, doing something, and I saw her. Her name is Wendy, going to start walking the dogs. I walked up to her and I said, \u201cI hear you\u2019re leaving us.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She said, \u201cYup. We\u2019re we\u2019re flying the coop. We\u2019re going to retire in Northern Idaho.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I said, \u201cWow! Are you guys going to list your house soon?\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She said, \u201cYeah, I think so. We haven\u2019t really decided what to do with that.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I said, \u201cWell, listen. We have a couple rental properties in the area. We\u2019re familiar with buying and selling real estate, and we would love to make you a really competitive offer to sell.\u201d I said, \u201cWe have a friend of ours who\u2019s an agent and so you would actually have to pay no commission because she would come in and partner with us. So we\u2019d save you on that. You wouldn\u2019t have to go and get your house in a good state for sale,\u201d because they had three dogs. So I know that they did not want to have to shuttle these dogs in and out to do showings and things like that.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I realized, too, in talking with her that she also really didn\u2019t want to do a lot of work to the house, and the house did need some work. They did a good job keeping it up, but they hadn\u2019t made any aesthetic updates. They hadn\u2019t really done any large scale updates that probably might have needed to some deferred maintenance that needed to be done.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I said, \u201cThink of us. Let me know what you think. If you want to talk with your husband, we\u2019re certainly willing, and there\u2019s no time frame for us. So we can be as flexible as you guys need to be.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She said, \u201cThanks.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I went back into the house and didn\u2019t think anything more about it, right? I\u2019m going to shoot my shot and see what happens, but I did want to memorialize the conversation. So I took that really pretty purple stationery. I don\u2019t like pink and purple. That\u2019s not my color, but I took that pretty purple stationery and I wrote a very nice note on it just to memorialize our conversation and say, \u201cWendy, we would love to do all these things. Here are the things that I think would be really beneficial to you. Let me know if that works for you guys.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Got the mail. She had waved one time when I was driving away and said, \u201cWe got your mail. Thanks,\u201d blah, blah. Still thought nothing of it. A month later, she caught me as I was doing something outside and said, \u201cI think we want to go with you guys.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
This is after we had just finished stabilizing another long-term rental. So we were exhausted. We were very tired. So I called my partner on the phone and I said, \u201cHey, so good news? We got another property.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
She was like, \u201cI thought we promised ourselves that we were going to take a little bit of a break.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I was like, \u201cNope. This is too good of a deal. Let\u2019s do it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So anyway, it was a flip across the street. So we did get 30-year mortgage for it. So we knew we were going to have some carrying costs, but I think the magical thing about this was that we brought in an investor, a friend of ours who\u2019s actually an agent because I do not have my real estate license and neither does my partner. So a big opportunity for getting this under contract I think was that the seller did not have to use. They didn\u2019t have to have a representation.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So our agent, our friend, our investor acted as a transacting broker. So she was representing the seller and she was representing the buyer. I think the nice part about this whole thing was that we actually hugged after we got to the contracting table. They were so happy. I think in a lot of ways you think that you\u2019re taking advantage of people. They were so happy that we were doing this for them. They were so happy because they were building a house in Northern Idaho. We were giving them cash immediately. We did a rent back for her because she had a little bit of a retirement party that she was going to. So I feel like both sides really got something really good out of this. I think a lot of times people feel like, \u201cOh, you got a house off market. You must have tricked them,\u201d or \u201cYou\u2019ve done something,\u201d or \u201cYou offered them something, and that wasn\u2019t right.\u201d No, this was fantastic. Both sides were equally happy about this.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So in terms of the numbers, which I\u2019m looking at right now, but in terms of the numbers, so we paid 460 for the flip and we felt like that was actually pretty good. We thought we could actually spend all the way up to probably about 500 or a little over 500 and still make the money that we wanted to make. Aside from the acquisition cost in terms of rehab costs and carrying costs, we paid about 95,000 combined, and then we wanted to list. So we got ourselves into the 550 range. We had assumed that we wanted to make about a 100K. So we were going to list it at about 650 if I\u2019m just creating simple math, and because the market just exploded while we were doing this, we already thought we would do well because we saw some of the comps, but we ended up listing for 645 and we sold it for 741.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So like I said earlier that Denver\u2019s a hot market, Denver is a hot market, but to some of the stuff that we were talking about earlier, this is where I just couldn\u2019t say no to this deal. We had never done a flip before, but you just knew inherently by knowing different things about the deals you had done previously. We had talked to so many renters that were going to rent some of our properties and telling us what the rentals look like, how they had to rent because they couldn\u2019t buy a house.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we ingested all that knowledge somewhat ominously in terms of we just knew it was a good deal because we had been in this space, we had seen what the numbers were doing, we had friends that had told us what was going on. Rocky Mountain Women Invest speakers had also told us. So it was just through osmosis that we had understood that when we looked at this deal and we looked at all the numbers, we were like, \u201cYeah.\u201d We already had a crew to do the rehab, and we have a fantastic crew. I mean this, our contractor is like our older brother. He\u2019s amazing. It just ended up really, really well. We nailed it and I\u2019m so happy that we went forward with the deal.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Congratulations. Well, I think that\u2019s a very rare circumstance where you want to hug the opposite party at the end of a transaction. I\u2019m waiting for that day where I want to hug the opposite side of that because it\u2019s always a little tense there at the end. So that sounds like a really good deal. Congratulations. So what was the exact profit on that after you listed it and you said it went for 741?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. So splitting it three ways across the three of us, everyone got about 55,000 each. So in terms of return on investment, it was about 75%.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Really nice. Congratulations. So then obviously, you took your 55,000 and bought a nice car?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Do you mean that we put that money into the house that we just closed on this week because we\u2019re gluttons for punishment and we can\u2019t stop. We\u2019re just real estate junkies.<\/p>\n

David:
I don\u2019t know how much punishment that is making $55,000 three ways.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, man. I hate making 55,000.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. I was just really tired from the last deal and I didn\u2019t know if I wanted to. I just gritted my teeth. Real estate\u2019s horrible.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So here\u2019s the other problem where in the beginning of the story I said it was the best possible location. It\u2019s actually the worst possible location, too, because now you have neighbors that know that you were the ones that did this work because all your other neighbors saw it. So I don\u2019t feel badly. We did a really good job on that house, but I think it was somewhat serendipitous that we got this other place and we\u2019re actually moving into to it.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, you made those neighbors a lot of money is what you did. Their houses are all worth quite a bit more after that.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
That\u2019s right. We had some realtors on the street that had been looking, and I was looking across the street through the window and we had some other neighbors looking through it and I was like, \u201cWe must have done something well. They\u2019re so curious.\u201d So they were very happy.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. So you\u2019re clearly good at making money on deals. We want to hear about another deal that you\u2019ve done. We\u2019re going to move into the next segment of our show, The Deal Deep Dive. All right. Marj, in this segment of the show, we are going to dive deep into one particular deal you\u2019ve done, Rob and I will alternate asking you questions and you can fire right back at us. Question number one, what kind of property are we going to be talking about?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We are talking about a multi-family property. It is a triplex.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Question number two, how did you find it?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So like I said, we can\u2019t stop ourselves from looking on the MLS. I\u2019m on Redfin all of the time. I think that they have the best mobile app experience, actually. So when I have a little bit of a break or I\u2019m waiting for someone to join a Zoom, I am constantly looking on the MLS to see what\u2019s going on, if not for a property, to see what other houses look like and what the price is and things like that. I\u2019m just ultimately curious about every single house that gets listed.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we saw this one. It probably was on the market for I think less than an hour when it it listed and I shot it over to my partner immediately. I was like, \u201cThis is really interesting. Please look at this.\u201d So they came into my office and they said, \u201cWhat are we going to do? This is interesting.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
How much was it?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
The price, it was listed at 1.4 million.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay, and then how much did you buy it for?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I\u2019m very prideful of how we got this deal because we actually decided to go into it. We just directly called the seller\u2019s agent and we introduced ourselves and said what our intent was, \u201cWe\u2019re investors in the area. This is a really interesting property. We want to live here. What\u2019s your comfort level in terms of being a transacting broker?\u201d Come to learn now, he is a commercial broker. He\u2019s not a residential agent. So I think in general, he works with the guy that owns this, who owns a lot of commercial real estate. I don\u2019t know if I can say this, but it\u2019s actually an NHL player that we\u2019re buying this property from. He actually used to be part of the Colorado Avalanche, but I guess it\u2019s all public records so it doesn\u2019t matter.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we started talking with him and presenting ourselves in a way that we thought that he would be very interested. When we started to talk with him more and more and ask questions, the place was fully furnished. The seller didn\u2019t want to deal with furnishings. The seller was out of state. This guy being the seller\u2019s agent was going to have to do everything, right? He was going to have to work on the staging. He was going to have to get the mobile notary. He was going to have to do everything.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
We said, \u201cWe\u2019ll do all that for you. You don\u2019t have to worry about the furniture. You don\u2019t have to do any of that stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
The other thing I think he was pretty nervous about was that this was a very funky property in the sense that it\u2019s surrounded by a lot of single-family homes in that price range. I think he wanted someone to take it on that understood that type of real estate and that wasn\u2019t afraid to take on something along those lines because I think when people think about paying $1.4 million, they want an amazing single-family home and this was not. This was not the same thing.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we really presented ourselves as someone who really understood what he was asking for. We would do everything, and then we would not bring a buyer\u2019s agent so that he could figure out with his client. He could save his client some money. He could also negotiate his commission with his client because they have a long-term relationship. So he could come out looking really well, too, and then he could really have more control over the deal as well.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That sounds basically how you negotiated it. How did you fund it?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we funded it through a majority of the profit that we made off of the flip and then we had done a cash out refi on our primary residents. One of the speakers that I listened to at the Rocky Mountain Women Invest had said to me once, \u201cWhen you have equity in your home, you\u2019re not earning equity on your equity. You\u2019re earning that because you bought the house to begin with and that house itself is earning the equity, but if you took that money out, you\u2019d still be earning the same amount on that house. So you\u2019re essentially just having money sit there and do nothing for you.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we ended up taking money out of our primary residence. So we used a combination of that and a combination of the profit from the flip, and that was what we were able to use as a down payment, but it was a residential loan so we did 20% off of that, and we offered through talking with this agent who did accept being the transacting broker and talked to the client and they were all comfortable, we talked with him and said, \u201cWhat is going to get this deal done so that no one else goes and sees it?\u201d because when I called I was pushy and I was like, \u201cJust let us see it. I know it\u2019s not staged or cleaned. Just let us see it. We don\u2019t care. We don\u2019t care at all. Please just don\u2019t,\u201d and he didn\u2019t have any appointments till Saturday. We made an offer with a expiration of Friday night. So we made an offer of 1.5. So we went 100K because we were like, \u201cWe\u2019re done with this. We know how hot the market is. We know what the opportunity is for this property. We\u2019re just going to go for it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we were out Friday night, got a text from the agent who said, \u201cYou got yourself a deal.\u201d So no one else even saw this property. It was ours. They took it off the market immediately.<\/p>\n

David:
How did you fund this deal?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So we funded them through a 30-year fixed mortgage, and we put 20% down because it was a residential property because we would be living in it. So we didn\u2019t have to pay the extra 25 or the extra 5% that you would with more of a standard loan on investment property, which would allow us to outfit this property in a way that we were okay living in a multi-family because we haven\u2019t lived in one before.<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m curious, how did you find whatever lender you ended up using?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So lender we used is actually a woman that had spoken at the investor meetup, who I invited to speak and she\u2019s fantastic. I\u2019ve actually used her for almost all of our deals. I know that people shop around for a lot of different rates and whatnot, but because a majority of our income and debt and things like that are in real estate, I really feel comfortable with her because she\u2019s very creative in terms of how she can get the underwriter to understand what our assets are, that rentals are not necessarily debt but they\u2019re assets.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So she does a really good job of helping us and being creative to get not only good rates, but also get us under contract. So it was a lender that we had worked with. I think she\u2019s done all of our rental properties at this point.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Awesome. What did you do with it? Flip, BRRRR, rental, all of the above?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I would say it\u2019s still pending, but we will be moving out of our primary residence in Arvada. This house is in Denver. So we\u2019re moving out of our primary residence. We will be occupying \u2026 So it\u2019s a three-unit in the sense that there is an ADU, a brand new ADU in the backyard, so an accessory dwelling unit in the backyard. We will be living in that. Then there is a front house to this on the same property that has an upstairs unit and a downstairs unit. So like the theme of this entire podcast, we\u2019re going to try our hands at something new again. This is our first multi multifamily, but it\u2019s also going to be our first short-term rental. So we\u2019re going to short term rent the basement unit while we\u2019re there. So we\u2019re trying another one.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
The nice part about this deal, too, is that in terms of what we were paying for our mortgage on our primary residents to get into this house, obviously more money down, but to get into this house, it doesn\u2019t really increase our mortgage at all. So we\u2019re going to be able to offset quite a bit of the cost of this with renting out the front unit upstairs and downstairs and then get over ourselves an education on Airbnb as well because that\u2019s the next thing that I really want to learn more about.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I wonder if there\u2019s anyone that could help you with that.<\/p>\n

David:
Something I want to highlight about what you mentioned is you bought a much more expensive house but your payment did not go up. I like to bring this up because a lot of people associate higher price with more risk. It\u2019s like this leap of faith. You have to take, in many cases, higher price equals less risk. You get into better neighborhoods. You get better tenants, especially when interest rates were lower. Now, you\u2019ve got several units that you can be renting out. So you\u2019ve diversified income streams. It\u2019s less risky than when you\u2019re buying at a lower price point in a worse neighborhood or a worse property. So that can be tricky when you\u2019re making your way through real estate and you\u2019re getting into bigger and bigger deals. They feel scarier, but that doesn\u2019t mean that they are, and you also answered the question about what was the outcome. So last question will be, what lessons did you learn from this deal?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I learned, I think, how to communicate with my partner and encourage them to live in a multi-family deal with me because there\u2019s some no-nos that we have in our relationship, which is I\u2019m not going to live in an eight-unit apartment complex. Craig Curelop always says, \u201cThe more money you make based on the more uncomfortable you are,\u201d and we\u2019re not okay with all of that uncomfortability. So I feel like we found the perfect property to figure out how we both could live in this and feel good and have it be a good investment, but also a comfortable space for us to live in.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I feel like that was a milestone in our relationship, which is trying to figure out what is our limit or what can we do from utilizing or leveraging our own ability to live in these properties that we want to invest in. So I think that was a win and that doesn\u2019t seem like much, but actually, I think with people who are spouses and things like that or have partners, it\u2019s actually good to figure out that common ground of where you can be.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Then I think in terms of that outcome, I\u2019m excited to learn something new. I\u2019ve talked with a lot of people that do Airbnb, but we\u2019ve never done it ourselves. I feel as though it\u2019s somewhat a less risky way of getting into that being that you\u2019re right there, which could be a good thing, could be a bad thing, but I think while we live there, it\u2019s great and our exit strategy can always be we could rent the whole thing. We could rent long term upstairs and downstairs. So lots of different exit strategies. I think it\u2019s just another notch in our education process to help us continue to want to invest in different types of opportunities, but also different types of real estate investments.<\/p>\n

Rob:
For sure. Well, for the record, I do think that being there is definitely the least risky way to do it. If you\u2019re there, you can pretty much handle any situation instantly. Whereas if you start investing a little bit farther out, you got to depend on your team more than on yourself. So I think you\u2019re doing it right.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. That will bring us to the last section of the show. It is the world famous-<\/p>\n

Speaker 4:
Famous four.<\/p>\n

David:
In this segment of the show, we are going to ask you the same four questions we ask every guest every episode. Question number one, what is your favorite real estate-related book?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Real estate-related? I\u2019m currently reading Brandon Turner\u2019s Multifamily Millionaire, which I think people like to have these obscure ones and things like that, but that one is just so dead on, just really easy to understand. Multi-family, I think for some people it\u2019s intimidating, but the concepts that he uses in there, it\u2019s like I can hear Brandon talking to me and narrating this book because it\u2019s so in Brandon Turner speak, but he makes it so incredibly simple that I feel like he\u2019s just beating me over the head with these concepts, and if I can\u2019t get at them, then I don\u2019t think anyone can get them, hopefully. I don\u2019t consider myself such an amazingly smart person, but I think it\u2019s so well done and it breaks it down so easily that it\u2019s a two part book. This one\u2019s the smaller multi-family and then there\u2019s another instance of it.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
So I don\u2019t know if I would say it\u2019s my favorite, but that\u2019s what I\u2019m reading right now. I tend to read books that are not necessarily as much real estate-related. So that\u2019s what I\u2019m reading right now. I\u2019m enjoying it, and if you want to learn about multifamily, I feel like that is a really good, concise, easy to pick up and easy to read book.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Awesome. Okay. Question number two, favorite business book.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Okay. This is the one that I was excited for, but everyone has those turning point books in their lives. My turning point book, and it actually was one that I heard another guest on the podcast talk about, which I got it for networking, honestly, and it ended up being conceptually so much of what I live my life by, but the book is Give and Take by Adam Grant, which I\u2019m sure other people have talked about on this podcast, but I just think the good of it is just so amazing, and a lot of what it talks about is really around that giving, it makes you so successful in so many areas of your life, business, relationships, networking, everything.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
It\u2019s really what I think about when I do any deal, whether that\u2019s in real estate or in my W-2 job or in my relationship or in a friendship and just it\u2019s amazing to me if you are a kind person that gives back, you will ultimately be successful. There\u2019s so many ways that that can infiltrate your life. So I highly recommend. I don\u2019t even know if it\u2019s so much business, but it\u2019s just such a good book. The person that I got that from, he was a master networker, and he thought that book was really good and helped him. I would say yes in networking, but every single area of your life. So I really highly recommend it, and I think it makes me very much a better negotiator. It\u2019s giving back to the community with Rocky Mountain Women Invest, but highly, highly recommend.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. We interviewed Adam Grant on our podcast episode 467. So if anyone was curious to learn more about old Adam, you can check him out where Brandon and I interviewed him. I also recently think he made cameo on HBO series Billions. I\u2019m pretty sure I saw him on there. It\u2019s a really quick scene, but if anybody out there has any access to the production team of Billions, let them know that Rob and I would be a very good asset to bring in for a real estate-related role. All right. Back to regularly scheduled.<\/p>\n

Rob:
We are willing to be ascendants also, just if you\u2019re just looking for that.<\/p>\n

David:
Rob, you could probably play my butt double, I suppose. You mean do a couple months of squats, make sure I look good, but yeah, I can see that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
We\u2019ll negotiate off camera. Question number three, outside of taking on really crazy real estate projects that scare you and that you\u2019re willing to take on head first, no, that\u2019s not, take on head on, there we go, what are some of your hobbies?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I love sports. I\u2019m a highly competitive person, which makes me a really good fit for a sales role, but also, I\u2019m a big car enthusiast. It was how my dad and I bonded I think a lot as a kid. So there\u2019s a guy I follow who invests in Northern Colorado, Mark Ferguson, if you guys have heard of him, and he\u2019s a 95%-<\/p>\n

David:
He talks about his Lamborghini every now and then, doesn\u2019t he?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Just a moderate amount, just a moderate amount, but I like his theory on it because I think it aligns well with mine, which is he\u2019s also open to alternative investments, which you could. It is classified that real estate investing is an alternative investment, but cars are also alternative investments. So I try to though just like him find cars that are unique enough that they appreciate and value because it\u2019s a little bit of a bad habit in terms of opportunity cost sinking money into that versus real estate. So I try to keep it at a point where my partner and I both agree that it\u2019ll hold its value or it will appreciate, and that I don\u2019t go and sink something into a car that\u2019s just going to just tank right off the lot or something along those lines. So you can find me definitely at some car meetups because I do love that.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Last question for me. In your opinion, what sets apart successful investors from those who give up, fail or never get started?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
I think looking at every deal. I think know your bounds, but anything that fits into your bounds always say, \u201cYes, I\u2019m at least going to review this.\u201d Try something new. From my perspective, I think once you get dead set in doing something, you have blinders on to other opportunities that might come up. I think it\u2019s great to get very specialized, but don\u2019t, I guess, negate the opportunity to listen to a new deal or someone\u2019s experience or something like that, and then go research it for yourself. Try it. There\u2019s so many different ways and so many different people that can help you figure that out, and don\u2019t be afraid to take on the risk.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Well said. Well, final here, not a question, but, Marj, earlier you were telling us you had 300 followers on Instagram and we got to pump up those numbers. So can you tell us a little bit more about where people can find out more about you, where they can follow you on the socials?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Yeah. David and I were talking about those. I have a terrible Instagram name, but if you want to follow me, I sometimes posts there. My Instagram is TheeMarjPatton. So T-H-E-E. Terrible, but I am much more active on our Rocky Mountain Women Invest Instagram. So it is just like it sounds, Rocky Mountain Women Invest except the Mountain is spelled MTN, and you guys should absolutely come if you are in the Denver area or if you\u2019re just going to be here sometime if you are a female or a woman looking to get more, find a community, network with people, listen to really good speakers. We\u2019re trying to grow this thing and it\u2019s just one of my favorite things. So I\u2019m always happy to talk and certainly talk about this podcast and you can tell me if it actually was helpful or not helpful, whatsoever. So I to totally welcome it, but yeah, look forward to that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s awesome. Did you say that your Instagram handle is thee like T-H-E-E?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Oh, yes. Embarrassingly, yes.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Very proper. I love it. David, I think we just figured out the solution to your TikTok problem, TheeDavidGreene.<\/p>\n

David:
Because you do copy Zerber so it fits with the sir thing.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. This is good. Increase thy pockets or something. I can see a way that we could work this in there. Increase thy pocket size.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Thy David Greene, and you could keep the 24 if you want. I\u2019m relatively certain there aren\u2019t 23 people that-<\/p>\n

David:
No, but we should change it to one score and four more or something like that. Isn\u2019t a score 20 from the old Abraham Lincoln? Four score in 20 year. I don\u2019t actually know how much a score is.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I think that is correct. I just don\u2019t know what it means. I\u2019ll be totally honest. I\u2019ll be vulnerable just for all of us.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, you\u2019re doing it in a moment of ridiculousness, so good idea. Rob, if people want to find out more about you, where can they can they do so?<\/p>\n

Rob:
They can always find me on the YouTubes. If you\u2019re looking to learn how to build tiny houses, Airbnb businesses, unique spaces, real estate investing and everything in between, you can always find me at Robuilt, R-O-B-U-I-L-T, Instagram on Robuilt, TikTok Robuilto, and yeah. That\u2019s it for me. I mean, you can follow me on Twitter, too, if you want, Robuilt channel, but the first three are more important.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. I forget I have a Twitter a lot of the time. I need to be better about that. I just hired a social media company to help run my pages. So I need to remind them that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Well, this is going to be the turning point where we get you to go viral in the Twitter sphere. So what are your handles?<\/p>\n

David:
I heard AMMA, he\u2019s actually a former Olympic wrestler, Henry Cejudo, was trash talking someone else and he said, \u201cYou couldn\u2019t pin a tweet,\u201d and I thought that was very funny, and also reminded me that Twitter is still around. So my handles are DavidGreene24. As Rob likes to say, there were 23 that came before me and I was able to snag the 24 spot, and then we\u2019re trying to figure out what my name\u2019s going to be on TikTok because everybody else \u2026 I think TikTok is the most visited website in the world more than Google, right?<\/p>\n

Rob:
It\u2019s true, especially now that you\u2019re dancing on there.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, do you think that I could have something to do with that? I\u2019ll take the credit for it. It seems impossible that something could have more visits than Google. That is one of the feats of the world I would say that you should put up there the most impressive accomplishments anyone has ever accomplished. To have anything more than Google seems like it would have to be up there. So yeah, that TikTok thing. I\u2019m also afraid to get on it, though. Brandon has warned me numerous times how addicting it is. So I just won\u2019t look at it. It\u2019s like Medusa. As long as I just don\u2019t make eye contact, I think I\u2019ll be okay. So I\u2019ve hired other people to go post stuff on there.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I hang out with some friends every Wednesday night and at the end of the night, one friend always broadcast his TikToks, what he\u2019s liked, and it\u2019s always just crazy stuff. Then I always look at mine and it\u2019s always entrepreneur, real estate, tiny house-related and I\u2019m like, \u201cAll right, good. I haven\u2019t fallen for it yet.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
You\u2019re dancing with the devil in the pale Moonlight. I got to tell you, Rob. All right. If anybody would like to invest with Rob and I, we are still raising you for a deal that we are doing. You can go to investwithdavidgreene.com or you could just shoot us a DM, credit investors only at this time, but if you\u2019re looking to make some money and you\u2019re just nervous about this market, you don\u2019t want to try to figure it out yourself. This is a great alternative, Marj, I want to thank you for being on the show and being such a good and compelling storyteller. This was a very good time. Is there anything you\u2019d like to leave our audience with before we get out of here?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
No. Come see us at Rocky Mountain Women Invest. Thank you guys so much for having me on the show.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. This is David Greene for Rob dancing with the devil in the pale Moonlight Abasolo signing off.<\/p>\n

David:
What was the name of that guy that was on the cover of all the romance novels.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, Fabio?<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
Fabio. Fabio.<\/p>\n

David:
Fabio. You could be a Fabio.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I don\u2019t think I could pull that off.<\/p>\n

David:
You are, man. You\u2019ve got this very, very Dos Equis most interesting man in the world presence.<\/p>\n

Marjorie:
You\u2019ve got the hair for it I think, too.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s right. Well, maybe I\u2019ll change my channel to Fabiobuilt.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, yeah. It\u2019s just Rob is so flat. It doesn\u2019t do you justice. That\u2019s just my opinion.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Hey, you know what? Your opinion is valid. We\u2019re all entitled to our opinions.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes, and you\u2019re entitled to change your name to something that fits whenever you see fit.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Hey, you can call me Fabio anytime you want. By the way, welcome to BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Marj, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. How are you?<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n


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If you want to invest in real estate, you\u2019re probably taking a safe, slow approach to building a rental property portfolio. As a real estate rookie, people tell you that the safest way to invest is to get good at one thing while keeping a distance from doing deals outside your comfort zone. While this […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":2484,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/REP-602_WEB.png","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2483","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2483","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2483"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2483\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2484"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2483"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2483"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2483"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}