{"id":2743,"date":"2022-05-26T10:53:07","date_gmt":"2022-05-26T10:53:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/?p=2743"},"modified":"2022-05-26T10:53:07","modified_gmt":"2022-05-26T10:53:07","slug":"the-cash-flow-boosting-businesses-that-savvy-real-estate-investors-own","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/2022\/05\/26\/the-cash-flow-boosting-businesses-that-savvy-real-estate-investors-own\/","title":{"rendered":"The Cash-Flow Boosting Businesses that Savvy Real Estate Investors Own"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

Knowing how to buy a business<\/strong><\/a> is a lot like knowing how to buy a rental property<\/strong><\/a>. First, you\u2019ll need to know the price of the asset, then the cash flow<\/strong>, followed by expenses, and finally the structure. Because buying real estate is perceived as \u201csimpler\u201d than buying a business, most investors decide to go the real estate route\u2014but they could be missing out<\/strong>. Codie Sanchez<\/a> saw this opportunity when she was working in venture capital<\/strong> and decided to try out the business buying route herself<\/strong>, just on a smaller scale.<\/p>\n

Codie can be perceived as your classic \u201cvalue-add\u201d investor<\/strong>, which much of the real estate investing community can relate to. She finds a business that has a strong foundation but lacks the tech or marketing to grow faster or increase its profits<\/strong>. When a business has a strong underlying value, just like a rental property, it\u2019s easier than most people think to \u201crenovate\u201d it into something that will sell for far higher.<\/p>\n

Codie stresses that buying businesses isn\u2019t so different from buying real estate<\/strong>. She also categorizes which businesses real estate investors should buy if they\u2019re looking to maximize <\/strong>their cash flow<\/strong><\/a> and minimize <\/strong>their expenses<\/strong>. With some help from Codie, you could be relying on much more than just rent checks soon!<\/p>\n

\n

David:
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast Show 614.<\/p>\n

Codie:
That\u2019s why I like to buy instead of build as much as possible. And people are all like this, because the secret is we\u2019re not that creative. Like venture capital startups and founders, they\u2019re super creative. They\u2019re coming up with the next Tesla. I don\u2019t have that in me, but I can definitely take a business that creates financial models online, give it a new website and upgrade, some pretty lipstick on the pig and this thing can be a lot more valuable than it is day one.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s going on everyone? I\u2019m David Green, your host of the BiggerPockets Podcast, the best real estate investing podcast in the world. I\u2019m joined today by my good friend and co-host, Rob Abasolo as we tackle a very interesting topic. It\u2019s how to make money in business that is related to real estate, not necessarily just real estate itself. Rob, so glad to see you today. How\u2019s your day going so far?<\/p>\n

Rob:
It is going really great because for the last week or so, I was a little bit down for the count. A little under the weather, had a throat infection of sorts and I\u2019m all healed. I went to the ENT, they did a procedure. They fixed me. I looked at my doc in the eyes and I cried and I said, \u201cMy wife and I will never be able to pay you back for this majesty that you\u2019ve done.\u201d I don\u2019t even know if that made sense, but I\u2019m feeling good. I guess I could have just said I feel good. I feel good.<\/p>\n

David:
I recommend you go follow Rob on Instagram at Rob Built and look at\u2026 Did you post the picture of the two vials of fluid that they took out of your throat?<\/p>\n

Rob:
No. No, I didn\u2019t want to do that to my\u2026 I let people message me and ask. I was like, \u201cIf you want to see this, message me and I\u2019ll send it.\u201d And I was thinking, oh, it\u2019ll be like three people. And it was literally like 50 people. They\u2019re like, well, I stopped after 50. I was like, \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore.\u201d But I feel a lot closer and more connected with my followers now. So that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, that\u2019s a pretty intimate thing to see what they pulled out of you. And all jokes aside, that must have been horrible to have that much pressure on your throat. You couldn\u2019t swallow, you couldn\u2019t talk, couldn\u2019t sleep.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. It felt like I was swallowing daggers. And then the actual procedure, you\u2019re just getting poked with needles and stuff and oh man, it was uncomfortable to say the least, but it was literally instant man. I was down for six days and then I went, soon as he did that, I was like, \u201cOh man, I have never felt so good in my life.\u201d And he was like, \u201cWell, take it easy.\u201d I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t have to, I\u2019m back. I\u2019m back, baby. I can podcast again.\u201d I was nervous we were going to have to postpone this.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, speaking of never having felt better, today\u2019s guest, Codie Sanchez, is an amazing business person who takes what she learned at Goldman Sachs and other private equity firms about buying businesses, evaluating businesses, analyzing businesses, and now practices that in her world. Now, Codie does own real estate and she often buys businesses involved in real estate, but she also buys and sells businesses that function like real estate. Meaning you look at it, you see what it cash flows, you see what the return on your equity would be, you see how much work it\u2019s going to be and then you go forward.
So in today\u2019s ever increasingly difficult market to find cash flowing properties, we brought you an alternative that is still related to real estate but not directly real estate if you\u2019re looking to increase your cash flow. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Well, Codie is like the queen of taking a very complicated, I don\u2019t know, idea such as buying a laundromat or buying a car wash or buying a SaaS product and then doing it 26 times and then explaining it to us and making it sound very, very easy and approachable because she talks about her different systems, the questions she asks like, who should I hire? What can I automate? What can I outsource? That type of thing. But she also gives us a really nice perspective on you shouldn\u2019t just be looking to acquire real estate, but maybe some of the companies that you\u2019re already paying, think about acquiring them as well.
So for example, if you own longterm or short-term real estate, maybe think about acquiring the property management company that\u2019s going to manage your real estate since you\u2019re already paying them anywhere from seven to 30% of your revenue, depending if it\u2019s on longterm or short-term. So I thought that was just a really nice, very clean perspective from her. And I honestly felt like we could do this. I\u2019m curious, I sort of want to go buy a bakery now.<\/p>\n

David:
Because you\u2019re always talking about-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Rob the baker.<\/p>\n

David:
Because of our baker\u2019s quadrant. So if anyone doesn\u2019t understand that-<\/p>\n

Rob:
[inaudible 00:04:27].<\/p>\n

David:
\u2026 joke, people refer to a baker\u2019s dozen meaning like 13 donuts. So the baker would throw in an extra one there to get you to come back for business. So a dozen is 12, a baker\u2019s dozen would be 13. Rob, and I have a way of looking at investment property like a matrix that we look at it through where there\u2019s five categories to it. We were trying to come up with a clever way of how we refer to five and quadrant has four. And so Rob came up with the baker\u2019s quadrant and that to this day is one of the funnier things that ever come up.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I feel that way about the baker\u2019s famous four because we asked the four questions and then the last one is like, \u201cLastly, where can people find out more about you?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, that\u2019s not technically a question, but it is a bonus.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s right. Okay. Today\u2019s quick tip before we get into the show, look for fax machines. You want to listen all the way to the end of the show because Codie talks about when she sees a fax machine, what that means to her and where she sees opportunity. Now, it doesn\u2019t have to be a fax machine, but there are many things you can look for in someone else\u2019s business that would indicate there\u2019s an opportunity there. And if you know what to look for, you\u2019re more likely to find it. So as you\u2019re going through your day, if you make up your mind that you\u2019d like to buy a business, figure out what the fax machines are in that business as the red flag that would dry you to that opportunity.
Same thing works with real estate. Same thing works at a lot of things in life. So you\u2019re going to have to listen all the way to the show for this quick tip to make sense, but please do because it\u2019s worth it. All right. Any last words before we get into the show, Rob?<\/p>\n

Rob:
No, man. Like I mentioned, I almost didn\u2019t make it today due to the sixth stuff, but I\u2019m so glad I didn\u2019t because I think a lot of people are going to leave this episode wanting to buy a bakery, I\u2019m calling it. I\u2019m calling it right now. We\u2019re going to have a lot of bakers, a lot of real estate bakers.<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s a bakery revolution. Codie Sanchez, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Thanks for having me.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So you are a very interesting business person as well as human being from our interactions so far. I\u2019m excited for today\u2019s show. Can you tell our audience what you do to make money?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Sure. I buy businesses, typically boring ones, things you wouldn\u2019t think about every day, like laundromats, car washes, video production companies. And then I cash flow off of them. Sort of like a bond instead of a stock. I don\u2019t buy companies that I think are always going to skyrocket. I buy a company doing a certain amount of profit, a certain amount of cash flow and then that I want to hold for a long time and continue to reap the rewards of it. So that\u2019s most of what I do. Then I also run a media company called Contrarian Thinking, where we talk about all this kind of jazz.<\/p>\n

David:
So it sounds like what you probably do is look for a business with some form of cash flow, much like real estate. You make an offer on it based off of its current cash flows but you see a way to add value to that business to increase it, which would also increase the value and then you have the opportunity to exit. Is that fair?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yep. That\u2019s right. It\u2019s sort of private equity 101, but this is called micro PE. So we do it on a little bit smaller scale and we don\u2019t always have to grow them actually. Sometimes we just want to own them.<\/p>\n

David:
Now, did you learn to think this way from investing in real estate? I know you own some real estate. Which came first, the businesses or the real estate?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, that\u2019s a good one. No, at least from an investment standpoint, I was investing in businesses first. So I did the traditional route of like Goldman Sachs and how do you know somebody worked there? They tell you immediately within meeting them. But like Wall Street, a bunch of different alternative investment managers and in the private equity sphere. So I\u2019ve done a lot of deals over my years. And I just saw that I was putting together these really big deals with some of my partners in varying PE firms or investment firms. And the main guys were taking home a ton of money and I sort of sat there thinking, wait a second, if they can do this for a hundred million dollar deal or a billion dollar deal, why can\u2019t I take the exact same process, maybe a little simplified and apply it on like a 50,000 or a 100k deal and then scale up from there?
And so that\u2019s what I started doing was just applying it, sort of in a real estate term, applying it on like maybe my first little tiny studio. And then I would go up to a one bedroom and then eventually I made my way to multi-family or industrial or whatever you want to call it.<\/p>\n

David:
You know what this sounds like is when we would interview, there was someone that was a CPA or they were a bookkeeper and they worked for a big firm and they said, \u201cMan, our wealthiest clients tend to own a bunch of real estate.\u201d And that\u2019s what got them wanting to get into it. It sounds like you were around people that were doing really big deals, pretty smart and weren\u2019t intimidated by the thought of buying a business and you watched what they did and said, \u201cHey, I could do too.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
Also, I want to point out too that you were like, \u201cI went the traditional route of-<\/p>\n

David:
Goldman Sachs.<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u2026 working at Goldman Sachs and we were putting together billion dollar businesses and a hundred million dollar deals.\u201d And I thought, why not do this on a smaller scale? Usually people start with the worrying businesses and maybe work their way up to something like that.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Well, I like using house money, man. I was actually scared on my first deal. If I had to go out right now and I had never bought a business and buy a business, put down my own capital or hell, get a loan on it, it sounds scary I think. I don\u2019t think it sounds as scary to get a mortgage on real estate. We\u2019ve sort of normalized it, but we haven\u2019t really normalized going to get a loan to buy a business with a personal guarantee on your assets. That\u2019s scary. But because I did it first with house money, even though they were bigger deals, I couldn\u2019t let\u2026 It\u2019s not like they were like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m going to take your salary, Codie, if this deal goes sideways.\u201d
I was like, \u201cMaybe I could get fired, but I couldn\u2019t lose everything.\u201d And so that\u2019s what I think, maybe not that scared about it. And that\u2019s why we talk about it a lot publicly because I had one CEO who told me, \u201cWe get rich quietly here, Codie. We get rich quietly.\u201d And I was like, \u201cI think other people should know about this and now I can\u2019t shut up about it.\u201d And if you guys follow me on Twitter, apologies, you already know that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Can confirm, can confirm. I follow you on all of them, Codie. You\u2019re very active on all the social medias. So I have a question here. When you\u2019re evaluating these deals, obviously there\u2019s like a very specific way to evaluate a real estate deal. If you\u2019re looking at an Airbnb or a multifamily, you\u2019re looking at things like cap rate, cash on cash return, there\u2019s a lot of kind of standard procedures when you\u2019re looking at an Airbnb, for example. If you\u2019re looking at buying a car wash or a laundromat or something like that, is it the same scope of procedure? Are you looking at it the same way that you would any typical real estate deal? How does that differ?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, there\u2019s probably just slightly different terms depending on if it has real estate involved in it too. Lots of people use cash on cash return. So that\u2019s pretty similar. Most people think about valuing a business on a multiple of profit level. So if I make 100k, I want to buy a business for anywhere from, let\u2019s call it two to 7x, my 100k. So for 200 to 700,000. So those are sort of some of the main ways. Typically though, when I think about a deal, because businesses can cash flow more than real estate on the total amount that you put down or the total amount you buy the business for, I\u2019m really more interested in, can this deal make me X amount of money that is worth my annoyance that running any business or buying any business or doing any real estate deal is going to do?
And so I usually think about it like, I need a deal to cash flow me at least a 100k for me to want to do it. In the beginning, that might have been like, I need a deal to make me 2K a month and that would be enough. So you can kind of figure it out this way. In real estate, I think a lot of times, yeah, you want the rent and certainly in Airbnb, you guys do really well, but oftentimes you want the appreciation too. I really just want the cash flow in my deals and I think of the appreciation as like the extra sprinkles on top.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Actually, that was kind of something I was interested in knowing more about too. Let\u2019s say you buy a car wash, you\u2019re obviously buying that business, but you\u2019re also buying the lot in all of the materials and all the structures and all that stuff too, right?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Typically, yeah. So for a car wash, you would. So that\u2019s a pretty real estate or asset heavy business. A laundromat, for instance, you wouldn\u2019t, you just want to lock in like a 10 or 12 year lease, a long lease because they\u2019re expensive to build out. Most of my businesses, you wouldn\u2019t own like real estate on them or you wouldn\u2019t have to. You might own equipment like trucks or tools or machines. But I would say, like the asset heavy ones are things that blur the line like mobile home parks, car washes, RV parks, things that are pretty asset heavy as opposed to most of the businesses, you don\u2019t have to buy the real estate.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So on some of these you\u2019re literally buying the business and then it\u2019s just, you\u2019re leasing out the real estate, but you have no association with the actual building that it\u2019s in?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, that\u2019s exactly right. I have a couple friends and I\u2019m sure you guys do that own commercial buildings. I don\u2019t own any commercial buildings actually, but that own commercial buildings inside of them have seen sort of the profits that come from X, Y, Z company. And so then acquire some of those underlying companies as well or a percentage of them. So I think that\u2019s interesting. I might do that if I already owned a commercial building. Basically say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m just going to also own the laundromat that\u2019s in here as supposed to just get the rent from it.\u201d And I might do that for multiple sites or maybe I want to own the, I don\u2019t know, nail salon in there because I have a good operator that might run it.\u201d I like owning those little type of businesses too.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s exactly what I started thinking when you were describing this. That\u2019s the perfect marriage is you buy a commercial building, one of your tenants is going into financial trouble. They\u2019re struggling. You see they don\u2019t have enough capital or they\u2019re not managing things well. There\u2019s some problem that you feel confident you can solve. You go in there and you buy their business at a discount and then you manage it. Is that more or less kind of the approach you\u2019re taking?<\/p>\n

Codie:
So that\u2019s called a turnaround in my world and I actually think you should never do a turnaround for your first deal. And I think you and Rob could do it obviously because you\u2019ve done a bunch of deals. You run a business like this one is. But for most people, I don\u2019t like to buy other people\u2019s problems. I\u2019m like, I want to buy the nice-ish house on the nice-ish block. I don\u2019t want to flip for my first one. I don\u2019t want to fix because there\u2019s enough margin in buying businesses that you don\u2019t have to think about value add right away.
I actually think that\u2019s one of the things that\u2019s most dangerous if you do it is don\u2019t try to go in and fix something. Because here\u2019s the truth. There\u2019s 2.4 to 2.5 million businesses for sale right now in the US today. Only one out of 12 businesses listed, publicly listed in the US will sell within any 12 month period. Imagine that in real estate that just, it doesn\u2019t happen. That would be wild. If you were on a street, there are 12 houses for sale and only one of them sold, not going to happen. So there\u2019s so many good small businesses, especially sub, let\u2019s call it a million dollars in EBITDA or a million dollars in profit that I think what you should actually do is go out and buy like a kind of normal business. And you can do some value add on top of it but not a ton.
So let\u2019s say, for instance, you own a commercial strip mall or something. Instead of you having to go fix a business, maybe you\u2019ve just had that building for 10 years and you know that most business owners, something like, it\u2019s a wild number, 80% of small businesses in the US that are for sale right now are held by baby boomers. And 50% of all small businesses in the US are held by baby boomers that are nearing or at retirement age. So there\u2019s something like five trillion dollars in assets that are going to transfer from these small businesses to other people.
So you might just have like Dave\u2019s, I don\u2019t know laundromat. I need to use a different example because I don\u2019t always think laundromats are the best deals.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Dave\u2019s Hot Chicken.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Okay. Nope. Not restaurants. We don\u2019t like restaurants.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Okay. No restaurants. Dave\u2019s-<\/p>\n

Codie:
No Chipotle.<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u2026 Car Washing.<\/p>\n

Codie:
There we go.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Dang it.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Dave\u2019s Equipment Rental. I like that business. Dave\u2019s Equipment Rental business, it\u2019s in your commercial thing and the guy\u2019s like 65, 70. He\u2019s ready to retire. He\u2019s a great tenant. They pay on time. You kind of see how he runs the business. It seems to be fine. You want to talk to that guy and just ask him, \u201cDo you have a plan? Does your son want to play video games on Twitch all day or does your daughter want to be on TikTok instead of run your business? I could buy you instead. You know me, we\u2019ve known each other for years and I\u2019ll run this business on a go forward basis.\u201d That would be the deal I would look for.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Man. That\u2019s super interesting. So I think you mentioned this before, not on the podcast, but isn\u2019t there like a wild amount of people that are just going to close down their business and not even sell it just because they don\u2019t know that they can sell it?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Everybody always says, and I\u2019m sure people say this on the podcast. They are like, \u201cThe business is profitable. Why would anybody sell it? This never happens. People all get all up in arms when I share my deal details.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh yeah. TikTok comments.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh yeah. I know it\u2019s what you call it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Why wouldn\u2019t the owner just keep it for themselves? [inaudible 00:17:14] you want to call it.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Exactly. You\u2019re like, \u201cDo you keep every house that you\u2019ve ever owned for yourself even though almost every house has appreciated over the last 20 years?\u201d Probably not. Same thing. But these business owners, why I started is I have an uncle, uncle Eb, who\u2019s since passed, but he owned a plumbing company. And why I started talking about this more publicly or thought it might be interesting maybe, maybe I thought people had thought, I think it was boring was because he had a business that was doing five million dollars in revenue and about two to three million dollars profit. And he had run this business called E B Holmes Plumbing Contracting in Phoenix, Arizona for like, oh you could look it up. It was like 12 years, 15 years, 25 years, a long time.
And basically he started getting a little sick, was looking to retire. He was in his 70s and instead of selling the business because he had no idea you could do that, he didn\u2019t have a college degree. I was too young at the time to really understand this. He wound down the business. So he had an asset that was doing two to three million profit, which means he could have sold it for like six to nine million dollars and he just shut the business down. And that happens every day.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s crazy.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. So here\u2019s what\u2019s popping in my head. And you know what, I\u2019m going to give you an example of what I see happening all the time. And then Dr. Codie, I\u2019d like it if you could give me the prescription for this. I and many people I know, many of them work on my team. So they\u2019re entrepreneurial minded. They\u2019re people that like Rob and I, Brandon and I. They\u2019re drawn to ways to make money. They\u2019re not afraid of hard work and they see the value of, we\u2019re going to call it passive income even though owning a business isn\u2019t passive and owning real estate isn\u2019t truly passive, but it\u2019s not directly tied to getting paid per their time.
It\u2019s more getting paid for their ability to make solutions. I think many of our listeners are like that. So that when they\u2019re in real estate, they\u2019re like, \u201cI want to buy that house and that house and that house.\u201d And they try to figure out a way to force that deal, that square peg through that round hole. And it very rarely works out. Well in business, I see it can work out. But then what happens is you\u2019ve got six different businesses you own and you\u2019re the only person trying to do it all. And you\u2019re frantically running from one thing to the next.
To me, it feels like you\u2019re in a submarine and there\u2019s a hole and you stick your finger in the hole like in the cartoons. And then another one pops out over here and now you\u2019re sticking a finger there. And then you\u2019re sticking a toe over here. And then you\u2019re taking a finger out of this one to put it in that one and then the water hits you there. That\u2019s what it\u2019s like when you\u2019re running multiple businesses. And what you realize is I need more fingers. I need other people to sit here and help. And then you try. And then those people instead of plugging the hole or texting on their phone or they\u2019re doing their own thing and you realize, it is freaking hard to find people to help me do this.
And then you\u2019re discouraged because you feel like a failure. You don\u2019t want to tell everybody because you probably [inaudible 00:19:50] on Instagram, tell them about this business that you own. You want to be a big deal and then you\u2019re just getting stressed out and you hate your life and you\u2019re going to bed with anxiety. It could quickly overwhelm you. And I don\u2019t know many people that figure a way out of that. So is the problem that they shouldn\u2019t have jumped in? Is there a approach that you like to take so you avoid that? Do you have a skillset other people need to build? How do you solve that problem of, I own all these businesses but I\u2019m the only one that is doing all the work?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Well, one, I would say the most important thing is you need to buy a business that has enough profit for you to put an operator in if you don\u2019t want to run the business overall. So if you are not going to be the one plugging the holes in your business, then you need to have, let\u2019s call it, at least 100K that you can outsource part of the operations of the business to somebody else. And I like to have at least 100K because right around 100K, you can start to hire somebody really good who you can incentivize with equity on the way up or with revenue share or profit share.
And that person will help you plug those holes because they think of themselves as the CEO of the company. They\u2019re operating it. And then you just have to do really good on your hiring. And what is annoying, I think is with all the whole plugging, that\u2019s usually when you have sort of executioners, people who just execute on tasks as opposed to somebody who operates and thinks about the business from the highest level. And so that\u2019s what you want. I sort of recommend that everybody mess around and get their hands a little bit dirty for their first deal in buying a business.
Because if you\u2019ve never led a team before or you\u2019ve never run a business, how are you going to know if you have a good operator or not? I think that\u2019s really hard to do. So that\u2019s what I would say is first thing, make sure you have enough profit to layer somebody on top of it. And then to your point, there\u2019s two ways to play this game, decentralized leadership, which basically means you do a ton of work up front to hire the right kind of people and you put systems in place to monitor them. But mostly it is a ton. It\u2019s like a colonoscopy to start followed by at the end, this person is massively trusted.
You\u2019re not watching their every move. You\u2019re not micromanaging them because you did a lot of the upfront work and now you just have systems in place with KPIs to make sure that they\u2019re still running the company well, option one. Option two would be, you have a process whereby you have your hands involved in a lot of oversight. And that I think is where people get stressed out. Like my businesses by and large do not call me. And instead of calling me, they would call the COO who sort of runs the operations. I have now only two. I used to have three businesses I was actively involved in and now there are only two businesses that really take up my time during the day.
The rest of those businesses are like bonds. I don\u2019t call to check if AT&T is going to pay me the right amount each month, they just pay me the right amount. Then that comes with hiring right and structuring the deal right in my opinion.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I think you said a lot of good stuff there because a lot of people, they either want to get into a business or get into an establishing business like let\u2019s say real estate, but they don\u2019t want to work. And I understand that. But I also think that you have to earn your right to not work. And so I get a lot of people, like students of mine that want to start Airbnbs and they just want to go straight to a property management company. They want to hire someone to set it up. They want to hire someone for every aspect of it. And I\u2019m like, \u201cDude, you haven\u2019t done this yet. You need to learn how to fail several times and you need to fall on your face and you need to understand what it is to manage it, to deal with cranky guests, to deal with water leaks.
You need to do that for at least three months before you go and hire it out and pass it on because how can you communicate with the people that are running your business if you don\u2019t even know how your business runs? So I like that you said that you should get your hands dirty because I think that\u2019s pretty applicable to pretty much every facet of real estate.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, I totally agree. The other thing is, quite honestly, I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s something about real estate and business is less I think because people know that there\u2019s lots of levers you can pull. In businesses, there\u2019s not as many levers you can pull to make changes good or bad or in real estate, I don\u2019t know, correct me if I\u2019m wrong, you guys know more about it than I do. But for some reason, I find sometimes real estate attracts people who are like, \u201cWell, I just buy this thing and then I cash flow on it and that\u2019s it. And then I never have to do anything again.\u201d And I just think first of all-<\/p>\n

Rob:
I sit on a beach.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. I think that\u2019s-<\/p>\n

Rob:
I buy it and I sit on a beach.<\/p>\n

Codie:
No, I think it\u2019s so boring. You\u2019d get so bored and you\u2019re going to be boring because nobody wants to talk to somebody who does nothing all day. And so I actually think people don\u2019t really want that. They just think they want it because they hate what they do. But then when you like what you do, I couldn\u2019t pry you out of Airbnb some way, Rob, out of your cold dead fingers, you would be fighting me because you like what you do.<\/p>\n

David:
I just had a very deep conversation with the COO of the David Green team yesterday about this topic. Codie, it\u2019s funny you bring it up. So I realized about myself, I was a police officer. I liked the job. I did not like having to work 20 hours a day. Never having a social life, not being able to be fit, never sleeping. You can\u2019t really have a family and have a good quality of life because your days off are Tuesday, Wednesday. It\u2019s just, it\u2019s hard. I was kind of sold this dream that you buy some real estate and then you never have to work again. Your tenants will fund your life and you\u2019re going to travel, go on boats, sit on the beach. Just walk around with your chin up because I made it. I worked really hard for three years and I\u2019m done.
And that seeped into my mind. I think it came from a lot of places, but overall it\u2019s usually a dream you\u2019re being sold as opposed to a reality because when we buy it\u2019s a reality. And that\u2019s what marketing is, it\u2019s to make things look better than they are. When we take pictures of listings, we don\u2019t show the bad part. You make the house look great. And so I started the David Green team and I figured out how to hire people. It was horribly hard. I got a system going where I had good agents. It became profitable and I thought I\u2019m done. I\u2019m just going to coast into the sunset.
And every time a problem happened that pulled me back in, I was resentful. In my head, I was like, \u201cWhy should I have to deal with this? I\u2019m supposed to be over it.\u201d But what I noticed was when you stop paying attention to an organization like that, they were drawn because of me. Your best people are like, \u201cWell, David\u2019s not really around. I\u2019m not really getting the leadership. I\u2019m not growing the way I thought. I\u2019m going to leave.\u201d Now, you got to jump back in because a really good person left or the person who is running it still sort of needs your mentorship unless they\u2019ve done this before.
It\u2019s hard to put on your resume, I ran a real estate team. There\u2019s no college degree you get for that. So you kind of have to grow them from the ground up. And when they would need something and they could tell I was resentful, they didn\u2019t want to reach out. And that\u2019s been the case with every business I\u2019ve had. I don\u2019t have to do everything, but if you just completely turn your back on it, rental properties as well, they fall apart. Your property manager is trying to do the bare minimum that they have to to keep a check coming for themselves. They are never going to be as involved in your property as you would want to be.
And so I came to this epiphany that it was stupid for me to think I was never going to have to work because I made one or two good decisions. What I got was a better type of work. I\u2019m not working 20 hour days. I can wake up when I want to. I can work from the gym. I can work from vacation. I can work with creative elements of my mind that are fun that release dopamine. I get growth. I\u2019m not just stuck in a factory punching some metal like M&M and 8 Mile for the rest of my life. You\u2019re not breaking your body.
There\u2019s a lot of benefits to why to do this, but it\u2019s not you\u2019re just done working. And even if you bought a bunch of rental properties and made a hundred grand a month, you still got to pay attention to what\u2019s happening in them. There\u2019s still a form of work. You\u2019re still going to have to solve problems. And when I accepted that life doesn\u2019t work this way where you just do nothing but you can definitely do better, I got happy again. The resentment went away. I was excited like you\u2019re saying. This became fun. I started like, \u201cOoh, that\u2019s a really good person. I\u2019m excited to help change their life and I want to see them grow.\u201d
And you start thinking of things just like what you were saying. But there was this block that my expectation was ridiculous. It\u2019s probably like if you\u2019re married and you think, once I get married, I\u2019m done. I don\u2019t have to work anymore. Now I\u2019m in a longterm relationship, I can let myself go. I don\u2019t have to pursue this. It\u2019s probably the opposite. You\u2019re going to work in that relationship, but it should be work you enjoy because you like the person. Is that similar to the approach that you\u2019ve seen?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, totally. I think it\u2019s two sides. What I\u2019ve noticed is yes, I would be super bored if I did nothing. And so I think your reframe of, hey, every chance that I have to engage in this is actually kind of an opportunity is super important. There are some businesses. So I\u2019ve had businesses kind of like the ones you talked about that really require a lot for me. I just sold one. I signed the deal yesterday actually, because it was too much, actually. It was like exactly what you talked about. It was not enough money for me. And then the guy wanted a lot from me. And so I basically said, \u201cI\u2019m out, you can buy me out or somebody else can, but we\u2019re going to sell this side of the business.\u201d
The flip side of that though is I found when you have really good operators and their incentive aligned, humans are like Pavlov\u2019s dog. If you ring a bell and every time you ring a bell, you get a treat, it turns out like when we ring the bell, you start to salivate. That\u2019s like what Pavlov basically taught us. And so I think it\u2019s the same with operators and with people who run your business, you just have to do a ton of work to make sure that your property rental\u2026 So for instance, we have a property management company and we own a bunch of, not a bunch. We own some Airbnbs and they get a cut.
They get a cut of the rent or the total income just like most property managers do, but they also get a kind of cut of the overall portfolio. And they get an opportunity for us to put up capital and them to do new deals and them to get equity in those deals if they find the deals. And I learned this from my other friend, Alex, who runs the same thing and now has a commercial loan on his portfolio. And this guy who runs it is more like a CEO than just running a few properties as property manager. So I actually think the key is really finding good people that are better than you.
Like if he brought me in to run this property management company, I would be a mess. Definitely the business would not work because he\u2019s better than me. He\u2019s incentive aligned and he wants to keep making money and seeing this grow because the bell rings and the treat is there every time.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. That\u2019s such a powerful part of motivating people. I think one mistake that we make in business is we assume everyone\u2019s motivated by the same things as we are, and that\u2019s not the case. And the other part is you assume people\u2026 You underestimate the value of motivation. Like what you said is the condition, like when the bell rings, the dog salivates because it knows it wants food. It\u2019s hard if you make someone delay gratification for too long. If you\u2019re like just work and slave away and in five years, this will pay off, but they\u2019re not seeing the milestones, they\u2019re not getting that hit of like, ooh, we made progress.
Most human beings are not like us that are just going to grind away until we get there. You have to set it up to where\u2026 Have you noticed that as well?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, yeah. 100%. But I forget it all the time, to your point. I talk about all this, like yeah, I get it. But my usual sort of treat that I hand out is cash, right? I\u2019m like, \u201cHey, if you make this much, here\u2019s how the sort of milestones going to kick in and you\u2019re going to make this bonus or X and X if Y happens.\u201d And then I forget some people just want to go home at 5:00 every day and not have me slack them 24 hours a day. Then other people just really like what they do and want to make a good amount and don\u2019t want to be scared that they\u2019re going to lose their job.
And so I make everybody do those disk things. Not for them as much. It\u2019s for me, it\u2019s because I need to understand this other type of human that isn\u2019t just a total animal nonstop obsessing about business.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. I think you do that, right Dave? Don\u2019t don\u2019t you make everyone take DiSC tests too?<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m a huge DiSC believer. To me that was the Rosetta Stone that helped me understand why every human being frustrated me all the time is I did not know that I am a very rare profile and my communication style, it\u2019s not like everybody else\u2019s. And when I figured that out and I learned how to talk in their way, all of a sudden they liked me, we got along way better. Our relationship improved. Before that I was like, \u201cWhy is only 9% of the population get it and nobody else does?\u201d<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. You probably intimidate them too. You\u2019re a big jujitsu doing dude. So add that. I don\u2019t think you\u2019re a wallflower, Dave. I imagine you come out a little strong. Huh?<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s what I\u2019m told. I probably hear four times a week I\u2019m intimidating. And I\u2019m always like, \u201cWhy? What did I do that was intimidating? But they\u2019re too intimidated to tell me. So I still haven\u2019t figured that out.<\/p>\n

Codie:
20 years as a cop will probably do it too or however long you said.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. I actually wrote an article about the DiSC profile on BiggerPockets. So if people search the blog, they can see an article about what we\u2019re referring to. I\u2019m curious, Codie, what are you? What\u2019s your setup?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh God, that\u2019s really good. This shows a lack of self-reflection. So my profile, I don\u2019t remember what I am. What\u2019s the other profile? That\u2019s like the-<\/p>\n

David:
Myers Briggs.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Myers Briggs, a 16-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Enneagram?<\/p>\n

Codie:
No, I don\u2019t remember that one either. The 16 personalities one, I\u2019m not a commander, that\u2019s my husband. This is going to be a really great answer. I can\u2019t remember.<\/p>\n

David:
I think you\u2019re a high D. Because a high D wouldn\u2019t care-<\/p>\n

Codie:
What\u2019s D again?<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s the decisiveness. They make decisions really quickly. They\u2019re comfortable in situations they haven\u2019t been before.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yes. Yes. I\u2019m that one, Dave.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, because a D wouldn\u2019t really care what the DiSC says. It\u2019s too busy making money and making decisions to stop to. But you recognize you need to know for how you communicate with others because you\u2019re a leader. And that typically ends up being\u2026 Ds usually end up in the leadership positions.<\/p>\n

Codie:
That makes sense.<\/p>\n

David:
So a quick rundown is Ds are very comfortable making decisions when they haven\u2019t been in that environment before. They\u2019re very decisive. Eyes are very interactive. Like Rob would have a very high I. They like people.<\/p>\n

Rob:
[inaudible 00:33:57].<\/p>\n

David:
They\u2019re likable. They\u2019re the most popular people in high school. The social butterflies.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Stop. Stop. Stop.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. That\u2019s it. That\u2019s an I. Right? You want to get an I to like you if you compliment them on something or they can tell you like them, oh my God, they love you. If they think they\u2019re not liked, they don\u2019t know what to do. It\u2019s really unsettling. Ss are your stable score. This is the pace that you like to live life at. They don\u2019t like surprises. They hate change. They like predictability. They get the same thing every morning for breakfast. They want to come in the office. If something changes, the first thing they say is, \u201cBut I thought we were going to do this.\u201d They\u2019re like the hardest to get along with Ds like me or the Ss because we change everything like, \u201cThis is better. Let\u2019s switch it.\u201d
And then they\u2019re like, \u201cWell wait, wait, wait. I thought we were going to do something else.\u201d And Cs are your conscientious score. This is your architects, your engineers, your lawyers, your doctors, the people that like everything needs to be perfect. They\u2019re really good with spreadsheets and data and analysis.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Hmm. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. First glance I\u2019m like definitely an I I think.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. I think you\u2019re an IC because you\u2019re also very good with detail. You catch a lot of detail in a lot of different scenarios.<\/p>\n

Rob:
It\u2019s not that I want to, it\u2019s like I would rather hire someone or have someone on my team that\u2019s good at the details because I really run free when I\u2019m not having to be the one keeping track or keeping notes or keeping score. I just kind want to run with ideas. But as you grow and you\u2019re wealthier portfolio, your business, you kind of have to start being more organized or else you\u2019re going to stop making money and you\u2019re going to start losing money. So I\u2019m kind of at that point where I\u2019m like, Ugh. So I\u2019ve hired people appropriately to help me with that I think.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. I think the hard part is for me, well, I just showed you guys, but I have a really bad memory. And so what I\u2019ve realized is we have to have processes and procedures for everything. Otherwise, if you\u2019re running a lot of businesses, you\u2019re going to forget it. And so I\u2019m really not very detail oriented at all and I have to hire for that constantly. Like my first hire is almost always a COO for any business or at least a chief of staff because I need somebody who\u2019s the opposite of me.
Don\u2019t worry about bringing in the sales, don\u2019t worry about fundraising, don\u2019t worry about the growth plan overall or hiring people, but do worry about making sure that we pay payroll at 12 o\u2019clock on a Friday every week. So yeah, I think it\u2019s really important for sure.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So yeah, I guess I wanted to dive into that a little bit because I know you\u2019ve bought 26 businesses, you mentioned, which is a lot. And from that you\u2019ve sort of have baked your philosophy or your POV on this down to three questions that everyone should be asking when they\u2019re buying these businesses. Is that about right?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Actually my executive coach told me these. It really comes down to not just buying businesses whenever you have a problem. I basically ask myself, \u201cWho can I\u2026\u201d Instead of saying\u2026 Have you guys read the book, Who Not How?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Read it? I own it. But no, I haven\u2019t read it yet.<\/p>\n

Codie:
I was going to say, is that better or worse? So none of these ideas are new or uniquely mine, but this Who Not How I think is an incredible\u2026 It\u2019s a listen, you don\u2019t actually have to read the book. I would recommend audio. But basically every time that I have a problem, I come into asking myself instead of how do I tackle this problem? I say like, \u201cWho can I hire? How can I outsource this problem or individual issue? Who can I delegate to on this instead?\u201d And I also ask myself, \u201cCan I buy it instead of build it?\u201d
And so we have these series of questions that I\u2019m always asking myself, instead of how can I do this, it\u2019s, can I buy it? Can somebody else run this business for me? Can I delegate this task instead? And I kind of go back and forth between those three or four questions almost every time.<\/p>\n

David:
We interviewed the author of that book, Benjamin Hardy on episode 425, if people would like to listen.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Man, you looked that up really fast.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s my high D nature. Things have to get done quick.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So we\u2019ve talked about who to hire, I guess let\u2019s talk about what can I buy or can I buy it? Because I know that\u2019s something you and I have talked about several times where I\u2019m like, \u201cMan, I want to just go and build this.\u201d And you\u2019re like, \u201cWell, can you just go and just buy something that even if it\u2019s not nearly as good as what you want it to be, that you can make work?\u201d So is there a reason here? I know there is, but what\u2019s your personal reason for always just buying something that may not be working. And is it because of the value add component that you can add to increase the value of your business?<\/p>\n

Codie:
I think I just don\u2019t really like risk. So if I can buy a business, I already know that I\u2019m operating with some level of profit or cash flow. And so people might think it\u2019s risky to buy a business, but I actually think it\u2019s much less risky because if I build something, I\u2019ve got to put a bunch of money down on hopes of future dreams, right? I suppose it\u2019s the same with real estate. It\u2019s like, no, I\u2019d rather buy this house that\u2019s done. I could build it, which could mean that it\u2019s cheaper, let\u2019s say to do it, but it\u2019s going to take a long time and maybe I don\u2019t have all the expertise on it. And it\u2019s the same for a business.
So like for instance, I want to own a bunch of financial models and tools for our main business, Contrarian Thinking. That\u2019s the one that I play with the most these days where we basically go and we talk about how to become financially free, free in your mind, free in your bank account. And I want to own a bunch of models. So basically, here\u2019s a due diligence checklist. Here\u2019s a mobile home park model. And I would like to build out this suite of products. And so I was starting to think about, okay, well, I\u2019m going to hire a bunch of my ex analysts. I\u2019m going to have them build out a bunch of these models because I don\u2019t want to do it all.
And then I\u2019m going to put it here and we\u2019re going to have this marketplace of stuff people could pick from. And then I was like, \u201cWait a second, there has to be some terrible website located on the internet that\u2019s built in the \u201980s that\u2019s full of financial models. Those don\u2019t actually change that much. We could slightly tweak them. Why don\u2019t I just buy this business?\u201d So I started reaching out to a bunch. I looked up this one company, I think it\u2019s called E Financial Models, creative name, terrible website, terrible UI\/UX. They wouldn\u2019t let me buy it.
He\u2019s based in Zurich, but if you\u2019re listening, still interested, but then I found another business that\u2019s similar to it. And it would cost me in time and hours probably, I don\u2019t know, 100K in a couple months to build out what I want to build. And I think I\u2019ll be able to buy this business for maybe 200K. So you save me three to six months on it. I pay a premium of like two, let\u2019s say 2X on the business, but it\u2019s rocking and rolling day one and it already has income coming in to start profiting off of. So that\u2019s why I like to buy instead of build as much as possible.
And PE people are all like this, because the secret is we\u2019re not that creative. Venture capital startups and founders, they\u2019re super creative. They\u2019re coming up with the next Tesla. I don\u2019t have that in me, but I can definitely take a business that creates financial models online, give it a new website and upgrade, some pretty lipstick on the pig and this thing can be a lot more valuable than it is day one.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So on that financial modeling business, are you actually planning to cash flow on that business or is that just like a value add that\u2019s going to be part of the Contrarian Thinking brand?<\/p>\n

Codie:
No, I\u2019m going to cash flow on it. So this gets to the point where I guess we could talk about ecosystem or satellite businesses. So in my land, if we think about Contrarian Thinking, it\u2019s a media company similar to BiggerPockets, right? Much smaller scale. But I don\u2019t know if you\u2026 Dave, have you guys ever grown through acquisition at BiggerPockets? I know acquisition of real estate obviously, but anything media related?<\/p>\n

David:
I believe in general, it\u2019s typically in-house organic.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. So I like to not do that as much as possible. It\u2019s taken us a year and a half to build a 100k newsletter list. We have like 1.5 million social followers across the platform. That\u2019s pretty fast growth, but some of that\u2019s like, you can\u2019t make that happen. You have to get lucky, you got to get viral, whatever. And so for Contrarian Thinking, we have this main newsletter business and this media around it, which is just social media and I\u2019m trying to figure out, I want to own the entire ecosystem of small businesses. So when people think boring businesses, small businesses, I want them to think Codie Sanchez, Contrarian Thinking.
And the reason that I\u2019m building a big social following is because I\u2019m going to buy all the companies on the periphery that people are interested in if they\u2019re investors in this space. So I\u2019m going to buy this marketplace because then I have every financial model you could ever want to analyze any small business and I\u2019ll charge you some percentage on them. I might even allow people to upload their own financial models and then I\u2019ll just take a cut and then I wouldn\u2019t have to keep uploading them. Somebody else could do that for me and I\u2019ll become more of a third party marketplace as opposed to my own.
I also want to buy\u2026 Well, I think we just might have closed this yesterday. We\u2019ll see once I get back to the email here. We\u2019re buying like a chat bot service for small and medium businesses. It\u2019s a business that\u2019s been around for 25 years. And basically it\u2019s like say you have a locksmith issue and you\u2019re trying to get a locksmith at 2:00 in the morning. This could be like a real human that would respond to you and say, \u201cOh yeah, great. We\u2019re going to connect you to Greg.\u201d Whatever, sends Greg over there. It\u2019s a customer service tool. And so I want to buy that company and stick it into my ecosystem.
And if I owned a bunch of real estate, I\u2019d want to do the same thing. I\u2019d want to buy companies surrounding my real estate so that I could increase my revenue and profits and diversify in non-recession or in recession resistant asset classes.<\/p>\n

David:
Let\u2019s say there\u2019s a real estate investor who\u2019s doing pretty good with real estate investing or they\u2026 Maybe I could say it like this. A lot of people get into real estate investing because they think it\u2019s going to be passive income. And once they get there, they realize to be good at this still takes a skill. Now some people are good with bookkeeping. Some people are good with operations. Some people are great at negotiating. Others find the deals. So whatever your natural skills are, they show up in this world. This isn\u2019t just a cookie cutter type of investment like buying a stock.
So I feel like there\u2019s a lot of human beings that will get pretty good at this but will realize, you know what? I don\u2019t want to have to keep doing this element of the business. I really like this one. Those people will be naturally drawn to owning a business that sort of focuses in that area. What are some ancillary businesses that you think that real estate investors could look into buying to help supercharge their own business and increase cash flow?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Well, we have a group called Unconventional Acquisitions, and there were, I would say there were like 10 or 12 guys that started who were all real estate guys. One\u2019s name is Lloyd and he owned a bunch of multifamily units. I think it\u2019s in South Carolina, somewhere where there\u2019s a lot of weather basically and was having to do a lot of roofing repairs continuously to his relatively large portfolio of multifamilies. And so anyway, so he started talking to us about, how do you do this? And we were like, \u201cWell, I\u2019d like to do something called a personal P&L review.\u201d
So basically I say, for yourself personally, where do you spend money every single month? Sort of track any of those businesses that are small enough for you to get to the CEO. And then for your business, do the same thing. Where does your money go? What are the owners that you could actually get to out of your P&L? And so he was like, \u201cGod, I\u2019m spending a ton of money on roof maintenance a year.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cWhy don\u2019t I reach out to this guy and see if he\u2019ll let me buy his business.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOkay, definitely could do that. But Lloyd, you\u2019ve told me before you don\u2019t want to work a ton more and you don\u2019t want to operate this business.\u201d
And he was like, \u201cYes, both of those things are true.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay. So instead, why don\u2019t you reach out to this guy and say, \u2018Hey, I calculated that I give you, I don\u2019t know, $200,000 a year in revenue from my properties. I also have friends that have properties of X, which would equate to Y of total revenue for your business. What I\u2019d like to do is I\u2019m going to buy a roofing company. It could be yours, it could be somebody else\u2019s and I could buy one outright or I could invest in yours. And I could invest in yours on a discounted term because I\u2019m already giving you $200,000 in revenue and I could bring you these additional people.
So I\u2019ll put some money on the table, but also give me an earn out for all of the new business that I bring to you and a discount for all the business that I already have with you.’\u201d And so he did that and now he owns part of the roofing company without having to run it. So that would be a lazier person\u2019s way to do a deal like this. And the only thing you want to make sure of is that you\u2019re able to track the financials. I require that I can see into the financials or my CFO can see into the financials of all the businesses we own a certain percentage of so I make sure nobody\u2019s skimming off the top. I\u2019m sure they still are, but not too badly.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. That\u2019s actually really smart. And I think you even mentioned this earlier about you kind of own your own property management company. And that is starting to make a lot more sense to me where I am starting to hire more people in the Airbnb businesses like interior designers or property managers. This is a whole rabbit hole we can go down towards, but it\u2019s starting to make a lot more sense to just absorb, not necessarily companies, but freelancers that have their own business in becoming like, it sounds sort of like what this guy\u2019s doing, like a super affiliate where you do own part of it but you\u2019re the one that\u2019s fueling all the leads that come into that business. And thus you get a payout from that. Is that sort of what this roofing company is?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. I call it a rev share acquisition. So basically you buy something meaningful to you, 30 to 40% of a business, let\u2019s say, and you buy it through the revenue that you\u2019re already giving the business and through because you have a giant marketing bullhorn in your industry through your additional distribution. And usually for small businesses, what is the one thing most small businesses are bad at? It\u2019s usually sales. Distribution is always a major pain point. So you can get access to a business sort of two ways without giving capital. One would be get them more customers so they\u2019ll give you a percentage of the business for the additional revenue or help them cut costs.
Helping them cut costs is I think never as fun and it\u2019s sometimes harder to do. So I like, if I\u2019m going to do a rev share deal with the business, I\u2019ll do it based on how much business I could bring in with them. We just did a deal the other week where we\u2019re investing as, we\u2019re not a majority investor, but a minority investor in a company and they are raising capital and we wanted to be meaningful in it. But the level that they\u2019re raising capital at, the valuation right now is like, yeah, buddy, I want that too for you, but it\u2019s not going to happen in this world.
And so I said, \u201cHey, listen, we\u2019ll invest in you, but we\u2019re going to invest in you at the last rounds valuation, not this one. And the reason why you\u2019re going to let us in there is because we\u2019re going to be a bullhorn for you. We\u2019re going to be a foghorn for you. And we\u2019re going\u2026\u201d Is bullhorn a thing? I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a thing. Is that? Anybody know?<\/p>\n

David:
I don\u2019t know if foghorn\u2019s a thing either though.<\/p>\n

Rob:
No foghorn is like the [inaudible 00:48:50]. Isn\u2019t it? [inaudible 00:48:52].<\/p>\n

Codie:
That\u2019s [inaudible 00:48:53].<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. A bullhorn is, I think what you talk into and it amplifies your voice.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, so both work.<\/p>\n

Rob:
No, that\u2019s a megaphone.<\/p>\n

David:
So a bullhorn is what, it makes a bull sound when you blow into it?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Maybe it\u2019s just the horn of a bull. I do live in Texas.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. That actually makes a lot of sense, Codie.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Okay, got it. You\u2019re right, David. It is an electronic device for amplifying the sound of the voice. I apologize for calling you wrong-<\/p>\n

Codie:
[inaudible 00:49:19].<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u2026 on national podcast.<\/p>\n

David:
Because I\u2019m such a big person, I will forgive you for that.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Literally and figuratively.<\/p>\n

David:
Bring a full circle there, Codie, next.<\/p>\n

Codie:
That is exactly right. Anyway, so I think that\u2019s what I would do. I love those rev share deals for people who haven\u2019t done a lot of buyouts because it\u2019s less scary. You\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t have to give you a lot of money. Just future potential money, that makes it less scary I think.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s sort of where I think, I\u2019m figuring out where I want to be entrepreneur wise and real estate investor wise, influencer, all that kind of stuff. Because I even\u2026 Forget I said that. Editor, takeout that I called myself an influencer. No, I\u2019m just kidding. In this space where I\u2019m at, my platform, it does seem like there are a lot of businesses that I want to build. And I understand that there\u2019s so much time involved with doing that in the real estate space.
Like thinking about a short-term rental product, like a service product and this and that, but it makes so much more sense to just use my platform to be sort of a super affiliate for businesses that I really, really, really believe in because then I don\u2019t have to build the business. I can just send the leads and it\u2019s so much easier to do that kind of in my stage right now.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Agree. I just wouldn\u2019t use the term affiliate because you want ownership. You guys know this, the hardest dollars are the first dollars. And so even if you\u2019re not materially changing the outcome of a business to like 100x, if you are taking somebody from a business that does a million dollars to two or three, that\u2019s really, really meaningful. And so I think the problem with affiliates just categorically is you get somebody into somebody\u2019s ecosystem but you normally don\u2019t get paid for the lifetime of that client. And for the reciprocal of the one client who talks to somebody else who talks to somebody else. So I really think you want to get actual ownership.
You want equity ownership that pays dividends on an annual or quarterly basis on the same rate as the rest of the owners so they can\u2019t cut you out of deals. Like if they\u2019re paying themselves, they\u2019re paying you too. That\u2019s what I would say. I don\u2019t do affiliate deals for that reason kind of exclusively.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. And I agree, let me clarify. It\u2019s more like, I call it super affiliate, but what I really mean is like, hey, once I get you to X in revenue and if that matches kind of where you\u2019re at, that\u2019s when I\u2019m sort of brought in as an equitable partner in that company or fund or whatever.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. I like it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So we talked about the roofing company, if you\u2019re a real estate investor and you\u2019re looking to broaden your horizons, is there any kind of other real estate niche or anything that they can jump into and diversify outside of something like buying an actual company that you\u2019re spending a lot of money on?<\/p>\n

Codie:
So do you mean types of companies or structures of deals or both?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Both really. Anything in the real estate space.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. There\u2019s a ton of sectors, I think that make sense for real estate. I think you should just go from proximity bias. So like closest to real estate would be normally some of your biggest expenses. So property managers, let\u2019s say, then it might be owning the mortgage company. Then it might be owning the marketing company that does all your social media marketing for your company overall. Then it might be the HR recruiting company that recruits for your underlying real estate company. So I think you kind of go out from like, what\u2019s closest to your business and move that way.
I have another guy that owns commercial property and buys landscaping companies. He\u2019s bought like two or three, sold one for 10 mil. And it\u2019s because they serviced all of his commercial properties. And so he got to know the guys, they showed up all the time on time. They were underpriced often. They weren\u2019t automated. They had no bad systems. My favorite businesses, like every time I see a fax machine, I just get all hot and bothered. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, this is going to be so good because they\u2019re still using a fax machine. I can only imagine what their Yelp profile looks like.\u201d I\u2019m real fun at a party guys is what I\u2019m trying to tell you. And so anyway, so-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Is that a fax machine back there?<\/p>\n

Codie:
No. Nobody\u2019s invited her again. So I like those businesses that you can add just a little bit of technology to that are close enough to real estate. So that\u2019s probably where I\u2019d go first. Last diatribe here is I also might like, you know how, you guys probably just see it. You know how you can see a property probably online or you could drive by it and you\u2019re just like, \u201cThat\u2019s a good property. I bet this person does X with that.\u201d I don\u2019t have that muscle for real estate because I don\u2019t see as many deals as you guys do. I\u2019ve sent Airbnbs to Rob and he\u2019s like, \u201cNope, 30 seconds, let me tell you why.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, okay. Cool. Got it.\u201d
So you get that with deals after a while. So what\u2019ll happen is the second you start thinking, how can I buy the solution to this problem instead of build the solution to this problem? You\u2019ll start talking to other owners and they\u2019ll be like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019m retiring. I don\u2019t know what to do next. I have this business. I\u2019ll probably hand it off to the grandkids and they\u2019ll burn it to the ground.\u201d And you\u2019re like are on them like white on rice. So it doesn\u2019t always have to be exactly real estate related. It could just be in real estate, you guys know so many people in the community. Use that to your advantage.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s really great. Well, there\u2019s a couple ways we can go with this. We can actually jump into the deal deep dive and talk about one of them or you can also rip apart one of our deals. What do you think, Dave?<\/p>\n

David:
Let\u2019s go to the deal deep dive. I want to hear about a business that Codie has bought.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Well, let\u2019s go with the recent one. I\u2019m going to pull up some numbers here so I\u2019m not lying to you guys because that\u2019s not a good way to start a relationship.<\/p>\n

David:
So we will ask you questions. Codie, we\u2019ll fire them at you and you can just fire back.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, I like it. Let\u2019s go.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Question number one. What kind of business is this?<\/p>\n

Codie:
This business is a SaaS services business. So it\u2019s a business that does like templated processes for hiring.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And how did you find it?<\/p>\n

Codie:
A lot of the reason I am so much on social is so that people will send me deals. So this one, one of the people that follows me on social sent me this deal.<\/p>\n

David:
Next question. How much was the deal?<\/p>\n

Codie:
This business was $120,000 with an additional $135,000 of earn out. So $255,000.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Wow. That\u2019s a good deal.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. 1600s back when it was a Louisiana purchase. That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s a historical deep cut is what we call that.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, that\u2019d be great for TikTok.<\/p>\n

David:
That should probably go down as the best real estate deal of all time. Have we ranked best real estate? The Louisiana purchase has to be up there.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I think that\u2019s up there. I don\u2019t-<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, it\u2019s got to be up there.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I don\u2019t think that one\u2019s up for a contention. How did you negotiate it?<\/p>\n

Codie:
So this one was relatively easy. This business, they\u2019ve been in business for six years. It\u2019s one of the guy\u2019s projects. He has multiple projects. So it\u2019s getting kind of no love and it\u2019s a really cool interface but no distribution on it. So I found it because we used the tool in one of my businesses to hire people and then just reached out to them and was like, \u201cWhat are you doing with this? What\u2019s happening?\u201d Got to know the guy. I never really just usually reach out to people and say, \u201cHey, can I buy your stuff? That doesn\u2019t usually work out as well. I just say like, \u201cOh, I\u2019d love to talk to you. This is a cool business.\u201d
I get to know the guy and he tells me, \u201cYeah, it\u2019s just one of the things I run, but I\u2019m really focused on this AI such and such.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cGreat.\u201d And so I ask him a little bit more about the sort of numbers on the business. He tells me and then we start talking sales.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay. When you decided to buy it, how did you fund it?<\/p>\n

Codie:
This one I bought with cash. Not much. It wasn\u2019t a huge capital outlay and I wanted it to close quickly. So 120k down. And then the earn out is that additional $135,000 that he will get but he\u2019s funding me in seller financing over the course of, I believe it\u2019s two years.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Okay. And what did you do with this business?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Haven\u2019t done anything yet except started to take over the business and run it. It\u2019s a profitable business. It\u2019s not huge. It probably does something like eight to $13,000 a month in profit. And this business is one that what I want to do is plug it in with this other company that I\u2019m going to buy. And I already have the operator that\u2019s running this new business and he\u2019s going to run both of them and then I\u2019m going to integrate it into everything else that we do.
So it would be like, I guess if you had like a lead gen software or something like that or a hiring software or something like that for your real estate company. I just want to plug it into my ecosystem, make it easier for my company to grow and then I\u2019m going to distribute it through our social and media following.<\/p>\n

David:
Awesome. All right. So far, what has the outcome been?<\/p>\n

Codie:
The outcome here has just been\u2026 Sales are standard. I got this deal at\u2026 So if we\u2019re making, let\u2019s split the difference and say we\u2019re making $10,000 a month just to be even across the board. That\u2019s 120k a year and that\u2019s essentially what I put down. So I bought the business for 1x down what the total value of the business is, or I\u2019m sorry, what the total profits of the business is. And then let\u2019s call it another two point, I don\u2019t know, 1x on the, I\u2019m sorry, another 1.1x on the future revenue of the business. So right now we\u2019re profitable buying this business inside of two years if nothing grows.
At the end of two years, every dollar that we make on top of it is gravy. So that in itself would make me happy. But the thing that we\u2019re going to do is connect it with this other company. And then I think this thing could be worth a few million dollars. My target for it, I modeled it out and thought we could turn this into a 5.7 million business sort of with our ecosystem and not buying any other companies. So we\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n

Rob:
5.7 million, oddly specific, but I love it. Last question for you, what lessons did you learn from this deal?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Couple things. I don\u2019t know if I learned from this one in particular, but first would be keep the deal terms really simple. So this is an older gentleman that was running this company and he didn\u2019t want a bunch of\u2026 I wouldn\u2019t give him a full term sheet. Basically I typed out bullet points. So this is what we\u2019re going to do. Nothing else besides these main terms will get snuck in there. And that allowed us to turn around the deal within like 48 hours. And then we papered it with the attorney. So I would say keep it really stupid simple and you\u2019ll close a lot faster and not scare the seller off.<\/p>\n

David:
Awesome. All right. Well, thank you, Codie. We don\u2019t get to hear every day about\u2026 You know what, let me ask you one last question before we get out of here. If somebody is interested in either buying a business or selling a business they have, how do you find the equivalent of a real estate agent to handle that transaction?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, it\u2019s called a broker. There aren\u2019t really brokers for you if you\u2019re buying a business, you can get on the Rolodex of a bunch of cell side brokers. That\u2019s the norm. So any broker is almost always going to represent the seller. There\u2019s not like buy side brokers unless maybe you\u2019re really big and then you bring them in house. And those are usually called business development guys. So the way that you find them is you go to somewhere like Quiet Light Brokerage, you could go to E-Commerce Flippers, you could look on BizBuySell and they\u2019re going to have a lot of brokers listed that you could work with that are repping deals.
And then you start to develop a relationship with them. Like, \u201cHey, when you next get a seller that\u2019s doing X, Y or Z, call me if it\u2019s these parameters.\u201d And I do like to develop relationships with them. They\u2019ll give you, especially if you buy something from them once, they know you\u2019re a player, you\u2019re not going to waste their time. They\u2019ll give you a lot of deals.<\/p>\n

David:
So would you just Google like business broker?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. Well, I would go to those three. If you\u2019re going to buy online businesses, I\u2019d go to Quiet Light Brokerage or E-Commerce Flippers. But yes, you could just Google business brokers. I would try to be more specific. I might say like, business brokers in this geography. I might say, HVAC business brokers, laundromat business brokers. Kind of like narrow down what your specific segment is because there\u2019s oftentimes specialists and support groups, industry specific groups basically.<\/p>\n

David:
So when are you going to buy a business brokerage to make money from businesses that are sold and then get the first shot at businesses that are coming available [inaudible 01:02:03] of the world.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Boring business inception.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. Boring business inception.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Now everybody knows. Nobody\u2019s listening. Well, funny story actually. So when I was first starting to do this, this is only funny to a nerd, but I reached out to this company called BizBuySell and they have this terrible interface. It\u2019s super 1980s. It\u2019s not optimized. There\u2019s a bunch of trash on the website. And I\u2019m not a billionaire, but I reach out to these people and I\u2019m like, \u201cHey, has anybody ever spoken to you about buying your business? I\u2019d like to buy BizBuySell.\u201d And I don\u2019t get a response and I kind of like try to get a bunch of different ways.
And then I Google who the parent company is and realize that they\u2019re owned by Core-Mark, which is like a 47.3 billion company. And so I have tried to buy business buying sites, but the really good ones are very valuable. I bet that company\u2019s worth 60 to 160 million, something like that. I\u2019d still buy it at those terms if they would sell it actually. I just need other investors, but I might invest in two smaller marketplaces that I\u2019m looking at right now. There\u2019s not great options to go up against them. We need a Zillow or Redfin for businesses that\u2019s really well done. And it just doesn\u2019t quite exist yet for hard asset businesses. For online businesses, there are some options.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I wonder if there\u2019s anyone on this podcast that\u2019s capable of taking that on. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Guess we\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n

David:
I would like to talk to them because this is an issue that I often have. You know what, here, Codie, I\u2019m going to tie this together. What I love about this and why we wanted you on the show, well, first off you\u2019re awesome at what you do. It is very rare you come across someone that can do what you do. And it also is personable enough to explain it. Typically, the people like you are very hard to understand. They can\u2019t articulate what\u2019s in their head. It\u2019s, you know what I\u2019m getting at. But in this era we\u2019re finding it harder and harder to find cash flowing real estate.
It\u2019s getting increasingly difficult because in general, owning real estate is less work than owning a business. So all this money\u2019s been printed by the government. It falls in the hands of smart people. They have to deploy it. It\u2019s usually less risky and less time consuming to go buy a bunch of real estate than it is to go buy a business where you have to, like you were looking at, you have to oversee it, make sure people aren\u2019t skimming off the top. It\u2019s a little more labor inducive. So that has created this really big bubble in the real\u2026 I shouldn\u2019t say bubble, because it\u2019s not like it\u2019s going to pop.
It\u2019s created a very hot market where it\u2019s harder to find real estate deals, but business deals are everywhere. Like you\u2019re saying, there\u2019s all these baby boomers that are aging out. There\u2019s an epidemic of fax machines that are screaming, \u201cCome buy me.\u201d So this is a way that if you\u2019re into real estate and you want to work in this space, that you can become an owner of a business and still find income coming in from something without just buying real estate. So I want to thank you for sharing this. And Rob, for you, how do you guys know each other by the way? I never asked that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I don\u2019t even remember.<\/p>\n

Codie:
How did we meet?<\/p>\n

Rob:
How did we become friends?<\/p>\n

Codie:
It had to be online.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, you asked me to come on your podcast like a year ago, I think.<\/p>\n

Codie:
But did I just meet you online? Was I just following you?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Yeah. I think so. You were like, \u201cOh, this guy builds tiny houses. I\u2019d like to have him on my podcast.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And then I think I ghosted on accident. I was busy.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Did you?<\/p>\n

Rob:
I was busy learning who I was. And then you emailed me like three more times. I was like, \u201cFine. I\u2019ll do it.\u201d<\/p>\n

Codie:
Ah, I love that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And then I was like, \u201cOh my gosh, he\u2019s so cool,\u201d once we actually did the podcast and then we\u2019ve been buds ever since.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. And then you came and spoke at my conference, which was rad.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s right. Ah, man, that was really, really fun. Thank you for having me up.<\/p>\n

Codie:
You\u2019re a killer speaker. That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, stop. Stop.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, you should be on a podcast or something. All right. Well, this has been mind blowing. I love talking this stuff. I hope we can have you back on, Codie, again, to talk about it in a little more depth because I think with the market we\u2019re in, it only makes sense for real estate investors to sort of broaden their perspective, look around a little bit and say, \u201cHey, I still want to buy real estate, but I could buy some of these businesses that compliment real estate.\u201d That\u2019s a big thing Brandon and I talked about was the synergy, right? If you\u2019re flipping houses and then you go to the burst strategy, it\u2019s not a huge jump. You\u2019re not doing something completely new.
If you run a glue factory and then you want to go start like a lumberjack business, that\u2019s a really bad idea. There\u2019s no congruency between the two things. So what we\u2019re talking about is if you already love real estate, you already know how to value it, you kind of get how the world works. Why not consider running a business that\u2019s in that world? It\u2019s not a huge jump. So thank you for that. All right. We\u2019re going to move on to the last segment of our show. It is the world famous, Famous Four. At this segment of the show, Codie, we ask every guest the same four questions. And I will start. Question number one, if you have one, what is your favorite real estate related book?<\/p>\n

Codie:
It\u2019s so cliche to say, Rich Dad Poor Dad. That\u2019s actually terrible. I don\u2019t have any real estate books that I would read besides Rich Dad Poor Dad or actually know where I would go? Dale Carnegie\u2019s biography. Not exactly real estate, but one of the largest real estate owners in the country at his time. And I think anytime you can read the biography of great men who have amassed massive wealth, you walk away learning a ton. I think Walter Isaacson wrote that book, who\u2019s also an incredible biographer, but check my facts on that one.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Okay. Question number two. Favorite business book.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Ah, this is also a little controversial. It\u2019s not for the political leanings, but Dave, you already know that I like to be controversial, so we\u2019ll just throw it in there. We\u2019ll get everybody canceled early. There\u2019s a book called Atlas Shrugged that lots of people talk about, another one called Fountainhead. And the reason I like those books, they\u2019re novels written by a woman who came over from communist Russia to the US. And the reason I like them is because they were the first books that I ever read that make me feel like it made sense when you love business. I don\u2019t know if you guys or anybody listening relates that like some people just, their eyes glaze over.
And I would love nothing more than to talk business all day. I don\u2019t care what\u2019s on TV. I don\u2019t care about your kids. I don\u2019t want to hear about the dog. The weather\u2019s out of the question, but if you want to talk business strategies, I\u2019m there for it all day. And that book made me realize, oh, maybe there\u2019s other people like that. So I really like that book.<\/p>\n

David:
I think that\u2019s what Rich Dad Poor Dad did to a lot of people when it comes to finance and real estate is it was, that is what I\u2019ve been feeling this whole time and now I don\u2019t feel crazy. There\u2019s other people out there that feel it too. And those are always impactful moments when you have that, like, yes, now it makes sense. That\u2019s what the DiSC profile was for me with communications. Oh, that\u2019s how you got to do this. So these are powerful books.
Even if you end up not agreeing with everything that\u2019s in the book, I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything wrong with reading it, trying to understand the viewpoint of the person that wrote it and seeing if those principles might apply to some other part of your life even if it\u2019s not business.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yes. Agree.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Actually I will say credit to your conference. When I was there and I was in the green room with all the speakers, that\u2019s how I felt. I was like, \u201cOh, this is how other entrepreneurs think.\u201d And they all like the [inaudible 01:09:04] were going. Everyone\u2019s talking about the game plan, everyone just super, super successful. And I was like, \u201cWow, this is\u2026\u201d I felt very elevated being in a room with other people that were like same mindset.<\/p>\n

Codie:
I love that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
So when you are not buying 26 businesses and working them and hiring the team and operators and doing all that whole thing, what are some of your favorite hobbies?<\/p>\n

Codie:
You brought up jujitsu earlier, Dave, but my husband\u2019s really into jujitsu. I actually really like Muay Thai. So we do a lot of Muay Thai, a lot of yoga. I think our saying at Contrarian Thinking is civilize the mind, make savage the body, build the bank account. And so I try to do things every single day that I think are hard physically. That\u2019s maybe one of my favorite things because it makes everything else easier. Then it\u2019s like, oh, we lost some money this month. Okay, whatever, is anybody going to die?
So I would add MMA. I would add yoga. And then I would add, I\u2019m really into lately saunas and cold plunges. I think that\u2019s become a thing now, but those are some of my favorite activities.<\/p>\n

David:
So pretty much anything you can do that is hard.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, I don\u2019t like heights. Does that count? Yeah. That\u2019s not my favorite.<\/p>\n

Rob:
All right, let\u2019s go skydiving. Set it up.<\/p>\n

Codie:
I\u2019ll do it. I just won\u2019t like it, Rob.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. In your opinion, what makes successful investors different from those who give up, fail or never get started?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Ego. It\u2019s all about the ability to ask questions. I used to think that I had to be really smart. Private equity is a weird world and lots of people are not the nicest in that space. And so for a long time, I was really quiet and just would nod my head like, \u201cOf course I know what pari passu means.\u201d And then I\u2019d go Google like pro rata, pari passu. What\u2019s that mean? And then I realized, wait a second, none of these people actually know. And the thing that is their Achilles heel is that they\u2019re all pretending that they know everything so they sound smarter than everybody else.
And I realized the smartest investors were like, \u201cExplain that to me like I\u2019m a toddler.\u201d And they had no\u2026 It didn\u2019t mean that they weren\u2019t smart. They just didn\u2019t care if they didn\u2019t know all the answers. And so I\u2019m a former journalist and that really opened up my eyes to a lot. I was like, \u201cOh, if I just ask the right questions, I can get any answer. I don\u2019t have to have all the answers.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
I love that. So former journalist, Goldman Sachs ex worker\/crazy business owner with 26 owners, really quite the resume, Codie. Thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell us where people can find out more about you on the interwebs?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. I\u2019m Codie Sanchez pretty much everywhere. We\u2019re pretty big on TikTok and Twitter and Instagram. And then Contrarian Thinking, if you want any of the business breakdowns, that\u2019s where those will be.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, definitely go follow her on Instagram, TikTok. Literally Codie went from like, I don\u2019t know, it was annoying. 150,000 followers to like 800,000 followers in like a week. And I was like, \u201cDang it. Now I\u2019ll never catch up.\u201d<\/p>\n

Codie:
That is not going to be on my tombstone. I don\u2019t know that we\u2019re going to care about that in a year or two. So I think you got that. Don\u2019t worry about it.<\/p>\n

David:
But we care about it now, Codie, especially Rob.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. That\u2019s right. I won\u2019t sleep until I beat you.<\/p>\n

David:
This was always what I had to feel when Brandon was on the show is he would be like, \u201cHey, follow me.\u201d And he\u2019d get 9,000 followers and I\u2019d get like four, mostly the four people that felt bad, like, oh, but what about David? Just give him a pity follow. And what people don\u2019t realize is I am perfectly fine with the pity follow. I\u2019m not above that whatsoever.<\/p>\n

Rob:
True. He is.<\/p>\n

Codie:
What, give me the money.<\/p>\n

Rob:
We\u2019ll want to say one quick warning to everybody, go follow Codie, go follow, foto or follow me at Rob Built, David at David Green 24. What\u2019s going to happen is you\u2019ll follow us. Immediately upon following us, you\u2019ll probably get a robot that follows you back.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Don\u2019t fall for the robot, guys.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Don\u2019t fall for the robot.<\/p>\n

Rob:
They\u2019re out there. We\u2019re all working on the blue checks. I don\u2019t know, Codie, you might have a blue check, but me and David are working on it.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. None of us talk about crypto. So there\u2019s your first trigger. They talk to you about crypto.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Although I hate to say it-<\/p>\n

Rob:
You shouldn\u2019t have said it. Now that you said it, it\u2019s out there now.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh, wow. Also, I think there\u2019s a little bit of Darwinism happening here because I\u2019m like, you guys, if you\u2019re falling for these bots, maybe you needed to once because you\u2019re never going to fall for it again. This is like your Nigerian [inaudible 01:13:24] from Africa calling.<\/p>\n

Rob:
You do like some controversial things.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah, come on, guys. You got to get smarter than the bots.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. I have a lot of people that will send me the screenshot and they\u2019re like, \u201cHey, this is Rob [inaudible 01:13:33] 45678. Is this you?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, you\u2019re messaging me. This is me. We\u2019ve established that this is my account.<\/p>\n

David:
[inaudible 01:13:41] you get is that you, did you make up another fake account, spell your name wrong on purpose, copy all the same pictures from the one you had to the other one just to message me from that one? It\u2019s understandable that they\u2019re confused. It\u2019s just funny that\u2019s the way that they phrase the question to [inaudible 01:13:58].<\/p>\n

Rob:
I\u2019m not kidding you. I get minimum, minimum 30 to 50 of those messages a day.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Oh yeah. Ditto. The same. My favorite thing is just, I go on another account just because they block you from seeing them. So I can\u2019t ever see my scammers.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yes. They do. It\u2019s annoying.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Yeah. So I go to this other account and then I just do a screen share of like the 452 versions of Codie, which is funny because nobody even cares about the one Codie. I don\u2019t know why they think the 400\u2026 But somebody out there\u2019s fallen for it. So you got to wake up because if people don\u2019t buy this stuff anymore, I think the scammers go away and then we\u2019re solved. Wait until I get scammed, then I\u2019ll come back on here and you guys can ridicule me mercilessly.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Well, everybody cares about the one Codie. All right, let me clear that up for everybody.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes. And on that note, thank you so much, Codie, for being on the show, for sharing your expertise, for giving us a new perspective on how we can make money through real estate and enjoy what we do. Again, what\u2019s your preferred method for people to reach out if they do want to talk to you?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Where we usually do the most engaging is probably Twitter. So get at me on Twitter, I respond to all the comments on our tweets and I think Twitter is actually pretty fun and you can engage with humans very easily. TikTok, forget about it. I don\u2019t, no promises.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s your thoughts on a business person in Elon Musk buying Twitter? It was a good buy?<\/p>\n

Codie:
I think you probably know where I\u2019m going. I think he\u2019s crazy for doing it. You couldn\u2019t pay me enough money to buy Twitter with all the nonsense that goes on from there, but I think it\u2019s good for the platform.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay. Do you think it was good for him as a business? Do you think that made sense?<\/p>\n

Codie:
No. No. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s\u2026 Maybe he\u2019s a rocket scientist, so he actually knows how to do a much more difficult problem, which is send rockets to space. I think he can probably figure out how to stop people from corrupting our free speech problem here in the US. So I think it probably makes sense to some degree, but-<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m curious what type of synergy there is between his goals and Twitter. Because as we were just saying, you buy a business if it\u2019s related to something you already do. So there\u2019s some angle I\u2019m sure Elon Musk is seeing, would you agree?<\/p>\n

Codie:
Well, he kind of said when he set out to create Tesla and SpaceX, he said they\u2019re really hard problems to solve. I think we have about a 10% chance of solving them, but they\u2019re worthy problems of solving. So I\u2019m going to start it regardless. And so I think he probably feels the same. Free speech is worth saving. It\u2019s a hard problem, but it\u2019s worth trying to do. And then he said, \u201cIt\u2019s not in my nature to give up.\u201d And so that makes me think he\u2019ll probably be successful with Twitter just like everything else.<\/p>\n

David:
That is a good point. Rob, what\u2019s your preferred medium where you\u2019d like to be contacted.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, YouTube. You can follow me on YouTube at Rob Built or Instagram at Rob Built.<\/p>\n

David:
Alrighty. I\u2019m at David Green 24. Facebook Messenger is probably the best way to get ahold of me if you have something important. I\u2019ll give you guys a little secret there. It\u2019s not a secret now that I\u2019ve said it on the podcast, but-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Good take.<\/p>\n

David:
\u2026 Instagram, we get like 700 messages a day. Facebook Messenger, I get two. So if you really want to get a hold of somebody important, that\u2019s the best way to go about it assuming they have the app on their phone. That\u2019s my go-to move if I ever want to get in touch with somebody famous or something is until I have a blue check mark, they don\u2019t know which of the David Greens it is. So I use Facebook Messenger. And then you could follow my YouTube at David Green Real Estate. Very boring just like me. Codie, any last words before we get out of here?<\/p>\n

Codie:
No, just go diversify. Try to buy something even if you don\u2019t use money.<\/p>\n

David:
There we go. Rob, anything from you.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Mm-mm. I\u2019d say go diversify and go make money, oh, even if you don\u2019t have to spend money.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Sounds smart.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Well, I\u2019ll get us out of here.<\/p>\n

Codie:
Thank you guys.<\/p>\n

David:
This is David Green for Rob copying Codie\u2019s ending line. Abasolo signing off.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n


\n
Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Knowing how to buy a business is a lot like knowing how to buy a rental property. First, you\u2019ll need to know the price of the asset, then the cash flow, followed by expenses, and finally the structure. Because buying real estate is perceived as \u201csimpler\u201d than buying a business, most investors decide to go […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":2744,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/REP_614_WEB_.jpg","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2743","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2743","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2743"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2743\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2744"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2743"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2743"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2743"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}