\n<\/p>\n
If you want to invest in real estate<\/strong><\/a>, you\u2019ll need a few things: a property, an income source, and some cash. If you\u2019ve got all three, you should be able to finance your way to owning a rental property<\/strong>, but this becomes a little more challenging when you\u2019re someone with fluctuating income<\/strong>. Entrepreneurs, especially those without a consistent client base or consistent\u00a0schedules, have a seriously hard time tracking, budgeting, and saving their income which changes every other month.<\/p>\n Chelsea and Wade<\/strong> feel this way as well. They\u2019re both entrepreneurs, but, as a filmmaker, Wade has far more fluid income than Chelsea does. Some months Wade will bring in tens of thousands<\/strong>, while other months, nothing. Chelsea can subsidize the household budget with her more regular income, but even then, the couple needs to keep a strong <\/strong>safety reserve<\/strong><\/a> to ensure they\u2019re never going too over budget without their bank account being refilled.<\/p>\n Thankfully, Chelsea and Wade are very good at managing their money <\/strong>and may actually have too much of it. They\u2019re looking to dive into real estate investing<\/strong> to start building a path to financial freedom<\/strong><\/a>. With a serious amount of safety reserves, they\u2019re thinking of buying a short-term<\/strong> rental as their first investment property. But, does their inconsistent income threaten their vacation rental plans?<\/p>\n Mindy: Chelsea: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Chelsea: Mindy: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Wade: Scott: Wade: Scott: Wade: Scott: Wade: Scott: Wade: Scott: Chelsea: Chelsea: Chelsea: Wade: Chelsea: Wade: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Wade: Chelsea: Chelsea: Wade: Chelsea: Wade: Scott: Wade: Chelsea: Mindy: Chelsea: Wade: Scott: Wade: Scott: Chelsea: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Wade: Mindy: Wade: Mindy: Mindy: Chelsea: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Wade: Wade: Scott: Scott: Wade: Chelsea: Scott: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Wade: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Mindy: Wade: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Chelsea: Mindy: Wade: Wade: Scott: Scott: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Wade: Scott: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Chelsea: Chelsea: Wade: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Scott: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Mindy: Mindy: Mindy: Chelsea: Scott: Chelsea: Mindy: Chelsea: Chelsea: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Wade: Wade: Chelsea: Chelsea: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Chelsea: Scott: Scott: Chelsea: Wade: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Chelsea: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Chelsea: Wade: Chelsea: Scott: Scott: Scott: Mindy: Chelsea: Mindy: Scott: Scott: Scott: Mindy: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: Scott: Mindy: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes<\/a>\u00a0by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds.\u00a0Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n
Welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast Show number 306 Finance Friday Edition, where we interview Chelsea and Wade and talk about budgeting with variable income.<\/p>\n
I own my own business because I want to have the flexibility and the autonomy and the freedom to do whatever I want. And that\u2019s sort of my personality anyway, is I don\u2019t really want people to tell me what to do. Having the flexibility to do that is really cool, because I can work three days a week and do the amount of number of sessions that I want versus somebody telling me, \u201cI need you to do 35 sessions a week,\u201d and then me just walking around as a burnt out zombie.<\/p>\n
Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mindy Jensen and with me as always is my Obi Wan Keknowitall host, Scott Trench\/<\/p>\n
Ooh, the force is strong with our recommendations in this episode, Mindy.<\/p>\n
That came from our Facebook group. Somebody suggested that and I love it. Okay, Scott and I are here to make financial independence less scary, less just for somebody else to introduce you to every money story, because we truly believe financial freedom is attainable for everyone, no matter when or where you\u2019re starting.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right. Whether you want to retire early and travel the world, go on to make big time investments in assets like real estate, or start and scale your own business, we\u2019ll help you reach your financial goals and get money out of the way, so you can launch yourself towards those dreams.<\/p>\n
Scott, I am super excited to talk to Chelsea and Wade today because they have a problem that a lot of people have. They have variable income, widely variable income, and it can sometimes be difficult to budget when your income is up one month and down one month, or down two months in a row, or down even three months in a row. You can start to feel like, I\u2019m not really doing it right. Today, we talk to them and give them some ideas for how to handle their variable income.<\/p>\n
Yep, love it. I think it was a great discussion. They\u2019re doing a lot of things really right, and I hope that it\u2019s an interesting perspective on what life is like in building wealth from a self-employed perspective with two spouses who are self-employed.<\/p>\n
Yes. Before we bring them in, let me satisfy my attorney by saying the contents of this podcast are informational in nature and are not legal or tax advice. And neither Scott, nor I, nor BiggerPockets is engaged in the provision of legal, tax, or any other advice. You should seek your own advice from professional advisors, including lawyers and accountants, regarding the legal tax and financial implications of any financial decision you contemplate. I don\u2019t think I would be a very good auctioneer, do you, Scott?<\/p>\n
No, but I think you satisfied our attorney.<\/p>\n
I did. Chelsea and Wade are on the path to financial independence, but they have widely variable, monthly income, anywhere between $5,000 a month and $26,000 a month. Coupled with ever changing monthly expenses, they\u2019ve been having difficulty creating a budget. And on top of that, they\u2019re both self-employed making insurance another wrinkle to iron out. Wade and Chelsea, welcome to the BiggerPockets Money Podcast. I\u2019m so excited to talk to you guys today.<\/p>\n
Thank you so much for having us. This is a dream come true.<\/p>\n
Well, let\u2019s get into this because we have a lot to unpack. What is your income and where does it go?<\/p>\n
Okay, so we are both self-employed, like you said, and I\u2019m a professional counselor with a private practice. My income varies, but it\u2019s more consistent than his. Last year I brought home $51,000 and that came out to about like 4,000 a month.<\/p>\n
And that\u2019s net income after tax.<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
Hitting your bank account.<\/p>\n
Mm-hmm (affirmative).<\/p>\n
Great.<\/p>\n
Yeah. My income varies a lot more, because I\u2019m a filmmaker. I do projects where sometimes I\u2019ll make like $26,000 in a month and sometimes I will make $0 in a month. It also gets a little more complicated on the business side because I have a really high gross income. Last year, my business gross was like $225,000, but that\u2019s because I\u2019m paying lots of contractors. It may look like I\u2019m making a lot of money, but after expenses and contractors, my income for my net is much lower.<\/p>\n
Awesome. What does that kind of come out to annualized?<\/p>\n
My net income is $86,000 for my business.<\/p>\n
And that\u2019s again after tax.<\/p>\n
After tax, yes.<\/p>\n
Awesome. Okay, great. That\u2019s not bad. It\u2019s about 137,000 in total annual income.<\/p>\n
Yep.<\/p>\n
Any other sources of income throughout the year?<\/p>\n
Nope. Nope. Not right now.<\/p>\n
Great. What about expenses? Where\u2019s that money going?<\/p>\n
Okay. We\u2019ll kind of go through everything. Our mortgage insurance taxes comes out to $1,684 a month. Utilities range from 250 to 350 a month. Groceries are 850. Eating out, 120. Household products like cleaning stuff, sometimes kids stuff is in there too, 300. Gym, 170. Gas, around 300. That varies too. Subscriptions like Netflix, 27. Health insurance, 488.<\/p>\n
Because we don\u2019t have traditional health insurance, we pay for a lot of extra medical things out of pocket, so that can really vary from like zero to sometimes 700 or more a month. Car insurance is a hundred. Life insurance is 31. We budget for entertainment around 200 a month, miscellaneous, 200, kids stuff, 200. These vary a lot. Childcare, we aren\u2019t currently paying for childcare, but we will be in the summer. That\u2019s looking like it\u2019ll be around 850 a month for the summer.<\/p>\n
But then both our kids will be in school, so we won\u2019t pay during the school year for childcare. We give $500 a month. We save $300 a month for our kids\u2019 college. Then we each have a spending money of $50 a month. And then we have a dog and she requires most of the time very little, but around $45 a month.<\/p>\n
Total, that is $6,000.<\/p>\n
Around 6,000, yeah.<\/p>\n
Yeah, around 6,000 is our monthly expenses.<\/p>\n
Awesome. That seems like a super reasonable budget from my seat, from that with maybe a little room, but not much from a cut perspective. Is that kind of how you\u2019re feeling about it?<\/p>\n
Yeah, absolutely. I have been tracking our spending with Mindy\u2019s recommendations since October-ish. We\u2019ve always kind of had a budget or more. It\u2019s been like an outline of like, this is what we\u2019re kind of planning. But because our income is variable and there\u2019s lots going on, it\u2019s sort of like this is the best guess. We just kind of go for it.<\/p>\n
Well, let\u2019s go through your assets and liabilities. Can you walk us through where you\u2019re putting that money?<\/p>\n
Yeah. Chelsea has a Roth IRA. She\u2019s got 10,000 in there. Her SEP IRA has 26,000. I have a Roth that\u2019s five, and then a SEP that is 7,500. Total retirement savings right now is 48,000, and that is\u2026 That\u2019s our retirement. And then you can go through the others.<\/p>\n
And then right now we have two kids. We have a four year old and a seven year old, and we have about 6,000 saved for college. It\u2019s about 3,000 each right now. We have an emergency fund of 30,000. We have other cash savings in a savings account, just a general savings account, of 34,000. And then we have our current home equity at 140,000. We also have money in our separate business accounts, but that\u2019s for like\u2026<\/p>\n
Some of it\u2019s going to go to pay us, but some of it\u2019s going to go to the business. I don\u2019t know how you want to do that.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s mainly business savings, or it\u2019s for cash flow for business.<\/p>\n
For paying ourselves.<\/p>\n
Our total net worth is around 300,000.<\/p>\n
Awesome. Essentially half of that\u2019s in your home equity, another third is in cash, and the rest is in various retirement accounts is how to think about that.<\/p>\n
Yep.<\/p>\n
Yep.<\/p>\n
Does that 300,000 include the business account money?<\/p>\n
Right now, yes.<\/p>\n
Yes, that does. Right now, Chelsea has about 11,000 in business savings, and then I have right now about 40,000 in business savings. That does kind of equal more to the 300,000.<\/p>\n
You said you had 225,000 in revenue for your business last year, and then you had like 130,000 in expenses between contractors and taxes?<\/p>\n
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.<\/p>\n
Okay. Yeah, that seems super reasonable there. What are your goals and how can we help you?<\/p>\n
We just wanted to chat with you guys a little bit about if you had any suggestions on our variable income situation. We have come a long way with that, and we\u2019ve actually gotten the opportunity to achieve a lot of goals while we have been on this journey, because Wade\u2019s income has been variable for most of our marriage for the last 12 years. I\u2019ve been in school for a lot of that. It\u2019s really within the last five years that I finally started making money, which has helped us achieve paying off debt.<\/p>\n
We paid off $50,000 in student loans. We saved up a ton of money last year to put a down payment down on a house for us. We have like a lot of good momentum going, but we just want some help with kind of\u2026 If you have any suggestions on the variable income. And then we\u2019re really long-term looking to be financially independent. We would like to start moving into real estate and specifically investing into short-term rental real estate so we can have some residual income.<\/p>\n
How long did you say you\u2019ve been both generating income at this level?<\/p>\n
At this level, probably three years.<\/p>\n
Okay, great. You\u2019re not going to have any problem from a debt perspective. You might have to talk to a couple of lenders who are going to be more comfortable with self-employed folks, but you\u2019ll have enough income history with both of your professions to be able to qualify on that front. Well, just kind of like looking at this, great job. You\u2019ve got a great situation. You\u2019ve got a really strong financial foundation. You\u2019ve got $300,000 in net worth.<\/p>\n
You have no consumer debt, it sounds like, aside from your mortgage on this. You\u2019ve got a huge cash position and are beginning to invest. You have a very good start from an investment standpoint in these things. I love the fact that you have a lot of cash. You may have slightly too much cash. We can think about that from there, but it makes a lot of sense to do that when you\u2019re self-employed and to have separate business and personal items there.<\/p>\n
You generate 50 or 60 or $70,000 per year, although it is lumpy, seasonal, or perhaps periodic, I\u2019m not sure which is the right term to describe your income. But I mean, this is a great position here. Like the fundamentals, I think, are all super strong as an outside observer about what you\u2019re currently doing right now.<\/p>\n
Thank you. I really appreciate that.<\/p>\n
Where would you like to start with the next steps here?<\/p>\n
I want to start. I\u2019m going to look at this as Chelsea brings in 4,000 a month and Wade is bringing in on average 7,000 a month. That\u2019s $11,000 a month with approximately a $6,000 a month spend. That\u2019s a $5,000 a month delta that you have. That\u2019s great. We don\u2019t spend enough time celebrating. Yay! That\u2019s fantastic that you guys are spending so much less than what you are bringing in. But on those months when you\u2019re only bringing in $5,000, it\u2019s not going to feel like that.<\/p>\n
If there\u2019s several months like that in a row, it can feel like there\u2019s this huge deficit when\u2026 Then Wade brings in the, boom, here\u2019s 26,000. Yay! That\u2019s great. I would suggest if I was in this situation, I would have a savings account or a bucket where I put extra money from these $26,000 months, where there\u2019s extra funds over and above what you\u2019re spending that you know you will need for the lead months and have money in there available for when there\u2019s not enough.<\/p>\n
Go back through your spending and your income statements and look and see is that three months a year that you have less income than what you\u2019re spending, or is it more like six months and then you get this one giant month? That\u2019s a research opportunity for you guys to look into where you\u2019re going to feel comfortable having that extra bucket. You do have this $34,000 in other cash savings. Does that have an earmark, or is that just a random bucket for whatever comes up?<\/p>\n
That is the money that we\u2019re saving for a short-term rental. Our goal is to basically put as much money into that as possible so that we can have a down payment for a short-term rental in the next year. That is our goal to be able to purchase some real estate in the next year. That is why that number is pretty high.<\/p>\n
And then the emergency fund, like on a month where you\u2019re coming in lower than you\u2019re spending, where is that money coming from?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s the emergency fund. I mean, typically that $30,000 savings account is our emergency fund. If we have a low month, we take money out of that 30,000 to pay for personal expenses. And then when we have a bigger month, we recoup it and then put it back so it stays at 30 as best as we can.<\/p>\n
Does that feel mentally comfortable to have that emergency fund ebbing and flowing like that? Or would it feel better mentally to have this bucket where the emergency fund is $30,000 and then the light income this month fund is $10,000 because you know you\u2019re going to put more in when you need it, but that\u2019s not coming out of your specific emergency fund. A lot of this personal finance stuff is a mental game where you have to just kind of convince yourself that this is how it\u2019s going to be.<\/p>\n
Sometimes you can\u2019t, so you have to allow it to be the way that your mind wants it best. I mean, that\u2019s so like floofy to say, but if your mind is having a hard time wrapping around the fact that you can pull from your emergency fund, maybe having an income bucket will allow you to be okay with it. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n
Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s something to consider. Take some out of the emergency fund and put it into your income bucket, or maybe you\u2019ve got a $26,000 a month coming up and then you can fill up that little extra emergency bucket, because you\u2019re not doing bad at all. You\u2019re doing really great. Number one, you\u2019ve got a great average income and you\u2019re spending far less than that.<\/p>\n
But again, three months in a row of less than average income is going to not make it feel like you\u2019re doing all that great. That\u2019s that mental game that your mind can\u2019t like\u2026 Sometimes you can\u2019t see the forest for the trees.<\/p>\n
I mean, look, there\u2019s lots of right ways to do your cash. Yours is among the most right I\u2019ve ever seen. I love this. You have a lot of variable expenses in your business account, Wade. You have 40,000 bucks. Chelsea, you have it sounds like probably much less. You have 11,000 bucks in that business account. Those seem like reasonable numbers. I\u2019m sure you arrived at that through similar logic. You have 30,000 as your number for emergency reserve.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re probably feeling really uncomfortable if that ever dips below like 15, and it probably never does is what would be my guess. You\u2019re just like pull a little bit out, replenish it. That\u2019s the point. That\u2019s exactly how you do it. And then everything else goes into\u2026 You\u2019ve already made your determination. Your prioritization is short-term mental. It\u2019s not index funds. It\u2019s not your 401(k)s. You\u2019ve already determined that. That\u2019s why everything else is going to the investment for that.<\/p>\n
I think it\u2019s perfect, and I think your next step is you can fiddle with that if you need to, but it\u2019s a great system. I love it. And now you\u2019ve got the surplus going, ready to be invested into real estate in your short-term rental. Can we hear about what you\u2019re thinking from the short-term side?<\/p>\n
Yeah. Something I wanted to say about that. Currently, I am also investing into retirement and so is Wade. I feel that we are in our early thirties and we are just starting our \u201ctraditional retirement savings.\u201d This was something I wanted to ask you guys. We feel like we just started. I\u2019m like, do we need to be\u2026 Right now I put in about $1,000 a month into either a Roth IRA or the SEP IRA. I don\u2019t know. How much do you put in?<\/p>\n
It depends. Right now I\u2019m putting most of my extra money towards the savings towards the short-term rental. But when we don\u2019t have a big goal, I do about 20% of my net income will go towards my retirement accounts. That\u2019s kind of what I\u2019ve been doing for the last six months or I guess last year.<\/p>\n
What Chelsea\u2019s saying is like we\u2019re trying to figure out, do we try to come at this goal of a short-term rental in a more balanced perspective of still putting money towards our retirement accounts, our index funds essentially, and save up as best as we can for the short-term rental, or do we go like all in and put in all of our extra cash towards saving for the short-term rental so that we can buy it sooner than later?<\/p>\n
Well, I think that\u2026 As long as you get the money in, in the calendar year into your retirement vehicles, it shouldn\u2019t\u2026 It\u2019s kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other, as my mom used to say. It\u2019s the same thing. I think it doesn\u2019t quite matter there. I think it\u2019s whatever you feel is the one that\u2019s going to get you to your goals faster, which my instincts based on what we\u2019ve talked about just this far is going to be the short-term rental. Let\u2019s think about it.<\/p>\n
Over the course of 2022, if things go the same as last year, you\u2019re going to generate 60,000 additional dollars or let\u2019s call it 45, 40,000 additional dollars, because we\u2019re now at the end of April with this, right? That\u2019s going to be $74,000 that you can add to your other cash savings to buy the short-term rental. How much do you need from a down payment to buy that property?<\/p>\n
We\u2019re still kind of in the research phase right now. We\u2019ve thought about probably a property around 600 or 700,000. In order to get to like the 10%, we\u2019re going to need 60 to $80,000 in cash. But with closing expenses and all there is with the short-term rental, maybe a little bit more, so maybe like 90 is probably more realistic of what we would really want.<\/p>\n
And just to clarify, we\u2019re looking to buy a short-term rental in a traditional sort of short-term rental market, like Smoky Mountains or Florida, Joshua Tree. We\u2019re kind of looking at some of these more traditional places and willing to put quite a bit down so that we can see more residual income every month from it.<\/p>\n
Okay. Well, you are in position to do that right now. Your cash position would allow for that if you were to pull that from these other places. You\u2019re probably uncomfortable with doing that, which I think is great. It\u2019s a great mentality to have with the way you manage your cash, but you have $110,000 in cash right now to buy that short-term rental.<\/p>\n
One way to reframe that would be to bucket all of your cash together into one lump and say, \u201cWhat is the lump amount that would make me feel comfortable with my overall cash position to move towards that?\u201d The other option is keep doing what you\u2019re doing and pile on that amount. You know that you\u2019ll get there within 12 months, you\u2019ll be able to generate about $60,000 and be probably at the minimum threshold to comfortably buy that investment with your outside cash position. I see Mindy shaking her head here.<\/p>\n
That gives me the heebie-jeebies to suggest that because that\u2019s every single penny that they have thrown into one investment, and then there\u2019s not really a buffer.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m not saying they should do that. I\u2019m saying that they could do that, right? It\u2019s their conservative nature that is going to put them in there, probably appropriately to some degree. It doesn\u2019t have to be a year from now. You could look at your situation and say it is reasonably responsible for you guys to have $50,000 in cash across all of your cash accounts based on the numbers you provided us instead of $110,000 in cash, right, across all of those different accounts.<\/p>\n
To run your life out of one big bucket, because there\u2019s nothing preventing you at the end of the day from taking a distribution from your businesses or committing capital back into your business, right? You literally just move the money from one bank to the next if you want to do it in order to take care of that. That\u2019s more what I\u2019m saying is you can do that right away and you can probably still contribute something to your retirement accounts this year because of the surplus cash that you currently have and the cash flow that you\u2019re going to generate.<\/p>\n
I think this is one of those cases where you have to prioritize to some degree. You can\u2019t probably max out your contributions to I guess your SEP IRAs and your Roths this year, but you can do some good damage there and still probably accumulate\u2026 Put yourself in position to buy that short-term rental by the end of the year, I would think.<\/p>\n
Yeah. That\u2019s what kind of we were thinking too is by the end of the year.<\/p>\n
I guess another question I have for you guys too is, do you think it\u2019s like smart for us to try to purchase a home that\u2019s a little bit more money, that has the potential to have higher earnings, or do we be more conservative and purchase a home maybe in the 400 range, but has way less earning potential? Is it worth that risk of spending more for more money?<\/p>\n
Well, I think you invest for ROI, right? And in your case, that\u2019s just a matter of delaying by a few months if you think to stock up more cash, right? You save up 400 versus 600, that\u2019s a third bigger, so you need to save a third more cash in order to put that down to generate that. As long as you\u2019re not going to be crushed by the mortgage payment, which you have to underwrite too, but I like investing for ROI.<\/p>\n
I\u2019d rather have one investment that produces a great return that\u2019s a little bigger than a smaller investment that produces less net return, less ROI, less IRR.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that was kind of our thought too.<\/p>\n
My thought with regards to demand is I have a really, really big family, like enormously big family, and there aren\u2019t that many properties that we can all fit into comfortably. There\u2019s like six in America that can fit us all and they\u2019re always booked up because there\u2019s only\u2026 I\u2019m talking they sleep 60 people, where it\u2019s a huge house that sleeps 60 people. Those are always booked up. Yes, it\u2019s going to cost like a lot more than $600,000, but there\u2019s a huge demand because there\u2019s no supply.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s something to consider. I mean, obviously not a 60 sleeper, but maybe there\u2019s people that are looking for 14 or 20 sleepers that you can\u2026 A little bit more initially may yield a lot more\u2026 A lot less vacancy because somebody is always looking for that. Oh, well, I\u2019ll just reschedule my vacation for when this is available. I know that\u2019s how we scheduled our vacation is when they actually had a weekend that was available for us.<\/p>\n
I wouldn\u2019t have thought that there were a lot of demand for big properties like that.<\/p>\n
I think it\u2019ll 100% vary by market, right? If you\u2019re interested in investing anywhere in the country, there\u2019s no reason why you can\u2019t find a similar ROI at 400,000 price point as 600,000 price point. If there are specific markets that you\u2019re studying and know really well, that may well be the case and that may splay your decision there.<\/p>\n
For example, I wonder aloud right now like the best way to generate ROI in like Denver, Colorado would be to buy a million dollar property with an ADU and a single family house on it and live in the ADU and Airbnb at the single family house, because you can\u2019t Airbnb property in Denver, unless you live in the property as your primary residence. Probably very few people who can actually purchase a million dollar single family residents are willing to do that.<\/p>\n
Therefore, there\u2019s going to be very limited competition and lots of demand for that property. There may be something like that that gives you an advantage in whatever market you\u2019re in. For Mindy\u2019s point, bigger, better, nicer property, more amenities. I think you\u2019re thinking about it great.<\/p>\n
Another thing to think about is the taxes. You\u2019re looking at Florida. Are the Smoky Mountains in Tennessee or Kentucky? I get those two\u2026<\/p>\n
Tennessee is the area that we\u2019re looking at. Tennessee, yeah.<\/p>\n
I get those states confused. Florida, Tennessee, and California, not knowing anything about any of these, I know California\u2019s going to have super high taxes. I know they\u2019re going to have income taxes. I know they\u2019re going to have, if you do an LLC in California, they\u2019re going to have LLC taxes. Not doing any research at all, that\u2019s going to be at the bottom of my list simply for the taxes. It doesn\u2019t matter if you live there or not, I believe. Florida is very tax friendly. I think they have lower taxes.<\/p>\n
I know that Smoky Mountains is the number one most visited national park in the country because it\u2019s so close to like two-thirds of the population of the country or something like that. That\u2019s a really great market. They had a fire a few years ago that like wiped out all of everything. They don\u2019t have a ton of property. They\u2019ve been rebuilding, but their rules are more relaxed I believe with regards to rental properties like this. I think it took out a lot of hotels too, but it\u2019s been long enough that I can\u2019t really remember now.<\/p>\n
Of these three areas, I like the Smoky Mountains best. I would reach out to a real estate agent and just ask like, \u201cWhat can I expect from a property in this area? What am I looking to pay? What is my vacancy rate going to be? And what are my taxes going to be?\u201d If I can make the same amount of money in Florida as I can Smoky Mountains, but for half the price, then maybe Florida\u2019s looking better.<\/p>\n
If I have less occupancy in Florida, then maybe Smoky Mountains looks better. I\u2019m sorry to throw California under the bus. I love it.<\/p>\n
Where do you live right now?<\/p>\n
We in Western, Colorado.<\/p>\n
We\u2019re in Colorado.<\/p>\n
Oh, Grand Junction. Grand Junction.<\/p>\n
Grand Junction. Why not consider the areas local to Grand Junction like Palisade? Why go out of state?<\/p>\n
We\u2019ve definitely thought about that. We\u2019re just kind of doing\u2026 Kind of in the beginning of this journey too with even just reading general things about having a short-term rental. I just don\u2019t know the market of short-term rental here very well, but I know that tons of people actually obviously come to Palisade for the wineries and tons of people come to Fruita for the mountain biking.<\/p>\n
There\u2019s definitely need here, I think, but it would be a good, like Mindy says, research opportunity to look into, because that could be a really great route to go, especially maybe for our first property. Because it\u2019s local, we maybe have that comfort that we could just zoom over if we needed to kind of thing.<\/p>\n
Don\u2019t they have world class fishing and elk hunting over near Fruita and Craig and like all that area? I was talking to somebody who was saying that there\u2019s a need for that as well. That\u2019s not my thing, so I don\u2019t know. But somebody else\u2026<\/p>\n
Definitely on the Colorado River there\u2019s lots of fly fishing that\u2019s hugely popular. More towards the mountainous areas, like the hunting lodges are super popular for sure. In Fruita, like in like the city like Grand Junction and then there\u2019s Palisade and Fruita, there\u2019s not a ton of like hunting tourists that come to the town. In Fruita, there\u2019s the bike riders and then hikers, outdoorsy people, and then Palisade is the wine. There\u2019s lots of wineries. There is definitely lots of potential where we live.<\/p>\n
The hard part is there\u2019s not a whole lot of houses available. It\u2019s just that the market\u2019s super hot right now. Everybody wants to buy stuff. When we bought our house last year, we sold our old home and I think we had 10 offers in the matter of like 24 hours. We got like $30,000 over asking price. In Colorado, in general, it\u2019s just a really hot market. I think that\u2019s why we\u2019re like, do we want to like try to buy in this crazy market right now. But in a sense, it\u2019s kind of like that everywhere really.<\/p>\n
I think that\u2019s how I would think about it. It\u2019s going to be like the whole nation has got issues around those types of things. What it comes down to is I think in terms of ROI, right? The major advantage to investing 20 minutes, 30 minutes away from where you live is going to be the ability for you to self-manage the property in the early days and learn a bunch of those things instead of paying that fee to somebody else. And that\u2019s not going to be a 10% management fee for a short-term rental.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s going to be 18% or a significantly higher one. And that\u2019s not including the cleaning fee, by the way. This is not saying you\u2019re going to go and clean the prop\u2026 Although you can do that as well to save money, but that\u2019s the\u2026 The management costs will be significant for a lot of these short-term rentals. If you can at least get started with that, you\u2019re going to be able to\u2026<\/p>\n
By the way, just trying to self-manage something in the Rocky Mountains, you don\u2019t know if there\u2019s like certain times of year that have actually really high tourist activity in the Rocky Mountains because of this event that happens at this point in the year or whatever. You do know that for Palisade, so you\u2019re going to be able to put in place the right pricing at those times of the year. Oh, this is my heavy demand time where I need to make all my money, and this is the light demand time where I\u2019m going to make less.<\/p>\n
I want to pounce on a long-term\u2026 Someone who wants to stay there for three months in this part of the year, or whatever that is. Those will be advantages that you\u2019ll get, especially in the early years, I think from investing locally as a bias as opposed to somewhere you don\u2019t know as well, because you don\u2019t live in there. It all comes down to ROI. If it\u2019s close, the tie goes, in my opinion, to something that\u2019s highly local to you. If it\u2019s not close, then you go out of state. That would be how I bias you to think.<\/p>\n
Yeah, we also have Moab like an hour away and a lot of people go to Moab. There\u2019s a lot of opportunity.<\/p>\n
Moab\u2019s kind of expensive too.<\/p>\n
Who\u2019d we talk to that wanted to build huts next to Moab?<\/p>\n
Oh yeah, I can\u2019t remember. We thought about that, like build a tiny house somewhere.<\/p>\n
I think there\u2019s a lot of stuff in your back door that is maybe not your back door, but I think lots of people around the country are probably thinking like, \u201cWell, Colorado is a great place for short-term rentals for a whole bunch of reasons,\u201d even as you guys are thinking about going somewhere else. Something to think about. I would at least explore it. If it doesn\u2019t work out, go somewhere else.<\/p>\n
What I am gathering at the strategic level is you\u2019re still early into this journey and you probably have six more months of research and self-education to do before buying your first property. What that might do is you\u2019re probably going to accumulate that cash that\u2019s going to put you in position to buy that within the next six to 12 months, regardless of whether you max out your retirement accounts or not.<\/p>\n
If you\u2019re not sure, and you\u2019re still in the research phase, maybe you do bias more towards the retirement accounts and those types of things for this year or for the next couple of months, and then kind of get more aggressive about stockpiling the cash when you have much more clarity on what you want to do from a real estate investment standpoint. That\u2019d be maybe one takeaway from this conversation that might be worth considering.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I think that\u2019s good. Like you were saying, not quite at the point where we have all of our ducks in a row as far as our education. We\u2019ve been researching the Smoky Mountains and like Destin, Florida, Emerald Coast area quite a bit. We know a lot about that, and we\u2019ve looked at kind of just online, just looked at properties and what the ROI would be and that kind of stuff, but we have not really looked around us at all. I think that is a really good suggestion for sure.<\/p>\n
I think there will be\u2026 If you\u2019re going to find an inefficiency or, another way of putting that, a good deal, it\u2019s probably going to be local to you as well. There will be something that, \u201cOh, this is exactly what the market needs and I need to make these changes and that\u2019s how I\u2019ll do it.\u201d That\u2019s going to be a lot harder in Destin for you, unless you\u2019re from there, for example. I know that market particularly well for some reason.<\/p>\n
Yeah, cool.<\/p>\n
All right. Are there any other areas that we want to explore here and talk about?<\/p>\n
Yeah. There was one more area of regarding our kids\u2019 college fund. I haven\u2019t really heard a lot of talk about this, so I think this would be a great conversation to have. I\u2019m not sure that our kids will go to college. Times are changing. Things are changing. You can do so much now without going to college. Wade didn\u2019t go to college. I went to a ridiculous amount of college.<\/p>\n
I think we need to kind of figure out a direction to go with this because we\u2019ve kind of just been putting some money in a college savings thinking, okay, we want to save something for our kids, but we don\u2019t really know what to do. I think ideally I would like to save in an account that\u2019s more flexible than a college account, even if it doesn\u2019t have the super, super tax benefits to it, just so that we can utilize that money how we need to at that point for them.<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know. Do you guys have any thoughts on this for saving for kids?<\/p>\n
And our kids are seven and four.<\/p>\n
I have lots of thoughts on this. I have two kids. They are 15 and 12, so way closer to college age than yours are. You have saved $6,000 for your kids, and that is $6,000 more than I have saved for my kids for college. I do believe that my kids are going to go to college, at least the older one, but that\u2019s not for sure, for sure because you never know what your kids are going to do.<\/p>\n
I didn\u2019t want to save in a 529 plan because if I put in $10,000 and then she doesn\u2019t go to college, but it has grown to $29,000 over the course of her life, I only have $10,000 for me. If I want to pull it back out, all I get is what I put in. I don\u2019t get all those gains. I don\u2019t know where they go, but they don\u2019t go to meet. They don\u2019t go to her. I could reallocate that to her little sister if she was going to go. I could give it to a niece or a nephew, but I don\u2019t get them back.<\/p>\n
Whereas if I put that money into an investment account, all of that money is mine, or I can use it for her college, or I can put her through wedding planner school or film school or whatever she wants to do. I can use that money how I choose, or she can say, \u201cI\u2019m leaving the house that I\u2019m never going to talk to you again, and then it\u2019s still my money.\u201d That\u2019s a horrible situation to be in, but I don\u2019t want to give that control to somebody else. Because you have $6,000 in there, I would just opt to leave it\u2026<\/p>\n
If I was in your position, I would opt to leave it, and I would open up an after tax brokerage account in my name, not in the child\u2019s name, and put money into there for their college or just put money in there and use it for college when it comes up or use it however you want because it\u2019s your money. Now, that is going to\u2026 Because it\u2019s an after tax brokerage account, that\u2019s going to count against your income or assets for FAFSA, but that\u2019s a problem for 10 years down the road.<\/p>\n
I completely agree with Mindy I think at the highest level in principle there. I\u2019ll add in that I speculate that college education costs are going to come down in real dollars relative to inflation over the next 10, 15, 20 years. The reasons why I think that will happen first have to do with the amount of student loan debt out there. Either one political party is going to come in and forgive a large amount of that debt.<\/p>\n
After that happens, you\u2019d think that there will be new restrictions on new access to debt to fund college, which will reduce ease of which people can get loans and therefore bring costs down, demand down, right? Another party may not do that and there will be a reform of student loan debt at some point in the future regardless, if some of those events happen. I think there\u2019s going to be a student loan restructuring at some point in the next decade or two that will impact college affordability.<\/p>\n
We are also becoming more and more, I think, cognizant as a society about the ROI of college and how it may not be necessary for a lot of things. I think it will be less of a you\u2019re going to college and more of a calculated decision depending on your career field. I think for those reasons it may be a risk that folks are over saving for college, not in the short-term, not in three to five years, but maybe in 10 to 15 years perhaps. That\u2019s a speculation.<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s right, but that\u2019s what I\u2019m going to speculate on personally for my family. And then second, I think that if you do want to pay for college, a better way to pay for college\u2026 Well, a way to do that in conjunction with what I just said is just build wealth in general in real estate or stock accounts or whatever it is that you\u2019re investing in.<\/p>\n
And then use that wealth to provide benefits for your family like private school if your kid ever needs that for some reason, for a special reason, or a college, or a trip around the world, or tuba lessons if they\u2019re superstar at that, whatever it is. That I think is a more beneficial way to just build general flexibility. The 529 plan does not offer that for the most part. I probably won\u2019t contribute much at all to a 529 plan with a possible exception of I know my kid\u2019s going to college.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m two years away from college. I\u2019ve got a pretty good, clear idea of what college is going to cost, and I\u2019m going to take advantage of that plan in the short-term here to put that money in and take it right back out for college in a few years. I might do that at the ending stages if I\u2019m getting really close to college. That would be how I think about the 529 plan and saving it for college at a high level.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I really like that.<\/p>\n
And just a couple of weeks ago, we released an episode with Robert Farrington from thecollegeinvestor.com episode 297, where we talk about paying for college and saving for college in lots of different avenues. I think it was episode 41 or 44 with Zach Gautier where we talked about different ways to pay for college as well. Both of those are really great episodes to listen to.<\/p>\n
And we had episode 251 with Preston Cooper, where he talked about the ROI of a college degree, something to consider before you put yourself or your children through college. He was just back last week on episode 293, or a few weeks ago on episode 293, talking about the ROI of a graduate degree. Things to consider as you\u2019re getting closer to college age.<\/p>\n
I mean, that\u2019s not imminent for you, but those are just different ways to save. In both of those episodes, there\u2019s longer term and shorter term ways to save for college.<\/p>\n
Cool. I like that.<\/p>\n
It would just be a shame to have a lot of money in the 529 plan and then not use it for that. That\u2019s not the worst problem in the world. There\u2019s other ways to deal with it. You can just be like, if I\u2019m going to build a couple hundred thousand dollars in wealth over the next 10 years via investment vehicles, like short-term rentals, I\u2019d rather just be able to use that for whatever the heck I want, including college, and take a little bit of a tax hit or less tax advantage situation than have it all kind of locked up in there and then have to get creative in terms of dealing with it once it\u2019s in the plan.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Is there anything else you wanted to talk about?<\/p>\n
Yeah. I was curious about if you guys had any thoughts on the health insurance situation. I know that that was something you mentioned in the intro, Mindy. Maybe you had some ideas about that. Currently we do not have health insurance and we have a medical sharing plan, as well as a membership to a general family doctor that we pay for monthly.<\/p>\n
We have had some health issues actually come up in our family within the last year, where it\u2019s looking like we are going to need some sort of traditional ongoing insurance. We have some kids that need some speech therapy and occupational therapy and meds and regular therapy and all the things. It is looking like more of a traditional plan is going to be something we will be moving towards within the next year or two.<\/p>\n
I was going to say, when I first saw this in your notes, I was reminded of a recent bankruptcy by Sharity Ministries, which was formerly known as Trinity Healthcare. They basically just said, \u201cWe can\u2019t afford all of this, so we\u2019re shutting down.\u201d The healthcare system in America is broken and needs to be fixed, but the health sharing\u2026 I have friends who really love health shares, and I have friends who have been stuck with big bills because the health sharing decided not to pay it.<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t like traditional insurance, but I think that\u2019s going to be the best way to go about it. I don\u2019t know if a health savings account and a high deductible plan is going to be best for you. Somebody was listening to the show a few months ago and said that in almost every case, a health sharing plan is better than a traditional plan when you take into account the premiums and the premium deductible and the fact that the health sharing account can grow. That\u2019s another reason-<\/p>\n
You mean HSA plan.<\/p>\n
An HSA, yes. I\u2019m sorry.<\/p>\n
Health savings, yeah.<\/p>\n
Yeah, health savings plan. Yes. Thank you, Scott. That\u2019s what I was thinking.<\/p>\n
I\u2019d agree with that. You guys have a great cash position, so there\u2019s no\u2026 You don\u2019t want to get crushed by a huge medical bill with that, but you can have a high deductible, I think, given your cash position and probably will be able to arbitrage that, although that will depend on the specifics of your personal situation. Let me zoom back out for a second here though and say this why do you guys work in your own businesses instead of one of you taking a job that pays similar?<\/p>\n
What\u2019s the rationale for that? There could be further reason. There\u2019s a lot of advantages. I just want to hear you guys think through it.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I think that\u2019s a great question. Yeah, for sure. I\u2019ve run my own business for about 12 years, so I don\u2019t really know what it\u2019s like, honestly, to work for a staff position. I have a lot of benefits to running my own business where I can make my own schedule. I don\u2019t have to answer to somebody. I don\u2019t feel like I have a glass ceiling above me as far as my income goes. And just my personality. I like to work on various projects a lot.<\/p>\n
I feel like if I work on the same thing over and over again, I get bored and I don\u2019t put a ton of my creative energy into it. I would say that for me, I just really like the benefits of having my own business more than having the security of a staff position. That\u2019s for me.<\/p>\n
For me, I could easily go out and get a job with the degree that I have for an agency doing mental health counseling. That would be very easy to do. That\u2019s a lot though. Working in mental health is a very hard job. I own my own business because I want to have the flexibility and the autonomy and the freedom to do whatever I want. That\u2019s sort of my personality anyway, is I don\u2019t really want people to tell me what to do.<\/p>\n
Having the flexibility to do that is really cool, because I can work three days a week and do the amount of number of sessions that I want versus somebody telling me, \u201cI need you to do 35 sessions a week,\u201d and then me just walking around as a burnt out zombie. It would be really hard. That\u2019s kind of why.<\/p>\n
I think that\u2019s great. I will just say that\u2019s another one I would just challenge you to at least explore, right? Corporate life maybe isn\u2019t so bad as what you\u2019re making it out to be in some of these cases with it. You might be able to negotiate some flexibility, for example, or find a position that gives you some of those benefits and that would solve your healthcare problem to a large degree if one of you guys were to consider that.<\/p>\n
Not a deal breaker. You clearly are working around that right now with things, but you will have expensive options from a self-employed perspective, the same challenges that people who are just financially free or full-time real estate investors or full-time agents will face from an expense standpoint.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I think that\u2019s a good point to really think about. Because with the even trying to go into real estate, it is harder for us to get a loan because we are self-employed. Even if we do have the years of income to back it up, it\u2019s still a lengthier and more difficult process. At least it was when we were buying our two primary residences that we\u2019ve bought before. So that.<\/p>\n
And then I think looking at the specifics of if I were to make\u2026 Because it would probably be me. If I were to make a certain amount of money working for somebody else, how much money that would be with the healthcare already taken care of in a sense. I know I\u2019d have to pay some versus how much we\u2019re going to have to pay out of pocket for healthcare.<\/p>\n
I think there will be a decision to make there. Absolutely, you will have to make your employer much more money than you cost, which is the deal with that. But it could be that it brings in more income, provides similar flexibility, and gives you healthcare options depending on how that goes. It may provide financing opportunities. If those trade-offs are unacceptable from a time perspective, you guys are going to get rich one way or the other.<\/p>\n
You spend a lot less than you earn and have a really strong position. But just something to think about as we\u2019re doing that is maybe revisit that assumption and at least explore it because it would make a lot of these issues easier in the short run.<\/p>\n
Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n
Yeah, it makes sense.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s kind of what I was thinking too, Scott. I\u2019m glad you brought it up because now you\u2019re the bad guy.<\/p>\n
We\u2019re supposed to tell you how to quit your job, right, on the show? Is that how that works?<\/p>\n
Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n
Instead of go get a job.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
But I wonder if there could be flexibility to that, because just because I work for somebody doesn\u2019t mean I could also not own my own business on the side. The goal for me actually is to not be a therapist when our kids graduate from high school and to move into more of maybe like an online business or a coaching type position so that there\u2019s even more flexibility, because I anticipate Wade probably traveling a lot more at that point once his career starts moving and he doesn\u2019t have to be home all the time because we have kids.<\/p>\n
Something to think about, I will tell you at BiggerPockets, some of our team members work 32 hours a week or 30 hours a week or whatever with that. There will be some rules like, if you\u2019re not full-time, we can\u2019t give you the full benefits. There\u2019s some legal things and all that stuff. You\u2019ll probably have to meet some minimum cutoffs in order to qualify for certain benefits with that, but there may be plenty of flexibility and opportunities out there, depending on what you\u2019re interested in.<\/p>\n
This was a lot of fun. I had a great time talking to you guys. I think you\u2019ve got a lot of opportunities available.<\/p>\n
We want to keep going until you\u2019re you\u2019re feeling good.<\/p>\n
Do you have questions?<\/p>\n
No.<\/p>\n
Do you guys have questions for us?<\/p>\n
No, I think we got a great snapshot of your position. It sounds like you had a great journey to get here. You\u2019ve got a very disciplined budget, consistent income in spite of the being self-employed. That speaks to a lot of discipline and hustle over a long period of time. It appears to me that you\u2019ve come into this like position of having this surplus and having some of the options to begin exploring more serious investments, I\u2019ll call it, in a very recent past and really have all your ducks in a row at this point.<\/p>\n
And now it\u2019s kind of a directional thing. Do I want to go into short terms? Do I want to go into long-term investing in my 401(k)? Those types of things. I think there\u2019s an art to that. There\u2019s not really a right answer. I think we got through a good amount of that. I think you\u2019ve got big assumptions. The challenge is the self-employment always the right path. Certainly it\u2019s working for you guys, but it could be reassessed to make it easier.<\/p>\n
If one of you were to get a job, that would solve some of your problems here, or at least go a long way towards that. And then I think that the college savings, we gave our opinion on that. We don\u2019t really have a right answer. I love the way you manage your cash for the most part. I think it\u2019s a really smart way given your current situation. If one of you were to get a job, that would change because you would not likely need to have quite as much cash either in your businesses or in your personal reserve.<\/p>\n
Okay. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Wade and Chelsea, and we will talk to you soon.<\/p>\n
All right. Thank you.<\/p>\n
That was Chelsea and Wade, and I think they have a lot of things going for them. First of all, we didn\u2019t celebrate enough that they\u2019re literally spending like 50% of their income. It just may not seem like it when they\u2019re in the middle of the month or two or three in a row where they have less than what they\u2019re thinking about spending.<\/p>\n
I mean, they\u2019ve crushed it. This is something that we see now fairly frequently on the Money Show where we\u2019ve got a couple who\u2019s really mastered the basics of money, have a good framework in place, and are just kind of popping up after several years of having paid off debt and built this stable financial position. They\u2019re like, \u201cWhat do I do now?\u201d That\u2019s a great thing. It\u2019s exciting because you\u2019ve paid off that debt. You\u2019ve got the cash position. You\u2019re starting to do the retirement accounts.<\/p>\n
The surplus is there, and now the ocean of opportunities is exploding in front of you and it\u2019s overwhelming. Do I go into real estate? Do I do this with my business? Do I invest in this avenue? Do I invest in this one? Because the path has opened up so much because of the good habits that you\u2019ve put in place. I think that\u2019s really fun, because it\u2019s kind of hard to see that other side while you\u2019re in the grind of paying off the debt, for example, which it seems like they popped up out of fairly recently the last couple years.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s exciting and fun. And now it\u2019s about kind of forming a plan and prioritizing that and being comfortable with the choices. Those choices can involve investing in 401(k)s or self-directed IRAs or SEP IRAs, depending on whether you\u2019re self-employed or employed, investing in real estate, investing in stocks, yada, yada. It\u2019s just about what you want and how you\u2019re going to back into that.<\/p>\n
I really liked your suggestion to look a little bit more local for their first property. I thought that was a great idea. I think that there\u2019s going to be a lot of opportunity that maybe they don\u2019t really\u2026 They hadn\u2019t considered just because it\u2019s so close and our market is expensive, but it\u2019s also really desirable. There\u2019s people that are coming here all the time to take advantage of what we\u2019ve got here.<\/p>\n
When your property is an hour away, you\u2019re not necessarily going to drive to it all the time, but you could drive to it if you had to. It\u2019s a lot easier to drive an hour than it is to hop on a plane to go to Florida to check out your property.<\/p>\n
Yeah. My wife and I vacation in Palisade, which is like right where they go, and we stay at an Airbnb. We spend lots of money there and think it\u2019s a great experience. It\u2019s just kind of funny to me. Oh, great. I\u2019m going to go out of state to the Rocky Mountain. I\u2019ve never been to the Rocky Mountain. What was it? The Smoky Mountains to vacation before. Maybe I\u2019ll go there someday, but that\u2019s like a\u2026 It\u2019s just like, oh, this is in our back door. People come from all over to go hang out where you live at various times in the year.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I like that idea. I hope they look into it a lot more. Scott, should we get out of here?<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s do it.<\/p>\n
You know what? Before we do, I want to invite people to apply to be on the show. If you would like us to review your finances, please apply at biggerpockets.com\/financereview. And if you would like to tell your money story, apply at biggerpockets.com\/guest. Okay, now, from episode 306 of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, he is Scott Trench and I am Mindy Jensen saying grab your pillow, armadillo.<\/p>\n