\n<\/p>\n
Real estate investors<\/strong> are a hard-working bunch. They put in long hours<\/strong> every day to create passive income and find <\/strong>financial freedom<\/strong><\/a>. Many investors resort to doing what they hate, day in and day out, simply to escape the clutches of a nine-to-five job. If you\u2019re a rookie real estate investor, you\u2019re probably the property manager<\/a>, head of acquisitions, tenant contact, and accountant all rolled into one. But this \u201call or nothing\u201d way of working could slow you down<\/strong> faster than you know.<\/p>\n If you want to take your wealth to the next level<\/strong>, try quitting\u2014it\u2019s what Pat Hiban<\/strong> and Tim Rhode<\/strong> have been doing for decades. As two successful <\/strong>real estate agents<\/strong><\/a>, they enjoyed the negotiation games that eventually led to large commission checks. But as the years went by, this non-stop grind took its toll<\/strong>\u2014so much that they both gave up very profitable professions to do what they love. Surprisingly, the \u201cdo what you love\u201d lifestyle made them even more money than before!<\/p>\n This is all well and good for a couple of veteran investors, but what about our real estate rookies?<\/strong> What about you, listening to this with one, two, or ten deals? How do you take a step back and become a quitter like Pat and Tim<\/strong>? Can you really make more money by doing less<\/strong>, and even if you could, how do you take the first step? In their new book, The Quitter\u2019s Manifesto<\/em><\/strong><\/a>,<\/em> Pat and Tim lay out the exact team and strategy you need to go from burnout to big checks <\/strong>with far less effort.<\/p>\n Ashley: Pat: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tim: Ashley: Tim: Ashley: Pat: Ashley: Pat: Ashley: Tim: Tony: Tim: Tony: Pat: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Pat: Tim: Ashley: Tim: Pat: Ashley: Pat: Ashley: Tim: Pat: Tony: Pat: Ashley: Pat: Ashley: Tim: Tony: Tim: Tony: Tim: Pat: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Pat: Tim: Tony: Tim: Tony: Pat: Tony: Tim: Tony: Tim: Tony: Ashley: Tim: Ashley: Pat: Tim: Ashley: Tim: Pat: Ashley: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/i>sponsor page<\/a><\/i>!<\/i><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is Real Estate Rookie episode 216.<\/p>\n
And I think the number one rule to being a good mentee is actually taking the advice of the mentor. A lot of people come to me and I say, \u201cRead this book and do this, and do that,\u201d and I never hear from them again. But when I hear back from somebody that\u2019s like, \u201cPat, I read all three of the books. Here\u2019s a picture of all the notes I took. I did exactly what you said. I went out there and did this and did that,\u201d I\u2019ll be like, \u201cGreat. Stay in touch.\u201d<\/p>\n
My name is Ashley Kehr, and I\u2019m here with my co-host, Tony Robinson.<\/p>\n
And welcome to the Real Estate Rookie Podcast where every week, twice a week, we\u2019ll bring you the inspiration, information, education, and motivation you need to kickstart your investing journey. And I\u2019d usually like to start the shows by giving a quick shout out to the folks that have left us a review. This week\u2019s review comes from Yuri to Wealth, and she says, \u201cBest podcast for people getting started.\u201d Yuri says, \u201cThis podcast has helped me stay motivated and want to level up and become financially free. It amazes me hearing other people\u2019s stories, and I always learned a thing or two from every episode. I am so glad this podcast exists.\u201d So, Yuri, we appreciate that. And if you haven\u2019t yet, please leave an honest rating and review on whatever platform you\u2019re listening to. The more reviews we get, the more folks we can reach. More folks to reach, more folks we help. So Ashley, we\u2019ve got a really, really good episode lineup for today, right? Two just absolute juggernaut to the game. One of them is a self described OG, legit real estate investor. So, I\u2019m excited for people to listen today.<\/p>\n
Yeah, we have Pat and Tim on today who just wrote the book for BiggerPockets, The Quitter\u2019s Manifesto, and they are going to break down why this is important for a rookie investor to actually take a read. They go through as to how they quit their careers to go into new careers or new passions. And a big thing they brought up several times is that the goal was to not do any obligations but to do your passions, to do what you wanted to do. And I think that\u2019s really awesome and sometimes all of us need that reminder in life.<\/p>\n
Yeah. That part really struck a chord with me. They talked about moving from 100% obligation to 100% interest, and I feel, right now, I\u2019m 90% obligation, even 95% obligation, 5% interest. So, that part really resonated with me, and more so, they give you some instruction on how to do that. So first, these guys, they run the company called GoBundance. So basically, their entire working life, all they do is talk, and teach, and network with super successful entrepreneurs in all forms of business.<\/p>\n
Let\u2019s just name drop and say Brandon Turner, David Greene, [inaudible 00:02:55] and look at them. That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n
Exactly. And there\u2019s a lot of other really successful folks in that group. And both Pat and Tim have a knowledge of things to just open up your mind as an entrepreneur. They talked about journaling and how to make that the most useful. We spent a good chunk of this episode talking about mentorship, and not just the benefits of it, but practical, tactical ways you can go out and find a mentor that I think will really resonate with a lot of the folks that are earlier on in their journey.<\/p>\n
And how to be a good mentee too, I think it\u2019s really important that they talk about.<\/p>\n
So many good things. And they also talk about the progression you go through in your business, when it comes to you\u2019re starting out at the ground level and what it looks like once you\u2019ve built a successful business and how to get there. So, this conversation usually could have gone on for two hours. These guys are phenomenal, a wealth of knowledge, and I\u2019m excited for you guys to hear it.<\/p>\n
Tim and Pat, welcome to the show. Thank you guys so much for joining us. Can we get started with Tim, maybe you going first, and just telling us a little bit about yourself and who you are?<\/p>\n
Sure. Well, I was the least likely to succeed in your class, going back to high school. Barely graduated high school, never went to college, and at 25, I was a part-time grocery clerk, not getting enough hours and trying to do side hustles to make money for my two small kids. Then I found my niche selling real estate. I sold a lot of real estate, I was damn good at it, really concentrated on coming through for whoever I went to work for. And then I also invested a lot in real estate while I was in the trenches. And I sold 17 properties with 52 tenants in 2008 right into the Cali craze, and tapped out and retired. And candidly, I\u2019ve never worked since. So, that\u2019s-<\/p>\n
That\u2019s quite the story.<\/p>\n
Yeah. It was fun. Yeah. So, we wrote this book, Quitter\u2019s Manifesto, about how to quit whatever you\u2019re doing. And Pat and I are the original quitters and we become very, very good at quitting what\u2019s behind us to tap dance to the next incarnation. So, that\u2019s what this book\u2019s all about and we\u2019re excited to share it with your listeners.<\/p>\n
Pat, what about you? Who are you? What\u2019s your story?<\/p>\n
Who is Pat Hiban? I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m in a lot of therapy to try to figure that one out.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Let\u2019s dig deep here.<\/p>\n
So, a little bit different story than Tim. I went to college but I got a 2.3 GPA in sociology. And I found I couldn\u2019t get hired really, the jobs weren\u2019t big for sociologists. So, I got into a job with the least barrier to entry, and that was real estate sales. And started at 21, worked all the way until 46, 47 years old, selling real estate. Sold a lot of houses, made a lot of commissions one house at a time, and just worked my way through the ranks of about five different major companies. Had my own company, had a mortgage company, had a title company, did everything in that realm. And then I just got out, I just exploded, I don\u2019t want to do it anymore. And that was that. Then at that point, I did a four or five ventures that just failed, that I just seemed like a good idea at the time scratching some itch, but didn\u2019t pay and didn\u2019t work.
So then, eventually, Tim and I, along with a couple other guys, started a men\u2019s mastermind called GoBundance. And now, between our women\u2019s group, our men\u2019s group, and our rookie group, we have over a thousand members, 1,020 members, paying members. Just a miracle really. And then I also started investing. I started buying, first, single family homes, then multi-family homes. I think with my company, DAPT Acquisitions, we have about 2000 doors. But some other various commercial real estate, sold a bunch, and wrote a couple of books, and that\u2019s where I am today.<\/p>\n
Awesome you guys. So, part of the big reason that you guys are here is to talk about your book. So, let\u2019s start with that, let\u2019s go over that. It seems like you guys have accomplished a lot, you have a great stories, but let\u2019s focus on the book and why did you even decide to write this book?<\/p>\n
I think the reason we wrote it is we\u2019ve both done what most want to do but don\u2019t know how to, and that is to go from obligation, 100% obligation, to as much as possible, 100% interest, doing things you love to do. And in the book, we have the interest over obligation quotient and we help people get to, let\u2019s say, 80% doing what they love to do, interest, versus what most have to do, obligation. And that\u2019s one of the premises of the book, that\u2019s one thing Pat and I were able to do, is start in total obligation, that was selling real estate and doing the things we had to do daily, to juggling the other real estate to get us to a place where we could do what we want to do pretty much all the time.
And I found when I tapped out at 40 years old, I started doing a lot of time just getting the goods in the mountains, skiing a hundred days a year, doing things I really wanted to do, and that helped me, as well as Pat, start GoBundance, start DAPT, start figuring out what\u2019s on the other side. And because so many are just focused, they\u2019re on the hamster wheel and can\u2019t get out, and that\u2019s what this book does, is gives you the tools to go to what\u2019s next for you.<\/p>\n
Yeah. So Tim, one follow up to that, I think for a lot of the rookies that are listening, obviously, I think a lot of their goals are to, at some point, focus on the things that interest them and not missed out their obligations. For example, we just interviewed another rookie investor and she said one of the obstacles to her getting started was that the idea of getting to that point seemed so far away that it seemed almost unreachable. So, what is your advice to people that are at the beginning of their journey that hear you guys talking about this wonderful life you\u2019ve built for yourselves, but they don\u2019t quite think that it\u2019s possible to get there?<\/p>\n
Yeah, we would both say that. When we started, we didn\u2019t think of it as possible. I don\u2019t think either of us had this, begin with the end in mind, we\u2019re going to be rich, we\u2019re going to be spending a lot of time just doing the things we want to do, what we did, and Pat could probably back me up on this, it\u2019s a matter of juggling balls. And we all have the career, the family, all the obligations we have, and the challenge is, how do you throw that new ball in, keep those other balls going and not lose one and not drop the whole thing? So, I think that\u2019s the thing, is just taking\u2026 It\u2019s like everybody wants to take the elevator to the top, you got to walk the stairs. And it\u2019s just taking that next stair, whatever that is for you, and you know what it is for you. I shouldn\u2019t say, you know what it is for you, it\u2019s the answer, is getting quiet and seeking advice and getting out in nature to just get quiet enough to get those answers. And that\u2019s the tough part.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I want to follow up to that. You talk about getting quiet, and that\u2019s something I struggle with tremendously. Because we have so many moving pieces in our business, we\u2019re just like, there\u2019s always things to do, and my mind\u2019s always racing. So, that\u2019s just the way that I live my life unfortunately. So, what are some tactical steps that someone like me can take to find some of that quietness, and how do I get the best out of that quiet time, if that makes sense?<\/p>\n
Sure. One thing that Tim and I both do is journal. I probably have a hundred journals. I\u2019ve journaled ever since I got out of college basically. No one I knew journaled growing up until I started meeting other successful people, like Tim and David, and find out that they journaled too. And I think it\u2019s a sign of successful people. What happens when I journal is I manifest things. Every idea that I\u2019ve ever had, every company I\u2019ve ever had, every problem that I\u2019ve ever had, I\u2019ve journaled it out and tried to solve the problem in the journal. And sometimes, it doesn\u2019t get solved in there, or it gets solved by a way I didn\u2019t think of or by accumulative of seven or 10 days of journaling about the same thing. But it all passes through there and I think it\u2019s very effective. It\u2019s therapeutic but it\u2019s also very effective in solving problems and in getting off the dime.
And also, I\u2019m like you, Tony. I\u2019m manic at times and I just come up with ideas, and a lot of them they don\u2019t work, but it\u2019s okay, because once I push them on the page, I might come back to it later and be like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s a dumb idea.\u201d Or I talk to my wife about it and she\u2019ll be like, \u201cI don\u2019t know. That\u2019s not you.\u201d<\/p>\n
Tony, one thing that Brandon Turner has told me that he does is, he\u2019ll get a massage every week and that\u2019s his thinking time. Because you can\u2019t do anything else but lay there and that\u2019s when he has his quiet time to think. So, I would love to do that. So, Tony?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s not a bad idea. That\u2019s not a bad idea.<\/p>\n
Does that mean since it\u2019s for your business, it\u2019s a write off too?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s a write off. It\u2019s got to be.<\/p>\n
Absolutely.<\/p>\n
And I remember when I was in the trenches, just walking outside and taking a walk around the block, if I couldn\u2019t get out, and just getting my heart rate elevated and getting these ideas going through in my head and having a meeting with my board of directors in my head. And then when I had the time, I love the term, getting the goods in the woods, because that\u2019s where all my best ideas ever came from. And whenever I could get out in nature with my heart rate elevated, it was magical and it was like tapping into the universe, if you will, and I come back with just these amazing ideas. I couldn\u2019t wait to have my wife shoot them down, like camps.<\/p>\n
Well, you briefly mentioned about the board of directors, can you expand on that a little bit more?<\/p>\n
Well, there is a piece in this book about having a quit team to help you actually quit, and I think, Pat, you should touch on that. But Napoleon Hill, in this great book, Think and Grow Rich, talked about a board of directors in your head. And if you look at all these different areas of our lives, maybe it\u2019s business, maybe it\u2019s exercise, maybe it\u2019s relationships, having people that are mentors and coaches that help you get clarity of the things that are most important to you. And Pat and I have talked numerous times about this, first of all, both of us have two coaches right now in our lives. We\u2019ve had a series of coaches throughout our lives.
I told you I never went to college, but I wish I would\u2019ve kept score because I know I\u2019ve spent somewhere between 500,000 and a million dollars on education. If you name any of the greats I saw back in the day, Jim Rohn, and Wayne Dyer, and Zig Ziglar, and so many, I could just go on and on with all the different programs I went through, and these people are like my coaches in my head, who I\u2019ll hear their voices. And I think all that helps lead you to beyond what you think is possible.<\/p>\n
Yeah. And I\u2019ll talk on the quitting. For anybody that wants to quit, we recommend creating a quitting team. And on the team, there\u2019s four categories of people. You\u2019ve got stakeholders, number one. Now a stakeholder would be like your spouse, loved ones, basically, someone who\u2019s going to support you, someone who\u2019s going to say I believe in you, someone who is going to listen to you when you tell them how hard it is, and the troubles that you\u2019re having, and not discourage you. Those are your stakeholders, the people that are in this with you, from a side point of view, meaning, family. And the second one is partners. Now, these are actual people. They could be businesses that you use, suppliers, investors in your company, people like that that are not necessarily owners of the company, but they\u2019re attached somehow. If you do well, they do well.
And they might be able to link you with other people or other businesses to do you a solid so that you do well, and thereby, they would do well, if that makes sense. The third box, and we have boxes in the book for you to fill out names and put at least a couple of names in each box as mentors. Now, mentors are not like this old dude with a beard and long white hair sitting underneath a tree somewhere-<\/p>\n
In a blue shirt, headphones on right now.<\/p>\n
Exactly. This is somebody who actually is in your exact business, we\u2019re a similar business. So, in real estate, this would be like someone who\u2019s been in the\u2026 It\u2019s funny, this is relative, I had dinner last night with a guy who owns a big real estate broker and he texted one of his agents and he said, \u201cI\u2019m having dinner with Pat Hiban.\u201d And the guy goes, \u201cOh, I know of Pat Hiban. He\u2019s the real estate OG, legit.\u201d<\/p>\n
That\u2019s quite a compliment right there, right?<\/p>\n
Now he needs a beard.<\/p>\n
I was like, \u201cWow, I\u2019ve been calling a lot of things but never real estate OG, legit.\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay.\u201d So, that\u2019s my rap name, real estate OG, legit. Anyways, so I would be a mentor to that kid. So, somebody who actually has done it and can save you time because they\u2019ve already done it, they\u2019ve already learned the lessons, they\u2019ve already gotten their teeth kicked in so they can keep you from getting your teeth kicked in and save you time so you don\u2019t have to make the mistakes that they made, that would be mentors. And then the last one is coaches. And coaches are different than mentors because the thing that coaches do is they offer the accountability piece. You\u2019re paying them to be a drill sergeant or a personal trainer. You\u2019re paying them to yell at you if you\u2019re not doing things that are going to make you more money.
If you want to get into real estate investing, it would be doing drive-bys of vacant houses where you see high grass, and leaving them notes, or whatever the process is that\u2019s going to make you money. There\u2019s an accountability piece to a coach that a mentor\u2019s not going to\u2026 there\u2019s nothing in it for them, they\u2019re not going to alienate you by being a jerk on purpose. But a coach will. A coach, you\u2019re paying money to be a jerk to you on purpose. So, those are the four boxes and we encourage everybody, before they quit or go out in an endeavor of self-employment entrepreneurship, before they do that, fill out two names in each of those boxes.<\/p>\n
Pat, what a wonderful description of who you need to consult with in your life. And the one I want to drill down on, I think, is the mentors piece. Because for a lot of rookies that are listening, their dream is to find that mentor that\u2019s going to hold their hand and share a lot of the wisdom and lessons learned that that mentor has and pass it along to this new real estate investor. So, if I\u2019m someone that\u2019s new, maybe I don\u2019t necessarily have a big network myself of people that invest in real estate, which is true for a lot of new people, and Pat, I\u2019ll ask it to you first, and Tim if you can follow up, but how can I, as a new investor, find that mentor that\u2019s willing to give me the time and energy of sharing all those lessons?<\/p>\n
Go to BiggerPockets Convention. Really, that\u2019s how. Here\u2019s an interesting fact, I met Tim at a money convention in Chicago. I\u2019m from Maryland, he\u2019s from California. I was tying my shoes to go for a run in the lobby and he came out in running clothes and was going for a run. And we ended up running together and meeting. We were both interested in money. He had more money than me, he had a lot of real estate, which I didn\u2019t have at the time, so he essentially became my mentor in that. He was also, and is, my mentoring quitting. When I met him, he was 41 or something, and he had just quit. So, I was like, \u201cWow, this dude quit at 40 years old. I need to run with him.\u201d
But the point is, that\u2019s the answer to your question, you got to put yourself out there with other people that would be your mentor and just grab him in the hall and just start talking to him. And everybody, guys like me, real estate OG, legit people, we\u2019re egomaniacs, we love talking. We get high from talking to people. So, if a young person comes up and asks us questions, we\u2019re not going to be a jerk to them. That\u2019s reality.<\/p>\n
Tim, before you go real quick, I want to follow up with Pat real quick on that. So, when you guys went for that run, I want to understand how you treated Tim or how the conversation went. Were you just all of a sudden like, \u201cHere\u2019s my chance, I\u2019m going to drill him with questions,\u201d or was it like, \u201cLet me build a connection, a relationship, with this person and then we go into a mentorship\u201d?<\/p>\n
So, this might not be the answer you think or recommend. So, first of all, I had happened to be talking to another guy that was Tim\u2019s friend at a social cocktail party, or something, the night before and he\u2019s like, \u201cYou got to meet my buddy Tim Rhode.\u201d And so, I knew of him from literally the night before, and I guess, somehow, I might have known that that was him, or something, I\u2019m not sure. But my personality is, and this is not good, I actually have a communication coach that I\u2019m working with that try to change a little bit of this, but my personality is, sometimes, I go too fast into asking questions and it alienates people. They think I\u2019m a private investigator working for their ex-husband or ex-wife or something. No, seriously, I had a woman asked me if I was an FBI agent pretty recently. There\u2019s a story behind it, but I was curious about something and I was asking her too many questions.
So anyway, to answer your question, Tim and I connected over passive income, we connected over real estate, we connected over wealth. The seminar we happen to be at is called Money Matters. So, pretty much everybody there was there to talk about money. So, that\u2019s what I did. We connected after. We grew as friends later, but during that run, it was like, \u201cHow many rental properties do you have? How much money\u2026\u201d You know what I mean?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s so interesting, and I like to hear both sides of it as to how people build a relationship. And Tim, did you have other people trying to talk to you because of your status at this point during that conference? And why did it end up being Pat that you built this relationship? Or do you have 5,000 Pats around you all the time that you\u2019re friends to all of them?<\/p>\n
Actually, because of that Money Matters seminar, the next day I went running with David Osborne and Pat, and we became the three amigos. When we started our own mastermind, and that\u2019s turned into GoBundance. And just to take that to the next level, you guys all know Andrew Cushman, he\u2019s a regular on BiggerPockets show. When Pat talks about DAPT, it\u2019s David, Andrew, Pat, and Tim. And Andrew is our horse, and he goes out and finds all the apartments. So, this is really a key piece for all the people that are listening to this is, it\u2019s like we built a team together. We started really small and it was the three of us, and then GoBundance became, from those three, as Pat said, is now a thousand people. DAPT started off as one apartment complex because I knew Andrew from when I used to coach real estate investors and we plugged him in as the one finding all the deals.
So, the point to the listeners is, it\u2019s who, not how. And it\u2019s finding that piece that completes you. And Pat, David and I, together, just took us to another level in our lives of not just finances, but health and fitness, and relationships, and stuff, and we all fed off each other. I would like to touch on the, who did I find for mentors early on, and one was a guy in my hometown, his name was Johnny Viera. And when I changed my identity from Tim List and Sells Real Estate and buys a few rentals, about 2000, I decided I want to go full on into investing and quit listing and selling real estate. So, I made two moves. One, I wrote a plan called Tim is Now an Investor Plan. And two, I reached out to the biggest investor in my area, Johnny Viera, who owned 250 rentals at the time.
And I bought the dude breakfast. And that\u2019s a key point in this, don\u2019t just suck his head, ask what you can do for them. So, I wanted something from him, so I wanted to make darn sure I at least bought him breakfast. And he was so generous. Just like Pat said, he is way beyond. He just threw his cards on the table, or everything he was doing, I\u2019m taking copious notes. And it really helped my investor game. So, I think that\u2019s something that can really help, those around you, and obviously, being into investor meetings and stuff like that. It\u2019s doing the homework, that\u2019s part of those stairs, I was talking about, is doing the things, going to that seminar we went to. What a game changer. That $3,000 has been a $5 million hit.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s good returns.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Now, I was just going to say, Tim, on the mentor piece, I want to talk a little bit about the team building too before we move on to that, just back to the mentorship really quickly, I know something that I struggle with is, and I have access to pretty successful entrepreneurs and real estate investors in my network, but I hate the idea of just going to them and asking for things and not being able to provide value in return. And it\u2019s like what value can I give to someone that already has 3000 units? They have their team, they have this, they have that. So, if I\u2019m a rookie, how do I identify ways to add value to these potential mentors? That way, they, I don\u2019t know, maybe give me the time of day.<\/p>\n
I would find somebody who knows them and knows what they like and finds something you can do to add value to them. Honestly, just buying a breakfast wasn\u2019t enough. It was very nice that he did that, but I would\u2019ve maybe found somebody on his team and find something they\u2019re really into and get him a gift or something like that. But it\u2019s worth it. And it\u2019s okay also just to reach out and say, \u201cHey, I know you don\u2019t know me, but boy, would you mind spending 15 minutes, 30 minutes on a phone?\u201d Something like that.<\/p>\n
A great question is, what can I do to earn the opportunity to have lunch with you?<\/p>\n
Do you know what the answer would be if someone asked you that though? Because I don\u2019t know what I would say to that, I guess.<\/p>\n
Same. Same.<\/p>\n
Yeah, if someone said that to me. And I think that\u2019s what I struggle with, is I have a lot of people that reach out to me on Instagram and say, \u201cI\u2019d love to work with you. What can I do for you at free time? I can do this.\u201d But I don\u2019t know what to even task them, or assign to them, or what they could send to me, or whatever.<\/p>\n
The answer to your question is that you don\u2019t have to necessarily really give them something. It\u2019s rhetorical. You\u2019re hoping that they say, \u201cDon\u2019t worry about it, I\u2019m happy to meet with you.\u201d Logically thinking, they could say, \u201cWell give a donation to my charity,\u201d which a lot of rich people have charities that they are fond of or have their favorite charity, if not their own charity. And that works if they ask for that or if you want to do it. The other big thing that I actually talk about in my first book, 6 Steps to 7 Figures, is how to be a mentee, how to be a good mentee. And I think the number one rule to being a good mentee is actually taking the advice of the mentor. A lot of people come to me and I say, \u201cRead this book and do this and do that.\u201d And I never hear from them again.
But when I hear back from somebody that\u2019s like, \u201cPat, I read all three of the books. Here\u2019s a picture of all the notes I took. I did exactly what you said. I went out there and did this and did that.\u201d I\u2019ll be like, \u201cGreat. Stay in touch.\u201d Because it makes me feel good that someone\u2019s actually respecting the advice that I\u2019m giving, because 99% of the people don\u2019t do what you tell them they should do.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s darn good, Pat. Spot on.<\/p>\n
I want to talk a little bit about the team building piece. Tim, you had mentioned about DAPT and how it came together, that Andrew was the workhorse that put that all together. So, as I\u2019m looking to set myself up to quit, we talked about the stakeholder, the partners, the mentors, the coaches, but what about the team I actually need once I do quit? What does that part look like?<\/p>\n
Well, and Pat can relate the to this too, let\u2019s look at three different levels. A, you\u2019re a player in the game. B, you\u2019re a general manager. And three, you\u2019re an owner. And now Pat and I are like owners, but boom, when we were players deepening our bench, one thing that I said all along is, I suck. And my theory is, so many people, they want to do everything, \u201cNo one can do it like me.\u201d I never had that problem. All I wanted to do was prospect and list homes back in the day. And one person at a time, I\u2019d get somebody to do everything I don\u2019t want to do. At one point I had five people doing all the things I want to do\u2026 or, excuse me, didn\u2019t want to do, to lead me to success. So, I think when as a player, it\u2019s getting the training wheels for yourself, learning what\u2019s your MO, and boy, that\u2019s something.
If you suffer from having to do everything yourself and think nobody can do it better, I challenge you to get out of your way because you\u2019re really limiting yourself. And I\u2019ve always, always, to this day, every single team we have, it\u2019s full of top-notch players, and we don\u2019t do anything, and I rarely did all along, as a player, as the GM, as the owner. I got much off my plate as early as I possibly could to just concentrate on my unique 10%.<\/p>\n
Tim, I love that. I want to hear from both of you. So Pat, maybe if you can answer first, and Tim, we\u2019ll go back to you. But I think that\u2019s every new investor\u2019s dream, is to be able to build this business where they outsource all the stuff they hate doing, they\u2019re really working in their area of expertise, just the thing that they\u2019re uniquely skilled at doing. But building a team also requires money. And for the person that\u2019s only got one unit, the idea of outsourcing everything doesn\u2019t seem feasible because there\u2019s just not enough revenue coming in. So, as you\u2019re building your business, Pat, how do you know when to start bringing people in? And does it make sense to maybe give yourself a pay cut to start paying someone else to do some of the work that you were doing before?<\/p>\n
So, the answer is it always does at some point. You should do it yourself for 50 hours, maybe 60 hours a week. If you\u2019re going to make this a full time thing as investing, you should actually work 50, 60 hours a week in building it in the beginning. And just imagine what you could make happen if you actually were dollar productive, meaning, you were actually calling people, or texting people, or leaving them notes, or knocking on the door, or whatever, how many leads you could get as far as houses to buy or whatever it is you\u2019re trying to buy, whatever piece of real estate asset you\u2019re trying to buy, if you did that. And then, because you worked 50, 60 hours a week doing dollar productive activities, meaning, things that make you money, you\u2019re going to have more than one unit, you\u2019re going to have lots going on and you\u2019ll be able to afford to go to Upwork and find someone on Upwork to do what you want to do five hours a week at first, and then 10 hours a week, and then 20 hours a week, and then hire somebody full-time eventually.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s a great example. Tim, do you have anything to add to that?<\/p>\n
Yeah. When I was selling real estate my first full year in the business, I did what Pat said, I did everything myself, absolute just in the trenches, working my butt off, doing whatever it took to get the job done. I made 70,000 my first year, and I hired Diane McClanahan at 48,000 per year with four weeks paid vacation. She\u2019s the best escrow officer in the area and I grabbed her. And just had this anchor who, as soon as I got it into escrow, I knew it was done and I went into just prospecting and listing. And then my second hire was somebody\u2026 as soon as I got the listing, they\u2019d take it from there until it went to escrow. So yeah, doing all the things that I wasn\u2019t good at. And pretty soon it was like, I\u2019d say, \u201cThis is my team, here\u2019s my phone number, but you\u2019ll never call me.\u201d They\u2019re amazing, they do everything. And they did.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I do think that\u2019s a common misconception, not just entrepreneurs or not just real estate investors, but entrepreneurs in general have is that they hear this, the \u201cwho, not how\u201d and build the team and do this and do that, but they miss the fact that that\u2019s a gradual process, and that it\u2019s not supposed to be on day one, or day 30, or day 90, or day 180, or day 365, it\u2019s years down that grind when you\u2019ve really built that financial nest egg to be able to afford that team member, where you can start outsourcing things.<\/p>\n
You got to mop the floors.<\/p>\n
There You go.<\/p>\n
Tim and Pat, my next question is along the same lines, as having the money to pay your team, but before even that, what kind of reserves or what should your financial position look like before you actually quit?<\/p>\n
Mine was not by the book, let\u2019s just say. I think most people would want a little more in reserves than what I did. When I tapped out at 40, it wasn\u2019t like I had a big massive reserve or big money was coming in, it was barely there. And I believed in myself, and just knew all the things that got me to this place was no longer working with me with my old incarnation, which was selling real estate. And then I want to, just for investing, I knew if I just worked at it and did the same thing I used to do just for I\u2019m going to be the customer instead of the client, that I knew I could make it happen. So, my answer is yes, it\u2019s wise to get money behind you and to have a nice cushy place to jump off. But sometimes, it\u2019s time to just make the move and it\u2019s best for you not to.<\/p>\n
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us on the podcast. Can you let us know where everyone can find your book and where they can reach out to you guys?<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s easy, biggerpockets.com\/quittersmanifesto. Name of the book again is, The Quitter\u2019s Manifesto, Quit a Job You Hate For the Work You Love. Quitter\u2019s Manifesto. So yeah, we\u2019re excited. BiggerPockets has been a great publisher for us and we think we have a really good book that\u2019s going to help millions of people. Everyone that\u2019s read it so far has given us rave reviews on it. So, I hope that anybody listening, go ahead and pick it up. It\u2019s an easy read. It\u2019s what we call an airplane read, which means you could buy it in an airport, read it on your flight, and be done when you land.<\/p>\n
Thanks for the opportunity, Ashley and Tony, and we\u2019ll see you all at BiggerPockets Conference this fall in San Diego.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s going to be October 2nd to the fourth, so we hope to see everyone there. If you haven\u2019t checked it out yet, go to biggerpockets.com\/events. And if you want to check out their new book, you can find it in the BiggerPockets Bookstore. So, Pat and Tim, thank you guys so much for coming on and we also look forward to meeting you guys there at the conference in sunny San Diego.<\/p>\n
Look forward to it.<\/p>\n
Look forward to meeting you guys.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m Ashley @wealthfromrentals, and he\u2019s Tony @tonyjrobinson, and this has been another Rookie Reply.<\/p>\n