\n
Dave:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to On the Market. We have an excellent show today to talk about one of the most up and coming, most exciting new strategies in real estate known as mid-term rentals. For this interview, I am joined by Kathy Fettke. Kathy, how are you?<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Great. So happy to be here. This is a really interesting topic that I think a lot of people want to learn about.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yes. It\u2019s an amazing interview, which we\u2019ll get to in just a moment, but I want to know about your weekend furnishing, your short-term rental. Kathy sent a text to the On the Market team, showing a giant shopping cart full of all sorts of stuff. What were you up to?<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Oh, my gosh. Well, you know we have a development in Park City that our company syndicated, and Rich and I bought one of the town homes early on, so we got an amazing deal. Finally, it closed and we\u2019ve been furnishing it, and it was such a pain. After our last show, you and I talked about, \u201cHey, if we would all just stop spending money just for a month, then maybe inflation would go down,\u201d and then I send a picture of me with this huge shopping cart with all the things, all the things, and so I just thought, \u201cWouldn\u2019t it be nice if someone would just do this for me?\u201d I had hired my property manager to do it for me, but it just was taking too long and too slow.
Anyway, to have this interview today, just after I spent hours, days trying to furnish this thing, or finish the furnishing, the property manager did a lot of it, but not the final touches, and of course you want to come out of the gate strong, you don\u2019t want your first review to be bad. So, I just thought, \u201cWell, it would be really great to automate,\u201d and that\u2019s something you can really learn from this interview, is how do you automate this stuff to make it easier, so you can travel the world like they do.<\/p>\n
Dave:
If you\u2019re curious who they are at Zeona McIntyre and Sarah Weaver who wrote the new book for BiggerPockets, 30-Day Stay, and we\u2019ll get all into that in just a moment. But, yeah, I think Kathy and I both had our minds blown talking about the automation of furnishing. I\u2019ve only done it once, I shared the story, but it\u2019s hard. It is not easy, and it\u2019s something I completely underestimated when I was first doing it, and it is extremely time consuming, and it\u2019s amazing to hear how Zeona and Sarah have created this lifestyle for themselves as really pretty automated, and sounds like it\u2019s only going up from here. It sounds like the growth of this niche could be just at the beginning, we could see a lot more growth in the next couple of years.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, and how they automated the management of it too. Because in short-term rentals, the management fees are really, really high. If you use a manager, they can take 20, 25%. Oh, that\u2019s a big old chunk.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh, they could take 40%.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Oh, man.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I talked to a couple places that do 40. It\u2019s insane.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah. So, to just that alone, to be able to automate like they do with\u2026 I don\u2019t know exactly how they do it. I\u2019m going to read the book again, and I\u2019m going to hire them as a consultant, which they said they would do for me. So, yay.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Well, I learned during the course of the interview that, \u201cKathy wrote the foreword for this book.\u201d So, I think you get some free consulting in exchange for that.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Perfect.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Well, with that, let\u2019s not waste any more time. Let\u2019s bring on Zeona and Sarah to talk about mid-term rentals.
Sarah Weaver and Zeona McIntyre, welcome to On the Market. Zeona, how are you doing?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
So good. Thanks for having us. It\u2019s very exciting.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Sarah, how have you been?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, really good. Still recovering from BPCON, and excited to be here.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Well, and recovering from being in Thailand, right?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, I\u2019m in the future. 12 hours ahead.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I think this is the most global podcast we\u2019ve done. We have three continents represented. We have Sarah\u2019s in Asia, I\u2019m in Europe, and we have everyone else in the US. Pretty cool.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Amazing.<\/p>\n
Dave:
All right. Well, both of you are here because you are the newest entrance into the BiggerPockets authors club. Congratulations on your book. Can you tell us a little bit about it, Sarah?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, absolutely. It\u2019s called 30-Day Stay: A Real Estate Investor\u2019s Guide to Mastering the Medium-Term Rental.<\/p>\n
Dave:
How did you decide to write this book?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, Zeona and I met virtually, like you do most of your real estate investor friends, and we realized we had two things in common. We love to travel, and we both owned furnish rentals. After a few shared Ubers and a shared hotel at a conference, we kind of came up with the idea to pitch a book to BiggerPockets, and here we are exactly a year later with our book, not only written, but in the hands of investors.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Wow, that\u2019s amazing. That took one-fifth of the time it took me to write my book. So, well, congratulations.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
We were on the fast track, for sure.<\/p>\n
Dave:
That\u2019s awesome. Well, Zeona, I know you\u2019ve been in the short-term rental market for a while. How did you start getting into medium-term rentals?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
It really happened for me in COVID. So, before then, of course, I\u2019d had some longer requests and longer guests, but it wasn\u2019t until that kind of time in March that was really intense for a lot of short-term rental hosts. I don\u2019t know if either of you were hosting then, but it just happened that one day to the next, all of the reservations canceled, and so it seemed like it was fine, and we were ramping up for a great summer again, and then everybody freaked out around COVID, so it was early March. Then I had to collect myself and pivot and say like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m financially independent if these places are rented, but if they don\u2019t rent, I got to figure something out here.\u201d
So, luckily I saw bookings coming in that were longer, people started to come as relief workers and people needed more space for homeschooling their kids and working from home, and so it started to naturally happen, and I had a lot of places out of state, and so I was like, \u201cMan, the biggest hurdle for me is how am I going to show these properties?\u201d But, luckily I realized pretty quickly that a lot of these people are booking sight unseen, just like a short-term rental, and so I was able to really pivot and adapt and figure out everything online. Took a little bit of iterating.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
What\u2019s the difference between the guest? I mean, obviously with a medium-term rental, they\u2019re not necessarily travelers, or are they?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Well, it kind of depends. I can also let Sarah answer this, but\u2026<\/p>\n
Kathy:
By that, I mean vacationers. I mean, obviously, it\u2019s traveling people, but\u2026<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah, so the typical short-term rental in my experience was three or four nights, and these are more three months, but I\u2019ve seen a lot of digital nomads do one month. So, especially at the beginning, people were like, \u201cI\u2019m going to go to Denver, and then Austin, and then New Orleans,\u201d and so they would just hop around like that. So, I\u2019ve definitely had one month stays, but travel nurses are also big part of our tenant pool, and they\u2019re three months, generally three to six months. Sarah, do you want to mention? I know you\u2019ve had renovations and we\u2019ve both had people from insurance claims, so yeah, what other tenants are you seeing?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, I think one of the things we want all of the listeners to understand is that it\u2019s not just traveling nurses. The title of the book could have been traveling nurses if that was the only people that we served. But, we really\u2026 Medium term rentals can serve all different types of populations. So, I have a friend, she has a duplex in South Kansas City, she has been a hundred percent occupied, had even a couple turnovers in there where it was same day turnovers, and she\u2019s never housed a nurse. I have another friend who has rentals or medium-term rentals in Waco, and she is renting two construction workers who are working on a job site for 60 to 90 days. I\u2019ve housed a divorcee who just messaged and was like, \u201cCan I move in tomorrow?\u201d<\/p>\n
Dave:
Wow.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
So, we have people from all different walks of life, renting from us, not just traveling nurses.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Sarah, did you get into medium-term rentals in the same way? Or, had you been doing it prior to COVID?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Actually, my first furnished rental was a medium-term rental, and so I posted my own unit that I was living in, on Airbnb, and in my mind I was like, \u201cOh, it\u2019ll get rented on the weekends and then I\u2019ll just go travel, or go visit my grandparents,\u201d and my very first booking was for 30 days, and so I became homeless overnight. For a normal person, that would be a problem, for me, I was like, \u201cWoo hoo, I\u2019m going to Mexico.\u201d So, that\u2019s what I did, and so I actually got into medium-term right away, and then I do what\u2019s called the hybrid model. So, my units are in markets that still allow short-term rentals, meaning municipalities don\u2019t limit the nights of stay. So, I will switch it to a short-term rental in the summer, and kind of utilize those shorter term stays to net more money. But, then I noticed a trend come September, October, no one\u2019s going to Omaha on a Wednesday night, and so I switched from short-term to medium-term to keep my occupancy rates high.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Well, that begs the question, why are people vacationing in Omaha during the summer, or are they?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
I had the same question, and I own eight units in Omaha, and I was scratching my head too. So, what I have is in the summer there\u2019s the College World Series, so I can make an entire mortgage payment just by renting a couple of days in June for the College World Series. Then a really interesting trend is that people use Omaha as a stopover on their road trip from Chicago to Denver. At first I was like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s so interesting.\u201d I was like, \u201cThat makes sense, and I allow pets, so they might bring their dog, and they prefer to stay in an Airbnb over a hotel.\u201d But, then it was great, I would have repeat guests. So, they loved my place so much that then they\u2019d stay on the way back as well. Then this summer I had even more repeat guests, where they did that last summer, it worked out really well, so they did it again this summer, and so those are great because they\u2019re staying on a Tuesday or a Wednesday, which really helps with my occupancy rates.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I had no idea that was a common travel pipeline.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
No.<\/p>\n
Dave:
The Chicago to Denver road trip.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, I at least house, I think, 10 people like that, over the summer.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Whoa.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Wow.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
They would stay in your home versus a hotel because you allow pets? Or, are there other reasons why\u2026 Obviously your competition is the hotel.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, it\u2019s really interesting, especially when we\u2019re talking about medium-term rentals. If someone\u2019s going to stay for a month, they would prefer to stay in a home. We\u2019re seeing a lot more families utilize medium-term rentals in the summer. Maybe one of the parents typically is bound to their job during the summer, but because of COVID they now have the ability to be untethered and work remotely, and so we\u2019re seeing more and more families utilize houses in the summer, even as medium-term rentals, to get away from the city or just change location, because now one of the parents can work remotely or both of them can work remotely.<\/p>\n
Dave:
So, as the title of the book suggests is that I assume the cutoff between definition between short-term rental and medium-term is 30 days. Is that sort of the-<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Okay, so I\u2019m curious, Zeona, what about market conditions\u2026 You said you started in COVID, like what makes you think medium-term rentals are going to maintain this demand, going forward?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah, there\u2019s a few things. So, first, just the ability to work from home grew tremendously, and I know some places are bringing people back to work, but I think there\u2019s just been a change in the culture and a lot of people are specifically looking for jobs that are location independent and they might be joining their partners on travels. So, we see a lot of traveling nurses that now bring their partner or their child along with them. So, we\u2019re kind of seeing that trend some more, and then just a lot of people working from home. So, often I\u2019m seeing people wanting two bedrooms so they can each kind of have an office during the day and then go explore on their off hours. I do this with my partner too, Sarah also does this, she lives in Airbnbs full time. So, that is also just a bigger trend. We see that a lot in the financial independence community. A lot of people just go from Airbnb to Airbnb and don\u2019t actually have a home.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
So, what we saw with COVID is that there are now 11 million digital nomads, and for those of you that don\u2019t know what a digital nomad is, it just means that they work likely for themselves or for a company and they can live anywhere, and so that number was 7% of the workforce before COVID, and then it jumped to 42%, and so those are significant numbers. They\u2019re not all are our tenants, for example, I don\u2019t just house digital nomads, but it\u2019s becoming more and more, so much so that 24% of Airbnb bookings were for 28 days or more this year.<\/p>\n
Dave:
So, I guess the question then is, with medium-term rentals, does it sort of fall in terms of revenue per night? Is it less than short-term rentals but more than a traditional buy and hold year-long lease?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
So, this is interesting because this kind of changed for me recently, but what I used to tell people is that there\u2019s market rate, I find medium-term to be like one and a half times, and then short-term to be twice market rate, just as a very loose general rule. But, I found this guy just a couple nights ago that is doing contracts directly with nurse placement and with insurance companies, and although I\u2019ve had some of those bookings, I just don\u2019t necessarily go after them directly. But, he\u2019s saying that, \u201cThere\u2019s no reason why you shouldn\u2019t be able to get the short-term rental rate of two times even in your medium-term rental,\u201d and so that\u2019s Jesse Vasquez, I think it\u2019s Vasquez. If you guys want to look him up on YouTube, he\u2019s just kind of getting started, but it seems like he has programs for going after them specifically and building those connections. So, I\u2019m definitely going to try to learn that because that\u2019ll bring up my revenue, which is already fantastic.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
So, what markets does the strategy work in?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
It seems cheeky to say, but every market. So, I\u2019m seeing medium-term rental work in small town Iowa, in outside of Seattle, Washington. I own a few in the Midwest, Zeona owns some in Colorado, in places where she couldn\u2019t do short-term rental, and so it\u2019s really nice to be able to utilize this in markets that restrict short-term rentals, but then also in markets that you wouldn\u2019t necessarily think to own a short-term rental like Omaha, Nebraska.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
How are you managing them when they\u2019re out of state? Do you use a regular property manager or are you still using services like Airbnb?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
We both self-manage. So, both of us started out self-managing ourselves to keep costs down and really hit that financial independence number as quickly as possible. Then both Zeona and I now have what I call in-house property management. So, I have a virtual assistant and an executive assistant helping manage these, and neither of them are in the locations that my medium-term rentals are either.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Same for you, Zeona.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I mean, what about the cleaning and the things that a property manager would normally do?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah. So, even when I was teaching people about short-term rentals, I said that, \u201cYou could start with a really bare bones team. Once you have the property, all you need is a cleaner and a handyman and you\u2019re off to the races. So, it doesn\u2019t have to be super complicated, and most of those contacts you can get from your agent, so if you\u2019ve got a good investor-friendly agent in that market, they usually have a list of contractors and different people to reach out to.\u201d Yeah, from there, we have taken on assistance and that really helps, but for a long time we were just doing it ourselves. It\u2019s actually pretty management light because you\u2019re only needing potentially four tenants a year. It sounds like a lot if you\u2019re coming from long term rentals, but from short-term rentals it\u2019s like, \u201cOoh, walk in the park.\u201d<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I know when we were at BPCON, I was asking about just what types of property, and it was pretty exciting that it could be not what would be normally a long term rental, so you can go after properties that maybe other people aren\u2019t looking at. So, yeah, Sarah, tell me about that.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, all of my units are one-one or two-one units, and so what normally might not be as attractive to a long term buy and hold investor, I can go ahead and swoop in because it\u2019s exactly what I want want.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah, and I\u2019ll say that I have a bunch of\u2026 Well, not a bunch, but I have a few condos, and so that\u2019s usually the lowest on the totem pole for investors. They don\u2019t want to touch an A2A, they don\u2019t like condos, a one bedroom, no way. So, those I love, because actually they\u2019re being looked over, and I feel like that\u2019s the important thing as an investor, is like, \u201cHow can you make something that is overlooked, something really valuable?\u201d So, the condos that I actually love are ones that one bedroom, that have shared utilities in the building, so those might be a shared boiler, shared water heater, so you don\u2019t have to have a furnace and a water heater in your unit, and then even ones with shared laundry, because the longer term stays, they\u2019re fine, they\u2019re not living there forever, so they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, cool. I\u2019ll just\u2026\u201d As long as there\u2019s laundry in the building, they\u2019re fine with that, and so in my unit, there\u2019s almost no maintenance, because all I have is a fridge and a dishwasher and an oven. So, there\u2019s almost nothing that can go wrong.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I was going to ask that because I own just one short-term rental, but just owning one is enough to know that you get some ridiculous tenant stories or guest stories, I guess you could say, how the houses get a little abused. Do you find that the wear and tear on properties is similar with mid-term rentals?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
I find that it\u2019s actually less, and so you have these tenants who really take a sense of ownership with the unit, also because they\u2019re there for three months, like if they do break something, they\u2019re going to tell you, and so that allows me to replace something even while that tenant is in the unit, which is less stress at time of turnover. Whereas when you have a short-term rental and you have turnover every two to three days, and then someone\u2019s checking in that same day, it creates a lot of stress in my opinion.
Then to compare it to long term rentals, what I find is that my long term rentals, they move out and they\u2019ve been living there for a year, they haven\u2019t told me anything that\u2019s wrong with the property, so then when I do finally do a walkthrough, it\u2019s like, \u201cHow on earth are there scuffs on the ceiling, or silly string on the wall?\u201d And then you have to clean that and paint that and maybe even redo flooring, and so it creates a lot of headache. But, my units, I own nine medium-term rentals now, and I can tell you maybe two stories where it was like, when we went in, there was a bad surprise. But, with all of the turnover that we\u2019ve had, it\u2019s usually really simple.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, it seems like a very different type of occupant or tenant. The short-term rental\u2019s definitely going to be more of a party in most cases.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Well, and sometimes these nurses, they\u2019re so tired after a long shift that they\u2019re not even using the unit at all, and so I had a cleaner who messaged me, and the tenant had been there for three months, and the cleaner\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t even think she touched a dish. Nothing in the kitchen looked like it had been used.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dave:
All right. I want to talk about a subject that I\u2019ve been very interested recently, which is the regulation of short-term rentals that seems to be becoming more and more common across the US, particularly in big cities. Do you think that, one, I\u2019m just curious about your opinion about that, and do you think that trend is going to continue? If so, could that increase demand and maybe supply, like could more short-term rental people start getting into mid-term rentals? Zeona, I\u2019m curious what you think.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah, I mean, I do think that trend is continuing. It seems like most places have already outlawed it that are going to do it, but I still hear about like it started with the cities and then it kind of leaks out, right? Because people are like, \u201cWell, if it\u2019s illegal in the city, I\u2019ll just be right on the border,\u201d which I think is a great strategy. So, they\u2019re starting to say like, \u201cOh, no. Now it\u2019s the county,\u201d or this or that. So, that is still changing. I see that a lot in Colorado where I live. So, that I think will continue.
I also think that there\u2019s just a trend now towards more urban markets. Just the way that things are happening with a recession happening or on the rise, it just seems like people are scaling back on their travel. So, first they\u2019re not going to do plane travel, so they might cut out Hawaii and Mexico or something, and then I think it moves towards the vacation rental markets where they\u2019re like, \u201cLet\u2019s just drive. We\u2019re going to drive to Orlando.\u201d Or, \u201cWe\u2019re going to go to the beach.\u201d Then later, as they get a little more scared, which I\u2019ve been seeing lately, people are saying, \u201cI\u2019m just going to do necessary travel. We have to see our family in Omaha, we\u2019re going to go there.\u201d
So, that ends up being more urban, and I just feel like that\u2019s a little bit safer than buying in these markets where they may stay vacation rental friendly, but they don\u2019t allow you to pivot your strategy. So, if you\u2019re in a place where, I mean, for example, the Smokey Mountains, it\u2019s like people that live there and work in the restaurants or cleaning ladies, they\u2019re not going to rent out your place for $5,000 a month, which is what people\u2019s mortgages tend to be. So, I feel more worried about buying something without a backup plan, right?<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, it just seems like there\u2019s not as much competition for it, whereas there is with STRs. That\u2019s been one of the issues I\u2019ve seen, and that Airbnb came out with saying that, \u201cYes, there\u2019s actually more people using short-term rentals, but hosts are actually making less because there\u2019s so many more units available.\u201d But, would you say that\u2019s the case with medium-term rentals too? There\u2019s more and more people getting into it?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Well, it\u2019s really interesting. I love talking about the competition because if you\u2019re a listener thinking about turning one of your units into a medium-term rental, what I encourage you to do is go to a website called furnishedfinder.com, and look as if you are a renter, like you\u2019re going to rent a place, and you\u2019ll really quickly see that the units are, I don\u2019t have a nice way to say this, they\u2019re just not as aesthetically pleasing, whereas there\u2019s a lot of beautiful listings on Airbnb, and so competition is so much higher on Airbnb for short-term rentals. Whereas Furnished Finder, which is where I find most of my tenants, I don\u2019t have any competition in Omaha. \u201cCome at me, you guys.\u201d No.
But, what I find is that I\u2019ve had tenants actually say that. So, I had a tenant who was willing to live in a hotel for two and a half weeks, waiting for my unit to come available, and so the first thing I asked as an investor was, \u201cOh, my gosh, are there no other units?\u201d Meanwhile, I\u2019m texting my agent like, \u201cMust buy more MTRs.\u201d And she said, \u201cNo, no, no. There are other units available, but they\u2019re all granny units, none of them are cute like yours. I\u2019ve been a traveling nurse for two years and I\u2019m just sick of living in ugly places, and so when I saw your unit, I\u2019m willing to wait for it to come available.\u201d<\/p>\n
Kathy:
So, how does Furnished Finder work? Do you just list your property there and is that the main site that you use?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
That\u2019s a great question, Kathy, because at BPCON I realized people don\u2019t know how to use Furnished Finder, so I\u2019m like, \u201cTrying to get the word out.\u201d So, the difference between Furnished Finder and a website like Airbnb is that Airbnb is a booking platform. So, people actually go on there and they book your place through the platform and they market it through there. With Furnished Finder, it\u2019s more of a lead generation platform, and so what they\u2019re doing is they\u2019re capturing people\u2019s information and then they just give you a list of potential tenants, and then from there it\u2019s kind of your job to reach out to these people.
So, they can reach out to you, but you\u2019re not going to see many requests coming through. There\u2019s just like a lot happening. But, if you reach out to people and are proactive, you can have just a copy paste template that\u2019s really easy and just blast that out when you\u2019re doing your tenant searches. But, it\u2019s not that labor-intensive because you\u2019re only looking for tenants maybe a couple times a year. It could be twice a year, it could be three times a year. So, I find that that just makes it a little bit easier.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Sounds like an opportunity for someone to create an app. BiggerPockets, for medium-term rentals.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah. Well, we\u2019ll get right on that. I\u2019m curious, it\u2019s sort of along the line of Kathy\u2019s question. In the short-term rental market, there have been some companies that have sprung up with data about demand and pricing, like AirDNA or there\u2019s some other ones. Does that exist for medium-term?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
It does. That same website, Furnished Finder, if you go to furnishedfinder.com\/stats, that\u2019s where a lot of the data we\u2019re using, we get. It was fun, I actually was using it just this morning before this podcast, because I had a consultation with an investor outside of Salt Lake City, and her area\u2026 Sorry, I\u2019m going to go ahead and tell you the market, so now everyone\u2019s going to go there, but it\u2019s Ogden, so it\u2019s just north of Salt Lake City. There were only four listings that rent the entire unit, whereas the other, I think it was eight listings are all only a room in someone\u2019s house. So, that\u2019s a concept we haven\u2019t really touched on is that you can rent a portion of your house to a medium-term tenant as well, and that\u2019s obviously really common, it\u2019s more common in Ogden, for example, there were more listings where you just rent the room than the entire unit.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Wow.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah, this is pretty cool. I\u2019m looking at it right now. It seems like if you are curious about this, you can go on furnishedfinder.com\/stats, we\u2019ll throw a link to that and you can type in a city and get some information here. I obviously can\u2019t look at all this, but it does seem like there\u2019s some really good ways that you can start measuring demand and seeing where there might be opportunities for you.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
So, Sarah, on your Facebook page, I saw you were showing one of your latest renovations and what you do for decorations that attracts nurses and has them want to come back and stay and tell their friends, which I imagine is a thing, there might be some referral in there. So, what are the kinds of furnishings that you want to put in your rentals to make it cozy?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, absolutely. It sounds silly, but I have always have a $250 coffee table book budget. They are aesthetically pleasing, they photograph well, they\u2019re easy to clean, they\u2019re not going to break, and so I always recommend coffee table books. You want to create texture and depth in your photos, and so that\u2019s a really easy, cheap, beautiful way to make your listing pop, and then the other\u2019s throw pillows. So, many times I see a couch that has either no pillows or they\u2019re just a solid color, no texture. That\u2019s a really inexpensive way to do that. I prefer ones where you can take the cover off and wash them in between guests, but those are two of the most inexpensive ways to do it. Some staples that you have to have in a medium-term rental are blackout curtains in the bedroom, and then I really like using rugs.
So, I go to a store called At Home, and they actually have washable rugs for under $300, and so that really brings a room together, and then I beg everyone, \u201cPlease go bigger when you\u2019re buying rugs.\u201d I can\u2019t tell you how many listings I see that have a little three by five in a 15 foot living room, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, man. Why not a bigger rug?\u201d People are so afraid to buy bigger rugs. But, those are some quick tips.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
That\u2019s a really good point. I know Rich and I looked up, you can actually look up online what your rug should look like to really make the room look bigger, or its own space, and there\u2019s rules around that. So, yeah, follow the rules. Zeona, how about you? How much do you generally spend on the furnishings?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Oh, well that really depends on the size of the unit. So, I did a unit recently that was two bedrooms, and spent about 8,000, and that was also paying the two helpers that built all the furniture and put it all together. So, it doesn\u2019t have to be crazy expensive. I\u2019d say, again, I don\u2019t like rules of thumb because it really depends, but you can probably get a one bedroom unit for about 5,000 if you\u2019re doing it yourself and it\u2019s all new, and then each bedroom after that might be an additional 2000. Then, yeah, there are companies, Sarah offers us, that will do the furnishing for you. So, they\u2019ll either, on their highest tier, fly out there, on a lower tier, they might just give you a furnishing list, and in the middle, maybe they\u2019ll design the room specifically, but then you have to put it all together.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Where on earth do you shop that you can get prices like that? Because I need to read the book a second time.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
So, mostly, let\u2019s see what we do. We do a lot of Wayfair, Amazon, Target, and then we love HomeGoods. So, Amy Levine is on my real estate team and she furnishes all the medium-term rentals in my market, and so we go together and do, she does all my units. Yeah, we love going to HomeGoods.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
On a Wayfair, there\u2019s a section that\u2019s more like commercial use furniture. Do you use that, or just regular stuff?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I don\u2019t know that we have, but honestly, Amy picks everything out, and then my assistant orders it. So, I just show up and it\u2019s there. So, I can\u2019t claim to be like that cool.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Because you\u2019re in Hawaii, you\u2019re in Thailand, you don\u2019t have time to be furnishing. I got a lot to learn from you two.<\/p>\n
Dave:
It is suffocating.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I know. Let me tell you a little story. So, the last place that I bought was in Denver, and the reason I bought it is because I had this 1031 exchange that didn\u2019t happen, and I had it all planned out, I was like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to buy this place, it\u2019s going to be great, and I have all this time,\u201d and then we ended up buying the place without using the 1031 exchange and then had to find a place fast, and it was just bad timing.
So, the place I found was in Denver, it was like two days before my exchange expired, and I was like, \u201cOh, my God.\u201d So, I was like, \u201cWe picked Denver because it\u2019s close to home. I could just go there and physically furnish it. It\u2019s going to be so easy.\u201d Well, I didn\u2019t think, but actually I was going to be in Europe when I was closing on that place, so I was like, \u201c(Censored) it.\u201d So, I had two of my helpers go do everything, and it turned out beautifully. I still haven\u2019t seen it furnished. Oh, actually I did once. But, yeah, it\u2019s just one of those things where I don\u2019t really know where I\u2019m going to be, and I have helpers for that.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Do you just give the helpers a budget and they just pick out stuff? Or, do they send you\u2026 I\u2019m saying this because I just went through it and it was not fun for me at all to do from a distance.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah. Well, Kathy, if you pre-order our book, it comes with a furnishing spreadsheet, and so that\u2019s a great guide. But, yeah, furnishing spreadsheets, I think, they\u2019re like a general rule, and then you have to kind of think, \u201cWhat is the style? What\u2019s the age of my place? What is it kind of asking for?\u201d And then you customize some of the things. So, we\u2019re always changing things a little bit. But, yeah, I mean, happy to help you the next time you want to do something good.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Thank you.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, that\u2019s really how my company came about is people saw that I furnished a place in Nebraska while I was living in New Zealand and messages started coming in saying, \u201cOh, my God. Can you do mine?\u201d At first I was like, \u201cNo, because I\u2019m busy, I got other businesses,\u201d and then the entrepreneur in me was like, \u201cWait a minute, this smells like an opportunity.\u201d So, that\u2019s how Arya Design Services was born, and now just this year alone, we\u2019ve done 27 units in 11 states. So, please tell everyone how terrible it is to furnish your own unit, so that I can get more people using our services.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Wow, that\u2019s a great offer. Yeah, that\u2019s a great service.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah, having done a short-term rental myself, furnishing, it\u2019s absolutely miserable. Especially if you don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing, which I definitely did not know what I was doing, getting into.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
He\u2019s texting someone like, \u201cOkay, don\u2019t let Sarah see my three by five rug.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dave:
No, I did. I was smart enough to hire an interior designer. I am horrible at design. But, then I went and picked up literally 183 boxes from Ikea, that was one of three runs, and did it all myself, and tricked my friends into helping me. It was absolutely miserable.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
And then putting all that stuff together, did you guys do that?<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Oh, no.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I did a build your own bed party. I invited my friends, but there were no beds so they could come stay at the house because it\u2019s a cool house, but didn\u2019t tell them that there was no beds. So, then when they got there, they had to build their own beds so they had a place to sleep.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Oh, [inaudible 00:35:01].<\/p>\n
Sarah:
That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n
Dave:
But, seriously, that\u2019s how you have to do it. You have to trick people into helping you.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Or, read their book.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Or do it the professional way. Sorry.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Exactly. No, I have some things on the furnish list that they look great, it\u2019s within my budget, but putting it together will make you want to throw the nightstand out the window, and so I never will buy that nightstand again. So, you can rest assured that everything I buy, I have put together myself, and I\u2019m not saying putting it together is fun, but there are things that like never again will I buy that nightstand.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Zeona, how do you find people that they\u2019ll just put the stuff together for you and they like that, that\u2019s their thing?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Well\u2026<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I paid my kids to do it, but\u2026<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Well, so Amy is a machine. So, Amy Levine that I work with here, it\u2019s crazy. You give her a drill and she just puts stuff together in moments. So, I am really bad at that. I am just not\u2026 I\u2019m like, \u201cI will unpack the boxes, I will put things where they live, but I\u2019m not going to build anything.\u201d I\u2019ve seen her really upset around a credenza. It always seems like the credenza brings people down. But, now, yeah, I\u2019ve had a few different assistants that help me with it. I have my showing assistant, she loves to build furniture, so that\u2019s good. Sometimes you bring in a handyman, but I\u2019d say Taskrabbit, if you\u2019re just kind of in a new market and you don\u2019t know people, Taskrabbit\u2019s a great option. Just have them build everything at once, and then help you move it around.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Well, I just think we have to find out where the best place you both have gone to visit while you\u2019re making all this money from your medium-term rentals.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Good question.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
That is a good question. So, do you have one, Sarah? I have to think.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, yeah. I keep going back to Antigua Guatemala. It\u2019s great as a digital nomad because it\u2019s Central Time Zone. So, the time zone\u2019s a lot easier than Asia. The price is amazing. I can live like a queen for $1,100 a month, and the flights there, you can fly direct to Miami, Houston or LA for like $79, and so Antigua Guatemala has become my second home, or home away from being homeless.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Sounds amazing.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah, I spend a lot of time in Europe and Hawaii because that\u2019s where\u2026 My partner\u2019s from Europe, I\u2019m from Hawaii, so we kind of go both of those places a lot. But, for ease of time zone, going down to Mexico, I like doing that a lot. So, Sayulita is a fun place. I like that there\u2019s surf and then also there\u2019s a lot of yoga and healthy food and things like that. So, yeah.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I love Sayulita. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Good taste.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Okay. I am not a fan, so I went to Sayulita with Soli. I think you guys just had her on the podcast, Lattes & Leases. We both got a parasite.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh, no.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Oh.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
So, it\u2019s funny how, as a traveler, some places are like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s great. I\u2019m so glad you love it.\u201d I\u2019m like here with clinched teeth, like, \u201cNever again will I go there.\u201d But, obviously it\u2019s not the entire town of Sayulita\u2019s fault that we got sick, but\u2026<\/p>\n
Dave:
So, before we wrap up, since the show is On the Market, I need to ask you both a little bit about the housing market and how you\u2019re preparing, or are you making any adjustments to your business based on some of the shifts that we\u2019re seeing in the housing market? Do you think medium-term rentals are going to keep going up? Are you adjusting at all? Curious to hear your thoughts. Sarah.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Yeah, so I\u2019m doing a mixture of two strategies. I\u2019m doing out-of-state investing to keep prices lower, and then using the medium-term rental strategy to keep rents high. I find that that\u2019s been the best way to battle inflation, rather than have my money in a money market account, or God forbid, in a checking account. I want to put as much money into real estate as possible. But, then we have these higher interest rates, and so I find that, with the increased cash flow and increased rental income that I\u2019m getting from the medium-term rental, it\u2019s one of the best ways to combat the higher interest rates.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I am a believer, I\u2019ve seen a few trends now since I\u2019ve been in real estate like 10 years, is that the rents are always lagging behind the mortgage prices, and so even though people are seeing softening in their markets, it\u2019s not necessarily that buying a home gets cheaper, it\u2019s just that the interest rates make it so expensive that actually the mortgage price that they\u2019re paying every month is still really high and still getting higher in some places, and so rents have to catch up with that.
Of course, some places, people have owned it for 10 years and they can charge a cheap rent, but for new investors coming in the market, they need to cover their mortgage, and so this idea that like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to save money and be in a cheap rental forever.\u201d That\u2019s not real, that\u2019s not going to happen. So, for us, I see that there\u2019s a lot of demand which helps low supply, and then rents are continuing to come up, and that\u2019s just really going to help us grow. Then of course if you can specialize and get these really high contracts from insurance agencies, that\u2019s going to be a huge bonus.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, yeah. My daughter experienced that with the California fires just by accident, where she had put her home on the short-term rental Airbnb market, and then when the fires happened in Paradise, California, just the whole city burned down, she was getting calls from insurance companies saying, \u201cPlease, this family will pay $3,500 a month,\u201d when her rent had been, or her mortgage was 1200. So, she experienced that firsthand, and then built that relationship with the insurance company. So, when that family left, they had someone ready for her. So, I can see how you want to get to know the insurance companies.<\/p>\n
Dave:
All right. Well, thank you both so much for being here. This has been a pleasure, and congratulations on the new book. Is there anything else, Zeona, you think our audience should know about medium-term rentals before you get out of here?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I can\u2019t believe we didn\u2019t mention this, but Kathy wrote the foreword to our book, so that was especially why we had her here. So, definitely go in and read that, guys. So, if you guys pre-order our book now, and that is at biggerpockets.com\/pod30, I believe you can use any of our names for 10% off. You get a bunch of bonus content. So, we did some cool behind the scenes interviews with other investors, on furnishing, on whether you should turn your short-term rental or long-term rental into a medium-term rental, we\u2019ve got the furnishing list, we\u2019ve got an analyzer tool, and then there\u2019s going to be a webinar with Sarah and I, in December, for everybody who pre-ordered. Then the last thing is that one lucky person is going to win a one-on-one call with both Sarah and I. We both do consulting on our own, and so that\u2019ll be really fun. I\u2019m excited about it because I don\u2019t know how she consults versus how I consult. So, it\u2019s really just like selfishly awesome.<\/p>\n
Dave:
So, both of you\u2019re going to be consulting with one winner?<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I know. Their head\u2019s going to explode.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Wow.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
It\u2019s going to be crazy for us.<\/p>\n
Dave:
That\u2019s going to be very valuable. That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Well, that\u2019s definitely worth\u2026 I mean, the book seems great, so you might as well pre-order and get a chance to win that incredible additional value.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Oh, thank you, guys. We really appreciate it.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Does Kathy get entered to win? She wrote the foreword. I mean-<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Dave:
\u2026 she should probably get entered.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Kathy can call us anytime she wants.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
All right.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Actually, for Kathy, I\u2019ll fly to Malibu and do all of our strategy sessions in person.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Let\u2019s do that. Okay.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
That\u2019s what I said too. I was like, \u201cHmm, let\u2019s make this a little more attractive.\u201d<\/p>\n
Dave:
Kathy just has the trump card. Yeah, she just is like, \u201cAnyone will go consult for Kathy. You just go get to hang out in Malibu. It\u2019s amazing.\u201d<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Come on out, pick the date.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Awesome. Sarah, what about you? Any last thoughts on medium-term rentals that our audience should know about?<\/p>\n
Sarah:
I think, for investors out there that are thinking, \u201cOh, yeah. It sounds great, but\u2026\u201d Or, \u201cI\u2019ve always wanted to do that, but\u2026\u201d My biggest urge is to just try it. The best thing that I ever did in my twenties was just buy real estate. I didn\u2019t have all the answers, I didn\u2019t have community, I didn\u2019t have masterminds and coachings and mentors. I just went for it because that\u2019s my personality, and it\u2019s the best thing I could\u2019ve ever done. So, we joke about all the travel that we get to do, but my life is only possible because I chose to invest in real estate, and so if you\u2019re listening to this podcast and you want to own more rentals, you want more cash flow, I urge you, don\u2019t wait, just do it.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
I second that.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Zeona:
Time. Time is what makes you wealthy. You can make all the mistakes and it\u2019ll correct you over time.<\/p>\n
Dave:
That\u2019s a good way to put it, for sure. Well, Sarah and Zeona, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Congratulations on the new book. I\u2019m super excited. I\u2019m going to come to that webinar for sure.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, me too.<\/p>\n
Dave:
I sort of swore off active investing when I moved to Europe, but now you all are inspiring me. Maybe I need to get off my ass and start doing things directly again. Thank you for being here, and we\u2019ll post all the information about the book in the show notes as well, if you want to find a place to pre-order and get attached for all of that. Hopefully, we\u2019ll have you on again soon when maybe next year we\u2019ll learn more about what you all are up to.<\/p>\n
Sarah:
Thank you.<\/p>\n
Dave:
All right. Well, I guess I could ask you what you think, but now I know that you wrote the foreword to this book, so I already know what you think. You think this is cool, right?<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I think it\u2019s so cool. What BiggerPockets brings to the table is just so much youthfulness, so many new ideas, new techniques, and this is one of them that I had heard about. There\u2019s been a few people out there talking about it and doing it. I just never really understood what kind of demand was out there for it. I knew traveling nurses, but how many are there, and then we heard that that number\u2019s increasing dramatically. In fact, they said there\u2019s almost more traveling nurses than full time. So, this is just great information. I love all the fresh ideas that BiggerPockets brings.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah, it\u2019s super cool, and I think that the work from home thing really will add significant demand there. There is a lot of chatter about work from home declining a little bit, but if you look at the data, it\u2019s pretty stable. It\u2019s staying where it was six months ago, and if there\u2019s a recession and the labor market really changes, that could make a difference. But, I\u2019m guessing that we\u2019ll still keep pretty high elevated levels of work from home for a while, and I think those people, it sounds pretty fun, right? If you had a family and you could work remote and rent a lake house or something over the summer, or go visit family instead of staying in a hotel. It is a really intriguing option for people who don\u2019t\u2026 I guess location independent is the word I did not know, but people who are location independent.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Well, especially in this market. On today\u2019s market where the employee has the power, because there\u2019s just not enough employees out there for all the employers that want them. So, I\u2019ve heard that employees are making the demand, \u201cYeah, I\u2019ll work for you, but on these conditions. I want to be remote, I want to be independent.\u201d So, it is a really exciting thing. We\u2019ve been doing it at RealWealth. For 12 years, we\u2019ve been a remote company.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh, really?<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah. Yeah, because Rich and I wanted to live in Malibu, but we didn\u2019t want to have an office here and our employees didn\u2019t want to move, so it just made sense that\u2026 So, we\u2019ve been doing the whole Zoom thing and it started with GoTo Meeting and so forth, and using online systems like Basecamp. So, yeah, I just think more and more companies learned that, \u201cWow, you can really broaden your pool of potential employees if you can hire anyone from anywhere and not have to move them.\u201d So, a lot of stodgy companies learned some new tricks over the last two years that they might really like, and then cutting back on office space, why would you not? Companies are going to want to cut their budgets. So, yeah, I think the 30-Day Stay, well, it\u2019s a great book, I loved writing the foreword for it and getting to know them better. I\u2019m going to read the book a second time. You and I, I think we have a competition now. We got to go do this.<\/p>\n
Dave:
One of us has to do it first. Yeah, I\u2019m already thinking, I have some markets in mind.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Good.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Maybe this will be\u2026 We\u2019ve already all been talking about how On the Market, our cast, needs to buy something together. Maybe it\u2019ll be a medium-term rental.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, either we buy together or even just looking at something maybe you own that\u2019s underperforming.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
I have a Cleveland property that\u2019s a really nice property. It just never occurred to me to\u2026<\/p>\n
Dave:
Oh, that\u2019s a great idea.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
It\u2019s a decent income, but wouldn\u2019t it be nice to double it?<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah, yeah, that would be awesome. I really liked what Sarah is saying, because I guess in my head I don\u2019t know a lot about mid-term rentals but I will read the book, is that I\u2019m always just worried about the regulation. Because right now it\u2019s like 30 days, and I kind of just worry about city\u2019s just moving the goal posts. Like If everyone\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, 30 days,\u201d then the city comes back, they\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s 45,\u201d and it just becomes this game. But, I really like what she said about doing this even in markets where short-term rentals are allowed, because sort of like you\u2019re saying, repurposing an existing property, now that gives you three options. You could have short-term rental, medium-term rental, or a long term rental. It\u2019s the type of maximizing your exit strategies we talk a lot about on BiggerPockets, this is just one more way you can make a lot of cash flow and just keep optimizing your existing portfolio based on current market conditions.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Yeah, and I don\u2019t really worry too much about the regulatory part of it because you just can\u2019t stop progress. People want to and they don\u2019t want things to change. But, look at Uber and all the pressure from the taxi industry saying, \u201cYou can\u2019t be here.\u201d They\u2019ve kind of learned to coexist, and I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re going to see here. That 30 day has been pretty common, the month to month lease is 30 days. So, I don\u2019t know, I can\u2019t imagine they can mess with that too much. So, it does seem like a great option if you want that higher income from a furnished rental, but don\u2019t want to deal with regulations on the short-term.<\/p>\n
Dave:
Yeah, for sure. It\u2019s really interesting. I think in Arizona maybe, the Supreme Court ruled that the regulations on short-term rentals went against the state\u2019s constitution. So, I\u2019m curious that like it could go that way too and open up more short-term rentals. But, I think we\u2019re just sort of at this weird pivot point now where regulations are coming, maybe they\u2019re illegal, I don\u2019t know. Or, maybe there\u2019ll be more of them. But, I love that idea of just having a lot of optionality. Makes it pretty safe. All right. Well, thanks, Kathy. It was fun as always and appreciate it, and obviously I should\u2019ve known that you wrote the foreword to this book, but it was fun to have someone who is so knowledgeable about this topic. Join for this episode.<\/p>\n
Kathy:
Thank you. It was fun. I love being here.<\/p>\n
Dave:
All right. Well, thank you all for listening. If you enjoyed this show, please make sure to share it. If you think there\u2019s people you know who would be interested in medium-term rentals, send it along so they can hear about the book and learn from Zeona and Sarah directly. With that, we will see you next time for On the Market.
On the Market is created by me, Dave Meyer and Kalin Bennett. Produced by Kalin Bennett, editing by Joel Esparza and Onyx Media. Copywriting by Nate Weintraub. A very special thanks to the entire BiggerPockets team. The content on the show, On the Market, are opinions only. All listeners should independently verify data points, opinions, and investment strategies.<\/p>\n
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Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
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Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Finding cash flow isn\u2019t easy, especially with rising interest rates, high home prices, inflation, and an economic crunch on everyday investors. Where is the best place to park your cash while riding out today\u2019s economic unfolding? Some say vacation rentals\u2014the highly popular (and even higher cash-flowing) real estate strategy many new investors have adopted. But […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":4091,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/OTM_45_YT_.jpg","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4090","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4090","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4090"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4090\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4092,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4090\/revisions\/4092"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4091"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4090"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4090"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4090"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}