{"id":4239,"date":"2022-11-10T14:21:40","date_gmt":"2022-11-10T14:21:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/?p=4239"},"modified":"2022-11-10T14:21:40","modified_gmt":"2022-11-10T14:21:40","slug":"seven-figure-flips-and-opportunity-zone-investing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/2022\/11\/10\/seven-figure-flips-and-opportunity-zone-investing\/","title":{"rendered":"Seven-Figure Flips and Opportunity Zone Investing"},"content":{"rendered":"


\n<\/p>\n

House flips<\/strong>, opportunity zone investing<\/strong>, student housing<\/strong><\/a>\u2014name a real estate strategy, Evan Turner<\/strong>, former NBA player<\/strong>, has probably done it. Unlike most professional athletes, Evan left the league with more assets than at the peak of his career. He was buying real estate, building homes, and making moves while working <\/strong>a grueling six days a week <\/strong>schedule, knowing that he had to use this opportunity to build something that went far beyond basketball.<\/p>\n

Evan grew up in the inner city with a single parent. The realities of struggling for money were all too real for him when he got hit with millions of dollars in his early 20s<\/strong>. He struggled to spend any money for the first few years of his NBA career, which led him to have a surplus that he used in all the right ways. Relying on NBA veterans around him, Evan knew that to <\/strong>build wealth<\/strong><\/a>, he needed to up his assets. The most tangible thing he could think of investing in? Real estate.<\/p>\n

Now, with many deals under his belt<\/strong>, Evan has become proficient in almost every aspect of buying, funding, and profiting on a real estate deal. He, like many other investors, is seen as lucky for buying consistently throughout the past decade<\/strong>. But Evan knows that the rewards he reaps today came from smart decisions he made years ago<\/strong>. Now, even after he\u2019s out of the game, Evan is still able to bring in seven-figure paychecks<\/strong>. But this time, thanks to smart strategizing, he\u2019ll get to keep most of it.<\/p>\n

\n

David:
This is the BiggerPockets podcast show, 686.<\/p>\n

Evan:
I\u2019m a competitor and I compete at basketball at a high level, but I\u2019m good on a journey and minding my own business. You understand? I think one thing that occurs as you get older, even doing contract negotiations, the humility in that is making sure you don\u2019t miss out on your money or the right deal or situation worrying about what the person left the right has. You know what I mean? It\u2019s like a marriage, that relationship has nothing to do with anybody besides those two people.<\/p>\n

David:
What\u2019s up everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast, the best, the biggest, the baddest, real estate podcast in the world here today with an amazing episode for you. Today, my co-host, Rob Abasolo and I are interviewing our friend, Evan Turner. Evan had a very impressive NBA career. And while he was in the NBA doing his thing, he was also buying real estate. He\u2019s now a businessman and entrepreneur, and a real estate investor and has been making bigger and bigger moves since he first got started. And he comes on the show to share with us his process, his journey, what he\u2019s buying, how he\u2019s buying it, and how he looks at the world. And you\u2019re going to love what you hear. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh man. This is a favy-fave, as I call it, this is one of my favorite episodes, man. We were just really having a lot of fun. And for those of you, if you stick around to the very end, you\u2019re going to see me drop, I don\u2019t mean to be so intense about it, but some pretty intense basketball analogies there at the end. So I would definitely stick around to the end.<\/p>\n

David:
You cannot miss this. Everybody, you have to listen to this show. Rob and his basketball, I don\u2019t know if analogies is the best word, references are worthy of being made into a T-shirt. You definitely need to say these words to Rob when you see him in real life. It was so bad it was good, in a way that only Rob Abasolo can do. By the way, guys, this episode\u2019s a little bit longer, so we\u2019re going to make a shorter intro for you, because we took advantage of as much as we could to get as much out of Evan\u2019s brain as possible, which is why it\u2019s such a good show.
Before we bring in Evan, today\u2019s quick tip is, consider looking into opportunity zones as a way to save in taxes and still help the community. This is a wonderful marriage of social improvements along with smart business moves. And it\u2019s one of the best moves that I think the government has made in a sense where you can get massive tax savings by investing in opportunity zones that also help the community where those properties are. And another part of Evan\u2019s success was his understanding that you win better as a team. So look for ways to surround yourself with like-minded people on the same journey as you, with the same goals as you that are highly skilled in what they do, and find a way for you to contribute as well. All right, enough of that. Let\u2019s bring in Evan.
Evan Turner, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. Great to have you here, my friend.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you guys.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. Now if anyone hasn\u2019t heard of Evan Turner, I\u2019ve never actually said this, so this will be the first time Evan\u2019s hearing it, he was one of the people that I actually, actually followed your NBA career, Evan. When you first came out of college, I loved the way you played. A lot of people, they hear me talk about jujitsu, but basketball was my first love. And I don\u2019t know, you were just the person who got it. You understood the game at a pretty high level. I really liked watching you play. We\u2019ve talked about the stuff that we like and the things people don\u2019t like. I was a San Antonio Spurs fan. I hated when people were like, \u201cOh, they\u2019re boring.\u201d It\u2019s like, no, they just play basketball the right way. They\u2019re good.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, they don\u2019t dunk all the time, they\u2019re boring. So you were like that San Antonio Spurs style of, you understood the game as a whole. So I\u2019ve been following you for a while. I had no idea that you were actually a real estate investor. It\u2019s very cool to get to know you here. And now you actually have your own podcast. So you can tell us a little bit about that and the stuff you guys talk about.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me, for one, I\u2019m a big fan of your platform. And everything you\u2019re doing is definitely dope and this is cool. I\u2019ve been telling all my friends I was going to be on this podcast, so everybody\u2019s been like, \u201cFor real?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019m really going to be on there.\u201d So\u2026<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, Rob dressed up just because he knew that you were-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Really? Yeah, I heard he added a pocket to his black T-shirt he used to wear. So\u2026<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s right. I keep all my snacks in here.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Hey, that\u2019s all that matters.<\/p>\n

Rob:
If you hear me crunching-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Hey, don\u2019t worry.<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u2026 just a few pretzels hanging out.<\/p>\n

Evan:
I appreciate that. But like you were saying before, David, I just retired recently, in 2020, from a 10 year NBA career and right now myself and Andre Iguodala, we started a podcast. We just start our second season, it\u2019s called the Point Forward Podcast. Much like David was saying, it\u2019s a play on words from a certain type of position in basketball, which myself and Iguodala were point forwards. And obviously we talk a little bit about basketball, but it\u2019s not fully a basketball podcast. We go over business elements of the podcast, we go over current events and we like to have a overall good time, just like this show. So the basketball part is the second element. But we\u2019re really trying to give free game and have the real conversations that most people won\u2019t have in their position.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, man. So I\u2019m curious, you were in the NBA here for about a good decade. So how did your day to day look? Your entire career, did it change or was it always a pretty regimented day to day for you?<\/p>\n

Evan:
It\u2019s always a pretty regimen day to day. I think you guys know as well as anything when you\u2019re focusing and locked in and you\u2019re passionate about something, I felt like it had been basketball 15, 16 hours a day since I was probably 12 years old. So entering the NBA, it was the first real time I had an opportunity to do it as a career. So the first, you have to really wake up and it\u2019s six days a week. You usually get to the facility around 8:00 AM practice usually starts at 11:00. In between there you\u2019re getting your preparation going, you\u2019re eating meals, you\u2019re getting stretching, you\u2019re probably doing body work. Then you\u2019re also lifting weights and then you\u2019re going through a two, two and a half hour crazy regimen practice. And you probably leave the facility each day by 2:30 or 3:00 PM if you\u2019re lucky after healing and icing and taking care of your body. And you go back home and do it the next day. So it\u2019s usually off and on, even if you\u2019re not including game days, a 10 hour thing sometimes.<\/p>\n

David:
With that downtime, I got to imagine a guy you who\u2019s a very cerebral player, you\u2019re actually a very cultured man as well, we talked for about 15 minutes before we started recording and, man, you were all over the place. That was pretty cool to see. What was your thought process like? What emotions were you going through when you were in the middle of the career and you realize that real estate was a road that you wanted to explore?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I think it was just a door I was thankful that I could knock on because at the end of the day, when you make it to the NBA and you\u2019re living such a fast life, the opportunities that you have, you have access to a lot of money, you have access to the best of best things. And like everything else, you have to govern yourself in order to explore it and also in order to learn. And I think that was one thing I was able to do where real estate somewhat gave me the flexibility. I knew if I bought a piece of property, it wasn\u2019t going to pick up and leave on me. And when I first started out at, which was Columbus, Ohio, I was able to have a familiarity with the people and the environment in order for me to invest and be able to leave and have a time demanding job like the NBA.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Was there a little bit of a real estate bug at any point during your career or was it really something that at the very end you decided to go into it? Did you see other friends investing in real estate? What was really that catalyst for you?<\/p>\n

Evan:
To be honest with you, I don\u2019t know you all\u2019s background, but where I came from, the typical stuff, I was an inner city kid, single parent home and everything. So to comprehend money, I wasn\u2019t too familiar with that. And then going to the NBA and have a large lump sum of money and you hear all these crazy stories around that time, you\u2019re just coming out of one of the biggest financial crisis and everything. So when my finance company is trying to suggest in investing in stocks, I never really believed in that. I was more so, humbly speaking, just being like, \u201cNo, show me what I own,\u201d more so than tell me about what\u2019s going to happen and hit me with the [inaudible 00:08:04]. And I think to say that story was just an understatement because I wanted to make sure my money worked for me. And, David, like what you said, money\u2019s energy.
So I wanted to make sure I had money going somewhere in an asset with the finances that I had much more than just sitting on it and not making it work for me. And I was always fortunate enough to have family and mentors like my mom to tell me that basketball isn\u2019t always going to be there and I got to make sure that my plan B is being worked on before I need it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Totally. So going from not having a lot of money to getting that large lump sum payment, that\u2019s pretty weird. I\u2019ve gone through this in my real estate entrepreneurial career a couple of times and it\u2019s really hard to comprehend.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, for real.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Did you ever look at your accounts and everything and just not really believe it? What was that whole thought process?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Now, to be honest with you, I don\u2019t know how you feel when you look at some of your stuff, but I\u2019m so grateful that sometimes when I look at my accounts and stuff, it\u2019s not like it brings a tear up to my eyes or anything, but I\u2019m just saying, I\u2019m just grateful that this is really mine. You know what I mean? This is what hard work really brings. And I guess, as you guys comprehend, it takes years and years and years to see the fruits of your labor. So I\u2019m just appreciative to really have stuck in with a dream, a passion, and all the sacrifices I\u2019ve made to see it come back in that type of form is a blessing. And it\u2019s something I never take for granted because in this situation there\u2019s a reason why they call it the 1%. Not many people are able to experience that. So you have survivors remorse, but at the same time when you\u2019re on your hustle, you are appreciative towards it and you deserve it.<\/p>\n

Rob:
100%. Yeah, I really do struggle with this a lot because, I\u2019m not going to say I came from nothing, that\u2019s definitely not true, my parents were immigrants from Mexico and money was tight growing up, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And so it\u2019s been very hard to break out of this because I have this big fear of losing it all because I\u2019m just like, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t know, I don\u2019t want to go back.\u201d But I don\u2019t know, what was your first big mindset shift going into this new phase of life where money was plentiful? Were you using that as an opportunity to learn? Were you going back to your family with that? What were some of those big changes for you?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I think the biggest changes for me, obviously the first thing you do is go take care of your mom. You know what I mean? And I wanted to take care of my mom, get her house and everything. But I think the biggest change for me was trying to fully comprehend what money was. That\u2019s an understatement. It is a huge lump sum of money. I wanted to make sure I came in with the right opportunity and plan to have it work the right way for me. I was more so scared of losing it more than anything. And that was a big fear to me, almost so much to the first point, my first three or four years, I barely spent money on anything. I think I was fortunate enough to have reached a certain financial mark by the age of 24 that would\u2019ve took care of me for the rest of my life in that certain realm.
So I was still touching the water, seeing how hot it was. But during that time I wasn\u2019t hesitant to dive into real estate and to invest in that because I knew for sure I want an asset along with keeping the money with me.<\/p>\n

David:
Okay. That is very insightful because-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
\u2026 it\u2019s odd that you hear a person who\u2026 You hear about lottery winners, the majority of them don\u2019t keep their wealth, hardly any of them do. In fact, their life tends to go to crap when they get that money. The analogy that I use is it\u2019s like you never worked out and you held this barbell above your chest for bench press and someone throws four plates on each side when you hit that. You had no foundation to handle that and the money crushes you. So I\u2019m sure a lot of the people that were making money through being a professional athlete that you\u2019re around, it was a scenario for them. They never had it, they got a bunch of it all at once. They weren\u2019t trained for how to handle a weight of that, they lose it.
You were in almost the opposite scenario, you\u2019re saying, I was afraid of losing that money and I had to overcome the fear of losing what I had gained as opposed to the discipline of saving it. What do you think led up to the moment when you received the money and you wanted to keep it that was different in you than in some of the people that were around you?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I just think the upbringing, I\u2019m not trying to make my situation seem like, \u201cOh I came from this,\u201d or try to write a documentary on myself. But I think a lot of times as simple as fact as this, if money doesn\u2019t mean something to you, you weren\u2019t broke enough. You know what I mean? And it is a God-honest truth. So when you break it down, I believe in Darwinism, survival of the fittest. You understand? And there\u2019s a game we play, a life, and there\u2019s certain things that you really have to take into consideration in order to win. And it\u2019s all the stuff they taught you as a kid, make your next move your best move. And I think the environment I hung around as well. I\u2019ve been fortunate enough to have the right type of people around me.
I came into a locker room as a rookie where I had Elton Brand who was huge in investing in real estate, investing in movies. I had Andre Iguodala speaks for himself, he\u2019s a tech entrepreneur and he is very business savvy. I was fortunate enough to be around the right people. And with my notoriety the right type of people came into my circle that can give me, even if it was bad finance advice, it was more than I ever heard growing up. You know what I mean? And I think that type of environment really was able to mold me because I was able to stay in the right rooms and somewhat get the leftovers of game.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s really cool, man. So was one of your first pieces of real estate that you bought the house for your mom?<\/p>\n

Evan:
First real piece of real estate I bought? Honestly, so the first one I bought, we had rented a spot for her and I bought a five unit in Columbus, Ohio, while her spot was being built. So we could say 50, 50, whatever, got closer. But, I was able to buy a 5,000 square foot crib in a up and coming community outside of Columbus that was able to make a pretty penny when we sold it. We bought in and I think the land in 2010 and the house was done at 344. We were able to sell it for 655 as of a year ago.<\/p>\n

David:
So that I think is one of the huge, huge, huge foundational pieces for someone that becomes a real estate investor. It\u2019s so important that you have a good experience on your first deal. We all have this amazing amount of fear. People don\u2019t realize it, I\u2019m sure the two of you would agree, the three of us, even today when I buy a house, I still have fear. There\u2019s always that, what if, that hangs over your head. And it\u2019s amplified in the beginning when you get that first one. And if you have a bad experience, you\u2019re like, I\u2019m never doing it again. You have a good experience, it really helps to overcome that fear. So what I love that you\u2019re describing is it was a primary residence. That\u2019s what you\u2019re saying, the first house you bought was a place for your mom. Right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yes, yes, yes.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. That is why we talk about house hacking so often because it gives you an experience to get your toe dipped in without getting your foot bit off by the shark or without drowning. Was that how your experience was?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, basically we were able to buy into an area early, build a house up, and there was no real pressure that was just an asset, you know what I mean? It was a very good asset, in my opinion, at that time, that when we sat on it we were able to live and made memories and it\u2019s time to move on. I was grateful we bought it because, like I said, prior to, we were able to double our investment on it and it taught me a lot as an investor in buying into something and seeing how it builds. And like you said prior to, money\u2019s energy. I put however much money into that house and without looking and just living and enjoying myself in it, we were able to make double off at what we put in, so that was a blessing. That\u2019s one thing I always take with me when it comes to continuing to try to build and keep my patience.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure, sure. So you buy a five unit, you sell it, you make a really good profit, and then what happens after that?<\/p>\n

Evan:
So after that I went on a campus and I bought two six bedrooms on campus where students could rent properties from and I own that. Obviously, with real estate, I was able to get that on campus. I put it in a LLC. And one good thing about that is we\u2019re able to do from August to August type situation. You can guarantee that most of the students, especially back then, student loans, all that money, all that rent, is going to be guaranteed each month. So I was able to take advantage of a open real estate market in Columbus and finesse from there. And with that, which I was fortunate enough to occur, is with those same builders, I took that money and the profits from that money and I invested into a new apartment condominium that was built in 2014.
It was called 600 Goodale. I invested a couple 100,000 with a 8% rate of return. And within the first two years I was able to get all my money back, which was big time. And then from there, once they sold it, fortunately enough, it\u2019s been an annual return of 36% since then.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Dang. That\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, so that was shout out to the-<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s a good experience there too.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah man, it is good experience mixed with a lot of good luck. Like I said, coming to Columbus, Ohio, you guys are all familiar, I live a couple blocks away from campus. But being out here you have a lot of real estate developers such as the Kaufmans, the Schottenstein families, the Schiff families, the [inaudible 00:18:06], the Diamonds, where I was fortunate enough with basketball to do well here that had opened doors and open opportunities to invest in some really good opportunities where Columbus was being built up as I was making my wealth. You know?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s really all that much luck. Obviously you made it into the NBA and had a successful career because you had hard work. Luck is a component that comes into play when you\u2019re really good at something. So you\u2019re obviously crushing it in the real estate game at this point. You get the house, you make a sale, you get a couple of six bedrooms and then you invest in this apartment condominium. At what point do you feel you told yourself, I\u2019m pretty good at this?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I keep it humble in that sense, because I thought, respectfully, if you ask me what I\u2019m an expert at, I was an expert, it\u2019s proven, at basketball. You understand what I\u2019m saying? So I think, after a first couple, talking with some of my mentors, some of my advisors, I was like, man, this is turning out pretty good enough to the point where I\u2019m passing up on trying to buy certain cars and being like, \u201cYo, I\u2019m going to get this car after I flip this to take that,\u201d almost to the point where I would leave my city in the fall, go work where I had to work at and come back in the spring and feel as though I was going to come back and reap the rewards of a pretty good investment. So I don\u2019t know if that was a sure thing much, but I thought it was going to work for me and luckily it has.<\/p>\n

David:
Well something that I learned in basketball, I think a lot of people who played that sport or other team sports learn, is that your individual skills of whatever type you have manifest very differently within a different group. So you could take a certain player and put them on a team and they are lackluster and then they get on another team and like, boom-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Absolutely.<\/p>\n

David:
\u2026 They\u2019re amazing. Right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Absolutely.<\/p>\n

David:
And I think that doesn\u2019t get talked about very often because, most of the conversation, let\u2019s use the basketball example here, would be about how you improve your own skills, ball handling, defense, shooting the ball, strength, speed, jumping. But the really smart players are the ones who say, now I know I would be good in this environment. And they actually make that a part of their career, is they\u2019re willing to take a little bit less money to play longer on the right team. That works in business too.
You can have an incredibly skilled person who can analyze properties great, network really good, they have some version of skill within real estate investing, but they never get around the right team. They don\u2019t have the right advisors, they don\u2019t have the right environment, there\u2019s no deals where they\u2019re looking. They don\u2019t have a bookkeeper, an accountant, a construction\u2026 Sometimes just having a contractor that\u2019s solid can make a deal work for you that would not have worked if you didn\u2019t have that one piece. You\u2019ve mentioned you were blessed enough to be surrounded by some mentors and some guidance in the right piece. What role did that team that you found yourself around play in helping you be successful in this endeavor?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I think everything. I think they helped a lot due to the simple fact of their willingness. You understand what I\u2019m saying? It\u2019s one thing for people to work with you, it\u2019s another thing for people to help you. And I think along those lines, in regards to us doing good business together, each time we were able to make a flip or do something or when I would come up to somebody and be like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m looking for some deals, I\u2019m looking to invest,\u201d I was always fortunate enough to be turned in the right direction. And also I think in regards to just behind the scene things, in regards to funding, you might get into a deal where the developers are guaranteeing all the risk. You know what I\u2019m saying? And we\u2019re able to just invest freely. I thought the support and the timing of the people in the city of Columbus helped the most with me.
I think my finance advisors finding the right type of loans, making sure, from day one, my business and my finances were in order to make sure I had ways to free up lines of credit. Making me comprehend how important the lines of credit is in order to get things done. Because right now I\u2019m playing in a situation where my interest rate is still at four when everybody\u2019s still at 10. You understand what I\u2019m saying? So those type of moments where I\u2019m able to be able to have a team that can foresee a forecast and have me steer towards less turbulent air is everything because I haven\u2019t really felt a bump in the road yet. I\u2019ve been able to keep adding more and more points to my portfolio.<\/p>\n

Rob:
And that makes sense to have those mentors and the people that you\u2019re working with and the people that are helping you. I got to imagine, too, that you probably had some buds also coming out of the league and everything like that, that were also doing real estate. Were you surrounding yourself with more people that were like-minded at that point? Or were you keeping your network the same for the first couple of years?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I\u2019ve always been told, even my mentor, my OAU coach, Coach Mullins, he used to always just tell me, even when I was in college and stuff, just like, \u201cWhat book are you reading? Make sure you read something.\u201d Or if he heard I went to a rap concert or whatever it\u2019s like, \u201cAll right, bro, stop going to rap concerts, go up the street, go see Hamilton,\u201d or, \u201cGo\u2026\u201d You know what I mean? I always-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Good choice. Good choice.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. But I\u2019ve always been encouraged to go outside of my element and go learn more. And I\u2019m a stubborn individual and some people say I might not listen a lot, but in certain areas I made sure, for whatever reason, I listened at the right time. And that was one thing I always knew that was important to my development, because crossing into an unreal world in the NBA, I was more so wary of making sure I didn\u2019t lose myself or my footing and to really keep in touch with the people and the elements around me, whether it became real estate or it became some other hobby, was part of my everyday regimen. And I think that\u2019s where it helped benefit me in the right rooms of meeting people who wanted to buy real estate.<\/p>\n

David:
I think it\u2019s very easy for anyone in any capacity to just zoom in on their own thing and not take that perspective, like you said, getting exposed to more stuff. So I see this with investors where they\u2019re very comfortable analyzing a property. They\u2019re the people that like to use a spreadsheet, they like to run numbers and they just do that over and over and over and they never zoom out and take a look at, is the market I\u2019m analyzing a good market to be in at all? Or what does the appraiser do? How do they come up with the numbers that they\u2019re looking at? The more you learn about the different people\u2019s jobs that are in whatever you are doing, the better your chance of being successful in that. And I think you stumbled into that without realizing that was necessarily happening by just exposing yourself to more than the little stuff that was around you. Right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Absolutely. And I think one thing that occurs as well is, with anything, is humility. Sometimes when I get too cocky on a basketball court, the basketball guys are going to teach me my lesson. You know what I mean? So even coming around into this business world, I think I was able to keep my ears open because I was humble because I comprehended who the experts were. The same way I got off my butt, rearranged everything, when I found out about the BiggerPockets conference. Because at the end of the day I need to go around and be around like-minded people and go talk to the people that have been doing this at a high, high level and that can show me different ways of thinking and maneuvering. It is never changed. It\u2019s just me want to learn and when my direction\u2019s going that way, I\u2019m going to knock on those doors and try to walk through them.<\/p>\n

David:
Have you seen a pattern of others around you that want to get a piece of what you\u2019re doing, whether it\u2019s business, entrepreneurship, tech, real estate, and you\u2019ve noticed the thing that stops them from pinning through the doorway of where you\u2019re at is a lack of humility?<\/p>\n

Evan:
I think a lack of humility always turns into ignorance because you mix humility in with learning. And when you learn, that\u2019s where innovation comes from. And I think a lot of guys, they\u2019ll stop at the door when they see how hard it takes or how many loops they have to jump. Or sometimes the number one thing, as you guys may know, everything ruins when the percentages come in and we\u2019re fighting over money that doesn\u2019t even exist yet. You know what I\u2019m saying? I think a lot of times those dudes are so wary of coming into those problems mixed in with, if you don\u2019t surround yourself with the right people, there\u2019s a lot of crooks in this day and age as well. So I think guys stay on the stoop more so than going to adventure off.<\/p>\n

David:
So you\u2019re referring to the people that are arguing over the split of an endeavor before they even understand how the money flows or what they\u2019re going to be doing, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, just that type.<\/p>\n

David:
Which is really ego, that\u2019s what you\u2019re getting at, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n

David:
I need to have the bigger share because of my ego, even though they don\u2019t really understand. I\u2019ll give you an example that makes me think about in sports. Sometimes you see a player negotiate a ridiculously large contract for them on a team and then the team has no money left in the salary cap to bring anybody else in, and then they lose.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. And then they\u2019re talking about, I\u2019m trying to win, I\u2019m trying to win. It\u2019s like, bro, with all due respect, all the great gave up money. If you want that 20 point score\u2026 You know what I mean? 35 million and 40 million, it\u2019s a difference, but it ain\u2019t much of a difference. You\u2019re going to get it back some way.<\/p>\n

David:
In other ways, that\u2019s exactly right. One of the things we\u2019ve been talking about within the businesses I run is, stop talking with words telling me what you want. So you\u2019d hear these people say, \u201cI\u2019m doing everything I can to bring a championship to the city.\u201d That\u2019s what your words say, but your actions say, \u201cI\u2019m getting every dollar I can for myself,\u201d and now they got to go bring in a 38 year old veteran or draft a rookie who can\u2019t play yet to fit within the salary cap. Your actions are telling me, no, you\u2019re actually just trying to get paid and the championship would come second. Now we\u2019re not trying to win championships in real estate, but there is something to be said about what your actions are saying to the world and to other people versus your words.<\/p>\n

Evan:
No, bro, that\u2019s a understatement. You hit the nail on the head because when you break it down and you\u2019re working with certain teams, it\u2019s like, \u201cYo, this is about the development, this is about the bigger picture.\u201d And sometimes you look at guys you would think they got a reality TV show following them around, you know what I mean? And I think one thing, the humility is, I\u2019m willing to work as a team with this real estate group, I want to make sure I\u2019m investing the best things and whatever can happen best for the group. It\u2019s great for us because like Warren Buffet said, \u201cYou don\u2019t want to lose a dime.\u201d So if it comes down to like the urgent care campus I own, I just sold recently in 2021, I partnered 50, 50 with someone out there. You know what I mean? We took a responsibility, took the accountability. But I partner 50, 50 with someone out there in 2019. 2020 hits, pandemic occurs and we\u2019re booming and all that type of stuff.
And just recently I was able to sell that at a 50, 50 split and got a sizable profit from there just off being able to partner up and not trying to control the situation and financing what is a right and good idea and good play. You know?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Well that\u2019s awesome. So obviously you were crushing it there at the very beginning and you were diversifying there with all the different types of units. Now that you\u2019ve spent some time in real estate, can you help us understand what your goals are and how you set those goals for yourself?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Being honest with you, next thing I invested in is block housing. So it\u2019s basically, in Columbus we got funding from the city or whatever, but it\u2019s just more housing. Everybody\u2019s screaming out that we don\u2019t have enough rental housing and rental property. But I want to make sure we\u2019re able to develop something where it\u2019s providing more homes for people that grew up in my situation. You know what I mean? I definitely have ambitions of making sure\u2026 I do like to luxury real estate and the vacation real estate, but I definitely want to go back to my old neighborhoods and stomping grounds of that matter and building, buying portfolios and foreclosed homes and rebuilding a block. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Is that something that\u2019s important to you just because of your upbringing and everything like that?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, I think it\u2019s very important because at the end of the day it\u2019s like, how hard is it to put something decent for the youth to grow up in? You understand what I\u2019m saying? I used to hoop in the alley. It takes nothing to pave a spot, go put a basketball court over there or\u2026 You know what I mean? Go put something that is really going and help the families, but then also help the future. Whether it be a area with a decent swimming pool, an area with a decent computer lab or\u2026 You know what I mean? I want to make sure, in those city areas, much like, I don\u2019t know where you all are from, but in the city areas, in those isolated dead areas, sometimes our resources, we get cut off from the rest of the world. So we don\u2019t get the Whole Foods, we get the Dollar Generals or Save-a-Lots, you know what I mean?
We don\u2019t get the Sunkist, we get the orange pop. You know what I mean? Like the knockoff stuff.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Dr S.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. Yeah. And I want to make sure we bring back positivity towards the hood because it starts with yourself. Once you start appreciating your environment and what you have, that\u2019s going to breed confidence and everything else, so that\u2019s one thing I really want to do that\u2019s a big picture. And then other than that, I would love to own vacation real estate all over. I would love to do that in Lake Como, own in Bali. I want to own in Barcelona. It\u2019s tons of places I visited. I definitely want to tap into those markets.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I haven\u2019t really dived into the international vacation rental market yet, but, hey, Barcelona sounds nice.<\/p>\n

Evan:
But you\u2019re diving into something that\u2019s pretty cool though. What is it? The hotels?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Yeah, we bought a unit motel in New York-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
\u2026 few months go.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, I love that idea. That\u2019s going to be unbelievable because that way you can theme everything, you guys are going to have theme type vibes. I think, obviously I want to steal your idea, but in the grand scheme of things, curating those type of environments and everything is something I would really be interested in, for sure. I think those type of getaways, even if you see my condo, it\u2019s filled with art and just the type of vibe and theme that really curates your energy and mood.<\/p>\n

David:
One of the things I really liked about what the government did with the tax code in the last couple years was the creation of opportunity zones where they rewarded investors with tax benefits if they invested into areas that they deemed as an opportunity zone, which were typically lower income, struggling. They\u2019re not getting the same influx of resources that the nicer areas are going to be. What are your thoughts on that principle as a way of building wealth that as the investor improves the area, they also make themselves money and you have a win-win scenario?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, I think it\u2019s necessary because you have to entice people. You know what I mean? I don\u2019t think anybody\u2019s going over there or any smart investor is going to try to go over there and start with rebuild where there\u2019s no guarantee of anything coming to support you. So I think that\u2019s a perk you get for taking that type of chance and trying to rebuild certain parts that literally been systemically forgotten. You know what I\u2019m saying? When we talk about those opportunity zones, we\u2019re going back to the 1940s when we\u2019re talking about the racial wealth gap in America and everything that\u2019s happened systemically, the housing loans only granting 98% of the best real estate to whites. You know what I\u2019m saying? That type of situation. So I think when it comes down to it, we hate talking about reparations, but in certain areas you have to have that to support, especially, when it comes to black athletes or black entertainers that made it out that area. Odd are, a lot of times, unless it\u2019s super beneficial or developers haven\u2019t talked about building that area up prior to or trying to gentrify it, nothing\u2019s ever coming.
And the only people helping other people that climb out that barrel from the other crabs, you know what I mean?<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, for sure.<\/p>\n

Evan:
So it\u2019s deeper than rap. I hope the city and everybody in the government keeps trying to do more to help invest in those upbringings. Because at the end of the day, much more than real estate, we\u2019re only as good as our worst guy, you know that ,David? We\u2019re only as good as the last man on the bench. I\u2019m not saying anybody in those low income areas, but at the same time it\u2019s just a truth. There\u2019s no such thing, I\u2019m not okay if I\u2019m making a bajillion dollars and the guy the street is messed up, that\u2019s just not ill.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Yeah. I think opportunity zones do create that win-win for a lot of people. We actually did a whole episode with Malachi Sims, episode 599, for everyone at home listening. I would really recommend checking that one out.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh yeah, I have all the episodes memorized. No, I\u2019m just kidding. I looked it up. But have you done much investing in opportunity zones yet or is that a big goal for you moving into 2023?<\/p>\n

Evan:
So recently, with the block housing, I just invested\u2026 Actually, from a shoe company that I signed with, David, coming out I took a bunch of stock back in 2010. That stock was at a few pennies that grew to a bunch. I was able to take money out of there and invested strictly into opportunity zone. So like I said-<\/p>\n

David:
Did you avoid some of the capital gains from the gain you had in the whatever?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So like I said, that\u2019s one, in circles from having a great team, that don\u2019t let me take all. Shout to Steve Vujevich, [inaudible 00:36:13] Financial, that was the team doing that. Matt Anderson, that was the team doing that and making that play. So when we were able to do that, we\u2019re able to put it into opportunity zones, the block housing. And with that, the city was able to work with us as well. So we\u2019re able to be able to build some stuff coming up. We\u2019re in production right now.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s what I loved about the opportunity zone approach is it didn\u2019t try to guilt people into investing money into something that would lose them money. And it didn\u2019t say, \u201cWell, forget it, they don\u2019t pull themselves out so let\u2019s just ignore.\u201d There was a way of saying, \u201cListen, rather than, us, taking your money and the government trying to make this better, which is going to be 10 times more expensive than it should be and be a terrible job, let\u2019s take the people that are good at real estate investing, give them a tax break to get them to go in and do what they are good at. And then everyone wins.\u201d And I love, Evan, how you tied it together, where you added the team aspect we talked about earlier. You had people that understood the shoe business. I\u2019m sure your contributions to that company, when you bought the stock for pennies, you realize some of your direction, council, guidance, whatever resources you\u2019re bringing to that investment would make it more likely to be successful.
Then it does well. You take the profit out, you reinvest it into the thing that you care about, it benefits you because you don\u2019t get hammered on taxes. So now you\u2019re not dis-incentivized to do another project just like it. And you get to invest in the area that matters to your heart, which gets you more motivated and amped up to do it again. As opposed to, like we said, you had that bad experience on your first deal, you don\u2019t want to do it anymore. If you have your bad experience with your first, I\u2019m trying to help somebody at my own expense now, you don\u2019t want to help anymore.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. Right, right, right.<\/p>\n

David:
Everything worked well, now you want to play the game harder.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, no, and that\u2019s absolutely right. I think one thing that\u2019s occurring now that I retired, just being an adult, I want to take the gloves off, and obviously have my team with me, but have my hand held a little less. You know what I mean? And in order to go from being an investor and developing smaller things to, like I said, getting groups and me being a forefront of the funding and developing big commercial buildings where there\u2019s a seven 11 at the bottom or whatever cool chain store there is and there\u2019s luxury buildings up top. You know what I\u2019m saying? So I think that it\u2019s a next level of playing harder and trying to make it to the Hall of Fame to say the least.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Well, we have a understanding of where you were growing, but can you give us a snapshot now of the different types of bigger projects and developments that you\u2019re working on? Because I know you\u2019re doing a lot of development now, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, so I\u2019m doing a lot of development now. So even as of recently, I invested it into a unit right off on, it\u2019s called San Marcos residence. It\u2019s in Austin, Texas. So I invested that with Schiff Capital. So it\u2019s about 95% occupied. It was a old, I believe, hotel or something. We invested, we refurbished it back in 2018. It\u2019s a college apartment building, probably 150 doors, 200 doors. So I thought that was a pretty big one I invested in. Right now I have a vacation property that I bought during pandemic for two. I put a little bit into it, probably three. I have it on the market right now for 11. So it\u2019s 8,000 square foot, three houses, guest house, pool, seven acres inside Brier\u2019s Creek golf community right outside Charleston, South Carolina, three miles from Kiowa. So you see that little area, that little area\u2019s been booming.
Obviously, everybody knows about Charleston. It\u2019s one of the most tourists visited cities in America. And we got with a group down there, I think when I first bought the spot during the pandemic in 2020, and obviously as a fixer upper, but I was looking into just using as a vacation property for family and everything. But halfway through, the market, it jumped crazy up. And the house I was building was already pretty spectacular. And I was getting a lot of compliments on it to the point where I was like, if I can make this flip and sell this, I would love to continue on, take that money, buy acreage, and start doing a little 12 unit development.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Man. Okay. I don\u2019t want to gloss over this. That\u2019s a crazy, crazy project. So-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, I\u2019m trying to be humble about it because-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, I know. I know.<\/p>\n

Evan:
If you and I were off this, I\u2019d be hyping be like, bro, guess what I just did. Do you understand what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh yeah. Definitely.<\/p>\n

Evan:
But I\u2019m trying to be calm and not make eye contact and hold my smile.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, no, no.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I like that.<\/p>\n

David:
We\u2019re going to change that right now. You\u2019re going to tell us exactly how you did this?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Hey, look, I\u2019m turning off the record button. Click. Okay.<\/p>\n

Evan:
All right.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Now you can tell me and David. So, all right, you stumble upon this property, you say it\u2019s a vacation property. Let me clarify. Do you mean a vacation rental? Is that the idea? Like it a vacation rental?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Oh no, no. Just a vacation for me and my family. Family home. Like a getaway. From Columbus is an hour plane ride. You land three miles at the airport, three miles, you\u2019re right there into 85 degree weather nonstop. So I\u2019ll go back into how it started. So I was looking into vacation properties and rental properties and I kept hearing about Charleston, Charleston, Charleston. And obviously I don\u2019t like being on planes like that. So I was checking the time limit and everything for flights and I found I was only an hour away. My mentor once again, had people in the area that were very familiar with it. So I was able to go out there, start house hunting and start searching. And we stumbled across Brier\u2019s Creek golf course. And the developer of the golf course was actually selling his own house.
He built it and everything, he was selling and he was trying to get out of there. I think he\u2019s trying to move somewhere to some part of South Carolina, and we showed up. And prior to that we had went to Kiowa. And if you go to Kiowa with anything under 10 million, you\u2019re not finding anything with space. And on top of it, if you\u2019re spending that much money, to me, I want land. So that\u2019s why I ended up in Brier\u2019s Creek. And once I saw the seven acres and the three houses, and I knew it was a fixer upper, I was like, okay, I\u2019ll be able to get this for a pretty good price. The price wasn\u2019t terrible, but the number one thing that I did was try to go out there, find a house and find a contractor that I could trust. You understand what I\u2019m saying?
A contractor that knew the area. And that was my guy from Redwood Contracting and that was Tom Cresanti. And from there we tried to figure out the best way to build the best house and not lose money into it. I like lavish things, I like nice things. So some of our tastes are a little up to par, but when I bought it for two, I was able to put three into it. During that time, I don\u2019t know what happened to the housing market or anything, but my land, my space, everything just catapulted to the point where, by the time it was getting done, we were able to put it on a market for damn near double. You know what I\u2019m saying? And \u2013<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Did it sell?<\/p>\n

Evan:
So we just put on a market two weeks ago and-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh okay.<\/p>\n

Evan:
\u2026 so we have somebody coming tomorrow to take a second look, so it\u2019s people all over. Not to brag on it, if it doesn\u2019t sell by then it\u2019ll be on Selling Kiowa being recorded on the 15. I\u2019ll send you guys a link over after so you can see. But it\u2019s a beautiful crib. And to go deep into it, I think timing and luck, and not just luck but timing and when you know it\u2019s right, it\u2019s right. I didn\u2019t hesitate on this feeling because I went out there trying to probably spend one something or something under, I wasn\u2019t naturally going out there to go in and refurbish something. But once I realized the investment in the property and I saw the opportunity, I\u2019m like, okay, I understand what my budget was, but if I\u2019m up here and it\u2019s an opportunity to do it, I\u2019m going to do it right.
And I think that commitment was what really allowed me to reap the fruits of this labor because I wasn\u2019t hesitant. I was like, I believe in this area, I believe in what I bought, I\u2019m not about to do what prior homeowners did and just buy a crib and just not invest what it should. You know what I\u2019m saying? And it\u2019s like, if this area\u2019s worth it like they say, I\u2019m going to set the tone or at least follow up with my next door neighbors and refurbish the house and add value into the community. And I think that\u2019s one thing I committed to doing that really, I guess, made me look genius, which wasn\u2019t.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, I don\u2019t know if I\u2019d say it wasn\u2019t. Part of the genius that expresses itself on a basketball court is when you see the right play to be made in that moment. It\u2019s very hard to translate that onto like Xs and Os, you can\u2019t write it down on a piece of paper and say, this is how you know when you\u2019re right you\u2019re right, it\u2019s a feeling. You\u2019ve played enough basketball, you see the opening, you know what you should do in that scenario. Investing works out the same way. A lot of times I think geniuses express through feeling. It\u2019s very difficult to describe how Eminem can write a rap that is different than someone else, or Beethoven can create a symphony that is different. With this project you recognize through a feeling, I need to rehab it, I need to remodel it the right way. Other people don\u2019t see the angle of how important this is, but you did.
Now, on the flip side, you mentioned timing and luck. You actually probably had some bad luck and some bad timing. You had some good timing buying the property and the vision. But then interest rates have been skyrocketing right after you bought this thing and you put it on the market as rates are going up, and more expensive properties are absolutely more susceptible to more\u2026 What\u2019s the word I\u2019m trying to say here? The higher a price is, the more sensitive it is to the interest rate. So an $11 million property is much different than a $400,000 property when rates go up. So how have you handled that, oh, I wasn\u2019t expecting this, right? You just got a double team thrown at you. They put a full court press as soon as you caught the ball. You\u2019re going to have to adapt, in a sense. How have you handled the struggles that have come from, this isn\u2019t the best market to be selling a luxury property now that I\u2019m ready to put it on the market?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Honestly, it\u2019s like what you heard at the conference. Sometimes when you\u2019re hitting a home run, you can\u2019t worry about the outfielders. You know what I mean? And one thing, know what you know. Not everybody\u2019s buying cribs. Not everybody\u2019s doing this and the other, but I\u2019m not pertaining to a certain type of market. You know what I mean? So the people that can afford an $11 million crib or afford this, that, and the other-<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Evan:
They haven\u2019t stopped shopping.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s a great point.<\/p>\n

Evan:
They haven\u2019t stopped living, they haven\u2019t stopped hopping on their jets, they haven\u2019t stopped hitting their yachts. You know what I mean? One of the conversations the dude had with me was like, damn, I low-key want a deeper water. So it\u2019s like, damn, baby, you want $20 million worth of stuff. You understand what I\u2019m saying? So I think the number one thing is, you\u2019re a shark, you\u2019re a lion, Rob, you\u2019re the same thing. When you swim with sharks and lions, you don\u2019t really worry about eating grass. You understand what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m so glad to hear you say that.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
Because the people listening to the podcast that are the most discouraged, they\u2019re buying the $220,000 property in the worst area where there\u2019s 100 more of them in the same space and they\u2019re having a hard time making that deal work or they\u2019re having a hard time finding the opportunity. You went out and you found a property that other people were not looking for, you remodeled it better than the other homes around it, knowing that would be a good return on your money. You did it in an asset class where, quite frankly, and this is the point I was going to make but you made it for me, a lot of people buying 11 million properties aren\u2019t getting loans in the first place. So they don\u2019t care what the interest rate is.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, they don\u2019t care, yeah. The lady\u2019s just like, I wish we had more space on the first flight. They\u2019re worried about that type of thing.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, they\u2019re going to go spend $2 million to knock walls down and add it to make it bigger. Money doesn\u2019t mean the same thing to them that it does to us. Right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. And that\u2019s humbly speaking. So I\u2019m not trying to say anything from that sense, but that\u2019s literally what the mindset of-<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s smart, that\u2019s what I\u2019m getting at. You zigged when everyone else zags and that\u2019s why you\u2019re seeing opportunity when other people are just getting discouraged and saying, our real estate\u2019s not working.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And, Dave, what do you think\u2026? And, Rob, you guys can tell, I have the same mindset for everything. I think it\u2019s almost like, was it the Battle of the Alamo? They burn the ships. You know what I mean? I\u2019m a burning ship type of dude. Obviously, not throw all my money in it or anything, but I\u2019m not going into anything with fear. Do you understand what I\u2019m saying? Granted, with my preparation and everything prior to that, but I put great mojo, great belief, and great energy into my team and a preparation into it that it\u2019s like, yo, when they come see this or whatever work that I have, when they come see this, they\u2019re going to understand. You know what I mean? I believe that the right people showing up are going to understand and they\u2019re going to want to purchase a property and love the property and see it far out amongst the times.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, totally. I don\u2019t know, I think a lot of people just aren\u2019t down with mistakes and failures and so when that mistake happens, they get to that point, it\u2019s a lot harder for people to grasp and they\u2019re like, I\u2019m going to be real stubborn about I, I\u2019m not going to learn from this. For me, I\u2019m just like, look, real estate is all a journey. I always say we don\u2019t become real estate experts by everything going right, we become real estate experts by everything going wrong. So I don\u2019t really go into stuff with fear either. But I\u2019m also down for whatever happens. I\u2019m like, I will become better, smarter, wealthier, from whatever happens from whatever deal I make.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And I hope we never lose that invincibility, for real. You know what I mean? Because that\u2019s a skill, that\u2019s a talent because, for whatever reason, whatever God gave me, I don\u2019t worry about the serious stuff and then I\u2019ll flip out over if somebody ate my last brownie. You know what I mean? Something stupid like that.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. Well, but it really is those little things, that\u2019s what makes us invincible, genuinely. I\u2019ve had so much stuff happen to me in my short term rental journey. A couple weeks ago someone said an intruder broke in. Cops came, there\u2019s a manhunt. It turned out that they just turned on the light switch and scared themselves. A couple weeks before that, I had four bears break into my cabin. And the intruder situation happened when my neighbors were at my house having dinner and they were just like, \u201cHow are you so calm? This is a big deal.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWell, it\u2019s probably not really what you think.\u201d And all those things that blow up are really never a big deal to me. I feel I\u2019ve got such thick skin because of all the little bruises that I\u2019ve encountered along the way. And now I\u2019m just like, literally, effectively, anything can happen to me and I\u2019m going to be okay because I know that there\u2019s always a solution. It just may not be convenient.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And you also need that poise because you comprehend, once you handle one solution, it\u2019s always going to be another problem. You know what I mean? So I\u2019ve been trying to just learn how to be a solution maker and keep my poise through there. And at the end of the day, with the solutions, it allows you to comprehend, you\u2019re staying focused on the big bigger picture.<\/p>\n

David:
One of the ways that I\u2019ve found to help overcome that fear of making a mistake, fear of losing something, is I stop looking at money the way I used to, like you\u2019ve mentioned a couple times of, Evan, I see money now as a store of energy. I put an eight hour work day in doing this thing. I was given money as a way of storing the energy that I put in on that workday. And I can take that energy and I can convert it into real estate where it will grow, stocks where it might grow. I could go spend it on Air Force 1s and I\u2019ve converted into shoes that don\u2019t store energy very well. I\u2019m like Neo in The Matrix where I\u2019m seeing the code as opposed to just seeing the wall that everybody else is looking at. And money comes and it goes, you\u2019re going to make mistakes.
If I use the same analogy of basketball, when you\u2019re learning to play, you\u2019re going to make turnovers, you\u2019re going to make mistakes, you\u2019re going to lose, you\u2019re going to get shots blocked. It\u2019s weird, I could tell you the stories learning to play basketball where I first learned the painful lesson that if you\u2019re not really fast and you\u2019re dribbling the ball on the open floor, people will come up behind you and steal it. I remember just thinking, I think it was probably around the time I went from eighth to ninth grade, damn, these varsity guys, they will jump in between and intercept the pass you through. You can\u2019t look right at the guy you\u2019re going to throw it to.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n

David:
If I get a rebound and I don\u2019t hold it really hard, someone\u2019s going to smack it out of my hands. This stuff sounds silly, but it was a paradigm shift at the time. I have to approach playing basketball differently and then I adjusted to it. But if I wouldn\u2019t have put myself in this situation to make those mistakes, I wouldn\u2019t have gotten better at what I did. And by trying to avoid money, if you never invest it, if you never jump into a new endeavor, you just don\u2019t get better, and you live in a state of fear your whole life. Even though I made the turnover, I learned a skill. Even though I threw a bad pass, I left my feet to pass, I missed a shot, I learned something about basketball, and that can\u2019t be taken away.
That\u2019s how I tend to see business endeavors in entrepreneurship. If you are looking at how you become better, the turnovers don\u2019t matter. That means you can\u2019t have an ego. You can\u2019t be looking at these scenarios and saying, \u201cWell, if I failed, that means I may failure.\u201d You have to look at it like it\u2019s a game. If I lost the game, I got better, I\u2019m more likely to win the next one, and I ascend into higher levels of competition with more rewards. And that\u2019s what I\u2019d like to pull out of what you\u2019re describing right here, is this humility you have is such a powerful force in your success because you\u2019re saying, \u201cI\u2019ll burn the ships and I\u2019ll figure it out as I go and they might kill my whole army, but, man, I will learn a lot about warfare and I\u2019ll build a better army and come back and I\u2019m going to win that time.\u201d Those skills never leave you. And that\u2019s the real value in what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Absolutely. And I\u2019m glad it translates, you know what I mean? And one thing my mentor always just told me, take full advantage in the NBA., Take full advantage of basketball, because it\u2019s going to teach you everything you need to know about running your own business one day. So a lot of times we correlate it sometimes. Number one things just coming back from what I learned on the court and learnt from the people around me, you just take it step by step.<\/p>\n

David:
There\u2019s so many times where people like you that have been very successful have had a foundation in something, for you that was basketball, applied it to a new endeavor, business, and your learning curve was much shorter than everybody else\u2019s. You hit that point of success quicker because you had this foundation to build on. And that\u2019s why I\u2019m always preaching the message that, quit looking at real estate as the escape from the life you don\u2019t like, you\u2019re bad with girls, you hate your job, your boss doesn\u2019t like you. If you can\u2019t be good where you\u2019re at, you\u2019re probably not going to be good when you get into the new thing. Instead, develop excellence in whatever job God happens to happen you in that moment and then apply that to the next opportunity that you get. And it\u2019s like this staircase approach. And that\u2019s what I love about what you\u2019re sharing is you didn\u2019t have an advantage over anybody listening to this or anyone else doing it.
It\u2019s not like you just had advisors fall from the sky and angels come up to you and say, \u201cI want to help bless you.\u201d You had a foundation that was helpful to you and you just built on it. And now you\u2019re talking about, how do I get bigger? I have a vision, I want to get into development. I want to have luxury condos with a 7-Eleven and a CVS at the ground floor. I want to pair stability, which is low risk, low reward, with luxury, which is high risk, high reward. And you see these angles because of the stuff you\u2019ve done before. And so that\u2019s one of my favorite parts about the story that you\u2019re sharing is it\u2019s encouraging that whatever team you\u2019re on, whatever sport you\u2019re playing, whatever thing you\u2019re doing, give it everything you have, show up and do your best every single day. And then look for the people to start passing you the ball rather than the guys that say, \u201cWell, when I get the ball then I\u2019ll try. When I\u2019m the man, then I\u2019ll give my effort.\u201d<\/p>\n

Evan:
No, and you\u2019re absolutely right and I\u2019m glad we hit that point because a lot of times, even with friends, and I\u2019m sure the same way, people think it\u2019s some type of pill you take. You know what I mean? Or some type of drink you have or you go to the store and grab medication, it\u2019s like, \u201cNah, dog. It started 10 years ago, back when you thought it was unsexy and cool.\u201d You know what I mean? Or, this hard work or whatever you\u2019re going to get isn\u2019t going to be cool. By the time you reap your benefits, you probably don\u2019t even care about them because you\u2019re already on something else. But you know what I mean?<\/p>\n

David:
It\u2019s a great point.<\/p>\n

Evan:
You\u2019re literally that locked in-<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s exactly how it works.<\/p>\n

Evan:
You\u2019re literally that locked in and passionate about it and then six years down line you\u2019re like, I did that six years ago. I was a real life animal and I hadn\u2019t\u2026 But before you know it, and luckily so, you pick your head up and it\u2019s a consistency of greatness or a certain level that you maintained that allows you to cross over like we all have in order to be successful. And I\u2019m just grateful to be-<\/p>\n

David:
Especially with real estate.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yes, yes.<\/p>\n

David:
Rob, wouldn\u2019t you agree that the best deals you\u2019ve got going right now, were probably the ones you bought the longest time ago.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh, of course. Yeah. We\u2019re all a genius because when you buy 10 years ago, you\u2019re a genius at any point in the cycle. so-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And everybody\u2019s like, \u201cHow\u2019d you do that? How\u2019d you do that?\u201d It\u2019s like, well, during this time I picked up weight, I went and did this. Literally you just invested and left. You know what I mean? In certain areas, it\u2019s not like you\u2019re standing there working it, working it, working it. But there\u2019s certain stuff where you invest it, leave, make sure it\u2019s getting ran and just stay and keep it set up on a certain form of consistency to be the go of the times.<\/p>\n

David:
Which is so funny because everyone\u2019s looking for the opposite. They\u2019re like, \u201cI hate my job, I want to just focus on my one property all the time.\u201d And that never works. It\u2019s literally the best properties I have are the ones I forget I own, if I\u2019m being honest. When I forget that that is my property, I\u2019m like, damn, look at this, it\u2019s been making all this money for all\u2026 The ones that are crossing my path all the time are the ones I didn\u2019t like. And there\u2019s definitely a trend with the more recently I bought it, the worse it performs. And that stops a lot of people because, what I say is they look at year one. They run an analysis, does it make me an 18% return right off the bat? It doesn\u2019t, bad deal. I\u2019m moving on to the next one.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, you might as well go hop on Robin Hood if you looking for that type of return. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

David:
Yep.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I often get people that are like, \u201cWell, of course you\u2019re doing well. You bought the property five years ago.\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, guess what? 10 years from now you\u2019re going to be saying the same thing when I look smart for having bought consistently.\u201d It\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And I always tell friends, just buy something. Not buy something, but eventually it\u2019s year four or five and we\u2019re still pump-faking on you buying your first property. It\u2019s like, \u201cDog, this is pointless. You could have had three or four by this time and we could have been having this conversation in a completely different atmosphere as opposed to my condo.\u201d<\/p>\n

David:
I\u2019m so glad you said that. That\u2019s exactly right. I look at it like, okay, in five years, how will this property perform? I almost don\u2019t even look at year one. I make sure I have enough money in case it goes poorly, I can float it. But I want to know how am I going to feel in five years to 10 years and all of a sudden the metrics of decisions you\u2019ve got to make become a lot more clear. That $32,000 Indiana property that you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s so tempting, man.\u201d No it\u2019s not, when you look at 10 years later and it\u2019s worth 33,000 and every day you\u2019ve had a new issue with it.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And those are usually people that go and tell everybody, y\u2019all, I own this property, I own this property. And it\u2019s like, bro, that\u2019s the worst property you could have ever chose.<\/p>\n

David:
Yes.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Literally.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah. It\u2019d be like buying a bunch of terrible cars that you dump all your money into all the time, but you\u2019re bragging because you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, I got 12 cars.\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cNo, you have 12 problems.\u201d You don\u2019t want that. Right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. No lie. That\u2019s real. That\u2019s real.<\/p>\n

David:
And that\u2019s why humility\u2019s so important because it\u2019s ego that leads people to say, \u201cMan, at the next conference I go to, I want to say I got X amount of doors, I got X amount of units, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
And, bro, that\u2019s one thing, I\u2019m a competitor and I compete at basketball at a high level, but I\u2019m good on a journey and minding my own business. You understand? I think one thing that occurs as you get older, even doing contract negotiations, the humility in that is making sure you don\u2019t miss out on your money or the right deal or situation worrying about what the person left the right has. You know what I mean? It\u2019s like a marriage, that relationship has nothing to do with anybody besides those two people. So when it comes to my real estate journey, it\u2019s like, hey, if I\u2019m going to do this 10 unit over here, I would love to come back to the next conference with 10 or 15 more units, but the interest rates aren\u2019t hidden on that property right way, or I might have to wait until this sells or that sells. It\u2019s like, that\u2019s my situation and God willing I\u2019m around for 100 more years to keep turning flips and keep making the next move my best move.<\/p>\n

Rob:
David, I\u2019ve got an analogy as we wrap up here to\u2026 I think I\u2019ve got two.<\/p>\n

David:
[inaudible 01:01:54] pocket have led to some inspirations.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yes, that\u2019s right. I would say that this podcast interview was a slam dunk.<\/p>\n

Evan:
That wasn\u2019t even supposed to be funny. It just shocked me. That shocked me.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh that\u2019s so bad. That\u2019s so bad that I laughed at it.<\/p>\n

Evan:
It was a triple double, I\u2019ll say.<\/p>\n

David:
You also reminded me of what it was like to host a Brandon Turner who knows absolutely nothing about every sport.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s me.<\/p>\n

David:
He would impressed me with how little he knew about any sport at all.<\/p>\n

Evan:
That beer was impressive though. And he\u2019s six, six. So I\u2019m surprised he never played any sport. But he\u2019s a surfer though.<\/p>\n

David:
Well, he got into surfing mostly because he\u2019s terrible at sports. And so\u2026<\/p>\n

Rob:
One of the first jobs I ever got out of college was I was a copywriter for Gatorade. So I would write all of their tweets and all of their Instagram posts and Facebook posts and then when they were interviewing me, they were like, \u201cYeah, so are you a sports guy?\u201d And I was like, \u201cMe? Yeah. Oh, yes. Love all of them.\u201d And then when I got hired, they were all like, \u201cYou\u2019re such a liar.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWell, you like me though, so it\u2019s all good.\u201d<\/p>\n

Evan:
Man, I feel you. But any job, when he asks, \u201cWhy are you here?\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cBro, I\u2019m trying to get paid. Don\u2019t ask me that question, why am I here? I can do it all, sir.\u201d<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s right. And I did all right. I did All right.<\/p>\n

David:
I love the Gatorade marketing campaign. Did you have anything to do with this one, Rob, where they would take the black and white athlete and they would make their sweat the color of the Gatorade? Do you guys remember that?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah. That was literally when I was born. That was like 1990, 1991. But I\u2019d love to take credit for that.<\/p>\n

David:
That was a cool thing they did.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Sure. Yeah. I made that up. That was my thing.<\/p>\n

Evan:
The coolest Gatorade commercial was Phil Jackson discussing Michael Jordan, when he is talking about the flu game.<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh yeah.<\/p>\n

Evan:
And he was saying, that\u2019s the first time I ever believed in Will. He was like, \u201cThat was the first time I ever seen Will really be a thing.\u201d You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

David:
We were talking about that the other day. Just how certain scenarios or environments will bring the best out of you. That\u2019s what happened. His environment, meaning how he felt, was so hard that he had to rely more on Will to have the flu game, which is NBA iconic performance. And I think that\u2019s so important of a lesson because there\u2019s people that come from incredibly difficult environments that have a lot of pain and they waste that pain. That pain is a fuel that will propel you way past the comfortable person who grew up in Orange County and went to an Ivy League school and has nothing to drive them, right?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, absolutely right. You don\u2019t know how many kids that come from my AAU program or come from my background or even certain teams I played on, and I\u2019ll be like, yo, he\u2019s as good as you, he\u2019s you were, and da, da, da, da. Then when it turns out he wasn\u2019t, it\u2019s like, bro, do you know what background or upbringing I came in where it is deeper than just if you put a ball through the hole, this is Darwinism, this is survival of the fittest. It\u2019s either we\u2019re eating today or we\u2019re not. So I\u2019m never-<\/p>\n

David:
Those are people that win.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah. And I\u2019m never losing, period, point blank.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s a beautiful approach because whether people won\u2019t admit or not, that\u2019s the real estate environment we\u2019re in right now. There are not enough of the best homes to go around. Interest rates were kept very low for a long time so people got into our game that never wanted it. But business people are now investing in real estate because they can get a better return here than they can in other things. The tax code benefits real estate more than other things. And so wealthy people\u2026 Everyone\u2019s fighting over these things and you were just over here, man, I can\u2019t find a deal, I don\u2019t understand. They don\u2019t understand, you\u2019re lions and you\u2019re all trying to find the few gazelle that are out there. And that\u2019s why you\u2019ve got to listen to a podcast like this and approach it with everything you have. Like you\u2019re saying, it\u2019s Darwinism and those that understand that are the ones that win and those that think that they\u2019re in a communistic, kumbaya, \u201cOh, no, everything\u2019s going to be fine,\u201d are very frustrated that things aren\u2019t working out.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Man, when (beep) get tough man, like this, my fault for cursing, but I snap into a slim gym. This is crunch time, fourth quarter, I like these type of situations. So I\u2019m sure you guys are the same way. So it is a hell of a time to be in right now.<\/p>\n

David:
So on that note, I\u2019ll ask you, Evan, before we get you out of here, where do you see the future of real estate or the economy going and what\u2019s your recommendation for the moves that people should be making in the next two years?<\/p>\n

Evan:
Well, the first one, I hope the interests rate drop sooner than later. I for sure want that to go on. And I think it\u2019s going to be something in a similar fitting, the same way of how the world is going as well. I feel like everything is a borderline of improv mixed in with casual. So I think we\u2019re going to see a lot of more developments, more properties and more innovative uses in the real estate market that is going to be cool. Similar to the 20 unit hotel you bought in New York and how you\u2019re changing that type of real estate market. I can\u2019t really put a thumb on it, but I think anything goes right now in regards to the real estate market, what you create and what comes about and I\u2019m looking forward to that.<\/p>\n

David:
Beautiful. So look for creative ways rather than just trying to push the same square peg through the round hole that isn\u2019t working.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Yeah, because you got to break it down. We had this argument earlier, I guess we\u2019re turning to the cooler, older unhip guys, you know what I mean? Or the weird older unhip guys and that\u2019s still pretty cool. So imagine what we\u2019re going to create, you know what I mean? It\u2019s not going to be the same, stick up your butt, suit and tie, weird type of stuff. I think it\u2019s going to be some cool, hip creative stuff where hopefully it turns into one big game of Sims. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n

David:
Well, if that art in your background is any indication, you will be one of the forefront leaders in that movement. So thanks for spending your time with us and your thoughts, Evan, I appreciate it. They\u2019re both very valuable.<\/p>\n

Evan:
I appreciate you guys for real. Thank you, again.<\/p>\n

David:
If people want to find out more about you, where can they go?<\/p>\n

Evan:
If you want to find out more about myself, please tune into a Point Forward podcast, everywhere where you listen to podcasts. It\u2019s actually amazing. It really is. And then you check me out on Instagram. My name is Evan Turner. E-V-A-N, T-U-R-N-E-R, and then also on Twitter, the kid ET, T-H-E, K-I-D, E-T. Show some love, holler at me, give me some advice, keep it classy.<\/p>\n

David:
Rob, how about you? Where can people find out more about you?<\/p>\n

Rob:
You can find me on\u2026 Well, okay, well first of all, look, typically, I would say you can go find me on YouTube at Rob Built and you can go follow me on Instagram at Rob Built. Of course, I could say that. But what I\u2019m going to say instead of following me over at Rob Built is to go over the Apple iTunes review center with the podcast app, leave us a five star review. If you like hearing these conversations, these real world conversations of how to get started in real estate, please go drop us a five star review. It means the world to us and it lets us know that you\u2019re listening and it helps us improve how we do the show. What about you David?<\/p>\n

David:
Well, now I\u2019m really wanting to know where I could find you and you\u2019ve left me with an itch I need to scratch. After I do that, is there a preferred way of following you? Where\u2019s your best content?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Oh yeah. You could find me over on YouTube at Nothing but Net. No, I\u2019m just kidding.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Like what?<\/p>\n

Rob:
Yeah, it\u2019s my sports channel, actually. You find me at-<\/p>\n

Evan:
Why not? Why not, right? Nothing but Net.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh my gosh, I forgot that was a phrase people used to say, Man, we were really corny in the \u201980s. That is such a nothing\u2026 Yeah, that was a thing that was said.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Swish.<\/p>\n

David:
Yeah, Swish<\/p>\n

Rob:
NBA, baby.<\/p>\n

David:
Every one of Rob\u2019s basketball references comes straight out of NBA Jam. He\u2019s the guy that\u2019s like, boom shaka laka every time he-<\/p>\n

Evan:
From down town, and defense.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I told you man, I\u2019m an \u201980s baby.<\/p>\n

David:
What we used to say when you blocked a shot, you got packed. Remember that?<\/p>\n

Evan:
You got packed.<\/p>\n

David:
I haven\u2019t heard that one in a very long time.<\/p>\n

Evan:
No. The best thing I think that still hangs on that hasn\u2019t been corny, and one of the best basketball commercials, was the Sprite, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant commercial. But anytime you miss the dunk, the label was like, you just got to Sprite it. You know what I mean? I thought that-<\/p>\n

David:
That was good. I used to love the Sprite commercial with the three actors pretending to be hard basketball players, but they were like thespians.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Wait, no, I got to look that up. I got to-<\/p>\n

Rob:
Excuse me. Excuse me. What\u2019s my motivation? That guy.<\/p>\n

Evan:
I got to check that.<\/p>\n

David:
Oh, that\u2019s a really funny one. Rob, we talk about it all the time because he\u2019s always asking for his motivation. He is a thespian. Pretending to be a podcast.<\/p>\n

Rob:
I did letter in theater.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Oh, did you?<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s how cool I am.<\/p>\n

Evan:
Well, what role broke your heart that you decided to leave?<\/p>\n

Rob:
And it was Snoopy in You\u2019re a Good Man, Charlie Brown.<\/p>\n

Evan:
That\u2019s funny.<\/p>\n

David:
All right, Evan, thanks a lot, man. It\u2019s been great having you. I don\u2019t know if we have plans from you to your podcast, but I\u2019d be happy to do it. I think it\u2019d be a lot of fun.<\/p>\n

Evan:
No, I\u2019d be lit. We would love to have you guys on. Thank you for the hospitality. This is lit. What you guys are doing, it\u2019s unbelievable. I\u2019m grateful for what you guys do week in and week out. And I once again, thank you for being so open when I showed up to the conference and everything. You guys are awesome guys. I really appreciate you. Thank you.<\/p>\n

David:
Thank you, Evan. You can find me on social media at David Greene 24, and I just tagged Evan, so if you\u2019re seeing this, go make sure you follow his account and get some good content.<\/p>\n

Evan:
I\u2019m going to repost, too. I hate when people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

Rob:
All right, hold on. Let\u2019s do this on air. I\u2019m going to get a photo of us. Ready? That\u2019s the first right there. That\u2019s the first. Interrupting a podcast for a selfie.<\/p>\n

David:
Yep.<\/p>\n

Rob:
That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n

David:
That\u2019s how narcissistic we\u2019ve become.<\/p>\n

Evan:
That\u2019s how progressive the work field is.<\/p>\n

David:
All right. Thanks, Evan. We\u2019re going to get you out of here. This is David Greene for Rob, slim gyms in his shirt pocket, Abasolo signing out.<\/p>\n

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House flips, opportunity zone investing, student housing\u2014name a real estate strategy, Evan Turner, former NBA player, has probably done it. Unlike most professional athletes, Evan left the league with more assets than at the peak of his career. He was buying real estate, building homes, and making moves while working a grueling six days a […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":4240,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"fifu_image_url":"https:\/\/www.biggerpockets.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/REP_686_WEB.jpg","fifu_image_alt":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4239","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4239","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/5"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4239"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4239\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4241,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4239\/revisions\/4241"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4240"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4239"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4239"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/imsfund.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4239"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}