\n<\/p>\n
Off-market real estate<\/strong> deals can give investors like you HUGE discounts<\/strong> on what would be expensive investment properties. Either due to the property condition or the state of the seller, these real estate deals sell for<\/strong> sometimes hundreds of thousands less <\/strong>than their on-market equivalents. But finding them can be a challenge<\/strong>. As a result, most new investors rely on real estate wholesalers to bring them a deal. But what if the price point <\/strong>still doesn\u2019t make sense?<\/strong><\/p>\n Welcome back to another Rookie Reply<\/strong>, where we\u2019re joined by real estate wholesaling master, Jamil Damji<\/strong><\/a>, and newly self-employed investor, Ethan Wilson<\/strong>. Jamil and Ethan both have a taste for off-market, underpriced deals<\/strong> and are here to share their wisdom with you. In this episode, you\u2019ll hear how to negotiate with a wholesaler<\/strong> who\u2019s firm on price, how to find off-market deals<\/strong><\/a> WITHOUT cold-calling sellers<\/strong>, and Jamil\u2019s killer deal-finding strategy that costs far less than the competition!<\/p>\n If you want Ashley and Tony to answer a real estate question, you can post in the Real Estate Rookie Facebook Group<\/a>! Or, call us at the Rookie Request Line (1-888-5-ROOKIE).<\/p>\n Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Tony: Ashley: Ethan: Tony: Ethan: Tony: Ethan: Tony: Ethan: Tony: Ethan: Ashley: Ethan: Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ethan: Ashley: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Tony: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ethan: Jamil: Ashley: Ethan: Ashley: Ethan: Ashley: Jamil: Ethan: Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Jamil: Ashley: Tony: Speaker 5: Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/i>sponsor page<\/a><\/i>!<\/i><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is Real Estate Rookie Episode 240.<\/p>\n
Look at the math here. We know that you\u2019ve got to speak to, at minimum, at minimum 200 homeowners before you\u2019ll get a contract. What I see is that if you talk to, say, 50 real estate agents a day, who are each prospecting themselves, imagine if you talk to 50 agents who are each talking to 50 homeowners to try to get listings, how many effective conversations am I having a day if I go that route? If 50 agents are each talking to 50 homeowners, that\u2019s me talking to 2,500 people. So the math doesn\u2019t lie.<\/p>\n
My name is Ashley Kehr and I\u2019m here with my co-host, Tony Robinson.<\/p>\n
Welcome to the Real Estate Rookie Podcast, where every week, twice a week, we bring you the inspiration, information and stories you need to hear to kickstart your investing journey. I want to start today\u2019s episode by shouting out with someone from the Rookie audience who goes by the username, Dudette Three, and Dudette Three left us an honest rating review on Apple Podcast, a five-star review that says, \u201cLove Ashley and Tony. I love their podcast so much. They provide valuable insight and good motivational stories. Both seem to have a very positive and upbeat outlook on life. I\u2019ve learned a lot and look forward to what is to come.\u201d
Then Dudette also dropped an Instagram handle. It\u2019s at Mitten Rentals, so M-I-T-T-E-N R-E-N-T-A-L-S. So make sure to give Mitten Rentals a follow as well for giving us some five-star love. So if you haven\u2019t yet and you\u2019re listening to this podcast, please leave us an honest rating and review. The more reviews we get, the more folks we can help. And I kind of got some beef, Ashley, because I\u2019m seeing some of these newer podcasts coming up, and right out the gate, they\u2019ve got double the reviews that we have. So I want to challenge our Rookie audience to help us out here. Don\u2019t leave us high and dry.<\/p>\n
Yeah. We would appreciate it, you guys. Tony diligently looks at the reviews constantly. I cannot, in case there\u2019s a bad one. So I rely on Tony to read all of the good ones when we are recording, and I appreciate every single one of them. So thank you guys so much. So Tony, today we have a unique episode again, just like the past several Rookie replies have been, where we were live at BPCON. But while we were at BPCON, the first day we decided to do an Instagram giveaway, where we announced it at BPCON on stage that we were doing this Instagram giveaway and we had to be tagged in their story. The very next day we picked a winner.
We gave, I think, Ethan, what, maybe an hour-and-a-half notice that he was going to be on the podcast and we\u2019re recording live and to come meet us. So we have Ethan Wilson on, who we just met at BPCON. We randomly picked his Instagram account. We messaged him and he was able to come. So we also have another guest on with us too, Jamil Damji. So we literally took everyone that we knew you guys would want to hear, and we dragged them into our podcast studio at BPCON. So we have two guests on for this episode, and they both provide tremendous value. I mean, Ethan, I think we hit the jackpot. We were shocked like, \u201cWait, this is your story, and we just randomly picked you? This is amazing.\u201d<\/p>\n
Yeah. It was so funny. I was in the back of one of the rooms, so it was actually the social media presentation of BPCON. Sarah was on stage, and our good friend Rob was moderating and Brit was up there, a few other folks. I was at the very back of the room, and this kid comes up to me and he shows me his phone, and it\u2019s an Instagram message from Ashley. He\u2019s like, \u201cHey, is this real?\u201d There\u2019s a lot of fake profiles floating around, so I wasn\u2019t sure. I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know. There\u2019s a lot of fakes out there.\u201d I messaged Ashley and I was like, \u201cHey, is this real?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cYeah.\u201d So it was funny how all of that came together. But Ethan was a great story. Then Jamil, if you guys don\u2019t know Jamil, Jamil is first just a fantastic human being.
This guy just radiates positivity and warmth. Not only that, but he\u2019s also an amazing real estate investor, and we definitely have to get him back on the podcast to give a masterclass to all the Rookies listeners around his strategy for finding off market deals. But anyway, before we go too far with Ethan and Jamil, we do want to take a question from the Rookie audience. So if you guys want to leave a question, get active in the Real Estate Rookie Facebook group, or you guys can go to the BiggerPockets forums. Today\u2019s question comes from Heidi Cawood. Heidi\u2019s question is, \u201cWhen buying from a wholesaler, is the asking price pretty much what you have to pay? Or is there room for negotiation?\u201d Luckily for you, Heidi, there is always room for negotiation. Like most transactions, like most buying and selling, you can always negotiate the price.
We\u2019ve purchased a few deals from wholesalers at this point, and pretty much every time we\u2019ve been able to negotiate a little bit off of the purchase price. Wholesalers are just like regular sellers. Sometimes they\u2019re going to price a little high in anticipation of the fact that people will probably negotiate and the price will come down a little bit. I guess I just do want to share a story. The last time that we purchased a property from a wholesaler, there was a significant amount of negotiation on the purchase price. I can\u2019t remember the exact numbers, but this is a property that we had under contract for, I don\u2019t know, $250,000. I had never seen the property in person, and I\u2019d just seen photos and videos. So we get the property under contract, and I\u2019d worked with this wholesaler before, so it wasn\u2019t the first time I worked with them. So I knew them. We already had a relationship.
We get the property under contract. Then Sarah, my wife and our crew, they go and walk the property without me. As soon as they get to the house, Sarah calls me, all upset. She was like, \u201cBabe, what are you doing? We\u2019re not buying this house.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d I was like, \u201cI know it\u2019s a little rough, but it\u2019s not terrible.\u201d She was like, \u201cThe whole roof has collapsed inside.\u201d So when you walked into the living room, the ceiling inside of the living room had literally collapsed. I went back and I looked at the photos and I was like, I would remember if the roof had collapsed on the photos. That wasn\u2019t the case. So I called the wholesaler, I let them know what happened, like, \u201cHey, my wife and my crew are there and the ceiling has collapsed.\u201d
He was like, \u201cAre you sure?\u201d I was like, \u201cYeah.\u201d I sent him the photos that my wife had sent me and I told him, I was like, \u201cHey, this is going to be the cost to get this repaired. We need this deducted from the purchase price.\u201d He was like, \u201cHey, I\u2019m sorry. We sell all of our properties as is.\u201d I think if I was a new investor, I probably would\u2019ve panicked a little bit. But given this wasn\u2019t my first rodeo, I knew what to look for. So I politely pointed out to him that pretty much every purchase and sale agreement, at least a good one has a clause that says the condition of the property cannot materially change from the time that it is placed under contract until you close. I asked a wholesaler, I said, \u201cDo you think that the roof collapsing would be considered a material change?\u201d
I was like, \u201cLook, we have two options here.\u201d I was like, \u201cYou guys can give me a discount on the price, or I can take you guys to small claims court. And it\u2019s up to you. But I would think that if I showed a judge, an arbitrator, whoever that this is what it looked like when I placed it under contract, this is what it looked like today, they would probably agree that a big gaping hole on the roof would constitute me being right and you being wrong.\u201d So a little bit of back and forth, and eventually they were able to negotiate the price down, and we all walked away from that transaction pretty happy. So that was my experience from negotiating on a good wholesale deal.<\/p>\n
What happened with this house? Did it turn out to be a great rehab?<\/p>\n
It actually did. Not before it got really, really terrible because immediately after we closed, we went back to start demo and we couldn\u2019t get in. We ended up finding out there was a squatter in the property after we had closed on it. So we had to kick the squatters out. It was definitely a challenging rehab for us. But the property\u2019s actually done now. We should have our permit here for the short-term rental in a couple of weeks, and then we can put all of this behind us.<\/p>\n
Good. Well, thanks for sharing that story with us, Tony. I think it gives a little bit of insight that even as an experienced investor that things don\u2019t always go smoothly, and there are a lot of challenges that we all face every single day. I\u2019ve actually never bought a property from a wholesaler, and I think it\u2019s mostly because there\u2019s not a \u2026 I\u2019m investing in rural areas, where there\u2019s not a huge supply of wholesalers going in and buying these markets where there\u2019s very few investors investing in.
But in the actual city of Buffalo, I\u2019m on quite a few buyers\u2019 lists for wholesalers, and it\u2019s always interesting to see. I was at this meetup once, where wholesaler came up to me and said, \u201cSomeone said I need to talk to you, that you buy in this area.\u201d It was not even half a mile from my childhood home growing up, and I knew exactly where the house was. So I\u2019m looking at the address and I\u2019m like, \u201cI know something about this house. What is it?\u201d And just by googling the address, it comes up meth house, meth bust, people arrested, all this thing. I was like, \u201cOh yeah, that\u2019s why.\u201d And I just want to say I grew up in a very nice home life. I did not live in a bad area growing up.<\/p>\n
No breaking bad.<\/p>\n
Literally in the middle of nowhere. My bus ride to school was an hour long. So this little house there had been a meth house, and it probably had been, but when this happened, it was probably eight years, 10 years before that. And the house has sat since then. Somebody has owned it. I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s changed hands or what. But with some place being a meth house, you want to have some kind of remediation. So I asked the wholesaler, \u201cHas there been any kind of remediation on the property?\u201d He had no idea that it was a meth house at all.
So he was like, \u201cDo you think you could send me that information you found?\u201d And this was literally just by me googling the address, all this stuff came up and it was just kind of a shock to me, like, \u201cOh my gosh, wholesalers don\u2019t even google the properties that they\u2019re trying to sell, just to see any kind of information that\u2019s out there that definitely could benefit them before even putting the property under contract.\u201d So I\u2019ve followed the property a little bit, and I\u2019m assuming they canceled the contract because I never saw that it changed hands at all from the current owner.<\/p>\n
Yeah. I mean, so would you have bought the house at the right price?<\/p>\n
Actually, yes, because I looked into the remediation of it, and it was just like mold. People are scared of mold. I used to be scared of mold. But now that I work with this great mold company, I\u2019ve bought a couple of houses now with mold. They come in and do the removal, and it costs money, but I know what to budget for it. So yeah, you just have to budget for it. But what he had it under contract for, he eventually told me what it was, after I said that I wasn\u2019t interested or whatever, and he wasn\u2019t even trying to make that much off the assignment fee. But yeah, he couldn\u2019t move because he didn\u2019t know when he went into it that it needed that remediation.<\/p>\n
Yeah. That just makes me think if can, when you\u2019re working with a wholesaler, if you can put off submitting your EMD until you have had a chance to walk the property, that\u2019s always ideal. That\u2019s an area that I shared with that wholesaler. They have a non-refundable EMD, and I want to say it wasn\u2019t a small EMD, it was 15 or $20,000 we put up as EMD, and it was non-refundable from the moment that we wired it in. So that\u2019s why I had to threaten them with litigation to either get my EMD back or for them to discount the price. But if you can, when you\u2019re dealing with a wholesaler, if you can walk the property first, get a sense of what might need to be done to it before you submit your EMD, you\u2019ll have a little bit more flexibility there as well.<\/p>\n
Yeah. I smirked when you said it was only 15, $20,000. The last property I put an EMD down, it was $2,000.<\/p>\n
Wait. Okay, let me share one story about, I think, the best return on EMD that I\u2019ve ever gotten. I don\u2019t even know if that\u2019s a phrase, return on EMD, but this is what it was. So everyone knows we have cabins in the Smoky Mountains, and we bought a bunch in 2020 and 2021. We haven\u2019t purchased anything in 2022 yet. But we got a new construction cabin under contract at the end of 2020. It was December of 2020, and it was a $2,500 refundable EMD, fully refundable EMD, $2,500. The cabin, I think we got it under contract at 780 is what we got it under contract for. It was supposed to be done in the spring of 2021, so six months after we put that EMD down. Well, supply chain issues, labor shortage, I don\u2019t know what, but it got pushed from spring of 2021 to fall of 2021, and then from fall of 2021 to winter or to spring of 2022, and from spring of 2022 to fall of 2022.
So we\u2019re actually just now closing on that cabin in about 30 days. But here\u2019s what\u2019s happened over that timeframe. The cabin is in a new development of short-term rentals. So I think altogether there\u2019s 22 cabins that were built in this one development. Well, out of 22, my cabin was number 21. So one through 10, 12, 15, my cabin has already been built, the same exact floor plan, and some of those cabins have already sold. And my cabin under contract at 780, the exact same cabin sold for 1.2. So we built, what is that, almost $400,000 in equity on a $2,500 refundable EMD. So it was crazy. That was the best EMD I\u2019ve ever put down in my life.<\/p>\n
I remember we had a guest on who was doing that in Austin, Texas with new builds.<\/p>\n
I can remember that.<\/p>\n
Yeah. As soon as was a new development, he\u2019d put a deposit down. It was like $1,000 to have it built. By the time it was actually built, they put in so much equity, and he was doing this every year and house hacking it for a year, then going on. As soon as he closed on that first one, he\u2019d go put a deposit on for one for the following year. Since these were the first houses in that development, by the time people were coming into phase two to buy them, they were paying more than he had paid for that phase one. Yeah, super interesting. Okay. Well, today let\u2019s get into our actual guests that we have onto the show. So you can meet Jamil, and you probably have heard him On the Market, the podcast. Tony and I like to joke that it\u2019s the second best podcast and we\u2019re number one, but it really is truly an amazing and informative podcast. So if you guys haven\u2019t subscribed yet, you really should.
Then also we have our winner on, Ethan, and I\u2019m not even going to say anything about him as to what he\u2019s been going on, except that he is very young and fresh out of college and is doing amazing things. So make sure you guys check out this episode. Ethan, welcome to the show. So we also have Jamil here with us from the On the Market podcast. So this is a super special episode that we are recording live here at BPCON. So Ethan actually won a giveaway that we did on Instagram. We decided to do this yesterday, and he was our chosen winner, the lucky one, and we are so honored to have him here with us. He just gave us a 30-second little spiel of what he has going on, and we are already amazed and can\u2019t wait to hear more. So Ethan, you can tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in real estate, please.<\/p>\n
Yeah, well, thanks first and foremost for having me. I\u2019m honored and grateful to be part of it. Yeah, so I\u2019m 23. I started my real estate journey just a year ago, a year and four or five days ago. Closing my first single family house down in Huntsville, Alabama. I was in college at the time. I was a busy guy running around. I was playing soccer, taking graduate classes, coaching and trying to make it through school and everything. The opportunity came up to get the house just in the neighborhood next to the college. So I got it. I rented out to my roommates who were my former teammates, and they paid my mortgage and a little extra. I fell into a good group of people. A big fan of Bigger podcast. I found Cody Davis and Christian always good on BiggerPockets, listened to their podcast, loved their story, loved what they were about. It really spoke to me, resonated. So I joined them, joined their mentorship and, like I said, got around a really good group of people. Learned a ton over the past couple months. On Friday we just closed on our first eight-plex-<\/p>\n
Congratulations.<\/p>\n
\u2026 down in Texas. Yeah. So, super excited about that. Three weeks ago I quit my job to do this full time, pursue my passion. Real estate\u2019s just what burns my fire. It just wasn\u2019t in \u2026 the jobs are dangerous, as they say. It\u2019s comfortable. It\u2019s easy to get stuck in the nine-to-five and just do real estate on the side as I planned. But I\u2019m young. I took on the risk and took the leap, and I\u2019m loving it, under contract for a six-unit outside of Knoxville, Tennessee and going from there.<\/p>\n
Dude, first, congratulations, man. At 23, I think I was working at Foot Locker, so you\u2019re doing some amazing things, brother.<\/p>\n
I appreciate it.<\/p>\n
So what\u2019s next? So you quit your job, you\u2019re going full time, you got a few small multis. What is the goal for you?<\/p>\n
Yeah. So one of my buddies, Eddie from Nashville, we\u2019ve been best friends. We\u2019ve always been hustlers together. We\u2019d work our internships and then immediately after going, start doing landscaping, hauling, moving, stuff like that and saving up our money. He started a business. I bought my first house. Next, he\u2019s going to leave his job soon. I left my job. We\u2019re going to go together in real estate and take it on together. He\u2019s more of a flipping guy. He flips couches and he wants to flip houses. He\u2019s going to be the capital-<\/p>\n
Very similar.<\/p>\n
Yeah, exactly. What\u2019s the difference between a couch and a house? But he\u2019ll be the capital provider for my long-term opportunities and in the meantime find private investors to come in with us.<\/p>\n
So being so fresh and so new at doing these first couple deals, what\u2019s your one piece of advice for a rookie listener right now?<\/p>\n
Jump in. Whatever you think that obstacle is, it\u2019s probably not as real as you think it is. My obstacle was just the lack of knowledge and just the fear of not doing it. I think a lot of people struggle with, and this is all over BiggerPockets, I know, but analysis paralysis. I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad years ago and started studying, studying, studying, analyzing deals, looking all this, what am I going to do? I finally pulled the trigger. If I had done it earlier, maybe I\u2019d be somewhere different, but live with no regrets. That\u2019s my advice, just jump in.<\/p>\n
Well, super cool. And thanks so much for coming on the show. Ethan is actually going to help us co-host today as we talk to Jamil. So Jamil, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Ethan, first, it\u2019s evident why you\u2019re the chosen one, bro. So congratulations again. Just phenomenal work.<\/p>\n
And you know what? It was random. We got super lucky. Great guests.<\/p>\n
Just super random? Wow. Wow. I mean, I would\u2019ve picked him. Really cool, really cool story.<\/p>\n
Yeah. So Jamil, tell us a little bit about yourself for anyone who doesn\u2019t know who you are.<\/p>\n
Well, thank you for having me, guys. I\u2019m Jamil Damji, the co-founder of Keyglee, in my opinion the best wholesale operation in the country. We are franchised in 130 markets. I started Keyglee in a coffee shop with my sister and two other business partners, Josiah Grimes and Hunter Runyon. It has been a phenomenal ride. We do on average in our corporate store, anywhere between 60 to 80 transactions a month. Then our franchises do hundreds of deals. Outside of that, I am a dad, a loving husband. I love my wife, she\u2019s the best. Also, I am the star of Triple Digit Flip with my best friend, Pace Morby on A&E. So that\u2019s super fun. On top of that, I am the leader of AstroFlipping which is, again in my opinion, the best wholesale community that exists on this planet.<\/p>\n
Jamil, so not to make you feel like outshined, but what were you doing at 23 years old?<\/p>\n
Man. I was working at Taco Bell. Yeah, I was working at Taco Bell. I still had ambitions to be a doctor, so I was living my parents\u2019 dream at the time. I come from an East Indian background and for us, it\u2019s you either be a doctor or don\u2019t come home, right? That\u2019s our life. So I tried to get into medical school and I failed at that. I actually, I did really well in the medical school entrance exam, had a near 4.0 GPA and I bombed the interview. So when I wasn\u2019t accepted into medical school, it was heartbreaking for me because I literally had done everything right. I was volunteering. I was all of the extracurriculars that you could possibly think of, I was doing.<\/p>\n
Then why do you think you bombed the interview?<\/p>\n
Well, I was young.<\/p>\n
Was it a subconscious thing where you-<\/p>\n
No. I was answering truthfully. And I think what ends up happening in those is people rehearse and they come in with a prepackaged, they tell the interviewer what they want to hear. I was very honest with what my ambitions were. I wanted to be a plastic surgeon because I wanted to make money. So I was honest with the panel. And I was told that I was a little immature and that I should try to reapply again after some time, but that was a great candidate. Now what\u2019s funny is that my cousin, who might be listening to this, sorry I\u2019ve been outing you as of late, but he cheated off me on the medical school entrance exam and he got in.<\/p>\n
Is he someone\u2019s doctor today?<\/p>\n
Yeah, he\u2019s prescribing people stuff. So when I think of that, it\u2019s like outside of the fact that I made the decision consciously to never let somebody be able to decide my destiny, and I think that was the moment because I had worked so hard and somebody else could decide. That\u2019s when I knew I had to be in a field where I was driving the boat, and that\u2019s what happened. I went from there into entrepreneurship. It was a bumpy ride. I got into a business at the time, this is now 2001, 2002, and we had started a media company, where we were convincing businesses that they should stop advertising in the Yellow Pages and move their business online, start advertising with a website.<\/p>\n
Wild idea at the time.<\/p>\n
Wild idea. So my job essentially consisted of cold calling businesses out of the Yellow Pages, and explaining to them how some of their funds that they\u2019ve been spending on advertising here could be used to go online so that people could find them, and that it was this revolutionary way that people were going to start doing business. We did really well. I did really well at my job. I was a phenomenal closer. I was selling these five-page websites for 600 bucks a pop. The problem was, is that my business partners hadn\u2019t really ran our costs right. So every time I sold a website for 600 bucks, we lost $100. So I did so well at my job that I put us out of business.
The beautiful thing though is that I was given proximity to my business partner, who was also in real estate. And him and his father were knocking down these old houses, and this is in Calgary, Alberta, and they would build new duplexes on these old lots, and they were having a problem finding more building lots. So thus my real estate journey begins because I basically interjected myself into a conversation they were having, and I came to find out that if I could just help them find some of these houses, I could make some money. So the next day I was walking my dog, called a For Rent by Owner and the rest is history. My first wholesale deal. I made $47,000 after I paid the lawyer their piece and never looked back.<\/p>\n
So I want to give you a chance to ask Jamil some questions too because this is a great opportunity for you. But before, so Jamil, our audience are mostly rookies, right? So if I\u2019m a rookie and I\u2019m terrified of talking to strangers in rejection, what are some tips you might have about cold calling and being effective with that?<\/p>\n
So here\u2019s the thing, right? They\u2019re strangers. So what\u2019s going to happen? I mean, let\u2019s just think about it. What is the worst that could possibly happen? Somebody is mean to you? I mean, okay, right? It\u2019s a person you don\u2019t even know that\u2019s being mean to you. So I think that just understanding the reality of what the fear is based off of. The fear isn\u2019t that someone is going to cuss you out or be not receptive to your call. I think the fear is really, \u201cWhat if it works? Now what?\u201d Because you don\u2019t know what to do next, right? So many people get stuck and then they think, \u201cWell, I\u2019m all alone in this.\u201d
That\u2019s why I\u2019m just such a big proponent of being a part of a community. There\u2019s so many communities out there. I mean BiggerPockets, for instance, is a massive community of helpful, wonderful people. You can get into the forums and you can talk to folks who are going through the same thing as you. You can squat up with people and really help spread the burden of that fear out. I think once you start to talk to people who have walked that walk, who have literally done the thing that you\u2019re trying to do and they\u2019re alive, nothing has happened to them. They may be richer for it, right? So once you start doing that, I think that the imaginary fear dissolves and then life opens up.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I love that. I want to back up first and say, I love what you said about the entrepreneurial mindset. I don\u2019t want to give my time to anybody else. I\u2019d rather work 80 hours for me a week instead of 40 hours for somebody else. So that was always the mindset getting into something like this. And that\u2019s a great question from you, the cold calling, because that was one of my biggest problems was picking up the phone and just calling somebody. I didn\u2019t know who they were, I didn\u2019t know what they did, I didn\u2019t even know if it\u2019s the right number, and I didn\u2019t know who was going to pick up. So I\u2019d call and be like, \u201cHey.\u201d At first it comes off super salesy. I don\u2019t even know what to say. But I think you hit it on the head with joining a group. I said this already before, but I was in a great group.
There\u2019s guys younger than me, they\u2019re 19 years old, Caleb and Chucky in the multifamily strategy group, they are just wheeling and dealing. And it\u2019s good to have those people who are ahead of you. Christian and Cody, who have shined the light on where I want to go. They helped me from day one all the way to get to where I am. But it\u2019s also good to have people in the group who are exactly where you are and moving along with you. Those guys are same guys who are making the cold calls. And you meet up every night and you\u2019re like, \u201cDude, I can\u2019t talk to any of these people.\u201d And they\u2019re getting deals and deals. But then you look in the group, and there\u2019s people who are still with you and to help you move through those challenges. It\u2019s definitely good to have those support groups. It goes a long way. There\u2019s a lot to be said for that.<\/p>\n
I agree. May I ask, Ethan, the first deal that you did, how did you get that deal? What was your lead generation strategy?<\/p>\n
Well, the first one was just the single family house on market.<\/p>\n
On market? Awesome.<\/p>\n
I offered the asking price. It was just me and one other bidder. It was right after the peak of COVID, so it had just started going down and I think a lot of people were afraid. So I lucked out. I was willing to take the risk and it paid off for me.<\/p>\n
Awesome. I want to clear a bit up about my strategies because it\u2019s always been a little bit different from the common conception of how wholesalers will go out and find deals. For the most part, you see a lot of wholesalers out there pulling lists of distress and skip tracing those lists and then calling homeowners direct. I am too lazy for that. I realized that there was a much smarter approach at doing this. I primarily \u2026 And the second piece to that is that you can\u2019t build relationships with those people. It\u2019s how do you scale that? How do you scale a business where I\u2019ve got to spend a dramatic amount of money to get one contract? I think the average cost per contract right now in the US going direct to seller is anywhere between 7 and $14,000. I mean, that\u2019s insane, right? That means you\u2019ve got to make at least 10 to 15K just to break even on time and energy.
So my approach has always been a relationship-based approach, where how can I do a certain amount of work but be able to come back to the well and keep drinking? So the approach that I\u2019ve taken is I work primarily with real estate agents and other wholesalers. Now there\u2019s a complete different cadence, technique, follow-up process that is required to do that. You have to be really good at underwriting, you have to be really good at communicating. You have to really be able to take down the guards of these agents who have come to the conversation. When they hear about wholesale, they\u2019re immediately, it\u2019s like their spine stands up because they\u2019ve heard all these horror stories of working with wholesalers. But the facts are is that we provide a significant value to the business place, especially for these houses that are in such terrible condition that they\u2019re not financeable.
And for oftentimes these retail real estate agents don\u2019t have the wherewithal to even handle a house like that. And typically they\u2019re of such low value that it\u2019s not even compelling for them to want to do the deal. So first and foremost, I think that everybody listening to this right now, if you have any ambitions to do wholesale, bet on yourself doing this for a while, right? Believe that you can create an incredible business from building relationships. I look at my wholesale business as one of the most incredible money-printing machines that you could ever have. We\u2019ll do a million, do a million dollars, a million-and-a-half dollars a month in assignment fees. I mean, how many properties do you have to own to have that, right? So this is the approach. And I think that we have to, as a community, understand that we don\u2019t have to go to sellers.
We don\u2019t have to go and try and get one over on grandma to get a deal. That\u2019s not what this is about. For me, I love working with agents who understand what I\u2019m looking for, who know that when you are buying a house that\u2019s in distress condition, that it has an as is cash value. And that cash value has to be compelling to somebody in order to come and make the investment. So this whole question of getting, taking equity, it doesn\u2019t even exist because this equity doesn\u2019t happen until I force it. I\u2019m forcing appreciation on all of these deals by adding value to the situation. So that\u2019s my approach. I\u2019m not a cold caller. I don\u2019t text people. I\u2019m not going to be the guy who\u2019s coming into your phone right now that says potential spam. That\u2019s not me. Everybody that I\u2019m talking to, the real estate agents and wholesalers, they want to hear from me.
Realtors spend thousands of dollars to just make their phone ring. When I call, I\u2019m an actual cash buyer that has the ability to close. I mean, that\u2019s compelling. That\u2019s something that I think that especially if you are getting started in this business, the fastest way. Last thing I want to say to that. Look at the math here. We know that you\u2019ve got to speak to, at minimum, at minimum 200 homeowners before you\u2019ll get a contract. So what I see is that if you talk to, say, 50 real estate agents a day, who are each prospecting themselves, imagine if you talk to 50 agents who are each talking to 50 homeowners to try to get listings, how many effective conversations am I having a day if I go that route? If 50 agents are each talking to 50 homeowners, that\u2019s me talking to 2,500 people. So the math doesn\u2019t lie.<\/p>\n
Real quick point, I just want to reiterate the importance of what you said about the relationships. I mean, it doesn\u2019t matter if you\u2019re in wholesale, flipping or multi-family commercial. The most important investment you can make, in my opinion, is relationships, especially early on. I mean, that\u2019s the biggest thing for me is the people I\u2019ve met, the people who I\u2019m going to meet, who are going to provide me with the opportunities and the knowledge that I need to reach my goals.<\/p>\n
23 years old, right? You do this for 20 years, man, you\u2019re going to be, I mean, you will be one of those people that people talk about. You\u2019ll be on stage at BiggerPockets. You\u2019ll be the guy that folks will be learning from, right? It\u2019s just so incredible to see young people coming in and being as willing to care about their futures as their parents want to care about their futures. Like you said, 23 years old, man, I was working at Taco Bell. I wanted to be a rapper. What was wrong with me?<\/p>\n
Can you rap?<\/p>\n
Can you do a little piece for us?<\/p>\n
No, no. [inaudible 00:34:49]. Yeah, yeah, I listened to too much Tupac.<\/p>\n
So I also wanted to be a rapper.<\/p>\n
Did you?<\/p>\n
Literally I have two mixes out on fooling around here.<\/p>\n
Get out of here. I got to find them.<\/p>\n
I mean, when you first started, what was your biggest focus? How did you go about cultivating those close relationships?<\/p>\n
So simply, I literally called between 30 and 50 real estate agents every single day. That was my goal. I could hit that sometimes in a few hours. Sometimes it would take me all day if I got a Chatty Cathy on the other line. But I would make it 30 to 50 calls every single day. And my business exploded. It exploded. I mean, it\u2019s not even close. If you compare our deal volume, our deal size, our longevity in the business and the fact that we franchise now into 130 markets, no one can touch us when it comes to our process and our capacity to get this business done.
So it was absolutely focused on real estate agents. It was minimum KPI. I would try to have my conversations last two minutes to five minutes at most, and that was just it. I was relentless. I never let a day go by. The only day I took off was Sunday, out of respect for people and their time with their families, and if they were going to worship that day, I didn\u2019t want to be bothering them. But beyond that, I was on it, consistent. I showed up every day, and now look at it.<\/p>\n
Yeah. I think that\u2019s super important. I think anybody can watch a YouTube video or have a little conversation and get motivated, but staying consistent, being disciplined and putting in that work to kick off those relationships, making those calls, that\u2019s a whole another story.<\/p>\n
Absolutely, brother.<\/p>\n
Well, Ethan and Jamil, thank you so much for joining us. I mean, that was really awesome. Yeah, the round of applause you hear in the background.<\/p>\n
Perfect timing.<\/p>\n
So Ethan, can you tell us where everyone can reach out to you and find out some more information about you?<\/p>\n
Yes, I am E 7 Wilson on everything. Instagram, E 7 Wilson, Snapchat, Facebook, Venmo if you want to bless me. But E 7 Wilson, that\u2019s my social media.<\/p>\n
And Jamil, what about you?<\/p>\n
You can find me on IG at J-D-A-M-J-I. Also on YouTube, it\u2019s just youtube.com\/jamildamji. But you can also find me on the \u2026 I\u2019ll just because you guys, the second best podcast on BiggerPockets, On the Market, where I have an awesome time with Dave Meyer and the rest of the crew there. It\u2019s just so fun to be a part of the BiggerPockets family.<\/p>\n
Love it. One more thing. I think I speak for you guys as well. Please do reach out to me. Reach out to these guys. I mean, everybody who\u2019s here is very willing to have a conversation in the DMs, on a phone call if you can find the phone number. I mean, if you\u2019re ahead, next to us or beneath us, I mean, everybody\u2019s in their own path and wants to help each other. So please do.<\/p>\n
Well, thank you guys so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. I\u2019m Ashley at Wealth from Rentals. He\u2019s Tony at Tony J. Robinson. And I will say it, we are the number two podcast compared to On the Market. But you\u2019re still right, the whole BiggerPockets host community really is amazing, and just to be able to be a part of this family is really awesome.<\/p>\n
Can I say one last-<\/p>\n
Yep.<\/p>\n
Hey, if any of you guys can find the mix tape, I will pay you $250. So go out there and find the mix tape and make some money.<\/p>\n
How much for a music video? Because I do have the link to that.<\/p>\n
Oh. 300.<\/p>\n
Deal. Well, I have to go make $300. So thank you guys so much for joining us and we\u2019ll see you next time.<\/p>\n
Later.<\/p>\n
(Singing)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n