\n<\/p>\n
Before buying a rental property<\/strong>, real estate investing<\/a> can seem scary. Only experienced landlords know how to deal with closing delays, overbudget rehabs, and tenant issues<\/strong>. But that doesn\u2019t mean you have to come in blind on your first real estate investment. If you have the proper knowledge, expectations, and systems set up, you can build a real estate portfolio faster <\/strong>than the rest, which is what Ashley Kehr<\/strong>, author of Real Estate Rookie: 90 Days To Your First Investment<\/em><\/a>, did.<\/p>\n Ashley hosts the Real Estate Rookie Podcast<\/em><\/strong><\/a>, where she interviews new investors who have had one or a few successful deals. She\u2019s seen what it takes for someone to go from bystander to investor<\/strong> and wants to make sure you can purchase your first investment property<\/strong> too. On today\u2019s show, Ashley walks through her pre-closing checklist<\/strong>, where she details everything from due diligence<\/strong> to budgeting renovations and rehabs<\/strong>, how to negotiate with sellers<\/strong>, where to find insurance<\/strong> and more.<\/p>\n This is just a brief glimpse at everything you can find in Ashley\u2019s new book, and combining these golden nuggets<\/strong> with what is shared in Real Estate Rookie<\/em> will get you on a faster path to landlord life and passive income<\/strong>. So, if you\u2019ve been waiting to invest or feeling like you don\u2019t know what you don\u2019t know, this may be the perfect episode to start. Tune in, grab the new book, and get ready to make some property purchases in 2023<\/strong>!<\/p>\n David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: Ashley: David: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/em>sponsor page<\/em><\/a>!<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast show 709.<\/p>\n
So what I did was took my experience, everything that I have learned since starting in real estate in 2013 is when I started and putting that all into a plan. So steps. So each chapter is basically a step as to it\u2019s organizing what you can do. You can find all this information somewhere else and what I\u2019ve tried to do is build it all together, take the important pieces and show you how to get your first year next property.<\/p>\n
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. Here today with a special episode. I\u2019ll be joined by fellow real estate investor and BiggerPockets Podcast host Ashley Kehr. Ashley is the co-host of the Real Estate Rookie Podcast, which she does with Tony Robinson where they help rookies to buy real estate. And today, Ashley\u2019s going to be talking about the new book she has coming out through BiggerPockets, Real Estate Rookie: 90 Days to Your First Investment. So if you are a real estate investor or aspiring real estate investor that wants some help on getting your next property and contract, this book might be a great move for you.
In today\u2019s show, Ash and I get into a lot of good stuff, including the steps from when you put a property and contract to the closing table and specifically what you should be looking for during due diligence, the rehab, the insurance provider, the closing table, and more. We give you some really good tips and you want to make sure you catch them all because a lot of these will save you some time and some money even if you\u2019re an experienced investor.
Before we get to Ashley, today\u2019s quick tip is see what is possible in 90 days as you overcome analysis paralysis and set a goal to start making progress on your first or your next deal. Just consider getting Ashley\u2019s book. Even if you\u2019re someone who already owns some real estate, this book can help you be better at doing it and the value you get compared to the price of a book is probably the best ROI you can get in the entire space. Designed to guide every rookie from goal setting to goal realization in record time, this step-by-step guide will skyrocket you from real estate rookie to real estate rockstar within three months. You can find the book biggerpockets.com\/podrookie. All right, let\u2019s get to Ashley.
Ashley Kehr, welcome back to the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. How are you today?<\/p>\n
Good. Thank you so much for having me back on. It\u2019s been about a year, I think.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Now before we get into why you\u2019re here, I do want to say I just got done recording a Seeing Greene episode, and I wanted to pull you in and give you a question Seeing Greene style. Here\u2019s my question and I\u2019m going to pretend like I am the BP listener and you get to be me here.
As a buyer, why does the closing date on a deal matter to me? I never understood the significance. Obviously, I\u2019d want to close on a property generally sooner rather than later, unless we\u2019re nearing the end of December and may as well start the next tax year more cleanly. But is there a strategy element here that I am missing that would help my deal look even more attractive to sellers?<\/p>\n
Well, I think the first thing is, is that it can change. It\u2019s variable and it depends on what the seller\u2019s motivation is. So here in Buffalo in the winter, it snows. Nobody wants to move in the winter. So sometimes even offering a delayed closing can be seen as an advantage if you are putting in an offer because sellers don\u2019t want to move and they\u2019re thankful. Like our house is sold, we\u2019re under contract, but we can stay here three more months until the weather is warm and then we\u2019re going to close on the property. Or these people could already have a house in mind, they want to get into their new property. So putting in a quick closing, and I see that a lot more common is that people want to close quickly, they want to be done with the property they\u2019re selling and they want to move on to the next thing in their life.
And when you go with a cash offer, you\u2019re most oftentimes able to close quicker than if you\u2019re doing conventional financing or even an FHA loan. You can close quicker if you\u2019re using hard money. So a lot of times the closing date will actually tie into how you\u2019re purchasing the property too.<\/p>\n
Yeah, this question came from Brit in Oregon and it was a little confusing because she says, \u201cObviously, I\u2019d rather close on a deal sooner rather than later, but most buyers are in the opposite camp. They want more time. You need time to get your loan together, time to get all the organizations of moving together. In general, buyers would like a longer escrow period because they have more time for due diligence, more time to prepare and sellers want to close sooner.\u201d So like you said, Ashley, in general, a shorter timeline is usually more advantageous for the seller, but you also made a good point that you shouldn\u2019t assume that. You got to ask, well, what do the sellers want? Because if they can sell quicker, they\u2019re less likely to have to make another mortgage payment or they\u2019ll get the money faster for the next thing they want.
But sometimes they don\u2019t want to sell quicker because they don\u2019t have anywhere to go. Or like you said, they don\u2019t want to be moving in the middle of winter. And that\u2019s the thing the agents can do, they can make deals work, is they can find out logistics of each party and then put the deal together in a way that works for both people.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I\u2019ve even done before that the closing date can be determined by the seller. That I\u2019m not putting into my offer that I want it to close in 30 days, especially on the commercial side when I\u2019m doing a letter of intent and it\u2019s a lot more flexible than sticking to a residential real estate contract that the seller can choose the closing date that there\u2019s no firm and hard time that I need to close by.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s smart because that takes a lot of anxiety off the sellers because you never know oftentimes what they\u2019re thinking. Good advice there.
So we haven\u2019t talked to you for about a year. I know you\u2019ve been hosting the Real Estate Rookie Podcast there with Tony and that\u2019s been going fantastic. I\u2019ve bumped into you two a couple of times, but tell me what else have you been up to in the last year of your life?<\/p>\n
Some of the big things are buying cabins on land and kind of updating these cabins and turning them more into a modern, glamorous experience. I just recently completed an A-frame property that turned out beautiful. That\u2019s kind of been my projects over the last year, doing four cabins and completely renovating them. Besides that, I\u2019ve been hosting BiggerPockets bootcamps on landlording and just being a rookie investor. Once I started doing that, I decided to write a book. My book is coming out January 10th and it is called Real Estate Rookie: 90 Days to Your First Investment.<\/p>\n
This sounds pretty juicy. What can we expect to be inside this book?<\/p>\n
Basically everything and anything you find in this book except for maybe my own personal experiences, you can find on the internet, you can find in other books, you can find on podcasts, you can find in newspapers, you can find talking to other investors. What I did was took my experience, everything that I have learned since starting in real estate in 2013 is when I started and putting that all into a plan. So steps. So each chapter is basically a step as to it\u2019s organizing what you can do. You can find all this information somewhere else and what I tried to do is build it all together, take the important pieces, and show you how to get your first year next property.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s kind of a blueprint, it sounds like. Just follow step one, step two, step three, and you\u2019ll end up with a property.<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
Very cool.<\/p>\n
And it\u2019s happened. Doing the bootcamp is we basically did the same thing in the bootcamps. I co-host it with Tyler Madden and we have had so many people come and tell us that they have got their first property or maybe they were stuck after their first or second property and then they went on and took the bootcamp and they were able to get another property under contract. I was just in Phoenix at a BiggerPockets meetup. Tony and I did a live podcast there and two people just at that meetup had attended the bootcamp and came up to me and told me one had gotten one deal already and the other one had gotten two deals.<\/p>\n
Okay. So this works, right? Let\u2019s dive deep into one part that new investors may not know about and this would be why a timeline\u2019s important. So you recommend this 90-day timeline, this comes up in the bootcamps, it comes up in your book. What is it about the 90-day timeline that you think helps new investors make progress?<\/p>\n
I think just setting a goal and setting a deadline for that goal. So if you want to get a short-term rental or you want a long-term rental or you want to purchase a property to flip, this gives you enough time to complete and go through all of the steps to actually get a property under contract. Depending on the state that you\u2019re in, like New York, you\u2019re most likely not going to close on a property because sometimes it takes 90 days just to close on the property even after you put it under contract. So depending where you live, by the time you actually close on the property, it may not be 90 days, but what we like to see is that you are making offers and you\u2019re getting something under contract within 90 days.<\/p>\n
Okay, cool. So let\u2019s dive deep into what\u2019s actually going to be happening in this process and let\u2019s start with when you actually get something in contract. So once the property\u2019s in contract, a lot of people think the job\u2019s done, \u201cYay! It\u2019s in contract, I bought it.\u201d No, you did it. This is a step and this is where the real work starts and one of the first things is the due diligence. So what do you recommend investors do when they start doing due diligence on the property that they just put in contract?<\/p>\n
Before we even get into that, I just want to highlight how important it is to actually get the deal and it\u2019s so exciting and can feel like such a relief, but what I found is that a lot of real estate contract is getting you to that point of finding the deal, how to source deals, analyzing deals, and then making offers. But a lot don\u2019t highlight into what you do after you get the property under contract before you close. So this is where I took a lot of time in the book to explain and I have an acquisitions checklist that I put into the book and then dive deeper into each thing. So a very important part is your due diligence.
We\u2019ve seen in the last couple years that a lot of people were waiving inspections on the property where they were just going in making offers and not really completing any due diligence, but there\u2019s a lot of due diligence that can be done as far as a physical inspection of the property. There\u2019s also due diligence that you can just do from behind a computer of finding out information and data. So some of those things are verifying property taxes, getting a quote on insurance, finding out what the premium would be on an insurance, what type of insurance you need on the property, and then you also have your title company doing the title work looking and seeing if there\u2019s any liens or judgements in the past ownership on the property. Then there\u2019s also going to the county clerk\u2019s office or the town hall talking to the code enforcement officer, especially depending on the type of property.
So with me looking into property with land in rural areas where you\u2019re running into having septics and wells on the property and it\u2019s not hooked up to public utilities. So there\u2019s actually some due diligence that goes into that is finding when was the last time the county inspected it? Does the county need to come out and do an inspection upon the sale? Do you need to replace it? How much is it going to cost?<\/p>\n
On the very first property I ever bought, nobody told me that the property taxes were higher than what they were estimated at. So it turned out it was an area, we call them Mello-Roos out here. I don\u2019t know if you guys have that, but it\u2019s extra taxes collected to pay for schools that have been created. Special assessments would probably be the technical term. And I thought the taxes would be $140 a month and they were like 450. It was over $300 a month on a house that I bought for 195,000. It wasn\u2019t like a super expensive real estate where taxes were that high and it crushed the numbers and I didn\u2019t even know that was a thing that could happen. I didn\u2019t know you could have some houses with higher taxes than others. Is that one of the things that you\u2019re talking about investors need to be aware of?<\/p>\n
Yeah, and also ar In New York state they have the STAR savings program. It is your primary residence, you can get a tax credit on the property. If you are a farmer or you lease your land to a farmer for agricultural purposes, you can get a discount on your property taxes. The same too if you are a veteran. So if you go and pull the property taxes, you need to know who is actually living in the property now and how is the property held because you could be looking at that low property tax and not realize that that STAR savings amount that is taken off is actually because they live in the property and you\u2019re going to use an investment property and then it\u2019s going to increase.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s exactly right. When I first started selling houses, one of the things I would do for my clients is I would pull the property up in the county tax assessor\u2019s website. So you\u2019d look for the assessor\u2019s parcel number. That\u2019s what APN means, if you\u2019ve ever heard the phrase APN, or you could just put the address in and you could find the property and this is actually public information. You could see what your neighbors are paying for taxes, you can see what anybody\u2019s paying. And it would show, okay, here\u2019s what the actual amount that the county\u2019s going to collect is going to be or the state. And then here\u2019s all your special assessments, you\u2019re going to get this, you\u2019re going to get this, you\u2019re going to get this and you see what the taxes are for the individual property and I\u2019m assuming that\u2019s where the STAR assessment would show up or the rebate in the case of it\u2019s a primary residence homeowner.<\/p>\n
Yeah, so that\u2019s a great point of where you can actually go to find the property taxes. You can go to the county GIS mapping website. So just Google GIS mapping in your county, and it\u2019s a free website that shows a map and then the parcels and you can actually just click on the parcels or search it. You can go to your town website and a lot of times they\u2019ll have them on there. There are some rural towns that I invest in that don\u2019t even have them on websites yet and you have to physically go to the assessor\u2019s office to pull them. Then there\u2019s other paid sites like PropStream too, which is $99 a month where you\u2019re able to get the property taxes on there.
Just make sure that you\u2019re verifying the property taxes, especially if you\u2019re buying on the MLS or even if the seller is just telling you what the property taxes are, make sure you go and actually verify that data and that you\u2019re getting up-to-date data on it too. So if the property taxes are from over a year ago, make sure you\u2019re pulling the new ones too.<\/p>\n
Yeah, and many areas have taxes reassessed upon the sale. So in a handful of places I\u2019ve seen, the tax assessor every 10 years or something comes in and says, \u201cHere\u2019s the value of the property.\u201d They reset all the taxes based on that. But in most areas, when the property changes hands, they reassess it. So the purchase price right there. So another thing that happened on that first house is it had been sold in 2006 as new construction for 595,000. I bought it for 195. So even though I ended up paying more taxes than I expected based on the 195, they collected a buttload of taxes from me at closing through the escrow process because they assessed it at 5 95 still. Then when it was sold, the tax assessor came in and he said, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s worth 195.\u201d It\u2019s one third of the taxes. This guy\u2019s going to pay than what the other people did.
But they had already collected more than that from me at the escrow, so they were supposed to refund it to me. It doesn\u2019t happen commonly, but what they did was they sent it to the property instead of to me and my tenant actually forged the check, cashed it, and then paid me rent with my own money for three months in a row with that tax rebate. So no, when you\u2019re buying the property, when you\u2019re looking at what the taxes currently are, they are a percentage of the purchase price. You\u2019re probably, in most cases, paying more for the house than what the seller paid when they bought it. So your taxes are going to be higher. You can\u2019t look at the exact number and say that\u2019s my taxes. You have to look at the percentage of the purchase price. Is that similar to how you\u2019re teaching the rookies when you\u2019re having them do this part?<\/p>\n
Yeah, and I think another important piece to add on to the property taxes of pulling the information is your utilities too is verifying what they\u2019re saying the water and sewer charge is, especially if you are going to be paying part of those as the landlord. And also finding out what kind of utilities are using. So around in here where I live and the areas I invest for the heat, it could be propane, it could be natural, gas or it could be electric, or I actually just bought a house that it was just three wood burning stoves in the property. So there\u2019s very different ways of heating the house and different utilities, also different utility companies. So during that due diligence process, so not only verifying the property taxes but also verifying what types of utilities are on the property and then also the amounts for them too.
So if a property is not well insulated and heat is pumping out of the house and the gas bill is extremely high, even if you are not paying the gas bill, when you get a tenant into that property, they\u2019re most likely going to ask you, \u201cDo you know what the average utilities are for the property?\u201d You can get this information by calling the utility company and asking for an average. They can\u2019t give you exactly what somebody\u2019s bill is, but they can give you an average over six months or a year. Make sure you take the full year, especially you live in an area with different seasons. Because if you\u2019re calling in the fall and you get the last six months, it\u2019s going to be summer. So you want the full year to see what that average bill is. But that\u2019s definitely going to impact tenants coming into the house. You may be able to trick someone and lock them into a year lease, but if they have that super high utility bill because the property isn\u2019t insulated well, then they\u2019re most likely going to move out after that year to someplace more affordable.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a very good point. Now, what about after you\u2019ve done some of that work and now you got to figure out is there a rehab happening. Does every house have a rehab? Do some properties have rehabs? How do you advise people in the book to go about doing your due diligence on the rehab portion of the deal?<\/p>\n
Yeah, so the easiest part is, is that you can take your contractor through before you even offer on the property, but sometimes that is just not feasible. So that\u2019s when during your due diligence period, before you close on the property is setting up everything so that the day you close, you\u2019re ready to take action onto the property. So that could be if you have permission, and I always put this into my contracts. Even if I\u2019m not getting bank financing, I do put a contingency in there that I can have access for a contractor and or appraisal. So that way if I end up going financing or hard money or something changes, I still have that opportunity to bring somebody into the property. So for an appraiser or for a contractor. And this usually is not a problem because most of the properties I\u2019m buying are already vacant.
If there are tenants in place, it may be more difficult to get the sellers to agree to this or if maybe they live there as their primary. But it\u2019s always worth asking and always worth a try so that you can take a contractor through to get a more thorough estimate than what you budgeted for. So when you\u2019re doing your inspection or even your showing before you offer on it is take as many pictures as you can and then take a video of the whole house so that way you can go back through and you can really build your budget like okay, there\u2019s 13 windows in the property, they\u2019re all going to need to be replaced. This is what a window costs and how much the labor is to put into it. And you can go through room by room and really build out your estimate and build out that scope of work which you can then give to contractors.
So even if you can\u2019t get them into the property, you can send them the videos, the footage, the scope of work and they can kind of give you at least a ballpark idea. And then right when you close, you\u2019re going to be able to get them right into the property and hopefully have them lined up.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s such good advice. It\u2019s very common I\u2019ll hear people get discouraged, \u201cMy contractor can\u2019t walk the house during the seven days of due diligence that I have. I have to back out of it.\u201d And I just think that\u2019s crazy because most of the time they can\u2019t give you a super detailed thing. But in Long-Distance Real Estate Investing, when I wrote that book, I talked about how I do this when I\u2019m not even in the area. And I\u2019ve done it recently. I bought a house in Blue Ridge, Georgia or a cabin that you mentioned. You\u2019re buying those two.
And when we were there, I actually taught my agent how to do this when I\u2019m not here. I\u2019m not going to be there on all of these, so get your phone out, take a video, walk through the garage, go slow at these parts and say, \u201cHere\u2019s what he\u2019s wondering. Can we put a bedroom here, a bedroom here? Where would we put the bathroom? We want to knock down this wall.\u201d And he takes a video of the whole thing in case the contractor\u2019s trying to figure out, could there be a load bearing issue in that situation? Then we walked up the stairs of the garage to where basically they had a living quarter set up and we showed this is what the finishings look like here, we want you to match it downstairs.
He gave me a super tight budget of what it would cost to do that just based off the video. Then I closed and then they went in and said, \u201cOh okay, here\u2019s a few adjustments we have to make now that we\u2019ve seen the property.\u201d But I didn\u2019t need them to walk the whole thing. And it\u2019s much, much simpler than I think we think. And it doesn\u2019t even occur to a lot of people to take a video and then send it to the people when they\u2019re not there. Is that similar to the method that you have in place when you\u2019re buying?<\/p>\n
Yeah, definitely. And a common question, and you had said sometimes you can\u2019t get your contractor out there, and I\u2019m seeing this a lot with the rookies recently that they can\u2019t get contractors to come out to the property, especially if they haven\u2019t even closed on the property yet, or maybe they\u2019re not even under contract yet, but they\u2019re new investors, they just want to take every precaution as possible. So one thing that you can do is you can offer to pay a contractor to come through it. So if you are not sure if you\u2019re going to use them or not and you\u2019re having a hard time, you can get that. But also what I\u2019ve been doing is I\u2019ve been building my own scope of work.
So if you have some knowledge or you have somebody that has knowledge, maybe they\u2019re not a contractor or can\u2019t actually do the work for you, but they could walk the property for you and build out, here\u2019s the things that you need to do, build that scope of work and then send it to the contractor. So you\u2019re not asking a contractor for a detailed estimate on what they\u2019ll do. You\u2019re going to send them that scope of work and hand have them fill in the line items. Then if you are sending this to three different contractors, you have very comparable estimates then because you actually built it out. And then also you\u2019re going to get feedback I\u2019m sure, and they\u2019re going to give you something you miss, things like that. But that will also show you who\u2019s actually a great contractor that\u2019s looking out for you too, that they\u2019ll give their input.<\/p>\n
What are your thoughts on having your contractor and your home inspector go on the same day when you can line that up?<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ve never thought about that actually. I\u2019ve never done that. I mean, I don\u2019t see a disadvantage to it.<\/p>\n
What would hopefully happen is the home inspector sees stuff and he\u2019s like, \u201cHey, that needs to be fixed.\u201d But the contractor might not have known that this outlet\u2019s not working or hey\u2026 Oftentimes, you\u2019ll find outlets are wired the wrong way or the actual electrical panel isn\u2019t set up correctly or the plumbing is funky. They\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s weird. Why is it running through here instead of there?\u201d Where they can have the contractor include that in the scope of work if something needs to be done. And conversely, the contractor can say, \u201cThis looks weird.\u201d And he can maybe have the home inspector look into if the studs were placed in the right area or if it was wired incorrectly.
That was one of the tips that I learned when I was investing heavily in Jacksonville, Florida and buying a lot of houses at one time, is if I could get both of them at the same time to do their walkthrough, it was less coordinating for my agent to try to figure out how to get the sellers to agree to this and then they kind of played off each other and it just gave me more information to review through the due diligence period.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s a great point because then you only have to get access to the property one time by having them come at once. And then if for some reason somebody can\u2019t do that, you can send the inspection report to your contractor.<\/p>\n
Yes, that\u2019s definitely\u2026 We would always do that too. We\u2019d say, \u201cHey, look at this, tell me the things that you think you could do cheapest.\u201d Because if they\u2019re going to be like it\u2019s $9,000 to fix a little problem, I\u2019m probably not going to have them do it. But sometimes they\u2019re opening up the wall or they\u2019re moving stuff around anyways, they\u2019re like, \u201cOh yeah, while we\u2019re there, we\u2019ll just fix that.\u201d And you don\u2019t even have to pay anything versus if you had to call a plumber out specifically for that problem, they might charge five grand because they got to cut into your sheet rock and move things. But if you\u2019re demoing the bathroom anyways, you can fix the stuff that shows up in the report.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s great too if you are planning on asking the seller to reduce the price or to cover the cost of some of the things that come up in the inspection too. So with having your contractor right there, you\u2019re able to get estimates pretty quickly to be able to renegotiate too with the seller.<\/p>\n
Much better than trying to get your contractor to go the same property three times to get an estimate for a new thing when you\u2019re in the middle of negotiating, which is a great segue to the next part of the process with after you put something in contract, it\u2019s negotiating. What is your advice for how you negotiate to get into contract and then what\u2019s your advice for once you\u2019re in contract, what you can do to save some money there too?<\/p>\n
Yeah, the thing that I like best, so there\u2019s really two different scenarios, you\u2019re off market or you\u2019re on market, I think it is so much easier to negotiate for an off market deal because you can be direct to the seller and there\u2019s no middle person there. So in that scenario, I\u2019m usually doing a letter of intent where I\u2019m stating the basic terms of the contract, the purchase price, the property, the seller\u2019s information, my information, and the terms of the agreement and any contingencies, I like to send it to them and meet them within 24 hours. So I set a meeting with them, I\u2019ll send it the night before, and then I go and I sit down with them. And I have a copy for myself and I have a pen ready to scribble things out and to initial things to make changes. So I like to get face-to-face for the negotiation and just ask them, \u201cWhat are the things that you\u2019re hesitant about? What didn\u2019t you like?\u201d And you\u2019ll find out so much information.
I\u2019ve had a seller tell me that he didn\u2019t want to do it and he was kind of like offstandish and he said, \u201cYou know, I just need $2,500 a month, that\u2019s what I need.\u201d So what did I do? I worked backwards. I did 25-year seller financing, amortization at 3.5%, and that hit his $2,500 that he needed. And that worked out great for me and it worked out for him, but I never would\u2019ve known that without just having a conversation and listening. So I think there\u2019s so many different reasons people are selling or things that are important to them. So if you can get face-to-face with them, I think it\u2019s a lot easier to read them when you\u2019re talking about something that\u2019s in the letter of intent, what\u2019s important to them and what isn\u2019t important to them.
And then it also gives you kind of the option to put out\u2026 So I always do this during the showing. I always ask if they\u2019re interested in doing seller financing. If the answer is dead flat no right away, then that\u2019s when I go and say, \u201cOh, I didn\u2019t know if you had told your accountant, your CPA you were selling and they had recommended the tax benefits of that. That right there just kind of perks them up a little bit. And then it\u2019s like, you know, there\u2019s always some kind of little thing.\u201d Well, I don\u2019t know, I guess I could talk to them and stuff.\u201d And, \u201cOh yeah, you should.\u201d It\u2019s many tax benefits.<\/p>\n
Can you share that briefly? What are some of the benefits that people can tell a seller about with why they might want to use seller financing?<\/p>\n
The first thing is that the taxable income is spread out over the life of the loan agreement that they\u2019re paying. So they\u2019re not going to get hit heavy on taxes of getting a lump sum of money upfront. That\u2019s usually the biggest thing for people. But also if they\u2019re older, their seniors is having that fixed steady income coming in too. I\u2019ve seen a lot of older sellers like that instead of\u2026 Especially in campgrounds, I\u2019ve been going after campgrounds and they\u2019re so used to having this monthly income coming in and to them to get this lump sum and now they want to stay within that monthly income that they\u2019re used to getting and that can be seen with long-term rentals. But the biggest tax advantage is that they\u2019re not getting hit as hard with taxes in that first year and it\u2019s spread out.<\/p>\n
Yeah, they\u2019re not filling the gain all at one time.<\/p>\n
Yeah, and I think a lot of sellers too that are trying to build generational wealth. They see the value too of when I die, these payments are just passed on to my kids, my grandkids, so on so forth.<\/p>\n
Very good point. All right. Now what if someone\u2019s using a real estate agent to buy the house? What advice do you have for them with how they can negotiate through their agent?<\/p>\n
I think it depends on how much you trust or value your agent\u2019s opinion and how much your agent is going to be working for you. I\u2019ve been in a situation where my own agent that I was using made me feel embarrassed about the things that I was asking for. So I think that it\u2019s very easy for things to get muddled. They\u2019re going from the buyer to their agent, to the seller\u2019s agent to them. And then if you actually get it under contract, in New York state, we have to use attorneys, then you throw the attorneys in the middle of that too and then it\u2019s almost like six people that it\u2019s actually going through.
So I think it\u2019s a lot more difficult to have that conversation and that\u2019s why I always put everything on paper. I write it out how I want it to be. So if I am asking for seller financing in the offer, I am going to write out that amortization schedule. I am going to say, \u201cThis month, I want to purchase it for this much.\u201d But over the course of five years, you\u2019re going to be making X amount in interest. And I lay it out. I don\u2019t rely on either agent to explain that as even a benefit of it and showing that they\u2019re actually going to be making more money by accepting the seller financing.<\/p>\n
Yeah. You got me thinking about why it becomes so complicated when agents are involved because you\u2019re exactly right. It\u2019s a good point. And I realized there are certain things that become \u201cindustry standard\u201d when you\u2019re dealing with agents and some of those vary by region. For instance, in Northern California it\u2019s common for the seller to pay the property transfer tax but the buyer to pay the title and escrow fees. But in some parts of Northern California, you split title and escrow fees evenly. It\u2019s different when you\u2019re in the Bay Area or the Central Valley or the South Bay. What happens is there is no right or wrong way to do it, but the listing agent who\u2019s going to propose the information to their seller is going to color it like they\u2019re asking for something that\u2019s not normal, they\u2019re being greedy. They want you to pay for this. Well customarily, they\u2019re supposed to pay for that.
So now the seller who doesn\u2019t know anything about real estate goes, \u201cOh, they\u2019re ripping me off.\u201d And now they put their foot down like, \u201cNo, we\u2019re not going to do it.\u201d The agent\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, that\u2019s right, I\u2019m going to save you money.\u201d And then they go to the buyer\u2019s agent and they say they\u2019re not going to do it. The buyer agent goes to you and you\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, go negotiate it again. That\u2019s ridiculous. They should make them change their mind. That\u2019s your job, right?\u201d Now, the buyer\u2019s agent is like, \u201cUgh, if I push too hard, they\u2019re going to back out. If I don\u2019t push hard enough, my client\u2019s going to be mad.\u201d And then you, the buyer has no idea what conversations are being had between the listing agent and the seller. And then when you throw in the uncle that wants to help and the dad that wants to protect their kid and the lawyers that are involved and everyone has their own set of values that they think should be operated by, it becomes very hard to do any negotiating at all.
Then, when you\u2019re going directly to the seller, there\u2019s not all of this presupposed way of doing things that you\u2019re trying to fight through. It\u2019s, \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m offering you. Does that benefit you?\u201d \u201cKind of, but this would benefit me more.\u201d \u201cOkay, let me see if I can structure that in a way that benefits me.\u201d And it\u2019s much cleaner. You don\u2019t have all of the traditions that sort of get associated with how to offend someone.
I was thinking in certain Asian cultures, it\u2019s very traditional to bring a small gift when you\u2019re meeting a new person and I wouldn\u2019t show up bringing a small gift. I\u2019d never think about that. We don\u2019t do that where I\u2019m from. And so you could offend people very easily and that happens in real estate sales constantly. And then you throw in different brokers that have different ways of doing things and different MLSs have different things and different title and escrow companies set things up differently. There\u2019s so many ways to upset people. And each side is only hearing how the other side didn\u2019t agree, and then both sides get really angry. It\u2019s like game of telephone where things can get messy. So is that one of the ways that you like going just directly to seller because you can avoid all that?<\/p>\n
Yeah, but I do have to say there has been times when having an agent has definitely been an advantage because maybe they are friends with the other agent or they know them well. And even times as it may seem unethical, there are times where agents do drop a hint or give a fact about the sellers that maybe other people putting in offers don\u2019t know or things like that. Or even if you\u2019re both wanting different prices and whatever, the agents are representing the buyer or seller, the different representation, they both want to sell the property. They both have the end goal of closing on that property to get their commission. So sometimes it gets to a certain point where the agents are more working together just to get the deal done. And that can be a huge advantage because you have the buyer and the seller\u2019s agent both doing whatever they can do to make this deal happen.
So I\u2019ve seen that, especially if something like a negotiation has dragged on and on and on or things come up. I had a property that I had under contract and I was doing financing on it, I was getting an appraisal done. The appraiser would not come out to the property unless the driveway was plowed. Seller absolutely refused to plow the driveway. So the real estate agents offered to split the cost of having the snow plow driver come in because they both wanted to move the deal and get it done. The plow driver actually got stuck in the driveway. It was another $400 to get him towed out of the driveway and it turned into this big awful thing. But just like right there, if it was just me negotiating with the seller, I am so stubborn sometimes that I wouldn\u2019t have forked over the money to pay the plow driver, eventually maybe, but I think that was like, that\u2019s definitely an advantage of having agents is when they decide to actually work together for what\u2019s best for the buyer and seller to get the deal done.<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve seen things like that happen that make no objective sense. So let\u2019s say the seller doesn\u2019t want to pay 500 bucks to get the driveway plowed, but it took them 90 days to get in contract. They\u2019re going to wait another 90 days to find another buyer. They\u2019re going to spend $7,000 in mortgage payments or more to go that period of time rather than spend $500 to plow their own driveway so that an appraiser can come into the property. But they get in that just stubborn, I\u2019m not budging, and the buyers can do it too. That\u2019s exactly right. A lot of what you\u2019re doing as an agent, as odd as this is to say, is you\u2019re negotiating against the other side, but you\u2019re often negotiating with your own client. You\u2019re trying to get them to see the ridiculousness of their emotional decisions.
Like we were the seller, the buyer was willing to spend 1.2. That\u2019s where I negotiated the price to. It appraised at a million, the buyer\u2019s still going to buy it and the buyer just wants the seller to fix some wood rot, a $2,000 thing and they\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m not giving them anything.\u201d And you\u2019re like, \u201cYou do realize they\u2019re spending $200,000 more than it\u2019s worth and there\u2019s a very good chance the next appraiser doesn\u2019t give you that. And you might win this battle and then sell your house for the million it appraised for. You want to risk 200,000 over two grand.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, okay. I didn\u2019t think about it.\u201d Because people don\u2019t think about it. They\u2019re very emotional and good agents absolutely can bring some light into the craziness.
I think someone who\u2019s experienced buying real estate often becomes experienced with humans. People think learning real estate investing is getting the numbers down. Man, that\u2019s like the basics. It\u2019s like the super fundamentals. That\u2019s just dribbling a basketball and shooting a bat. It doesn\u2019t make you good at basketball. Human beings and psychology is where your money really gets made, especially when you\u2019re dealing with people. What advice do you have for people that are trying to break into real estate investing and maybe they\u2019re struggling with understanding how to communicate better or the right way to present information?<\/p>\n
The first thing is to read the book, You\u2019re Not Listening. I\u2019ll have to have the producers put in the show notes because I don\u2019t remember the author offhand, but that book right there I think is exactly what you just talked about, is to understanding how someone\u2019s feeling, reading their emotion and actually listening to them and not just trying to be reactive by responding right away and trying to rationalize with them. A lot of times people just want to be understood, they just want to be heard. And if you\u2019re actually listening, you can maybe see some underlying thing that will help you actually resolve and solve the issue instead of trying to rationalize with them or really see what\u2019s going on.
The other book that I would recommend is Hug Your Haters by Jay Baer. It\u2019s a customer service based book, but I think it is a great read for anyone. So whether someone is giving you constructive criticism or bad feedback or you\u2019re dealing with a difficult seller or a difficult client, this just goes through the steps of how to handle that situation. It\u2019s kind of an exaggeration of kill them with kindness. It just shows all these cases of when somebody is almost attacking you or arguing with you, especially when you\u2019re in a negotiation as to how you can handle that situation to end up getting them to be thanking you.
Between those two books, I think those are really great reads, but communicating with people, that I have learned so much along the years. I have worked alongside this investor for almost eight years I think now, maybe even longer. We often laugh at how far I have come. I started out as a property manager and just dealing with tenants. I would just get so flustered, I would get overwhelmed. And now it\u2019s just handling different situations, staying calm, cool, collected, actually really thinking about how to respond because you can learn how to read people and all those things, but you\u2019re not going to be able to actually take notice of things if you\u2019re not yourself listening to them and actually observing. And you have to be able to stop yourself from reacting right away and going back and defending yourself and getting defensive before you can actually see the big picture of what they\u2019re trying to explain to you.<\/p>\n
That is a very good point. You want to understand where they\u2019re coming from before you try to make them understand where you\u2019re coming from and that takes some discipline. That\u2019s not a natural response.<\/p>\n
And you just said everything I said in one sentence. That could have been way shorter.<\/p>\n
Well, I had the benefit of thinking of my response as you were giving yours. Don\u2019t be too hard on yourself there.<\/p>\n
And that\u2019s part of the book is don\u2019t think of your response. It\u2019s like most people don\u2019t listen, they\u2019re actually thinking of their response, which is so hard to do, so hard to do.<\/p>\n
Yeah. That\u2019s like our baseline right off the market, right off the factory assembly line is to be defensive and to try to prove people that we\u2019re right, which is so weird because it\u2019s wildly arrogant to assume you\u2019re right about everything all the time. We all know the value of learning, but for some reason when we\u2019re in a conversation with somebody else, we don\u2019t think about learning. We think about how we need to teach them. We need to get them to see things from our point of view. I always use the example of if you\u2019re a boxer and you\u2019re trying to knock out your opponent, it doesn\u2019t work when their hands are up and they\u2019re not tired, you\u2019re just going to punch yourself out and get tired. What you want to do is let them punch themselves out. Don\u2019t try to knock somebody out until they\u2019re tired they don\u2019t want to be fighting anymore, which you usually do by getting them to talk.
Once someone has said everything they need to say, they\u2019ve got it all out of their chest and they told you how they feel, they are at their most vulnerable point as a human being ever, that\u2019s when you want to deliver your information. That seed will hit the softest, most fertile soil versus when you\u2019re trying to shove it in there before the person\u2019s ready to hear it. It actually just saves you a lot of energy too. That\u2019s a great point. Thank you for those two books. Now, moving on to insurance. What are some things that people should need to know when looking to buy their house about homeowner\u2019s insurance?<\/p>\n
The first thing is finding an agent that\u2019s familiar with doing landlord policies or whatever your strategy is. If you\u2019re flipping a house and it\u2019s going to be vacant, your insurance policy is going to be very different from a property that actually has somebody living in it. If you have a long-term rental property, if you have a short-term rental property, your insurance is going to be different. The cost of a short-term rental is usually higher than say your primary residence, but the cost of a long-term rental can oftentimes be lower than your primary residence because you\u2019re not covering any of the contents in the building. So aligning with an agent as to who has experience in these different realms or whatever your strategy is and having them actually sit down with you in going through the policy as to what\u2019s covered, what\u2019s not covered.
So like something that could not be covered on an insurance policy here in New York is in basements, there are sump pumps oftentimes, to pump out any water that comes into the basement of these old, old houses at these old foundations. That\u2019s like an added coverage onto most policies and you have to ask to have that added so that if the sump pump doesn\u2019t kick on or have a malfunction, your insurance policy will cover that. Also, you can get a discount for so many things. Like having a sump pump, you can get a discount for because it will pump out the water if there is flooding. So there\u2019s different things and find out and ask what those discounts are because they can really add up.
The next thing is any specialty insurance that\u2019s needed on the property. So Tony Robinson, my wonderful co-host, he bought a property in Louisiana and he had to get flood insurance on it and the flood insurance skyrocketed where the property became unaffordable to him. So that\u2019s why it\u2019s important to find out the information beforehand, and this was his first investment property and it\u2019s been a learning experience for us and many listeners too to understand, but there is earthquake insurance. There\u2019s all these different types of insurance policies that you can get and some of them are required, especially if you\u2019re getting a mortgage on the property such as the flood insurance.<\/p>\n
Okay. Last question for you. Do you have a preference between paying a little bit more to have an insurance agent that you communicate with if there\u2019s a claim or if there\u2019s a question or do you recommend people go the cheapest route possible and find an online insurance agency where you have to deal through virtual assistance or AI?<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know if there really is a cost difference because when you hire an agent, you\u2019re going through\u2026 So actually first, I wouldn\u2019t go with an agent. I would go with an insurance broker because they\u2019re able to quote it out to multiple companies. So then you\u2019re getting the quotes back and then you can go ahead and choose from there. That\u2019s my biggest recommendation. As far as doing an online site, I don\u2019t know this for sure, I\u2019ve never used them before, they say that they\u2019ll quote out your policies and give you the estimates back. As far as them offering it discounted, I don\u2019t know because it\u2019s actually the insurance company sending the offer and not the actual agency. I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s a good question.<\/p>\n
Yeah, the insurance company sending the offer will often make it cheaper if you do it through the online portal because they don\u2019t have to pay a commission or a wage to the person who brought them the business.<\/p>\n
Commission?<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
Interesting.<\/p>\n
The problem is when you make a claim through that, you get no help. You can\u2019t email someone and say, \u201cI have flooding, what do I do?\u201d That\u2019s what everybody wants. You\u2019re forced to go through the phone tree and they\u2019re like, \u201cWell, the reason we gave you the discount is because we don\u2019t pay anybody to service your claim.\u201d And I\u2019ve just seen people pull their hair out of their head going, getting bounced from person to person or dealing with bots or not getting a reply or talking to someone who doesn\u2019t speak English that just gives them a case number and hangs up on them.
It\u2019s very frustrating if you ever have to deal with the insurance company, and that\u2019s why I bring this up because it often seems like an easy way for investors to save money, which is funny because your insurance is such a small piece of your whole real estate budget. It\u2019s probably the worst way to try to make it more profitable is by saving $12 a month on your insurance program or something. But if you have an insurance broker, like you said, you have a human being that you can go to and say, \u201cA tree fell on my roof, what do I do?\u201d And they say, \u201cWe\u2019ll take care of it, we got you.\u201d<\/p>\n
And not even that part of it too. I find the biggest reason I need to talk to my agent or broker is because I need a copy of my policy binder showing that if I\u2019m getting a new mortgage on the property or some kind of new financing that the lender is actually added on as a loss payee and just having that done quickly or just being able to put insurance policy on a property. And this is why I went through and made this acquisition checklist, it was because several years ago my agent called me the day before closing, my real estate agent, \u201cOkay, are you all set to close? You got the utilities switched in your name, you got your insurance.\u201d And I panicked. It just slipped my mind. There was just so many things going on and I just forgot this one basic necessity. And having an agent where I could just call right away and send them the information and say, \u201cI need insurance asap. I\u2019m closing tomorrow.\u201d And having that relationship where they will drop everything and take care of that for you.<\/p>\n
All right. Last question of our show. What can someone expect on closing day if they make it that far?<\/p>\n
That varies by how you actually close on the property. So there are several different ways. In New York state, you have an attorney. You could either go to the county clerk\u2019s office and sit at a closing table, and that\u2019s quite common if you are using to purchase it with a mortgage where you\u2019re going to meet the attorney for the bank, you\u2019re going to sit down in actual closing table and then your attorney is going to take the documents and file them with the county clerk.
If you\u2019re in a state that you don\u2019t have to use attorneys and you can just go through title, you may have to go to the title office and sit there and sign the documents, or you can have a notary and you can go to your attorney\u2019s office ahead of time, sign, they\u2019ll notarize them, or the title company can send a notary to you. You see a lot of investors on Instagram posting how they\u2019re signing closing documents from the beach or a restaurant on vacation. And so I think closing has started to change. Like my attorney\u2019s office, pre COVID, I always had to physically go into the office the day of the closing, then the papers would be rushed to the other attorney\u2019s office that same day, then it would go and actually be filed that same day and I would bring the check and the check would be brought along.
Now, I just went and signed yesterday for a property that\u2019s closing. It\u2019s not going to close until next week. The funds are being held in escrow until closing, and then they will be released when it\u2019s actually filed with the clerk\u2019s office. So the paperwork between the next five days, the paperwork went from me to the buyer and then it will go to the clerk\u2019s office all within that timeframe. So there are so many different ways. The most exciting I think is when you\u2019re actually sitting at a closing table, you get handed the keys after you sign and you give your check, but I really have not seen that happen. Oftentimes, I don\u2019t even get keys to a property anymore it seems like.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s true. You rarely ever get handed keys. Like your agent figures out some way to coordinate those. That\u2019s a good point. What are some things you recommend that on closing day, when people go sit down, assuming that they\u2019ve gone through an escrow company and a real estate agent, they\u2019re not working directly with seller, that they should be looking at in their closing paperwork to make sure that it\u2019s accurate?<\/p>\n
So even like the day before closing or maybe the morning of closing, you should be going to the property and doing a final inspection, a final walkthrough. Even if you\u2019re buying a property that\u2019s been vacant the whole time you\u2019ve had it under contract, you want to go in there and make sure the pipes didn\u2019t freeze and water burst all over, different things like that. You still want to go and make sure the property is in the same condition as when you put it under contract. So that\u2019s the first thing you should do. Then on the actual closing days, looking at the closing statement. And if you are working with a great title company or attorney, they should send this to you ahead of time to actually review.
So if you\u2019re purchasing a property that has tenants in place, you want to make sure that you\u2019re being prorated for the actual rental income. So maybe the tenants pay on the first, but you\u2019re closing on the 15th so that it\u2019s prorated for the 15 days that you\u2019re going to be taking over the property and they\u2019re keeping the first 15 days that they own the property. Also, if there\u2019s a security deposit, that you are getting the security deposit. So that\u2019s usually seen as a credit on the statement. So it\u2019s not like you\u2019re actually getting a check for $600, they\u2019re just taking $600 off of the total purchase price.
Then you want to make sure the property taxes are prorated, which will be figured out for you. The seller had paid any that still cover part of the tax year. And those are kind of the big things. And then also just be aware as to what kind of fees you are paying, filing fees, title fees, survey fees, if any, things like that. And just get familiar with what a closing statement looks like. You can Google one and just look at, get familiar as to different charges that are on them. And if you\u2019re closing with a mortgage too, it\u2019ll definitely be way more in depth than if you just have your attorney put it together for a cash deal.<\/p>\n
Those are great, great points. Another one I\u2019ll add, this is something that\u2019s in my checklist that I have my assistants whenever I\u2019m closing a property that they do, because it happens so frequently, is the closing costs that we\u2019re negotiated are often not included in the paperwork. And I always would just get so angry like someone\u2019s screwing me over until I realize how it works is the agents fill out the addendum, they work it out. Sometimes there\u2019s two or three of them going back and forth before you finally agree, or more, on what it\u2019s going to be. Those are forwarded to the title company. If they\u2019re not forwarded to the title company, the title company has no way of knowing, or I should say the escrow company, has no way of knowing if those should be included. Even if they are, often the closing statement was filled out before the negotiations were done.
So some employee at that place gets the email that says, \u201cHere\u2019s addendums.\u201d And they don\u2019t read all of them, or they don\u2019t look at them closely and they just don\u2019t see, oh, $7,500 credit is supposed to go to the buyer because when they were originally negotiating, that wasn\u2019t in there. So you should know going in what your credits that you\u2019re supposed to be getting and whether they\u2019re lender credits, they\u2019re credits from the seller, or if it\u2019s the other way around, if something was adjusted, if the appraise price came in lower and you adjusted the purchase price down. Don\u2019t assume that the closing paperwork is going to reflect that. As the buyer, you have to go in knowing. And it\u2019s okay to delay closing if you say, \u201cHey, this needs to be fixed.\u201d
So that\u2019s one of the reasons that we always try to schedule these last like when you go to sign your paperwork early in the morning. Because if you do it at four o\u2019clock in the afternoon because that\u2019s when it\u2019s convenient for you or whatever, you try to figure it out at your lunch break at 2:30, it\u2019s too late in the day to get the new documents drawn up and get all the approvals and now the closing is delayed by a day and that can screw things up. So there are still human beings that are involved in putting this stuff together and human beings make mistakes.
All right, Ashley. Well, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing so much of your knowledge, wisdom, and time with us on specifically how to get a property for someone who hasn\u2019t got one or hasn\u2019t got many. Before we let you get out of here, where can people find this book?<\/p>\n
You can go to the BiggerPockets bookstore. And if you order before January 10th, which is when it officially releases, you get some of the pre-order bonuses, a bunch of worksheets and just tons of forms and documents I\u2019ve put together over the years. But also you could win a chance to actually be mentored by Tony and I, and it\u2019ll actually be recorded and played live on the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. So you\u2019ll get some help from us and you\u2019ll actually get to be a guest on the podcast too.<\/p>\n
Awesome. So go check that out. Unless you\u2019ve got a million properties, go get Ashley\u2019s book and learn how you can get more. And if you already do have a couple properties, learn how you can do it better, right? There\u2019s lots of ways, like we talked about on the show, where you can make pretty big mistakes. So if you heard anything on today\u2019s episode and thought, \u201cOoh, I\u2019m not doing that.\u201d Go get the book and see what else you might not be doing.
Thank you very much for your time, Ashley. I know you\u2019re a busy woman, so I\u2019m going to let you get out of here. Guys, if you liked Ashley\u2019s show, go check her out on the Real Estate Rookie Podcast. Ashley, where else can people find out more about you?<\/p>\n
You can reach out to me on biggerpockets.com, my profile there, or on Instagram, @wealthfromrentals.<\/p>\n
And you can find me on Instagram or YouTube or anywhere else, @davidgreene24. All right, thanks Ashley. Good luck with your book sales and we\u2019ll see you soon.<\/p>\n