\n<\/p>\n
Knowing how to <\/strong>find real estate deals<\/strong><\/a> can be challenging for new and experienced investors. For those who want to build bigger portfolios beyond just buying single-family rental properties<\/strong>, finding multifamily, development, or perfect medium-term rental deals can be a struggle. You have to be in the know and have a network full of agents, brokers, lenders, and other investors who can throw deals your way, so you don\u2019t have to dig through the scraps that bigger investors (or investment firms) have left behind.<\/p>\n This is a struggle that all three of our ninety-day mentees <\/strong>have faced since we spoke to them last. We\u2019ll be getting updates on all their situations in today\u2019s episode as David and Rob work to get them to their next investments as soon as possible<\/strong>. First, we talk to Philip<\/strong>, who\u2019s still struggling to find adequate land for his future resort<\/strong>. He\u2019s successfully made one offer but has yet to receive a counter. Next, Wendy<\/strong> wants out of turnkey rentals and is looking into more cash-flow heavy real estate investments like <\/strong>medium-term rentals<\/strong><\/a> that can provide her the retirement she dreams of.<\/p>\n Lastly, we talk to Danny<\/strong>, who\u2019s struggling to connect the dots that will lead to his next property. As an introvert, finding contractors in the field has become challenging<\/strong>, although he has started to reach out to other investors he knows in his area. A common thread in this episode is that ALL our mentees are finding a pain point stopping them from reaching their next property. Of course, what they do next is entirely up to them, but you\u2019ll hear case-by-case advice from David and Rob, which could also help you on your next deal<\/strong>! So if you\u2019ve hit a roadblock on your path to real estate wealth<\/strong>, don\u2019t give up\u2014tune in!<\/p>\n David: Philip: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: Philip: Rob: David: Philip: David: Philip: David: Philip: David: Rob: David: Philip: David: Speaker X: Philip: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Speaker X: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: David: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: Rob: Wendy: David: Rob: David: Wendy: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Danny: David: Danny: David: Danny: David: Danny: David: Rob: Danny: Rob: Danny: David: Danny: David: Danny: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: Rob: Danny: David: Rob: David: Danny: Rob: Danny: David: Danny: David: Rob: David: Rob: David: \u00a0<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/em>sponsor page<\/em><\/a>!<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is the BiggerPockets podcast, show 719. Your goal is to get a counter offer, not to get this offer accepted.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
All right? If they haven\u2019t responded right away, they didn\u2019t love your offer, that\u2019s okay. You want to go tell their agent, \u201cHey, I want you to get me a counter offer.\u201d Okay? That tells you, you\u2019re moving in the right direction. Okay? If they come off their million, you\u2019re looking to see how far did they come off that million? Did they come down to 900? Did they get into 850? Are they at like 995? Right? That\u2019s going to tell you if this is worth pursuing. If they counter you at five grand off a list, just move on.
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets podcast. Here today with our follow-up episode from our first interview with our mentees. This is the 90-Day mentor check-in number two. If you didn\u2019t know what was going on, we found three people that reached out to us after BP Con in San Diego who said, \u201cI want to buy real estate and I want to be directly mentored by David and Rob.\u201d And in today\u2019s episode, we are following up with the advice we gave them from the first time we talked and getting an update on how it\u2019s going in their journey. Rob, what were some of your favorite parts of today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n
I think we gave some very actionable steps to our mentees. One of my favorite things about them is they did what most people don\u2019t do, is they actually took action on goals and homework assignments that we gave them, right? We gave them all actionable things. Last episode, they did everything, and thus most of them had progress towards the end goal that they\u2019re going for. They\u2019re all going through something a little bit different, some actual tactical real estate struggles, all the way to getting out of your comfort zone. If you\u2019re an introvert, how can you overcome that? And you gave some really good advice, I think. I think I actually gave decent advice as an extrovert, and I think we were able to help them out and we gave them some good actionable steps for when they check in. Again, I\u2019m excited because I think they\u2019re starting to turn the corner a little bit.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Something to keep in mind as you listen. A common thread in every epic story ever told is that something has to go wrong. There needs to be a challenge, an obstacle. The world at one point was a good place and something has changed and now it\u2019s hard, and the hero has to step up and overcome that obstacle. And it almost always requires the hero finding something in themselves that they did not have.
I challenge you to find any popular story. Star Wars, The Lion King, The Matrix, all of them. They all follow this exact same trend. And in today\u2019s episode, we are following along with our mentees in their hero\u2019s journey as they have to overcome individual obstacles. Now, the deeper that we dive into their journey, the more of these obstacles that start to surface and the better advice we can give them on how to overcome it.
So today\u2019s quick dip is, as you\u2019re listening to today\u2019s show, ask yourself, \u201cAm I struggling with something similar to this person?\u201d And even if you\u2019re not, does this advice apply anywhere else in your life or in your business? You, the listener right now, are on a hero\u2019s journey as well, and we want to tap into that and help you make some progress. I\u2019m just waiting to see how long I\u2019ll wait before Rob will say something.<\/p>\n
Oh, sorry. Was I supposed to plus that up? It\u2019s just good. It\u2019s not so quick if I jump in, you know what I mean? It then becomes like a\u2026 We\u2019re quipping back and forth. It becomes a quip tip at that point. But that was so succinct, so concise. So the brevity was outstanding and I\u2019ve ruined it.<\/p>\n
Thank you.<\/p>\n
And I feel bad now because I didn\u2019t mean to take the thunder away from it.<\/p>\n
No, I appreciate that. I wanted your lightning to my thunder. Together, we are a storm that is something to be reckoned with. And if you want to know why my quick tip was faster, it\u2019s because many of you mentioned on YouTube that they\u2019re not so quick tips because we do listen to the YouTube comments that you give. So take a minute to listen to today\u2019s show and give your comments that let us know what you liked, what you didn\u2019t like, what your favorite part of the show was, and give some advice and encouragements to the mentees who show up today and share their journey with everyone. Also, while you\u2019re there, subscribe to BiggerPockets on YouTube. You won\u2019t regret it.
All right, let\u2019s get into today\u2019s show. Okay. We are going to start with Philip. Philip is a high school Spanish teacher from California, where I live, and his goal is to get into multi-family and or a glamp site for a retreat center. If you didn\u2019t catch last episode, Philip is a very creative type, much like Rob Abasolo who looks for an angle of how to make an experience for someone that they\u2019re going to want to keep coming back to, as opposed to a purely analytical person who just says, \u201cI don\u2019t know. What does Excel say?\u201d Which is pretty fun.
So tell us, Phillip, what was the homework that we gave you last time and how did it go?<\/p>\n
Yeah, thank you so much, David. So my homework was to reach out to land brokers and also to your former guests that started discountlots.com and build out some more resources of agents potentially, or brokers that could help me find land. I reached out to Discount Lots. I had some great conversations with them. One of the challenges was most of the land that they had in a radius of where I live is not really that hospitable for a retreat center. It\u2019s stuff in the desert. It\u2019s stuff that is a great price and I love the business model, but it just doesn\u2019t work for what we\u2019re trying to offer our potential clients.
And then I reached out to several land brokers. And I think one of the challenges I got was they\u2019re really just trying to sell me the land that they had, that I was able to find these brokers on LoopNet, and Crecsi and able to see some of their listings.
And at least for the most part, they really just wanted me to buy the land that they had on, that they had listed, which a lot of times there were access issues or permitting issues or zoning issues that various obvious reasons for me weren\u2019t going to work. So those were challenging. On that end, in a positive note, I spent a lot of my own time sifting through listings and listings that had quite a bit of time on them, and I actually found a piece of land that is in a totally the area that is my target area, and it is in an appreciating area. People are moving. It\u2019s really beautiful and we put an offer on it yesterday. We\u2019ll see if it\u2019s accepted or not. We definitely came in much lower than the listing price, but it\u2019s been on the market for almost a year.
So there\u2019s definitely some things to do there. And then the other homework that you gave me was to don\u2019t just drop some of the shorter term projects that I\u2019m doing with raising money for people and doing some of these more active types of investments like flipping and this kind of stuff. And I met with more potential private money lenders. I met with four potential private money lenders over the last week. Had some really great conversations and just building relationship with those kind of folks. And then also starting to deepen relationship with certain operators and decide like, okay, is this person, do our values align? Do I want to work with them? So that\u2019s where I\u2019m at.<\/p>\n
Now, when you say potential operators, what exactly do you mean by that?<\/p>\n
Yeah, so I met with someone that\u2019s doing flips that we are in masterminds together. We are in a couple masterminds together. I visited six of her sites. She\u2019s got sites throughout LA where she\u2019s doing flips and I got to meet her general contractor. I got to see her budget, essentially where did she come in at the start? What she\u2019d been offering her investors and sort of getting an insight into what\u2019s her flow. And that was really actually awesome to be able to just visit her sites and just go in person, see what she\u2019s doing.
Then there\u2019s a team in Florida that I spent some time with virtually that I raised money for a deal for them, and I could see myself doing more stuff with them in the future, but I\u2019m going to take it slow and see how this first one goes out.<\/p>\n
Now remind me, what is your flipping career thus far?<\/p>\n
Yeah. So right now, I have five properties in Cleveland and three of them\u2026 two of them, I did full rehabs BRRRR style, and then one of them, I got through creative finance. And then I\u2019m in the middle of two rehabs in Cleveland, doing all long distance. Have my general contractors that I\u2019ve developed relationship with out there, and lenders, and essentially a team that I\u2019ve built out there. And it\u2019s been going fine. Things are going fine there, but it\u2019s definitely\u2026 I mean, what would I say? It\u2019s less downside but also less upside. And it does feel like I\u2019m doing maybe too many things to do them well. And so I\u2019m trying to hone in on what is the thing that I can really do well and it\u2019s feeling like raising private money is one of them.<\/p>\n
So for anyone at home, just to catch you up on this, I think our advice to you, Philip, was with the glamp side or with the retreat, whatever you\u2019re building, that\u2019s going to be a project that\u2019s going to take 14 to 18 months, maybe even longer, to actually get up and running. So our recommendation to you was to continue getting your day-to-day projects out the door so that you can make money while you\u2019re trying to basically launch this development. That\u2019s kind of where we left off, right?<\/p>\n
Yeah, totally. I mean, that\u2019s been in the front of my mind and I\u2019ve, even just thinking about my timeline, I want to be able to build out the retreat center with a long-term vision, not forcing it to make me money in month three or month six or month nine, but something that is built to last. That\u2019s really what I want to do with that, but I also need to eat in the meantime. So I\u2019m trying to find the balance of that.<\/p>\n
Yeah, yeah. It\u2019s something we all face, right? Because it seems like you\u2019re hungry enough to be good at whatever you do and thus when you have the ability to be good at everything you do, you want to do everything because you\u2019re like, \u201cI can do it.\u201d Right? So as you start to lean into this, you\u2019re good at raising money. I think this is a great niche. I don\u2019t think a lot of people are very good at raising money. It\u2019s a very specific type of skill that it takes to actually pitch an investor and romance them and schmooze them, wine and dine them, and everything like that.
So have you considered jumping into some of these partnerships like you were talking about where your sole purpose is just to provide the money and maybe you get just a piece, maybe a percentage of the profit, or just a piece of equity in that particular project?<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s totally what my game plan is right now, and that is what the deal that I worked out with the group that I\u2019m working with in Tampa. And now I\u2019m in the role of, okay, people are really trusting me and they\u2019re trusting my judgment. And I had some of these conversations with Andrew Cushman and Matt Faircloth, but it\u2019s just how do I make sure that I am responsible with how I vet people that I\u2019m potentially raising money for? Which is why the guys in Tampa, they have more deals, but I want to take it slow and see how this first one goes before I do anything else for them. But yeah, I\u2019m definitely starting to lean into that and sort of, okay, I can\u2019t be great at everything, so what are the things that I\u2019m going to sacrifice that they are interesting to me, but maybe I can\u2019t be great in them, especially not in six months or a year.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s okay. Well, like I said, I think leading into the money part of it, the raising money, that\u2019s good. That\u2019s like an important thing. If you\u2019re worried about vetting effectively your other partners, that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying, the people you\u2019re raising money for, have you gone and actually looked at any of their properties or walked to one of their projects?<\/p>\n
So in the folks in Tampa or the folks in LA?<\/p>\n
You would be raising money for both, right?<\/p>\n
Yeah. Yeah. I mean hypothetically, yeah.<\/p>\n
Okay, so both.<\/p>\n
Yeah, in LA, yeah, I walked five of her properties, or I walked six of her properties, and then I saw what her purchase price is, what her rehab budget was. Like I said, I got to meet her contractor. And then it was kind of cool. I got to see one of her projects that she hasn\u2019t bought yet, but she\u2019s like\u2026 I got to see her sort of idea phase. We met with her agent and some other folks and saw some potentially major issues with a property that she\u2019s thinking of taking on, but then it\u2019s like, okay, what is her game plan for how she would mitigate those?
And yeah, that was awesome, honestly. And then for the folks in Tampa, it was going through, seeing their past projects, a lot of that. And then I interviewed several of the people that have lent money to them in the past. That was a huge part of what I did.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I see. I see. Well, I think you sort of mentioned it, like walking that project and seeing what they had in the pipeline added a level of legitimacy that was a positive experience for you. I mean, I think that\u2019s what it comes down to. You can vet a bunch of different ways. You can talk to contractors that they\u2019ve worked with before, ask those contractors like, \u201cHey, did they pay on time?\u201d Talk to different sub vendors or subcontractors, talk to different realtors they\u2019ve worked with, walk those properties, look at the final projects of something that they\u2019ve flipped before. I think those are small steps that you can take.
I think you\u2019re going to have a bunch of check boxes in terms of what different types of things you can do, but the more you can check off, the more you\u2019re going to start feeling better about handing them like a $50,000 check. So it seems like you\u2019ve sort of started to do that with the person in LA. Now you got to go and actually fly out to Florida probably and actually see one of the projects that are currently in construction or in the pipeline.<\/p>\n
Yeah, totally. That\u2019s definitely my game plan is essentially how being a part of the team of one of these people that our values aligned and am I happy with the way that they\u2019re working in this space?<\/p>\n
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.<\/p>\n
All right, Phillip, so you\u2019ve been drawing out a vision and fundraising for your retreat center, but it sounds like you\u2019re coming up against the hurdle of time scarcity. You\u2019re trying to visit these potential sites on top of your commitments as a teacher. Like you said, you got to eat. So tell me what has been the biggest hurdle that you\u2019re trying to overcome when it comes to having the time that you want to put into this new endeavor?<\/p>\n
I think for the retreat space, a huge challenge has been\u2026 I mean, we talked about last, the time deal flow. I\u2019m still not totally satisfied with my deal flow. I did reach out to one of the groups that the masterminds that I\u2019m a part of to get a broker recommendation for land, had a great conversation with somebody. Now, I am in the position, I do take very seriously the idea of\u2026 I don\u2019t want to have five agents doing a bunch of work for me that they\u2019re not compensated for. There is a part of me that\u2019s like, I would really just rather work with one person that\u2019s awesome, than have five people that I\u2019m testing out, like are they okay? Are they good? Just because I do feel like a lot of the agents that are helping me out, they\u2019ll have to go an hour or two hours potentially outside of their normal radius of where they work in order to walk some of these properties for me and to walk some of this land for me.
And yeah, I don\u2019t want to get the reputation as somebody that has an agent do a bunch of work for them for free. I am sort of moving through that as now I have three people essentially looking for properties for me.<\/p>\n
So let\u2019s get into your most important next step and what you can do moving forward. So briefly tell me the offer that you wrote on the property. What was it listed forward? What was your offer price?<\/p>\n
Yeah. So it is listed for a million. It\u2019s been on the market for almost like a 10 months, 11 months. When I went there by myself, I found a listing by myself. And in talking with the listing agent, she was saying that the reason why it hasn\u2019t sold is because the sellers didn\u2019t\u2026 potential buyers didn\u2019t have enough to put down, which I don\u2019t think is going to be an issue for me, but\u2026 or that they were asking for the seller to carry more paper than they wanted to carry.
So our offer is listed for a million. We put two offers. One of them was 775 and 40% down with a 36-month term, and the other offer was 815 with 40% down, and it\u2019s the same terms. And then yeah, that was our offer. There\u2019s some due diligence things that we really need to assess with the property. The sellers really haven\u2019t done hardly anything as far as seeing does the well function, does the septic in good condition, what\u2019s the status of electrical hookups. There\u2019s a lot of due diligence things that we have to check off before me personally, before I commit a bunch of investors into this project with me. But I could totally see it working.<\/p>\n
I hear you. So here\u2019s the homework for you. Your goal is to get a counter offer, not to get this offer accepted.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
All right. If they haven\u2019t responded right away, they didn\u2019t love your offer, that\u2019s okay. You tell your agent to tell their agent\u2026 That reminds me of that Notorious BIG song, tell your friends to tell my friends that we could be friends. You want to go tell their agent, \u201cHey, I want you to get me a counter offer.\u201d That tells you, you\u2019re moving in the right direction. If they come off their million, you\u2019re looking to see how far did they come off that million? Did they come down to 900? Did they get into 850? Are they at like 995, right? That\u2019s going to tell you this is worth pursuing. If they counter you at five grand off a list, just move on and then check in two weeks and see if anything\u2019s different.
If they counter you significantly lower, you can get into this negotiation going back and forth. And maybe they don\u2019t come all the way down to your 815, maybe they go into 875, you accept it, you start your due diligence, you come back and you ask for that extra 50 to 80 grand off once you have some form of due diligence, but you want to get a counter, you don\u2019t want to get an acceptance. All right?
The next piece of advice I want to give you has to do with working with different realtors. Have a straightforward conversation with each of them and say, \u201cI feel bad wasting your time. What would this relationship need to look like for you to be happy about it? Are you taking hours every week to look for stuff for me? Are you just putting a search together and firing it over? Tell me what you want to see in our relationship differently.\u201d And then I want you, Philip, to gauge that against what feels right to you and look for some congruency. You want to see if you\u2019re clicking with them, but you can\u2019t find that out till everybody lays their cards on the table. So that\u2019s the other piece of advice that I\u2019m going to give you is get everyone to lay those cards on the table. Rob, any last words from you?<\/p>\n
No, that\u2019s good, man. I think getting a counter offer really is step one and find out if it\u2019s even\u2026 You\u2019re spinning your wheels a lot and you don\u2019t even know if the deal is a possibility right now. Let\u2019s find out that it\u2019s even in the wheelhouse before you start calling inspectors, finding out about the septic report and all that kind of stuff. You don\u2019t want to waste too much time spinning your wheels for something that may be just completely not going to happen at all.<\/p>\n
Yeah, Phillip, what you\u2019re going to learn is when a seller makes a decision, because we typically speak to the agents. My agent said this, their agent said that. Doesn\u2019t matter. The seller makes a decision on emotions and emotions change quick. So if they say, \u201cNo, wait.\u201d In two weeks, their emotional state could be different. If they say, \u201cI don\u2019t want to do 815, but I\u2019ll do 875,\u201d now they\u2019ve already moved in your direction in a couple weeks, they might be like, \u201cYou know what, 815 is not sounding so bad.\u201d They hear one piece of bad news on CNN or Fox and all of a sudden they\u2019re like, \u201cYeah, let\u2019s just sell this thing.\u201d So you\u2019re trying to get some momentum built in the direction you\u2019re going. Sound good?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s awesome advice. Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the laying out how to frame some of these conversations with my agents because I really do respect their time a lot and I want to be transparent as possible. If an agent sends me something and it works, I\u2019m going to go with them.<\/p>\n
All right.<\/p>\n
Thank you, Philip. We\u2019ll be following up.<\/p>\n
Thank you so much.<\/p>\n
Okay. Wendy St. Clair, again, great name, great name. Just to recap, everybody here, you are a high tech marketer from Long Beach. You have nine single family rental properties, you\u2019re ready to branch out of turnkey, and you\u2019re also exploring career opportunities in real estate, other things that you can be doing. Does that all sound about right?<\/p>\n
Yes. Very concise.<\/p>\n
Okay, cool. And so what was your homework from the last time that we spoke with you?<\/p>\n
Well, we had three different things and I\u2019m going to go over them really quickly. The first one was you wanted me to look at other opportunities for what I might do in the real estate world. And it really was an important thing for me to do because I kind of soul searched about what I want and what I don\u2019t want and where I am in my life.
One of the great things that really came from it was I realized I don\u2019t want to start from the beginning. I don\u2019t want to build from the start. I have a lot of skills, I have a lot of experience. And so instead of going into something more corporate, I think you\u2019d recommended loan process or that sort of thing, I really am more interested in something more entrepreneurial, not corporate, and eventually moving into more of a retirement mode. So I think I have deemphasized that. I\u2019m going to stick with what I\u2019m doing in high tech marketing for the time being until I work in real estate and do some projects. And as things evolve, maybe something will come around that becomes a bigger priority for me or maybe I find my way into something as I\u2019m doing these other projects.<\/p>\n
Okay, great. And then did you say that, were there two other pieces of homework?<\/p>\n
Yes. So the other part was really, it\u2019s a one other project that had two parts to it and it was, what\u2019s my next move? And so as we talked about, I have some turnkey rentals that are currently in action. And Rob, you were really integral in making me think about this differently, because I had never considered turning one of those existing properties into a mid-term rental or a short-term rental.
So I went back to the board and I looked at the two properties I have vacant right now. One is not closed yet, it\u2019s still being built. The first one is in Baltimore. And I did an analysis of the market there and what it would cost to furnish it and looked at the area and kind of came away with, if I had to do it midterm rental, I could maybe do it, but let\u2019s stick with the long-term rental for that one.
Right now the numbers just didn\u2019t make that much sense. But what did make sense was in the Florida property that I am looking at closing on in March, I\u2019m buying two of these and they\u2019re brand new builds. They\u2019re beautiful, three bedroom, two bath houses. And I think what I\u2019m going to do is I\u2019m going to try to turn one of them into a midterm rental. And I actually had a call this week with Sarah from 30 Day Rental.<\/p>\n
Nice.<\/p>\n
And yeah, I talked with them about their services and their design services. They\u2019ve got a great turnkey situation that would be very easy for me to do. It\u2019s fairly affordable to furnish the whole house. And I mean, it\u2019s a learning curve for me. So what\u2019s my time versus money evaluation, how does that go?
So I think for my first one, it might be a great thing to use them for something like this. And when I ran the numbers in that area, there\u2019s not a lot of full houses available for people to rent. And I could probably increase the rent from 1850 a month on the long-term rental to close to 2,700, maybe even 3,000 for a short-term rental. So that kind of makes sense. The only question there is there a market for it? And I\u2019m pretty confident there is, but I got to dig a little deeper.<\/p>\n
Cool.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I thought that was a win. And then the last one was, all right, great. So if we\u2019re going to go down that path with that one, what\u2019s next for Wendy as far as my next investment?
So to recap, I\u2019ve got a W2 job. I\u2019ve got no primary residence, so the time is right for me to use the conventional loan for once and only that I have all my other loans are DSCRs. So I would love to buy a property that I could call my own and maybe house hack it and put multiple people in it, maybe travel nurses. So the question is where do I do that? I\u2019m looking at the Las Vegas market. In the last week. I got a realtor, I\u2019m getting my loans approved and I\u2019ve started looking at properties. There.<\/p>\n
Awesome.<\/p>\n
So that\u2019s what I\u2019m at.<\/p>\n
Well, let\u2019s get into your struggle the week here. You shared with us that your struggle of the week has been with market analysis. Can you tell us a little bit about what you\u2019re actually getting hung up on in that department?<\/p>\n
Sure. Well, I\u2019m an Excel spreadsheet guru. I do use your online tool as well. And I use it especially for the rent analyzer situation. But I then put together my own spreadsheet and I go, \u201cAll right, how much could I rent this for, long-term, mid-term? What does this look like?\u201d But I kind of get stuck in my own analysis paralysis. And it\u2019s something about the fear of knowing whether or not the market really will bear this. Do people really want to live together in a house that they don\u2019t know each other? And what, if they are, then what\u2019s important for them? Is it a big room? Is it a lot of open space? Is it a larger place? Is it a pool? What are the parameters that I should work within in order to find the perfect property?<\/p>\n
So just to recap, it\u2019s like you know that there\u2019s sort of this safety net of long-term rentals and you\u2019re like, that\u2019s something you know\u2026 the devil you know, if you will. We\u2019re having a little trouble understanding if there actually is that market for mid-term rentals and short-term rentals. Is that about right?<\/p>\n
Yes, and I have a big fear about the short-term rentals that they are getting oversaturated and that there\u2019s just so much complexity with the city thing. So really, I\u2019m kind of interested in the midterm just because of that and it might be easier for me. But yes.<\/p>\n
I think first off, I want to commend you for doing, you\u2019re thinking the right way. You\u2019re asking all the right questions. Your brain is operating, I\u2019m going to say just like mine would, but now that sounds like I\u2019m complimenting myself, which is not what I was trying to do there. But I like the way that you\u2019re approaching it here.
I also like your pivot to, \u201cHey, maybe I\u2019m just going to house hack.\u201d I think that that could be a good way to get into this. I don\u2019t have a word for what you\u2019re doing here, but you\u2019re minimizing risk in several steps. The first is you\u2019re moving to a house hack that minimizes risk. Then you\u2019re thinking, \u201cWell, I want to do medium term rental, but it might not work out.\u201d So another way you could minimize risk would say, \u201cI\u2019m going to try to do a mid-term rental, but I\u2019m going to fall back onto a long-term rental if it doesn\u2019t work. So I\u2019m going to underwrite a property that would break even or make a little bit of money if it was a long-term rental.\u201d I mean, a lot of money is better, but you can\u2019t assume that. And that way, if the city shuts me down or there isn\u2019t the demand that I was hoping for, anything goes wrong, you just boom, throw some tenants in there and what you\u2019ve done is buy yourself time.
It doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t do a mid-term rental or short-term rental. It means I don\u2019t have to figure this problem out in the next month or two while I\u2019m bleeding money. You put a long-term tenant in there, you stabilize it, you continue doing market research. Where do I have to advertise this thing? What platform would work? What hospitals are hiring? Can I get in with the HR department to let them know I have properties that are here?
And then when your tenant is going to be out of their lease, you do some research then on like, okay, do I want to convert this into a midterm rental? Now, you\u2019ve got a couple months to buy the furniture, right? What makes real estate hard and stressful is when you compress everything into the short timeframe. But we just assume that\u2019s the way it has to be. I got to buy the property, close in 30 days, then I got to rehab it as quick as I humanly can. Then I got to furnish it as fast as possible. Then I got to eliminate my vacancy and throw a tenant in there. And all of that is a high pressure cooker situation that leads to mistakes happening versus when you can spread this out over time, you can conduct your due diligence and you can get the verification that your subconscious is screaming at you that you need.
Because that\u2019s a very good point, how do I know someone\u2019s going to rent this thing out? I don\u2019t even know where I would look. Well, if you gave yourself a year or even six months to do some research on that and you started slowly, now you figure out what works and then you start slowly converting more units into something like this, then you feel confident about demand. Now you can go balls to the wall. I\u2019m just going to go buy as many of these properties as possible. So I\u2019d like the shifts that you\u2019re making. I think this is very wise. I want to commend you for how you\u2019re looking at it. Rob, what angles are you seeing as she talks?<\/p>\n
Yeah, totally. So this to me, I think like you said, this is such a great lesson for a lot of people that I think that real estate is about exploration. When we get started, we\u2019re seeing all these opportunities and we\u2019re like, \u201cOh, we got to try it all.\u201d But I think in this instance, Wendy, my question to you, and I think I know the answer to this, but currently all of your properties, they work as a long-term rental, right?<\/p>\n
They do.<\/p>\n
Okay. That\u2019s sort of what you based just the initial purchase on, right, that they\u2019re going to be long-term rentals?<\/p>\n
Yes, they work as long-term rentals, but that\u2019s not\u2026 as I got deeper and deeper into it, that does not make a retirement. That is just a little gravy and maybe equity over time. But in most of these markets that the turnkeys I purchased in, they\u2019re questionable as to whether how great their equity is going to grow over time. So it\u2019s not like buying a place in San Diego.<\/p>\n
Sure. Sure. But I think the point that I\u2019m making here, because this is a good conservative way to get into short-term rentals. If you can make\u2026 It\u2019s harder and harder these days with interest rates, but you\u2019ve already bought these purchases with the assumption that they will work as a long-term rental. Now I understand from a retirement standpoint that it may not be as juicy as you want it to be, but you already own the house. So it\u2019s pretty low stakes. It\u2019s a lot lower stakes than if you\u2019re comping out of property that you want it to work as a short-term rental and it barely works as a short-term rental. And some people do that without confirming that it would work as a long-term rental. And those stakes are high for that person because if it doesn\u2019t work, they will lose money. That\u2019s not the case with you.
You might be out your furnishings, worst case scenario, but your stakes here are really low. You can furnish it, try it out as a short-term rental. If that doesn\u2019t work, you can try it out as a mid-term rental. Either way, you tried it two different ways. It\u2019s not like you\u2019re going to lose the house. You can always convert it to a long-term rental.
So I think from my standpoint, I love this strategy because if you can make a deal work for a long-term rental, you can effectively make it work for any other kind of rental out there. Medium, short, medium-short, smedium, whatever you want to do. So I think that it\u2019s honestly not as risky as you think. And probably for you, my action step for you is I think you just need to really educate yourself a lot more, as much as possible on mid-term rentals. Because as we start to learn more about the space, it becomes a lot easier.
That\u2019s my channel. I try to make people feel comfortable about short-term rentals. So I\u2019m going to give you one person that you can go follow right now because you already know about Sarah Weaver, she\u2019s great. But there\u2019s a guy, his name is Jesse Vasquez. He\u2019s got a YouTube channel, he\u2019s got an Instagram channel, and he\u2019s all about mid-term rentals. He talks about how to go and actually give you a contingency plan, like how you actually go and seek out these clients. That\u2019s what you\u2019re scared of, is how am I going to get the people that actually do it?
So his methodology is actually contacting hospital staffing agencies and staffing agencies in general, and then insurance companies and insurance companies that will pay basically for a displaced family to stay in a home. And he kind of teaches the process of getting these contracts and all that kind of stuff. So go look at his content. And just by watching that, it\u2019ll teach you other ways that you can obtain your own clients and leads on the mid-term rental without having to depend on some of the platforms like Airbnb, Furnished Finder, Vrbo.<\/p>\n
Awesome.<\/p>\n
So go get some more education on it. Go follow him. Go find out ways that you can create more deal flow for clients to actually stay as a mid-term tenant, and I think you\u2019ll start feeling a little bit better about this decision. But all in all, I\u2019m going to say low stakes here. You already own the home. It\u2019s going to work no matter what. Small experiment to find out, right? And if it pans out, the upside is actually sounds like it\u2019s going to be pretty good.<\/p>\n
Right. Yeah. Cool.<\/p>\n
All right, Rob, that was some great advice there as far as a new step for Wendy to take there. Wendy, I\u2019m going to add on this. Take a property you already have, and I want you to do some research on if one of those, or even better, a unit in one of those could be converted into a medium-term rental in that market. If they\u2019re out in the middle of a rural area and you\u2019re renting it out to dairy farmers, maybe that\u2019s not going to be likely. But if you could find something that is in a urban area, I want you to do some research and ask yourself, \u201cIf I were to convert this unit into a medium-term rental, what would I do? How would I do the research? What would I do?\u201d
And if it looks promising, look at your leases and see which one\u2019s expiring first, and see if maybe I could try it with one of these. Furnish it. I\u2019d probably go for the least risk one possible, like the cheapest. Something that you could put secondhand furniture. You don\u2019t have to go to, I don\u2019t know, Crate and Barrel or one of those. I don\u2019t know if expensive furniture. I\u2019m not married. I\u2019m assuming Crate and Barrel. I think my assistant said that one time is expensive.<\/p>\n
CB2, West Elm.<\/p>\n
See, I should have asked Rob. He knows all of this. You don\u2019t want to go Saks 5th Avenue on this sucker, okay? You\u2019re looking like, can I get some Goodwill furniture in there to lower my risk and get used to renting it out, seeing what demand is like, experiment with something you\u2019ve already got before you go put a bunch of money into something else if you possibly can.
If you can\u2019t make it work, it\u2019s still going to be a very good exercise to do a stress test, which I think you\u2019re very familiar with working in the corporate world. You guys are always going to be thinking, \u201cWhat could go wrong? If we put our money in this, if we take this road, how could that work out?\u201d I see the wheels are turning as we\u2019re talking.
So when we come back and have the next talk, I\u2019d like for you to come say, \u201cDavid, I looked at converting one of my units and I realized I don\u2019t know this, or this could work, or it\u2019s much easier than I thought.\u201d I want to hear the feedback you have when you consider doing it with an existing unit.<\/p>\n
Okay.<\/p>\n
Also, we\u2019re talking to Wendy, but anybody can do this with their portfolio. If they\u2019re thinking about, \u201cI want to become a short-term rental investor,\u201d you don\u2019t have to buy a short term rental. Definitely don\u2019t have to go to Scottsdale and buy one like Rob and I did. You can just take something you\u2019ve got, convert it to a short term rental and see if it works. And if it doesn\u2019t, maybe you lost a little bit of money, but it\u2019s okay. It\u2019s a paper cut. It\u2019s not an arterial bleed. That\u2019s what we\u2019re trying to avoid in real estate investing.<\/p>\n
Well, that, and if you already own a home, go sleep at your parents\u2019 house or at your brother\u2019s house or in your car-<\/p>\n
Rent your house out.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Exactly. Rent your house out and go somewhere else. Go camping for the weekend and find out if it works. There are a lot of ways to do an initial stress test.<\/p>\n
All right, Ms. St. Clair, thank you very much. We\u2019ll talk to you soon.
All right. Danny is a software engineer by day and a superhero by night, I mean, he owns several multi-family properties in the Sacramento area, which in my opinion makes him a superhero because I\u2019m a California kid, and he\u2019s chasing a life of financial freedom for himself and his daughter, which is very superhero-esque of you, Danny. You\u2019re also wearing flannel. That reminds me of Brandon Turner. So you\u2019re A okay in my book. Your struggle of the week is that you mentioned in your update, you\u2019re having a hard time pushing out of your comfort zone to make new connections. Tell us a little more about that. How\u2019s that been going?<\/p>\n
Yeah. So I\u2019m a pretty massive introvert, so reaching out to people and meeting new people is a challenge for me. I go through and I\u2019ve reached out on BiggerPockets. I try to work my network, but definitely, I think I\u2019d rather read a whole book than reach out to a couple people. And even though that reach out may just take a few minutes, just mentally, it\u2019s one of those things where I\u2019m super comfortable kind of being introverted more than extroverted.<\/p>\n
All right. I\u2019m going to throw it to Rob in a second here, but before I do, I\u2019m not going to give you practical advice. I\u2019m going to give you something coming out of left field. It\u2019s very clear to see that your introversion\u2026 I\u2019m super introverted myself, okay? You don\u2019t know it because when I get in the podcast, I flip this little switch behind my ear and I turn into Disneyland David. This is not it. Rob\u2019s been around me in person. He\u2019s like, \u201cWhat happened to you?\u201d He\u2019s like\u2026 It\u2019s completely different when I\u2019m in my natural state. I\u2019m a huge introvert. I\u2019m analytical. I read people. I look at things deeply, and I don\u2019t let you see what the heck is going on between my ears. And it\u2019s very unnerving when people see me in real life. So I can relate to what you\u2019re doing.
It is true that you have to force yourself out of your comfort zone, but rather than saying, \u201cJust go talk to people,\u201d that\u2019s the practical advice everyone always gives, I\u2019m going to encourage you to do something that is outside of your comfort zone that has nothing to do with talking to people. I want you to get comfortable being uncomfortable, but not by\u2026 I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m not going to take a claustrophobic and be like, \u201cGet inside a coffin and sit there for four hours, and when you come out, you\u2019ll be fine.\u201d No, you won\u2019t. You\u2019ll come out like a vegetable. I want you to work out in a different way than you used to work it out. Okay? If you\u2019re a weightlifter, I want you to go for a run. If you\u2019re a runner, I want you to go lift weights. I want you to consider signing up for a beginner\u2019s martial arts class that\u2019s just super introductory level. I don\u2019t want you to go into UFC gym and rolling around with some 22-year-old psychopaths, okay?
I want you to read, if you\u2019re used to Audible and listen to Audible, if you\u2019re used to reading. I want you to find something that\u2019s the opposite of how you are normally doing things and start very slow. This is not throw yourself into the deep end and just figure it out. Okay? I want you to get a little bit of exposure to using a different part of your brain or perceiving a situation differently than you normally do, and I want you to do your very best to make a habit out of doing that. If it\u2019s 15 minutes a day of reading, when you don\u2019t normally like to read. As an introvert, you probably don\u2019t mind reading, right?
If it\u2019s one thing that I started forcing myself to do is when I would go to Walmart or Safeway or a fast food restaurant or anything, I would look at the name tag of the person, and I would say, \u201cThank you, Bob. Thank you, Jennifer.\u201d And when you say someone\u2019s name like that, they\u2019d get, \u201cWhat?\u201d They catches them off guard, and it almost forces a conversation. I would force myself to be into those types of scenarios that broke me out of my typical, I\u2019m just going to observe you and not show anything of myself. So does that sound like something that you can commit to doing before we get into your actual situation?<\/p>\n
Yeah, I think I can do that. Even though you said it wasn\u2019t necessarily practical, I think you\u2019ve given some really good tips there and kind of ways that I can do that. So yeah, I can do that. I can commit to that.<\/p>\n
Yeah, you probably don\u2019t post on social media what you\u2019re doing or where you\u2019re going. Is that fair to say?<\/p>\n
Absolutely.<\/p>\n
Okay. Can I get you to put a post on Instagram or make an Instagram, if you don\u2019t have one, and not just say, \u201cThis is me and my sandwich\u201d? Do something. Put a video of you talking before you go into the gym or anything that you can think of that is not something that you would normally do, just do it in a very small dose.<\/p>\n
Okay. Makes sense. I\u2019ve been thinking about the online presence, especially as I\u2019m trying to scale and I\u2019ve got these other properties. I have all this collection of photos before and after, and kind of some stuff documented that I really should\u2026 I feel like I should be putting out there to kind of build the brand anyway, so that might align well with it.<\/p>\n
And every situation you can in life, do something a little bit different. All right, Rob, what do you think?<\/p>\n
Well, Dan, I just want to point out to you that you are in good company, man. I mean, it\u2019s like introverts, extroverts. It\u2019s a 5050 breakdown. I don\u2019t know what the actual breakdown is officially. I\u2019m sure that data is recorded somewhere, but we have so many listeners in the BiggerPockets community that also struggle with this, that also struggle with getting in their comfort zones.
So maybe even consider making a post about it. Do we have a BiggerPockets Facebook group? There\u2019s the forums, go make a post that\u2019s like, \u201cHey guys, I\u2019m naturally introverted. I have a tough time putting myself out there in real estate. Do I have any other introverts in the group? What have you done to overcome this?\u201d I\u2019ll try to give some advice here. It\u2019s tough because I\u2019m more of an extrovert, but I think probably trying to surround yourself with people that understand you is going to maybe have a bigger impact than you think.
I remember when I started my YouTube channel and it started to grow, I had nobody that I could talk to about my struggles or about anything that I was going through. I couldn\u2019t celebrate with certain\u2026 I couldn\u2019t talk about struggles or celebrations, really. I mean, no one really understood what I was going through. And I remember when I met other YouTubers, I went to a conference and I remember talking to other YouTubers and I was like, \u201cMan, this thing happened.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cThat happens to me all the time.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh my gosh.\u201d I felt so heard and so comfortable with people that were facing what I was facing.
And it\u2019s the same thing. I had that, and then a month after that, I went to an entrepreneurial conference. It was Cody Sanchez\u2019s conference, and it was a room full of entrepreneurs. And I started talking to them and talking about my struggles and how it\u2019s tough to balance life and business and being a family man and having kids, and they\u2019re like, \u201cMe too.\u201d And so I felt heard. And so it actually allowed me to grow a lot more in both the entrepreneurial space and the content creation space, meeting other people that struggle with what I struggle with, and celebrate what I celebrate.
So I think it actually might be beneficial to try to meet other introverts that struggle with it, because you could probably swap some war stories on that and be like, \u201cYeah, I struggle with this too.\u201d So I would try to connect with other people. That would be one. David\u2019s advice to you about going and basically putting yourself in situations like martial arts or whatever, I like that too. I will say that I\u2019m naturally extroverted, but I used to do improv and I hated doing improv in front of my peers. I was always really embarrassed to do that.
And so every Wednesday there was a jam we called it, where you could go and you could basically do improv on stage in front of a whole group of people that you didn\u2019t know. And I didn\u2019t tell my friends about it. I didn\u2019t tell anybody about it. I would just go and show up because no one knew who I was, and that the pressure was off when I knew that no one knew who I was. And so I think this advice of going and trying something new where you\u2019re in a group of people that don\u2019t know who you are will probably relieve you, right? Because if you were trying to be extroverted at work, you got the pressure of your peers \u201cjudging you,\u201d quote unquote, right? But when it\u2019s a group of people you don\u2019t know, stakes are a lot lower.
And that\u2019s my advice on that, those two things. Try something new with a group of people that you don\u2019t know. Try to basically surround yourself or connect with people that are also in your boat from a kind of getting out of your comfort zone, introversion standpoint. And I think doing those two things will be very helpful for you.
Oh, yes. I remember, one more thing. Sorry. I have a question actually, from a technicality standpoint, from an introversion thing. If I remember correctly, the way that you sort of recharge is by being alone in a group of people\u2026 alone away from people. Isn\u2019t that how your batteries recharge? Is that right?<\/p>\n
Yeah, largely. It\u2019s like I went to [inaudible 00:44:37] this year and then going out there and speaking to a lot of people and then going back to my hotel room in between breaks and kind of recharging was the way I did it. Yeah.<\/p>\n
So I was going to suggest that maybe don\u2019t put yourself out of your comfort zone when your battery is drained. So always do these new things like joining martial art, whatever those things are where you\u2019re sort of in a new group of people who don\u2019t know who you are, make sure to do that after you\u2019re fully charged and you\u2019re ready to do that. Because if you go after work, when you\u2019re just mentally drained and then you try to put yourself out of your comfort zone and meet new people, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s going to go well for you. I can\u2019t imagine that it would. So make sure that anytime that you push yourself out of your comfort zone, set yourself up by success, by basically letting your batteries charge up and then go for it.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s good advice there because definitely, especially being a full-time work, I can see myself trying to push it toward the end of the day and do that stuff, but it may not work out well if I just jump right into it.<\/p>\n
Yeah, human beings, I\u2019ve noticed, me included, I will just do the same thing that doesn\u2019t work harder over and over and over than try a new thing. It\u2019s very, very hard to get out of doing our normal thing, but we have the life we have right now because of the person we are right now. You\u2019re not going to have a different life unless you become a different person. And part of the journey of real estate is actually becoming a different and better version of you. So now that we\u2019ve shaken up your social life and given you some personal development advice, tell us, what was your homework?<\/p>\n
So my homework actually had a lot to do with what we just talked about, but Rob, you had assigned me finding some investors, in the Sacramento area, try to get contractor referrals, talk to agents. And you had this really cool tip around finding contractors using construction sites. And Dave, you had talked about\u2026 you connected me with Johnny, one of your agents who\u2019s awesome, and just kind of think about Rob\u2019s advice, and how do I apply it at other places.<\/p>\n
Yeah, we might be able to take you by one of my properties. Actually, now think about it, there\u2019s several of them that are in construction and you could probably see that might help a little bit too. I\u2019ll have to follow up with Johnny, or if you could tell Johnny to remind me, I\u2019d love you for that. All right. So that was the homework that we had. Give me something that you learned from it and give me something that you feel like maybe was left to be desired.<\/p>\n
So what did I learn? So I went through and I did do some BiggerPockets reach outs. It was a little hard to find folks, and maybe I just wasn\u2019t really using the search very well. Finding folks in that, that are outside of that small multi-family. It seems like, especially in the Sacramento area, that\u2019s the bulk of the members out there. So that was a little bit of a challenge.
There were some meetups that I had been to over the pandemic virtually that I remember some names from. So I\u2019ve reached out there and I\u2019m going to go connect with them in person in the coming week or so. So I think that worked out well. The construction site, so when I actually did, I went out to Sacramento as part of this, kind of went through, and pulled a list of properties and kind of go visit my properties and see how things are going. And so I happened to pick a really rainy day, so I went around and kind of walked some properties. But in terms of construction sites, I wasn\u2019t able to find anything. Maybe everybody was off that day or staying home from the rain.<\/p>\n
All right, Rob, what are you thinking?<\/p>\n
I just heard Pace Morby say this phrase not too long ago, which is if you haven\u2019t called once, you haven\u2019t called twice. And I think what that means is sometimes you got to just keep trying it because it\u2019s like the method, theoretically a sound. We know people have had success doing this. So sometimes, yeah, you may drive around, not find a construction site. You may try to reach out to people that didn\u2019t give you that recommendation, but doesn\u2019t mean that you can\u2019t try again. I mean, I think all of real estate in general is a numbers game. It\u2019s reps, right? Yeah. Very rarely does stuff work out the first time. It does for some people like David Greene, but for me, I got to keep trying because I fail over and over and over again. But for some people like David, just naturally happens because he\u2019s the king. He\u2019s the gold king over there, the golden Greene.<\/p>\n
So gold, it\u2019s green.<\/p>\n
So gold, it\u2019s green.<\/p>\n
Danny, as you\u2019re hearing this, I\u2019m sure that has to feel discouraging and many other people listening are going to be thinking the same thing. I wanted financial freedom. I didn\u2019t want to become a professional networker that has to call a hundred people a day. If I had to do that, it\u2019s not worth it. I\u2019ll just stay in the job I\u2019m at. It\u2019s okay to admit those are things that we think and we feel, all right?
What I want to get at here is that Pace is a human being who is wired to like talking. He is a good talker. It\u2019s why he became a well-known person in our space. Rob is, like he said, extroverted. He enjoys talking. He enjoys meeting people. He can talk to a potted plant, but he\u2019s constantly like, \u201cDude, why don\u2019t you open up more? Why don\u2019t you talk more? People think you\u2019re rude? They\u2019re intimidated by you.\u201d It\u2019s my personality, right? He\u2019s easier for Rob to do some of this stuff than it would be for me, or for you, or for some other humans.<\/p>\n
I mean, I didn\u2019t say that. I didn\u2019t say that exactly.<\/p>\n
No, he wouldn\u2019t because he\u2019s too nice, right? He\u2019s extroverted, but I understood what he was getting at. That\u2019s where it was going, but he\u2019s right. That\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to say. The point here is that it\u2019s not going to feel this horrible for you forever. As your personality changes and adapts and grows, the weights get lighter. Maybe I shouldn\u2019t say it\u2026 The weights don\u2019t get lighter, we get stronger, and they feel lighter. It doesn\u2019t suck forever, and that\u2019s why I\u2019m giving you the advice to start breaking out of your comfort zone in other ways, because this is what it\u2019s going to take to be successful as a real estate investor in our area. And you don\u2019t want it to just suck. You don\u2019t want to be like, \u201cWhat it takes to be successful is miserable. All I can do is eat kale every single day.\u201d
No, there\u2019s a point where kale doesn\u2019t taste that bad, and you can put salad dressing on it. And then there\u2019s like other things you can introduce into your diet so that it\u2019s not just kale all the time, but when you\u2019re used to donuts every day, the thought of eating healthy is miserable. It doesn\u2019t stay that way. It gets easier. And so I just want to encourage you and everyone who\u2019s in this position where we\u2019re saying, \u201cYou got to call twice, not just once,\u201d these calls don\u2019t suck forever. At a certain point, you will adapt, I promise you. And it will even start to, in a crazy way, become fun.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s good, David.<\/p>\n
Got to get those reps in.<\/p>\n
Yeah, but start slow.<\/p>\n
Sure. Yeah. But just the analogy of, yeah, the weight doesn\u2019t get lighter, you just get stronger. That pretty much is how it is. I mean, I\u2019ve just recently started making cold calls again. And I think another thing for me that I\u2019m learning is like you\u2019re never above anything. I have teams. I have systems. I\u2019ve got\u2026 I\u2019m success. I\u2019ve happy with where I\u2019m at in life, but I\u2019m still cold calling.
I actually met with the landlord yesterday. I walked to his apartment complex and I pitched him on a rental arbitrage deal, and that\u2019s not something I would\u2019ve done one or two months ago, but it\u2019s something that I\u2019m doing now because I want to learn that to teach people and stuff like that. So for me, I was able to say, \u201cOkay, I was naturally a little nervous to do it because I\u2019m like, \u2018I\u2019m going to suck at this.\u2019 I haven\u2019t really pitched myself in a long time, but I know that by doing it over and over and over again, it gets easier,\u201d and it is. I already feel pretty good at it because it\u2019s like a skill that you can learn pretty quickly if you dedicate time to it.<\/p>\n
There we go. Okay, Danny, your most important next step is going to be different than some of the other people, because I don\u2019t think that there\u2019s practical steps that you need to be taking as the same as with Wendy and with Philip. I think yours are going to be more, like I said, at least from my side, I want you to do something out of your comfort zone, but not wild and crazy. Okay? I don\u2019t want you to go walk on hot coals or get in a pit full of poisonous snakes and force yourself to keep your heart rate low. I want you to consistently do small things. So if this was a weight room, don\u2019t get in there and try to bench press 200 pounds, go to the gym and work out every muscle group one time. You\u2019re going to be sore, so don\u2019t blow it out, and don\u2019t look for results right away.
You\u2019re just looking for a habit you\u2019re trying to build, which will lead to momentum, and that momentum that we are creating is going to be what crushes through the obstacles that are in front of you. If you try to go too big, you\u2019re going to get discouraged and you\u2019re going to quit the whole thing, and that\u2019s how anybody would be. If you go to the gym on your first day and you blow it out, you\u2019re so sore the next day, you never want to go back and you don\u2019t, right?
So your homework from my point is I want you to come back and I would love it if you had a list of four or five things that you said, \u201cI hated it. I didn\u2019t want to do it. It\u2019s not what I like to do, but I made myself do it and here\u2019s what I learned.\u201d<\/p>\n
Sounds good. I will commit to that.<\/p>\n
Even tinier step here, man, just really just a very easy softball that you can throw here. Just try to start a conversation with your cashier or anyone that you interact with that you typically wouldn\u2019t, right? Go to Trader Joe\u2019s. Everybody that works at the cash register at Trader Joe\u2019s will chat with you about their childhood if you ask them any question. Go put yourself in a situation like that. Ask them how their day is going, what they got going on this weekend, and I promise, they\u2019ll probably honestly pull the conversation out of you.<\/p>\n
I like it. Dave, you mentioned, you had a switch. I shaved my head and I still haven\u2019t found that switch, but you thinking the reps here will make that grow out of there?<\/p>\n
It sort of makes its way to the surface over time. First, you shave, then you wait, and it rises to the surface, and then yes, the reps will absolutely reveal. Sometimes, I had to lose a little bit of head fat to reveal where that button was, but I had to get in there and talk to people to burn those calories.
I\u2019m not exaggerating to you, Danny. I was so bad that when I was holding open houses as a new agent, I had to bring Krista with me and she would go introduce herself to the person and then say, \u201cThis is David. He\u2019s the listing agent.\u201d And I would shake their hand, and then I had a little bit of momentum that I could be like, \u201cI\u2019m David, what is your name?\u201d And then I just hope to God the conversation went somewhere because I just couldn\u2019t jumpstart it.
And I was a cop for eight years. I could bust into houses and scream at people or go approach a person out of nowhere. I could make conversation with someone stalling for time, waiting for backup to arrive because it was really dangerous. But something about that salesy environment, I was like, hated it, right? I just closed off and it was very, very, very difficult. So I just made tiny improvements. I brought Krista, and then after the third or fourth open house, she went with me and I shook her hand. This is embarrassing. I sound like\u2026 It\u2019s just terrible. But this was the reality.
When I would have to call people from the open house, I wouldn\u2019t know what to say. So I had another agent sit there and whisper in my ear, like Romeo and Juliet, \u201cAsk them if they liked the house,\u201d and I would, \u201cDid you like the house?\u201d And then they would reply and she would whisper it. They would have to wait for me to reply back.
That\u2019s what it took for me to build the momentum. And now like Rob said, I could call somebody up and just start a conversation. And I\u2019m actually, I teach people how to control conversations through psychological tactics because I had to learn all of that. So there\u2019s absolutely hope. It will not suck this way forever. I don\u2019t talk about it very often because most of the podcasts are not about me, but I absolutely relate to where you\u2019re at. And there\u2019s so many people that listen to this and they\u2019re like\u2026 It\u2019s like they\u2019re at the gym. They want to go work out, but they\u2019re too scared and nervous, so they\u2019re looking in the window at the people working out like, \u201cSomeday, I wish that could be me.\u201d And they\u2019re doing that with real estate investing or real estate sales or networking or the meetup that they want to go to, but they\u2019re too shy.
Just find some way to bring someone with you or just get in the gym and walk around and then leave, even if you don\u2019t ever touch the metaphorical machine. It\u2019s okay to start slow. The goal is build momentum, not just get a tangible result right off the bat. All right?
So thank you very much, Danny. We\u2019re going to be following up with you soon. Stay encouraged about what you\u2019re doing. You made some good progress. Make sure that you tell Johnny that you want to go see one of my properties and maybe I\u2019ll meet you in person when I go out and check on how the progress is going.<\/p>\n
That\u2019d be great. Thank you both.<\/p>\n
All right.<\/p>\n
You got it.<\/p>\n
And that was our last guest. Rob, what\u2019d you think about today\u2019s show?<\/p>\n
Really good, man. A very large spectrum of SOTWs, struggles of the week. SOTA was what I was calling them. That\u2019s the new term that I brand it, but it\u2019s really nice. Everybody can be going through a very similar journey, but through very different struggles. And I think it\u2019s really nice to kind of work through all that because yeah, man, it\u2019s just new. Real estate is so cool because it creates very unique situations that you haven\u2019t heard about, that everyone\u2019s got a very different story that they\u2019re going through. So yeah, it\u2019s really nice to catch up with everybody.<\/p>\n
And I want to give a shout-out to all of the people that were guests today that volunteered to take this very public journey in front of us and the entire BiggerPockets audience. It takes some more courage than people might think.
And it reminds me of one of my favorite poems that\u2019s hanging in my office. It\u2019s Teddy Roosevelt\u2019s, the Man in the Arena. And I\u2019m going to close out by reading that. It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood who strives valiantly, who errs, who come short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds, who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.
For each of our guests today, they are the man in the arena. They are taking this public journey and out there trying to do it. And I commend them for not sitting back and just being critical of others or saying, \u201cThere is no chance.\u201d And I am proud to be a part of this journey with them. This is David Greene for Rob, my safe space, Abasolo, signing off.<\/p>\n