\n<\/p>\n
The last housing crash<\/strong><\/a> wasn\u2019t a good time for most Americans. And for Brent Daniels<\/strong>, it was the worst time of his life<\/strong>. Before the crash, he was riding high, making six figures, living in a big house with a new car, and building a real estate brokerage with eighty employees<\/strong>. Then, the market started to tank<\/strong>, and so did Brent\u2019s revenue. He had to let go of all eighty workers, watch his car get repossessed<\/strong>, and witness his wife leaving him<\/strong>. But that wasn\u2019t all. The ten-year office lease for his brokerage was still due, and the owners shackled him with seven hundred thousand dollars of debt<\/strong>.<\/p>\n Brent hit rock bottom<\/strong> as his reputation lay ruined, forced to stay with friends to survive. He slowly got back into real estate, making a few hundred dollars here and there. But then, one day, Brent stumbled upon an <\/strong>assignment fee<\/strong><\/a>. He watched one of his friends walk away with a five-figure check simply for flipping a contract to an investor. Thus, the wholesaling<\/strong><\/a> fire was sparked, and Brent gave up his dreams of becoming a top agent or real estate investor.<\/p>\n He hit the phones, finding as many motivated sellers<\/strong><\/a> as possible. From there, Brent shares how he built a business that does over a million dollars a year<\/strong> with just four team members, why he doesn\u2019t invest heavily in real estate, and the exact script he uses<\/strong> to get hefty wholesale fees <\/strong>from motivated sellers. Now, with a net worth of over eight million dollars<\/strong>, Brent has proven that no comeback is impossible<\/strong> and that the best foundation for success is rock bottom.<\/p>\n David: Brent: David: Henry: David: Henry: David: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Henry: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: David: Brent: Henry: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Henry: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Brent: Henry: Brent: Henry: David: Brent: David: Brent: David: Henry: David: Brent: David: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Check out our\u00a0<\/em>sponsor page<\/em><\/a>!<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast show 731.<\/p>\n
I think a lot of people just hold on to leads too much because they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, it\u2019s a lead. I love this lead. I\u2019m going to coddle it and I\u2019m going to keep it here and I\u2019m not going to push them too hard and I\u2019m going to be really nice and I\u2019m going to bring them sweets and I\u2019m going to stop by and I\u2019m not going to pre-qualify them too much. When they\u2019re ready, they\u2019ll tell me their price and we\u2019ll make a deal.\u201d And that never happens. You need to have a conversation of what is the condition, timeline, motivation, price, and the timeline is the most important thing in that because if they\u2019ve made the decision that they\u2019re going to sell that property, that\u2019s who you really get in front of.<\/p>\n
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Green, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast, the best, the biggest, and the baddest real estate investing podcast in the world. Here today with my co-host, Henry Washington, where we bring you another amazing interview today with Brent Daniels. Brent runs a wholesaling business that is very successful, talks to a lot of people, and frequently puts deals together that other people would let die. And in today\u2019s show, we hear about his rags to riches story and a lot of other information. Henry, first off, good morning and second, what were some of your favorite parts of today\u2019s interview?<\/p>\n
Hey, man, good morning. Happy to be here. Man, what an incredible story. I think we all love to hear a rags to riches story, because it shows us all what we\u2019re capable of, what\u2019s possible. And what I love about Brent\u2019s story is, man, he went through some lows, didn\u2019t he? And so it\u2019s a wonderful story about how to prepare yourself for what could be the unknown, how to pivot your business if you need to, and then how not to give up but rebuild in a smarter way and leveraging all of the skills. Because all Brett did was leverage the skills that he had built prior to everything falling apart. He just leveraged them in a different way to rebuild himself bigger and better than ever.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s exactly right. And if you\u2019re following what\u2019s going on in the economy, then you should recognize it\u2019s very likely, I don\u2019t know we\u2019ll see it to the scale of what we saw in \u201908 through 2010, but it\u2019s very likely we\u2019re going to see similar things happening to what happened to Brent. So, you better start preparing yourself now for what to do when they happen and how to play those cards, because there\u2019s a lot of people that could be going through very similar circumstances to what today\u2019s guest went through himself. Also, you want to make sure you listen all the way to the end in this one, because you will get to see what a marriage between Henry and I would look like in an alternative universe. Today\u2019s quick tip is brought to you by Henry Washington.<\/p>\n
Yes, today\u2019s quick tip is to remember to stay grounded. We talk about in this episode, epiphany points, epiphany moments. And you may have already had your epiphany moment when you\u2019re listening to this. It may be why you\u2019re listening to this. Difficult times happen, challenges will happen, but if you can remember back to that moment when you knew you had to make a change, or you knew you were at your lowest and you can see that you\u2019re not there anymore and you may not be where you want to be, but you\u2019re not where you were when you had that epiphany moment, it will help you realize that things are better than you think they are, and you\u2019re moving in the right direction. So, make sure you write down those epiphany moments. Make sure you reference them often.<\/p>\n
Great point, Henry. Thank you for that. Let\u2019s bring in Brent. Today\u2019s guest on the podcast is Brent Daniels. Brent is a wholesaler who runs a wholesaling business. He\u2019s been grossing over a million dollars for the last six years, has hacked cold calling, and is here to tell you how you can too. And as a fun fact, he was a Hall of Fame football player at his college, and I thought he was a professional wrestler. Brent, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n
Well, I am excited. Listen, this is the greatest business of all time, this is the greatest real estate podcast of all time, so I think we\u2019re going to have a lot of fun. I love you, David. I love Henry. I\u2019m honored to be here and excited to share my story and hopefully give some tactics for people that are listening.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. One of my favorite parts about your story that I\u2019ve heard so far is the rags to riches element of it. I mean, you went from the lowest of low\u2019s. No offense, it just sounds like horrible, horrible situation, and just fought your way out of that thing to be at a point where so many people are trying to get to right now. And I love these stories, because when you get from a point you don\u2019t want to be to a point you do, breadcrumbs get left, and then other people can follow that path.
And as more people make it out of the bottom and get to the top, it makes the path that much more clear for everyone who\u2019s coming behind. So, we\u2019re going to do our best to try to identify those breadcrumbs today so our listeners can follow your journey. Before we get into it, is there anything specific about how you had it and you lost it and you got it back that you would say sort of highlights what your journey has been like? Any lesson or element or motto that you took or was formed during those times?<\/p>\n
Yeah, I remember I was driving and my son was maybe 16 months old, this is 2013, and he was crying. He had his fifth ear infection, and those are just horrible, horrible. And so I was trying to listen to the Audible of Dale Carnegie, the guy that wrote Think and Grow Rich. He had another book called How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And I\u2019m listening to this book, I\u2019ve got a crying baby, and I\u2019m like I\u2019ve reflected a lot, I\u2019ve done a lot of self-work. So, I need to go out and do something. I need to go out and find some way to turn this whole thing around.
And I think it was that moment right there that was like, \u201cOkay, I need to just go out and I need to go into the streets. I need to find property owners that have these older rundown beat up houses and I need to talk to them.\u201d And that\u2019s what changed everything for me. And up until that point, it was just a disaster. I mean I screwed up everything that I could financially and emotionally I think. It\u2019s this walnut size thing in my brain that I go back to whenever I think I\u2019m really cool, or I\u2019ve made a bunch, or I try to get over my skis a little bit, I go back to that day listening to that Audible book and be like, \u201cWhat? Oh my gosh, life is so much better now.\u201d<\/p>\n
That\u2019s funny, man, because for me their epiphany moments. I had a very similar epiphany moment in my life. Mine unfortunately was a panic attack, but it\u2019s a panic attack that changed my life. And I always look back at that as this kind of place marker in my life where everything started to turn around. And so I love that you share that. You said this was about 2013?<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
And you had never done a deal then?<\/p>\n
No, I had been in real estate since 2004, so I had read Rich Dad Poor Dad in 2003, and I was like, that was it, right? I mean I feel like there\u2019s two paths there. You read it and you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, real estate\u2019s going to be my life.\u201d Or you read it and you\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t care about this.\u201d I really think that. And so I got a real estate license. There wasn\u2019t YouTube, there wasn\u2019t podcasts, there wasn\u2019t BiggerPockets, there wasn\u2019t anything out there to really give me direction. So, I didn\u2019t know the vocabulary, I didn\u2019t know what was going on. All I knew was that I had to learn about real estate and there was real estate school, so I\u2019ll just go to that and get a license. So, I did that and it was great. It was great. It was 2004, you know what I mean?
The market was going bananas. Everything was exciting. I was learning how to help people buy and sell, and I have a lot of family here in Phoenix. And so they wanted to move and take advantage of their appreciation. So, when you\u2019re 22, 23 years old and you make $100,000 hundred, you\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m the greatest real estate entrepreneur of all time. The good times are going to go on forever. This is going to be incredible.\u201d And I started the natural progression, that is I wanted to open up a brokerage that would be an investment\/real estate brokerage. And I was told, \u201cWell, you could buy properties and these loans, I mean, you don\u2019t even have to put much down. And they start at 1% or 2%, and they stay there that way for a while. And when they adjust,\u201d and I had no idea what adjustable rate mortgages were, \u201cwhen they adjust, you just sell the properties and life\u2019s good.\u201d
And that\u2019s what I did. And in 2007\/\u201908, I bought five properties in 2009, 10. Lost them all. Had a really nice Mercedes, had a really nice Range Rover. Those got repoed. Nothing is crazier than seeing some burly dude with flashing yellow lights, pull your car that you put all your pride and ego into, from your driveway and just leave. So, that was really rough. That was tough, but the tougher part was right before it changed in January of 2008, I signed an office lease for 10 years with a personal guarantee for 9,000 square feet for this brokerage that I was building. And October of 2008, economic world melted, no deals would sell traditionally on the market, short sales still couldn\u2019t be negotiated. And in Phoenix, we dropped 67% in value.<\/p>\n
Wow, man. That\u2019s intense, because it sounds like what you did was you learned about real estate, decided this was going to be your life, you went all in, you had some success, and then you built this team. A brokerage is a big deal. It\u2019s not something small. Talk to us a little bit about what that brokerage looked like. How many people did you have? What did you put in to build that?<\/p>\n
Yeah, we had 80 people and I had four other partners. We had office staff and we had everything. And when income is not coming in and you\u2019ve got huge expenses, it goes down fast. And everybody looked to me and the other owners as leaders, and we\u2019re scrambling. We\u2019re 29 years old, we\u2019re 28 years old, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on. I\u2019ve never gone through anything like this. So, that was the hardest thing. That was the hardest thing, Henry, was looking people in the eye and telling them, \u201cWe can\u2019t keep you around anymore,\u201d and having to let everybody go. And that\u2019s really influenced my business principles to this day. Big time.<\/p>\n
I mean that\u2019s a big, for lack of a better term, that\u2019s a big gut punch, right? Not just to your personal, seeing your cars get taken out of your driveway, but we talked a little bit about this a week ago. What was it like or what the most painful part? You had to let how many people go? And then what was the turning point in that downturn that made you go, \u201cOkay, this isn\u2019t the end for me?\u201d<\/p>\n
Yeah, that took a long time. There was a big hangover after that experience, but we had five staff members full-time and we had 70 agents at the time that all had to scatter to other brokerages or get out of the business. And that office lease that I signed as a personal guarantee, the interesting thing is, in case anybody didn\u2019t know this, but if you don\u2019t pay that, they sue you. So, here I am, I\u2019ve never been near a lawsuit before and the attorneys coming and saying, \u201cYou owe $742,000 to this property owner.\u201d And I was like, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing I can do.\u201d
And then my business partners left, went to California, took the books, so I couldn\u2019t file taxes on time, so I couldn\u2019t do a bankruptcy. So, this thing dragged out and it was like a weight on my shoulders. And one, it was hugely embarrassing because you build up a reputation in the real estate business. It\u2019s not a huge community. And so that all went down and losing all the investment properties and having nothing in the accounts. And then my wife at the time was like, \u201cThis is bananas. You\u2019ve got an anchor around your neck. I\u2019m out of here.\u201d So, you throw a divorce in on top of that, and it turned real ugly internally. Really, really, really ugly.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s something I think we should take a moment to highlight, because that happened to you, but it doesn\u2019t sound like you made any huge mistakes. It wasn\u2019t like you made an obvious bad decision. You didn\u2019t get into drugs, you didn\u2019t go buy completely stupid things. I mean you did what most people do when they\u2019re making decent money. It\u2019s very easy, very easy to do this, and it\u2019s easy for this to happen to anybody. That\u2019s the first point I just want to highlight for everybody listening. The second is that\u2019s why pivoting is so important. You\u2019ve got to be okay building it, losing it, and building it again, because you don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen in the environment around you. You don\u2019t know what the government\u2019s going to do. You don\u2019t know what macroeconomic policies are going to do. We don\u2019t know if we\u2019re going to be going to war.
These things happened quick. No one knew that COVID was coming. Nobody knew when September 11th was going to hit. Something could happen the day that this podcast drops. We don\u2019t know. It\u2019s this ability to be able to look at the information and adapt that makes you successful, versus just give me a blueprint, tell me what to do. I just want to take four steps and I want to build up some money. So, as you\u2019re in this situation where things are very ugly internally as well as your personal life, I mean to now have your partner leaving you at your lowest, I can\u2019t only imagine what that\u2019s like.
You already feel like crap. Your self-esteem is taking a hit. You turn to the person who\u2019s supposed to be in the trenches with you and there\u2019s nothing there. They\u2019re like, \u201cPeace. I\u2019m looking for greener pastures somewhere else.\u201d It\u2019s just you. What kind of thoughts were going through your mind? When you would wake up in the day, what was your day like?<\/p>\n
I was paralyzed, I\u2019ll be honest with you. It\u2019s not like I was like, \u201cOh, you know what? I read this book and I met this person and everything just turned around and I got back on the saddle and I was riding.\u201d It was like five years of just figuring out how to get by. A good friend of mine, Dustin Monger, who\u2019s an incredible real estate investor, he let me stay. He had a rental property that he was in, and it was just him and his dog. So, he let me stay in his room there. It wasn\u2019t a couch. It\u2019s not that couch story that seems so popular. But I moved all my stuff out of my 4,000 square foot house and I was left with just a few boxes and my bed and I moved in there.
And I was able to get an opportunity with a Remax brokerage that was selling all the REOs, the bank owned properties, and the market went way down in Phoenix and these properties were like 40,000, 50,000. And I was the guy that was answering the sign calls. So, people would call up just on the streets, \u201cHey, I want to see this house.\u201d And so all day, every day I\u2019d have to drive around town in this beat up old Lexus that my dad gave me a 2000 ES 300 Lexus that was like sand colored, you know what I mean? That had just had terrible hail damage. And I\u2019m riding around in this thing and showing properties and making maybe like 500 bucks, 1,000 bucks after splits trying to do that.
And then as soon as I\u2019d get my head above water a little bit, I\u2019d get a call from the guy\u2019s attorney and they\u2019d be like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re going to do a financial review. Come in and give us whatever excess that you have.\u201d And it felt like I was going nowhere. And then that\u2019s where it led up to 2013 where I\u2019m listening to How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. I still have it on my Audible. I mean I haven\u2019t listened to it since then. And I decided, you know what, I\u2019m going to just go out and I\u2019m going to knock doors. I\u2019m going to just go out. I know there\u2019s areas, I know this pocket here of properties there\u2019s a lot of fixing and flippers that love this area. It\u2019s still really popular.
So, I\u2019m going to just go see if I can find some opportunities and hope that if I bring it to an investor, they\u2019ll give me a 3% commission. And that\u2019s what I started doing. And that\u2019s how I found my first deal was I knocked on a house and Margie answered. She didn\u2019t want to sell her house, but Carol, the gal down the street, she was a caretaker for it, it was a vacant property and they lived in New York and it was filled with stuff and they didn\u2019t know what they wanted to do. And she gave me an name. She goes, \u201cLet me call her and get the permission for you to call her.\u201d And I said, \u201cOkay.\u201d
She gave me a name, address and phone number. I put that deal together and earned the commission on that. And I realized at that moment, if you give me a name, address and phone number of somebody that owns an ugly house or is in an ugly situation, I can get myself out of this thing. I could do anything. I could really build a successful business. This business and wholesaling and having conversations with property owners that don\u2019t have their properties on the market changed my life. I mean absolutely changed my life. Now we\u2019ve done almost $10 million in income from that, a lot of which I\u2019ve kept because I didn\u2019t build a huge team. Again, I kept it really small.<\/p>\n
You went the jet ski model there, but a powerful jet ski it sounds like. So, once you got exposed to wholesaling and you saw what the profit margins look like and how you could do this without all of the baggage that comes from running a traditional brokerage, what were your next steps for picking up steam and building momentum in that business?<\/p>\n
So, I realized that door knocking in Phoenix was great for my tan and for my waistline, but I was melting out there. It was really hot. Door knocking in August in Arizona is brutal. And I was like, \u201cI need to find air conditioning. I need to be able to get the phone numbers.\u201d And the brokerage that I had joined after Remax had skip tracing. They had this account called LexusNexus. And so we could just put in addresses and they\u2019d give us the phone numbers and then we\u2019d just call them up.
And so I would just drive around town and find the ugliest properties and write down their address. I would just write them down on a pad of paper and a pen, and I\u2019d go back and I\u2019d pull their phone number and I\u2019d just call them and fumble and stumble in the beginning and then kind of figured out a good script that was effective to make people not too afraid to talk to a stranger. And then that\u2019s what really led to the success, because it didn\u2019t cost me anything.<\/p>\n
No, man, I think that\u2019s phenomenal, because I literally have this same conversation with people about all of real estate is that what you learned is that this isn\u2019t a real estate business, it is a people business. It wasn\u2019t that you were going out and you were finding houses, you were going out and you were finding situations that were attached to houses and then figuring out how to solve those problems. But what\u2019s super cool is that you didn\u2019t have this formal training, you didn\u2019t have some grand plan laid out. You just went and knocked on doors and talked to people. And that seems extremely intimidating for a lot of people for a lot of reasons.
So, what gave you the confidence to just go knock on a door and have those conversations? And then talk to us a little bit about some of the myths that you\u2019ve discovered about knocking on a door and having a conversation about this and how you overcome? Because you said you developed the script, but I\u2019m sure you developed that script because you knocked on a lot of doors and talked to a lot of people. So, what did that process look like of you going from knocking on a door and fumbling a conversation, to developing a script and understanding how to have these conversations with people?<\/p>\n
Yeah, I love it. They say rock bottom is incredible because it\u2019s a strong foundation. I mean it truly is. What I learned is there\u2019s only a certain amount of distressed property owners in a market. And I talked to Steve Trang about this, and I\u2019ve looked at some of the census and it says 6% to 10% of the real estate market is in distress at all times. So, I didn\u2019t focus on the 94%, I focused on the 6% that were either in distress because of the condition of the property, emotional or financial distress. Those are the three kind of buckets. And so in the beginning, I just looked for ugly houses, just basic, just not even thinking, just looked for ugly houses and eventually they have to sell to somebody. They\u2019re just not financeable for the most part because they\u2019re just in rough condition.
So, they need to take a cash as is offer. And so what I learned first was really laser focus on properties that are in distress. That was number one, because you can waste a lot of time trying to convince somebody that has a beautiful house to sell their property at a discount. It is a waste of time. You\u2019re never going to convince anybody to do anything, and you\u2019re going to go through a lot of heartache having conversations that don\u2019t really go anywhere because people should sell them retail. So, that\u2019s not what I\u2019m talking about. So, you have to filter that down.
The second thing that I found out was in a distressed situation, they\u2019re on Hell Island, and they want to get to Heaven Island, and there\u2019s certain bridges to cross to be able to get there. And I had to go through all those bridges and break down those bridges before it came to my offer. \u201cSo, why don\u2019t you list this property?\u201d \u201cWell, I hate realtors and I\u2019m embarrassed and my dogs will bite them and things will happen, and I don\u2019t want to list my property.\u201d \u201cRight. Okay, well, why don\u2019t you rent it out?\u201d \u201cWell, I don\u2019t like tenants.\u201d \u201cWhy don\u2019t you fix it up yourself?\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t have money.\u201d \u201cWhy doesn\u2019t the family use this as a family rental?\u201d \u201cWell, all the family hates each other and we don\u2019t want to do it.\u201d
So, you go through all these different bridges that would cross them over to getting rid of this distress, until you get to that cash as is offer that we offer as a wholesale offer.<\/p>\n
I love that. Because what you\u2019re doing, essentially, when you\u2019re having those types of conversations, it\u2019s not just that you\u2019re showing them that your option is a good option for them, but you\u2019re building trust along the way. Because every option you\u2019re showing them actually involves somebody other than you making money in that transaction. Would you say that part of your ability to be able to build trust with the sellers in distress situations had anything to do with the fact that you may have gone through some distress situations back when you had the repossessions and a lot of the issues you were having?<\/p>\n
100%. And listen, if there\u2019s a better option for them, I want them to go with that better option, because they\u2019re going to do it anyway, right? I mean somebody\u2019s going to talk to them, they\u2019re going to talk to a friend or an attorney or an agent or somebody that\u2019s going to give them a better option to make more. You know what I mean? So, yes, it is, because I went through that and I understand and can have empathy from a real life, real experience, but there\u2019s no trickery in this business. You know what I mean? It has to be the best option for them, or they\u2019re going to cancel the deal, or they\u2019re just not going to sign the deed to transfer title to somebody. So, when I look at it, and what I discovered is there\u2019s three things. There\u2019s speed, convenience, and price.
And the sellers only get to pick two of them. So, if they want speed and convenience, then they have to come down on that price because that\u2019s how you do it. That\u2019s how do inspections and don\u2019t do appraisals and buy it as is and there\u2019s not any repairs. So, when we\u2019re talking to people, talking to these property owners, we go, \u201cOkay, listen, do you want to trade potential equity in this property for speed and convenience? If not, go list the property. Go list it. Go rent it out again, go do whatever else you want.\u201d And it shocks people, that people go, \u201cNo, nobody would ever do that.\u201d
It happens every single second of every minute of every hour of every day in the real estate business, is somebody is trading potential equity for speed and convenience.<\/p>\n
That is a brilliant strategy when talking to the seller. And I know a lot of people would be afraid to bring it up because their thoughts would be, \u201cWell, I don\u2019t want to tempt them with the idea that they could take this to a real estate agent, because then they\u2019re going to.\u201d The reality is they know that that\u2019s an option. There\u2019s this unspoken battle going on when there\u2019s a negotiation, there\u2019s always unspoken things. Now what the person with the property is thinking is, \u201cI want all three. I want speed, I want convenience, and I want price.\u201d
And they\u2019re trying to navigate this relationship with you or whoever the person is they\u2019re negotiating with, into getting all three things and they\u2019re naive. It\u2019s not going to happen. You understand, well, there\u2019s three things here, and this rule of three, whatever that is, it comes up all the time. It\u2019s like that with contractors. It\u2019s like that with lenders. Is this something that you learned from someone else or is this something that just thousands of repetitions of these conversations led you to realizing this is the way to get to the conclusion?<\/p>\n
First of all, I learned that from Todd Toback and Tom Krol, and they\u2019re fantastic. I mean when they told me that, it totally made sense. So, it\u2019s not original at all, but from a scaffolding of any conversation with a property owner, if anybody\u2019s nervous because they haven\u2019t talked to a lot of them and they just don\u2019t feel like they know the right questions to ask, it really comes down to pre-qualifying based on the four pillars, which is what\u2019s the condition of the property? What\u2019s their timeline to sell this property? What\u2019s the motivation? And what price do they want? So, the more that I can ask questions around those four things and pull those out of this property owner, the more qualified lead I have. And the more qualified lead I have, the more that I can focus on these people that actually have potential of doing business with me.
And if they don\u2019t have potential of doing business with me, I get rid of them. I move on with my life. But because you talk to so many people out there when you\u2019re being proactive, you get all of these unbelievable people that filter through, and those are the deals that you actually do. So, I think a lot of people just hold on to leads too much because they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, it\u2019s a lead. I love this lead. I\u2019m going to coddle it and I\u2019m going to keep it here, and I\u2019m not going to push them too hard and I\u2019m going to be really nice and I\u2019m going to bring them sweets and I\u2019m going to stop by and I\u2019m not going to pre-qualify them too much. When they\u2019re ready, they\u2019ll tell me their price and we\u2019ll make a deal. And that never happens.
You need to have the conversation of what is the condition, timeline, motivation, price, and the timeline is the most important thing in that, because if they\u2019ve made the decision that they\u2019re going to sell that property, that\u2019s who you really get in front of. That\u2019s who you really dig in and find out what their situation is and how you can help solve whatever problem that they have. And then that keeps you really focused on the hottest leads that you have in your business. And that\u2019s how you get the consistency to close these deals and get really big deals.<\/p>\n
Awesome. So, it sounds like you discovered wholesaling when you did a deal. You realized that finding distress, talking to people, is helping you find these deals. You found the people who were going to take the deals off of your hands, generate the income. And so like any good business at this point, it then becomes a question of scale, repeatability. How do I find a way to repeat this? And then really kind of get back to where you were prior to \u201908, which is building a business and a team around it. So, you\u2019ve absolutely done that. So talk to us about that transition. What does your business look like today? How did you go from where you were at this point and scale to where you are? And then talk to us a little bit about some of these numbers. What is it that this business is producing for you and how is it different from your business in \u201908?<\/p>\n
I love it. So, once I did that first deal, I\u2019m going to dedicate my professional life to this, honestly, and so from nine to noon every single day, I would just call homeowners. Nine to noon every single day and try to have as many conversations as possible and find as many opportunities as possible. And then that led to doing a bunch of deals, which actually I was able to have a healthy bank account. Actually, BiggerPockets was a huge part of this, because there was a BiggerPockets meetup group at Dave & Buster\u2019s at Tempe Marketplace that I went to. And I invited everybody to come to a Super Saturday, because I was tired of people just kind of being around and just getting theory and staying in an education mode. I was like, \u201cGuys, I want to invite everybody to my office to make calls with me on Saturday morning and we\u2019ll just have a great time.\u201d
And that led to me hiring my first acquisition manager, Billy Bell, because he was doing a part-time and he came in and his third call, he got a $12,000 deal. And I was like, \u201cOkay, this is going to be\u2026\u201d And by the way, that is not common. It takes a while. That\u2019s just a timing thing there. But he was able to get it, and so I started building my business. The best return on investment that I had was making calls and hiring really great callers to make calls when I could afford really great callers. And then that really sped up the process of growing the business. And 1.7 million was the highest that we\u2019ve done, and that was with four people.
And that was with a operator, a lead manager, Jackie, she\u2019s phenomenal. Two acquisition managers, Ryan and Chad. They\u2019re absolute savages. And Jeremy, who is my disposition manager. And now I work two hours in the business a week.<\/p>\n
So, I\u2019m trying to zoom out here in my mental brain and get the timeline. So, prior to \u201908, rockstar, doing it big, brokerage, 80 people. \u201908, down to nothing, right? Downhill. Five years passed. 2013, you\u2019re in the car listening to self-help books, boom, epiphany, talk to people. You go start talking to people, you do your first deal 2013. Where is it from 2013 to where you\u2019re hiring these first couple employees. What year is that where you\u2019re having your meetings?<\/p>\n
Yeah, 2016 was the big year.<\/p>\n
So, you just did deals on your own for three years, knocking it out of the park and then said, \u201cAll right, time to scale this thing.\u201d<\/p>\n
So, if you were to give us a rundown of how many properties you have, how much they\u2019re making in a year, what your net worth has grown to, what would you say?<\/p>\n
So, I have a different strategy rate. I buy my properties cash because I foreclosed on them. So, I\u2019ve got two rental properties, and this is not going to sound amazing, but I\u2019ve got two rental properties. I\u2019ve got a amazing office commercial space here in Phoenix. I\u2019ve got a cabin in the woods in Flagstaff, I\u2019ve got my house. I invested 260,000 into ATM machines, which is a really interesting tax saving strategy. Not like I\u2019m going out putting ATM machines. It\u2019s a fund. You guys had an interviewed Andrew Abernathy who builds Class A storage. I\u2019m an investor in that. Invelo is a partner with BiggerPockets, an incredible technology that I\u2019m an investor in that. And I\u2019ve got my coaching and training businesses and all that. Not to make it a pitch, but I\u2019m at like $8 million in net worth at this point.<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything wrong with that at all. It makes perfect sense to me, because you experience the bitter taste of owning a bunch of rental properties, watching how quickly that gets turned upside down and sinks, and recognizing, \u201cI love real estate. I don\u2019t necessarily love the exposure and the mortgages and this side.\u201d And you just decided for you, it\u2019s kind of like food poisoning. You don\u2019t just stop eating food, but you stop eating that food. You don\u2019t want to get involved in that.
You don\u2019t want to eat oysters anymore after you have some bad oysters. So, you\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m just going to get into chicken and into steak. And so now you\u2019re investing in other people\u2019s companies, you\u2019re letting them take on the headache of that. You\u2019re taking all the knowledge that you\u2019ve accumulated and your business sense and your love of real estate, and you\u2019re just making money through it. And then not to mention, how well is your wholesaling business doing?<\/p>\n
Well, that\u2019s it. I mean, guys, I work two to three hours in the business, and that\u2019s mostly on team meetings on Friday. And I get 40 to 60,000 depending on the month and the season and the year passively essentially. And so I think it\u2019s just a different way to look at this industry and a different way to understand that you could build a real business that goes out there and solves the problems of distressed property owners and brings investment into some of these areas and streets. Henry had a conversation the other day about the feel good about solving somebody\u2019s problem. The other feel good is the six S\u2019s that are increased with property taxes when you bring investors onto a street or into a community, right? You\u2019re talking streets and safety and sanitation, schools, services and spaces. It\u2019s wildly rewarding. It is wildly rewarding.<\/p>\n
The problem as I see it, is there\u2019s too many people that are operating off of a blueprint that was sold 10 years ago. \u201cBuy four duplexes and retire and live on the beach and have your best life because you worked hard for a year and a half.\u201d And they\u2019re trying to squeeze that round peg into the square hole of what we have right now, and they\u2019re getting frustrated. And it spills over into the comments where they\u2019re pissed off or discouragement or it turns into shame. Like, \u201cThat person could do it, but I couldn\u2019t do it. I\u2019m just not good enough.\u201d And there\u2019s this host of negative emotions that\u2019s associated with a strategy that worked when no one knew about real estate. There wasn\u2019t a lot of podcasts, there weren\u2019t books being written. If you didn\u2019t know the old man in town that owned all the deals, that\u2019s was going to show you the way, you just thought real estate investing was impossible.
When everyone in the world thought that every loan was 20% down, those strategies worked. The cat\u2019s out of the bag, it is complicated now. And I\u2019m constantly telling people it doesn\u2019t have to be work a job you hate or buy enough properties to have passive income to retire. There is a spectrum of options in the middle. And Brent, you have highlighted very clearly how you can combine a little bit of business, a little bit of talking, a little bit of a service-based approach, a little bit of commitment and a little bit of real estate together. I just love that you\u2019re giving an example of how you can make it work for you. Henry, you have anything you want to say about that?<\/p>\n
Absolutely, man. I think that there are a million ways to make a million dollars and even more so within real estate. And what I love that you\u2019ve highlighted, Brent, is that it\u2019s not just about making the money, but it\u2019s about how you protect yourself. And so I appreciate that you\u2019re sharing a story that may not be as traditional in the real estate space, but as far as business and learning and being proactive with how you build a business, I think that you\u2019ve given us some phenomenal information.<\/p>\n
Thank you. Can I say something controversial? I think you should you have a license to buy rental properties, and to get that license, you have to talk to 1,000 property owners. One, you\u2019ll be able to find unbelievable deals, unbelievable deals, no doubt about it. But two, you\u2019re going to understand what strategy is going to work for you. How are you going to be able to look at all of the different situations that these people have gone through because you\u2019ve had conversations with them, and know what to avoid in your specific marketplace. And I think if you do that, it\u2019s going to save you a ton of the, \u201cI had it all and lost at all,\u201d stories. You know what I mean? Because if it can be avoided, I really hope that it is. But I think that you should talk to 1,00 people before you buy a rental property. And I think that you should consider wholesaling a property before you do a fix and flip, for sure.<\/p>\n
All right. That\u2019s fantastic. We\u2019re going to move on to the next segment of our show, and this is a unique segment. We\u2019re going to call this, Don\u2019t Let the Deal Die. In this segment, Brent and I are going to role play. I am going to be a seller here, and Brent is going to try to talk with me to get this deal across the line. In this example, I\u2019m going to be someone who wants to move out of state and I have to sell my primary residence, and it\u2019s going to be Brent\u2019s job to figure out my motivation and my pain point and keep this deal alive. So, I guess, Brent, we could just start it off with you doing the typical ring ring. Yep.<\/p>\n
Ring ring.<\/p>\n
Hello.<\/p>\n
Hi, I\u2019m looking for David.<\/p>\n
This is David Cass, who\u2019s calling?<\/p>\n
Yeah. Hi David. My name is Brent Daniels. I know that this is completely random, but I was actually calling about a property that I believe you own on 1212 Banana Street.<\/p>\n
Oh yeah. How did you know that I own that?<\/p>\n
Yeah, I\u2019m looking to buy a property in that area, so I just put it on the internet and it came back with your name and number, and sometimes I get lucky and I\u2019m able to talk to you.<\/p>\n
Oh, that\u2019s interesting.<\/p>\n
Have you thought about selling that property?<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know how you heard, but I actually have been thinking about selling, as a matter of fact. It\u2019s so crazy that you called.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s amazing. And just to let you know, the way that we purchase properties is we buy them completely cash. It\u2019s as is, so you don\u2019t have to put another dime into the property. There\u2019s no real estate agents, any costs there. We pay the title and escrow fees. So, it\u2019s just a clean net offer to you. So, for an offer like that, did you have a price in mind?<\/p>\n
Well, I\u2019ve been looking on Zillow and I\u2019ve been kind of thinking about talking to a real estate agent also. I don\u2019t want to give it away, but at the same time, I need to get it sold. I want to leave. This property\u2019s been kind of hanging over my head. You know Banana Street, it\u2019s kind of hit or miss. I\u2019m not really sure. What do you think it\u2019s worth?<\/p>\n
The condition plays a huge role, and I want to make sure that I can give you as much for your property as possible. So, can you tell me, have you done any remodeling to your kitchen and bathrooms in the last five years?<\/p>\n
Well, I have a pretty extensive sense of taste. I\u2019ve got a large collection of roosters that I keep throughout the kitchen. Some are on the fridge, some are on the countertops. I\u2019m not sure if I\u2019m going to include those in the sale yet. It kind of depends on if I want to carry them with me or not. And then also my fridge has been decorated with different magnets I\u2019ve accumulated throughout the years. But I mean, other than that, if I\u2019m just being honest with you, Brent, you seem like an honest guy. It hasn\u2019t been remodeled since we bought it, but it\u2019s got to got that classic feel to it.<\/p>\n
Sure. And I\u2019m looking at this, it looks like it was built in 1974. It\u2019s about 1,500 square feet, is that right?<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s right. My wife and I frequently talked about making some additions. We were going to add on to it. We never actually did that. So, it\u2019s in its original state.<\/p>\n
Any issues mechanically? Everything\u2019s working fine. Any issues that I would need to know? Plumbing, electrical, roof, furnace?<\/p>\n
David, tell him about the air conditioner. You never let me put the air conditioner below 60.<\/p>\n
Shh, Henry. Give me a minute. We\u2019re talking business over here.<\/p>\n
Well, hello, Mrs. David, how are you?<\/p>\n
Oh, I\u2019m fine. I\u2019m just listening in.<\/p>\n
Well, that\u2019s great. I\u2019m glad that I have both you guys on the line. I\u2019m going to give you the best cash offer that I can for your property, because I really want to invest in your neighborhood. Typically, we can close these deals, just to give you an idea of timeline, we can close these deals in two weeks to 30 days. Do you think that that\u2019ll be enough for you guys to be able to pack everything up and move?<\/p>\n
Wow, two weeks to 30? That sounds really fast. I mean we were expecting it to take about 90 days or so on the market. And what I think that we had wanted to go look at houses out of state, but we were going to sell this one first. What do you think, Brent? Do you think it\u2019s better to sell your house first, or do you think it\u2019s better to start looking for the next one?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s always great to have a plan on where you\u2019re going to go next so that you\u2019re really comfortable with the decision that you make and the timing in which you make that decision. So, I think that\u2019s a great idea. If you were to sell this, where are you going to move to next?<\/p>\n
Well, we\u2019re in Phoenix right now, but it gets really hot in the summertime, and as you heard, I don\u2019t like my wife touching the thermostat. It\u2019s causing some problems in our marriage. We\u2019re fighting about it all the time. The grandkids come over and they\u2019re sweating inside the house. I think it\u2019s good for them because it builds character, but my wife won\u2019t get off my back about it. We really need to move somewhere where air conditioning\u2019s not needed. So, we\u2019re thinking about Fargo probably. We think our money\u2019s going to go a little bit further there is kind of what we had in mind. Did you want to just write us an offer and we\u2019ll kind of talk about it and see what we think?<\/p>\n
You can buy a mansion in Fargo. That\u2019s going to be really exciting. I mean it\u2019s a big change, but that\u2019s really, really, really exciting. Yeah, I absolutely can put together an offer. I just need to know where you guys are at in price?<\/p>\n
Well, Zillow has it at about 350,000. So, we were thinking about listing it at maybe like 345. We\u2019ve heard that the market\u2019s turning around. I heard some talk about interest rates being up, so we don\u2019t want to be greedy, but I was kind of thinking about listing in at 345 and then seeing where it goes. But if you make me an offer, I might take a little bit less.<\/p>\n
Sure. That\u2019s fantastic. I\u2019m on my computer right now. I\u2019m looking at properties in your area in similar condition that are similar size, and they\u2019re actually going for around 220,000. Is that something that you would consider?<\/p>\n
Oh, I don\u2019t think I realized that. That\u2019s a little bit to stomach here. Let\u2019s see. Well, the stuff in Fargo\u2019s only about 150,000, so I suppose that\u2019s not really the end of the world. Well, what are you going to want me to do to the house? Or you don\u2019t want us to upgrade it? Do you need me to fix that jiggly handle in the toilet that we told you about?<\/p>\n
That\u2019s the best part, David. We take it completely as is. I\u2019ve got my crews ready. They\u2019re going to come in and they\u2019re going to make that house look absolutely incredible and just update it. I\u2019m sure it already looks incredible, but just update it and put it up to 2023 standards. But if we can be around 220,000, that would be a net offer in your pocket. There\u2019s nothing coming out of that. So, I\u2019m not going to come back to you and hit you with a bunch of inspection items.<\/p>\n
David, we could have 220,000 in two weeks?<\/p>\n
Well, hang on a second, hun. Well, let me ask you, Brent, are you pre-approved? Because I\u2019ve been told to only deal with pre-approved serious buyers.<\/p>\n
And that is really smart advice. But listen, you don\u2019t need pre-approval when you\u2019re buying it cash. This is cash in the bank ready to give it to you. I\u2019m ready to give it to you as soon as you guys are ready to make the decision to when you want to close, when you want to get your money. So, I think it sounds to me that you\u2019ve got some plan to move. You got to find a new place, you\u2019ve got to pack up your stuff. Why don\u2019t we set this for 30 days? We can close in 30 days at a price of 220,000 and then you guys can just be off to Fargo and enjoying that beautiful brisk weather.<\/p>\n
We were actually thinking about taking a trip out there pretty soon. Is there any chance that you might be able to close in 21 days, so if we find another property we like, we can use your money to buy it?<\/p>\n
Absolutely. Absolutely. I\u2019ll tell you what, I am going to be in your neighborhood this afternoon at three o\u2019clock. Why don\u2019t I come by and I can go over the agreement, make sure that you guys are comfortable with every part of the process, and we can move forward and we can open up escrow and get this as done as smooth as possible.<\/p>\n
Okay. Wait one second, Brent. Hun, can you make sure that you get the Lysol out and clean down the chickens and the roosters that are on the fridge? We\u2019re going to have company.<\/p>\n
Not my chickens.<\/p>\n
Yeah, just get them in them glistening. We want to make a good impression here. All right, Brett, I do think that that can work. If you could be here at three, we\u2019ll be happy to meet you.<\/p>\n
Excellent. And so when I come out, is there anything that would prevent you guys from moving forward when I come out? If everything, the price and the terms, and you guys like working with me, if everything is in line there, is there anything stopping you guys from moving forward today?<\/p>\n
Well, we don\u2019t want to make any repairs. This is something we just want to be done with.<\/p>\n
As is.<\/p>\n
We want to move on. Yeah. So, if we don\u2019t have to do anything and you can put $220,000 in our bank account in 21 days, I think this makes sense for us and it\u2019s probably a blessing.<\/p>\n
Fantastic. I am so excited to meet you, Mr. And Mrs. David. This is going to be great. I\u2019ll see you at three o\u2019clock.<\/p>\n
Okay. Thanks for calling.<\/p>\n
All right. See you.<\/p>\n
Awesome, Brent, that was so much fun. Thank you so much. And you know what? He\u2019s so good at this. I don\u2019t think people realized a lot of the intention behind the tone you had and the questions that you asked. One that stuck out to me as a really big deal is the question you asked at the end. Is there anything stopping you from getting this deal done essentially at the end? That\u2019s something I have not done a good job of doing. And as soon as you said it, I was like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s a great idea.\u201d Right? So, I love that you were speaking with the end in mind.
Essentially you were saying, \u201cI am coming to get this deal signed. If there\u2019s anything that\u2019s going to stop this thing from getting it signed, let me know what that is now so that I can try to remove that roadblock up front.\u201d Man, I thought that was a phenomenal, phenomenal question. What other intentional questions do you ask? And obviously you changed the words up for the situation, but it seemed like there were some very intentional questions you were asking.<\/p>\n
Well, first of all, thank you, David. Obviously on most role plays, people go really, really, really brutal. And it\u2019s like in real life, if somebody\u2019s going real brutal, I just move on. Somebody\u2019s not going to do business with you, you move on. So, that was really cool that we could unfold this. But there\u2019s seven parts to the perfect call. The first four we talked about already is condition, timeline, motivation, price. So, that\u2019s what I was asking about. What was the condition? What remodeling have you done to your kitchen and the bathrooms, anything mechanical? And I do that as number one, because people are comfortable talking about their property before their situation or their emotions. And what typically happens, and it happened in this conversation, is once you get the condition and the timeline, they usually, if you do it right, they give you the motivation.
\u201cWe want to move, we don\u2019t want to do anything. Fixing up things is a big issue for us. We don\u2019t want to do that.\u201d And then on the price, what I do is I look around and I don\u2019t give you the offer of 220,000. What I said was, \u201cIt looks like your neighbors in similar condition, in similar size, are selling for 220,000.\u201d And that\u2019s like the anchor. That\u2019s saying, well, that\u2019s what other people are selling it for is that\u2019s something that they would consider. And at that point they\u2019re like, \u201cNo, I would never sell for that. I need at least this price.\u201d And then you could go on to different conversations there. So, we did the condition, timeline, motivation, price. It\u2019s the first four. The next three to really be great on the phone is confirm and approve everything. Oh, roosters fantastic. Oh, magnets, yes.
Oh, you want that price? Great. Fantastic. Don\u2019t cause friction in the conversation by telling them they\u2019re wrong. The other one is to actively listen. And it was kind of tough to do here, because we\u2019re on screen, but it\u2019s like, \u201cUh-huh. Yeah, sure. Oh, great. That\u2019s great. Uh-huh.\u201d Don\u2019t just be silent when you ask a question because it sounds like an interrogation instead of a conversation. And then the last one is whenever they ask a question, answer the question and then ask a question. Just don\u2019t do that old 80 sales tactic where they\u2019re like, \u201cWell, how much will you give me?\u201d
\u201cWell, how much do you want?\u201d You know what I mean? Don\u2019t just answer a question with a question. That\u2019s old school and people are really annoyed with that. So, answer the question, ask a question. So, that\u2019s really the seven steps, is the four prequel, confirm and approve, active listening, and answer question and ask a question.<\/p>\n
Another thing that you did well that I think is something to be highlighted is when I chimed in as the wife, you immediately stopped and acknowledged that the wife was there. A lot of the times people just want to talk to the decision maker. They just want to talk to whoever answered the phone. They don\u2019t acknowledge somebody else, but you taking the time to show the respect, to acknowledge the seller\u2019s wife and say, \u201cHey, I hear you, and I also want to consider your thoughts, opinions, and feelings,\u201d which is essentially what we are doing by doing that, also helps you build that trust. And that trust helps you get deals done.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a very good point. Many times as a real estate agent, I\u2019ve sold one party in the marriage that I\u2019ve been talking to and thought I had a deal, and then the other one wasn\u2019t acknowledged or didn\u2019t get their objections handled or didn\u2019t feel like they were included, and they get in the ear of their spouse and they blow it up. And I\u2019ve learned that lesson that you always have to figure out who are the other decision makers there. And I think Brent, you were getting at that when you\u2019re like, \u201cLet me come to the house and meet both of you.\u201d Build rapport with both of you so I don\u2019t end up with one person who\u2019s an undercover saboteur. That does happen in these deals a lot of the time.<\/p>\n
And you get advanced agreements before you go on the appointment so you can pull\u2026 I would rather know what I\u2019m up against before I go out there, than getting surprised. If they\u2019ve already confirmed that they want this and they don\u2019t want to make repairs and they want to move quick, then that\u2019s the perfect match, and you go and you get that deal.<\/p>\n
All right. Well, Brent, thank you very much. That was fun. Thanks for showing us what it looks like in action as well as sharing the story. It\u2019s a fantastic story. I loved hearing it. For people that want to find out more about you, where can they go?<\/p>\n
My YouTube channel is just Brent Daniels. You can definitely check that out. We put a lot of time and attention and love into that. And wholesalinginc.com. Wholesalinginc.com. We have a ton of downloads and incredible things that you can get there. And those are the two best ways.<\/p>\n
Awesome. How about you, Henry?<\/p>\n
Yeah, as always, man, best place to reach me is Instagram. I\u2019m @TheHenryWashington on Instagram.<\/p>\n
There you go. I\u2019m on Instagram as well, and everywhere else on social media @DavidGreen24. You can find me on YouTube as well at youtube.com\/@DavidGreen24. Brent, thanks again for being here. This is fantastic. I highly encourage everybody to go learn more about sales, real estate, business and psychology by following Brent. Brent, we\u2019ll have to have you on again in the future. Thanks again, man.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s an honor. Thank you guys.<\/p>\n
This is David Green for Henry my boo Washington, signing off.<\/p>\n