\n<\/p>\n
Two <\/strong>real estate markets<\/strong><\/a> still look like they\u2019ve got room to grow in 2023<\/strong>, even as home prices face downward pressure for high <\/strong>mortgage rates<\/strong><\/a> and days on market begin to creep up. Markets like these two exploded in 2020-2022<\/strong> and are still seeing strong demographic signs that more growth could be on the way. But, as two markets that have witnessed some of the most dramatic price appreciation in history, is now a worthwhile time to invest?<\/strong><\/p>\n In this episode, we\u2019re doing a market deep dive into two hot housing markets, Tampa, Florida<\/strong><\/a>, and Dallas, Texas<\/strong><\/a>. These two metro areas saw population booms like never before, shooting their home prices high and keeping competition hot, even as rates rise. But are these two markets starting to see a slowdown in 2023<\/strong>, or are there surefire signs <\/strong>that another wave of buyer activity <\/strong>is about to take place? With so many Americans moving to Texas and Florida, could this be the appreciation play of a lifetime<\/strong>?<\/p>\n We\u2019re joined by Kim Meredith-Hampton<\/strong> and Victor Steffen<\/strong>, realtors in the Tampa and Dallas areas, respectively, to talk with David Greene<\/strong> and Dave Meyer<\/strong> about the potential of these two property markets. They\u2019ll touch on how to find cash flow <\/strong>even with high home prices, the strategies they\u2019re using today <\/strong>to lock in wealth-building buys for their clients, and why the days of bidding wars<\/strong> and buyer ferocity may be far from over.<\/p>\n David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: Dave Meyer: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: Kim Meredith-Hampton: Dave Meyer: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Victor Steffen: David Greene: Kim Meredith-Hampton: David Greene: Dave Meyer: \u00a0<\/p>\n<\/div>\n Help us reach new listeners on iTunes by leaving us a rating and review! It takes just 30 seconds and instructions can be found here<\/a>. Thanks! We really appreciate it!<\/p>\n Interested in learning more about today\u2019s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email <\/em>[email\u00a0protected]<\/span><\/em><\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n Note By BiggerPockets:<\/b> These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.<\/p>\n
This is the BiggerPockets Podcast show, 766.<\/p>\n
2022, we were the top area, Tampa MSA. We had a net migration of 1.9. Tourism is big, maritime industry, healthcare big here.<\/p>\n
I look for population growth in a market. I look for median wage growth in a market, and I also look for employment growth. And Dallas-Fort Worth has all three of those metrics going up into the right.<\/p>\n
What\u2019s going on everyone? This is David Greene, your host of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast here today with one of my favorite co-hosts, Dave Meyer. Dave, what\u2019s going on from Amsterdam?<\/p>\n
Not much, man. It just hasn\u2019t stopped raining all spring. It\u2019s a little bit depressing to be honest.<\/p>\n
Yeah, Amsterdam, that sucks.<\/p>\n
Yeah. But hopefully it will turn nice here, but all is well other than that.<\/p>\n
Yeah. What doesn\u2019t suck is today\u2019s show. We have a humdinger.<\/p>\n
A humdinger?<\/p>\n
Humdinger of a show. You are going to love this. Dave and I interview Victor and Kim, agents in their respective markets of Tampa Bay and Dallas, and we get into the nitty-gritty of how to make money in those markets, details about those markets. We talk about how to look at the metrics of who\u2019s moving there, what jobs are going there, what strategies work in markets, as well as different ways to look at real estate. And what\u2019s cool about this is, if you understand the questions that we asked them, you can ask these of anybody when figuring out a market. Dave, what were some of your favorite parts?<\/p>\n
To be honest, my favorite thing about this entire episode was the nickname you invented for me at the end of this episode, but that has nothing to do with real estate. So my actual favorite parts is when we talked about some of the metrics that help you as an investor understand not just the long-term strategies and prospects of an individual market, but also how to adjust your tactics for bidding and what strategies to use and whether you should add value, and some of the short-term things you can do to adjust to market conditions based on some of the metrics that are honestly pretty easy to look up for any market.<\/p>\n
Before we bring in our guests, today\u2019s quick tip is, head over to biggerpockets.com\/blog where you can read tons of articles about stuff you may not have thought about because you\u2019re only listening to the podcast. Dave, I believe you write articles for that blog. Is that correct?<\/p>\n
I write articles all the time on the blog and I\u2019m offended you don\u2019t read every single word of every one of them.<\/p>\n
I used to. I will admit, I was a BiggerPockets junkie, so I\u2019d be working like graveyard as a cop and nothing would be going on and I\u2019d be reading every single blog that anybody wrote and I remember a lot of them. It\u2019s been a while since I\u2019ve been on there, but you might be bringing me back because you asked such good questions today.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m just kidding. But yes, I write for the BiggerPockets blog a couple of times a month, mostly about market conditions and any economics or data trends that impact real estate investors. So definitely go check those out. And I also love if you comment on any of the blog posts that I write about ideas that you want, if there\u2019s a topic or research-based thing that you want to understand better as it pertains to real estate investing, let me know on the BiggerPockets website. I love hearing from everyone.<\/p>\n
We would love that. We\u2019d also love if you would comment on the YouTube channel itself and let us know what you think about it, and specifically, what do you think about the nickname I came up with for Dave? All right, let\u2019s get to the show. Victor and Kim, welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. So nice to have you guys here. Let\u2019s get this thing kicked off by having each of you introduce yourselves. Kim, let\u2019s start with you.<\/p>\n
Sure. Kim Meredith-Hampton and I am in the St. Pete, Orlando, both those MSAs, two offices, and own short-term rentals, long-term rentals, couple of multi-families and a couple of commercial building and everybody wants to come to Florida, so look me up, BiggerPockets\/featuredagents. There you go.<\/p>\n
They sure do. I\u2019ve often said, it\u2019s like someone took the United States and just tilted it down into the right and everything is slowly migrating.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s gravity. It\u2019s like gravity.<\/p>\n
Settling right in there. Victor, how about you?<\/p>\n
Cool. Thanks for having us on guys. Really looking forward to it. Victor Steffen. I cover the Dallas-Fort Worth market. Active investor, active real estate and friendly agent. My wife and I, we own real estate in three different states, Pennsylvania, New York, Texas, a variety of asset types similar to Kim, multi-family, single family. We do rent by the room housing where it\u2019s appropriate, short-term rentals, long-term rentals, the gamut. So we try and walk the walk before we help investors do the same.<\/p>\n
Yeah. It looks like you do a little bit of everything. You\u2019ve got 48 doors across three states, so you\u2019re a long distance investor. Way to go. We have that in common. And then you\u2019re also doing rent by the room, long-term rentals. It looks like whatever it takes to make that thing cashflow you\u2019re willing to do. Is that fair?<\/p>\n
If the market supports it, we\u2019re down to try it. So, that\u2019s it.<\/p>\n
Yep. Welcome to 2023.<\/p>\n
To be fair, though, a lot of those out-of-state ones in Pennsylvania and New York, it hasn\u2019t been all sunshine and rainbows, David. I know you could probably attest to. It can be a little bit difficult on those out-of-state ones. So we\u2019ve had some boots on the ground there for a long time and I\u2019m from that area, so it made it a little easier.<\/p>\n
Well, that\u2019s what I talk about on long-distance investing. You want to have a competitive advantage and having boots on the ground and people in the area, it\u2019s one of the things that does that. Kim, you\u2019ve got a pretty impressive portfolio as well. So you have, is it 50 units of short-term rentals?<\/p>\n
Yes, we just did that. Been there about a year, actually. Took three multis, repurposed, remodeled and turned them into furnished flex leasing basically.<\/p>\n
And was it difficult to work with zoning with the city to get that to happen?<\/p>\n
It wasn\u2019t because these were actually in D.C., too, which is allowed for like an Airbnb or B&B, or anything like that. So that was quite easy, just knowing what licenses you need and those types of things. And now they\u2019re getting ready to come inspect again so, you know, they want your dollars.<\/p>\n
So in essence, you bought an apartment complex and you turned it into several short-term rentals?<\/p>\n
Yes, the whole thing.<\/p>\n
Okay. And then you also have a property management company as well?<\/p>\n
Yeah, we have a long-term property management company with about 3,000 units between Orlando and Tampa, St. Pete, and those are long-term. And then we also have the Florida Nest, which manages the short and midterm.<\/p>\n
All right. And it sounds like you do it all, right? Whatever an investor needs.<\/p>\n
We do. I like to say we own the full cycle of real estate and I love that people, love that they can come to us and we can help them with everything. And if we can\u2019t do it, we can get them in the right direction.<\/p>\n
It sounds, Kim, like you\u2019ve been involved in Florida real estate for a while now. What have you seen with the market shifting from 2020 to 2023?<\/p>\n
Believe it or not, we are still in a seller\u2019s market, but it is starting to tip a little bit. You\u2019re starting to see the breakage there happen. Instead of maybe having 10 offers, there\u2019s three to five and some of them were getting as a backup to that. So a lot better than just, \u201cNo, we\u2019re done. It\u2019s all cash, out of here.\u201d Days on market definitely are a lot longer. I think seven days now we\u2019re at 39 right in there. So it\u2019s definitely changing. Price points have not went down yet, but you can ask for things.<\/p>\n
There you go. Love that.<\/p>\n
So you\u2019re saying, it\u2019s hot, it\u2019s strong, but it\u2019s not as hot as it was at the peak maybe?<\/p>\n
Yeah, very true. Very true.<\/p>\n
And what do you think has contributed to the, it\u2019s still strong but it\u2019s slowed down some? Interest rates?<\/p>\n
I think the interest rates are usually the biggest ticket. I sell a lot of multi-family and invest in it myself and a lot of those numbers just don\u2019t work. If we can try to get maybe seller financing or something assumable, that\u2019s usually what we\u2019re trying to do.<\/p>\n
Okay. And then in your market, what are some of the long-term benefits that you see in Florida?<\/p>\n
There\u2019s no state income tax. The weather is gorgeous. It\u2019s very cultural here, very artsy, and I think that\u2019s why you had a lot of people move here. I think 2022, we were the top area, Tampa MSA of new people moving here. We had a net migration of 1.9 and that hadn\u2019t happened here since 1957, which is crazy to even think that, but I always say our little St. Pete area reminds me, David, of a little San Diego. I think if you can get in here now you\u2019re still going to be better off in the long run to real estate.<\/p>\n
What do you think is driving this population growth?<\/p>\n
Most of it I think has come from California, New York, all of those things, and the area\u2019s growing in general. With construction, you\u2019ve got that. The jobs are just absolutely wonderful. We\u2019re around 2.5% I think unemployment right now. Tourism is big, maritime industry, healthcare big here. I think it\u2019s just a mixture of things. I can\u2019t pinpoint one thing on it.<\/p>\n
One of the things I see when I do analyses of different markets is that Florida tends to be very polarizing. When you look at the top growing markets, they\u2019re in Florida. When you look at the lowest growing markets, they\u2019re also in Florida. So I feel like there\u2019s a lot of times you see both ends of the spectrum. So what is it that is different about Tampa? You said jobs, but are there anything else that set Tampa apart within the state of Florida that you think make it a unique housing market or opportunity for investors?<\/p>\n
I think for a long time we were really under the radar and price points were lower than a lot of other places, but just those cultural things, plus you have the water on all different sides here that Tampa and St. Pete really are one. There\u2019s just a bridge between them, so there\u2019s a lot of things that you can do and see and get to the beach, but you can go to the art cultural thing. There\u2019s so many different things that it offers to people and I think especially since COVID they found that and they\u2019re like, \u201cWe\u2019re there now. We want to be there.\u201d<\/p>\n
So one of the things that I, as a somewhat experienced investor and real estate broker, have settled on as one of the key metrics that I look at in any market to figure out the strength of it, and it\u2019s funny, it\u2019s not often talked about, is just days on market. If I can tell how long houses are sitting on the market, I can tell you so much about a market. Dave, curious if that made its way into your book, Real Estate by the Numbers? Did you guys talk about that?<\/p>\n
No, it doesn\u2019t. Real Estate by the Numbers is more just like the math. There\u2019s less market selection in there.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s more individual analysis?<\/p>\n
Yeah, it\u2019s like deal analysis, less than market analysis. But I totally agree. I mean, I think days on market and active inventory are great because they measure both supply and demand at the same time. It tells you not only how many things are available but how quickly they\u2019re coming off the market. And in terms of strategizing and determining how you\u2019re going to approach different deals, that\u2019s hugely important.<\/p>\n
Yes, exactly. And Kim, I\u2019m curious, if I looked into the days on market in the Tampa St. Pete area, what is the pattern that I would see over the last couple of years?<\/p>\n
Last couple of years it started, you were probably about 45 days, then it started to tighten up as we went through COVID. And then on the backside of that, as we know, our crazy time over the last two years, it was about seven days. Three to seven days was really what your active market was, which was an insanity. And now it\u2019s gone to 39 days, which tells me we are headed back to our normal, whatever our normal is, but I think it\u2019s inching back that way. I think probably in another six months you\u2019ll see that this will definitely be more of a buyer\u2019s market than it is right now.<\/p>\n
And what do you think is going to bring that about?<\/p>\n
I think you got a lot of things, especially the rates. I guess they\u2019re going to probably go up again. I\u2019m not sure after that, but we\u2019re just trying to hold on and get people things by buying down rates with mortgages and offering, \u201cHey, can we have a concession,\u201d or that type of thing. But I think that\u2019s really going to hurt us in the long run, are the high interest rates. And so I think that\u2019s going to level off.<\/p>\n
Can you tell us a little bit about the rental market and what\u2019s going on with rents in Tampa?<\/p>\n
Our average rental price right now is about 2,000 and that is even for a one bedroom.<\/p>\n
Wow.<\/p>\n
And so it has went up significantly. They went up around 22 to 25% over the last two years, and now I\u2019m starting to see, in the last two months, a little bit of a softening on that. So what\u2019s happening is now, as renewals come back around, people are going, \u201cOh, can\u2019t we raise it another $300?\u201d No. No, we\u2019ve got to be careful on that because you don\u2019t want to\u2026 Occupancy is the great thing. You don\u2019t want to have that vacancy in the property. Numbers, though, are still strong. Still need inventory.<\/p>\n
Kim, it sounds like you know your market. This is great. We\u2019re going to come back to you in a little bit to talk about what strategies are working there, but I\u2019ve already learned more about Tampa St. Pete in the last 10 minutes than I probably have in my whole life before this. This is why I love talking about real estate. I nerd out over this kind of stuff. So thank you for that. Victor, let\u2019s hear about your market. Where is it again?<\/p>\n
I cover the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex.<\/p>\n
Oh, that\u2019s not a hot market at all right now, just like Florida.<\/p>\n
Yeah. Cooled off a lot. No, I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n
What have you seen with your market shifting from 2020 to now?<\/p>\n
It follows a similar macro trend to what we\u2019ve seen across a lot of the country. Middle of May, 2022, you really saw almost like a peak. Middle of May, down through the first to second week of February, there was a pretty significant decline in terms of the number of offers that we saw being accepted, or not so much being accepted, but the number of properties going under contract. We saw almost all of our offers being accepted as investors during that time just because a lot of retail buyers started to pull out of the market when there\u2019s a lot of uncertainty.
So February comes, I think we hit a little bit of a support level there because since then we\u2019ve actually seen an uptick in terms of buying pressure. We\u2019ve seen days on market actually start to contract. We hit a 10-year peak in terms of days on market in February. It went up to about 39 days. Since that peak has come all the way back down to 21. So, looking like we\u2019re coming into more of a neutral market environment. I think it\u2019s actually a very healthy place now. We\u2019re not red-hot like we were before, but you\u2019re not walking in 10% below this price on a lot of these offers like we were, say, November and December of \u201922.<\/p>\n
Something I was curious, I didn\u2019t ask you Kim, so just briefly if you could weigh in this also, have you each noticed new construction ramping up as the market has heated up in your individual markets?<\/p>\n
Yes, very much so.<\/p>\n
I always say, some of the things that Dallas and Fort Worth do best, we don\u2019t do a great job at building a lot of high density housing. We do a great job at building very large single family houses. In our new construction inventory we couldn\u2019t even touch through 2021 and 2022, the first half of 2022. It was just moving too quickly and there was a lot of wait lists. This is something that a lot of our investors have been jumping into now that the market has softened because builders do have more excess inventory than they had through the peak of COVID and for the last, probably, two to three years. So that\u2019s a great asset type for our investors to jump into right now.<\/p>\n
Yeah, I was thinking about that because both of you have strong population influx, people moving into the Tampa area, and when you have too much population but not enough new inventory hitting, you get that crazy, no contingencies, all cash, everything way over asking 20 offers. It\u2019s kind of what we get in the Bay Area when we get hot because there isn\u2019t anywhere to build. They\u2019ve already built everything out. Whereas Texas, and I haven\u2019t been there a lot, but I imagine sprawling land. Just a lot of it everywhere. And Florida, same thing.
It was a swamp and they\u2019ve just started to build out there, so there\u2019s still space that they can build more housing, which means you\u2019re likely to see a strong but still somewhat, relatively speaking, affordable market for the near future because if it gets too crazy, they just build more homes and then the increased supply kind of balances out the demand. That\u2019s really a healthy market. That\u2019s what we\u2019d like to see versus some of these other areas like San Diego that there\u2019s nowhere else to build. They put all the houses they could fit inside San Diego already. It\u2019s hard to get enough supply to keep prices down. So we talked about new construction being a legit option out there in Texas. What are some of the long-term benefits to Dallas-Fort Worth real estate?<\/p>\n
I want to take one small step back into what we were talking about just a little bit ago. We love seeing these new supply, new construction houses come online, but we\u2019ve definitely seen, if there\u2019s not a mix of zoning associated along with that development, those single family houses, they\u2019ll sit. For example, if you go to the east of Dallas there\u2019s a community called Forney. Forney has done an excellent job at bringing in commercial real estate as well as mixed use real estate, plus those large, sprawling affordable housing developments. Whereas if you go toward other directions, for example the far northeast side of Dallas toward Melissa, you don\u2019t have as diverse zoning. So you\u2019ve got a lot of single family houses that have been sitting. So I think as an investor it\u2019s definitely important to look at those multiple zoning types in those markets.<\/p>\n
Is the implication there that buyers just want access to the amenities that come with mixed zoning?<\/p>\n
100%. If you have an HEB you go up anywhere in Texas, property values will double. No, I\u2019m kidding. They\u2019re not going to double. But-<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a grocery store, right? Just for people listening who aren\u2019t familiar.<\/p>\n
Here, everything\u2019s better.<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Okay, so you got to get down to Texas, go to Heaven and get yourself a barbecue sandwich. They\u2019re amazing.<\/p>\n
Now we\u2019re talking. I\u2019m in.<\/p>\n
So, all right, back to the original question. Whenever I talk to my clients about, \u201cHey, what direction are we going? Do you think that we have a long-term viable product here?\u201d I recommend that they invest the same way that I invest. I look for population growth in a market. I look for median wage growth in a market, and I also look for employment growth. So where are jobs going, where are people going, and where are better quality jobs going, not just a whole bunch of jobs that are paying minimum wage, but engineer-type of jobs and manufacturing jobs and stuff that\u2019s going to move the needle in terms of income. And Dallas-Fort Worth has all three of those metrics going up and to the right, so we\u2019re really bullish on that market for the next foreseeable future.<\/p>\n
I was just going to ask the same question, ask Kim, why is it that Dallas has experienced all those things? And I know you\u2019re going to say, \u201cNo state income tax,\u201d but Kim already said that, so you have to say something else.<\/p>\n
I already stole that one.<\/p>\n
Yeah, she got no state income tax. She also got the good weather. Although, for the past couple of years, Dallas has been getting smacked with some ice storms, which has been interesting.<\/p>\n
Oh, don\u2019t complain about. You are from Scranton.<\/p>\n
I know. I know. I know.<\/p>\n
You know what bad weather\u2019s like.<\/p>\n
I got soft moving south, I tell you. Goodness gracious. I used to be able to go and play football in the snow and sleet and rain and no sleeves and be all good to go, but now it\u2019s 40 degrees and I\u2019m shivering. But I like to talk about midterm rentals and what draws people toward midterm rentals. And a lot of the reason that people would be attracted to a certain midterm rental market are the same reasons that give a certain market economic viability. For example, there\u2019s six main midterm rental strategies or six main midterm rental attractions that we like to focus on. So you got major universities, military systems, so say military bases, right?
Large international airports, large corporate employers, so Fortune 500 companies. Downtown attractions or tourism attractions are another huge one. And then if you went in and looked at, say, entertainment districts, so if it was like a Six Flags or something like that. So if you have five or six or even down to three of those main attractions in close proximity, you\u2019re going to have a lot of good upward pressure in terms of price, jobs and good quality high-paying jobs that drive up median income in Texas. Specifically DFW has all six of those industries in close proximity.<\/p>\n
What about price drops? Has there ever been a time out there in the last year or so that you\u2019ve seen prices come down? Is there anything like that happening now?<\/p>\n
Yeah, for sure. We had a beautiful little season, like I was saying a bit earlier, from the end of May through the first week of February when it was, almost all of my investors\u2019 offers were getting accepted and we were putting out offers eight, nine, sometimes 10% below the ask and they were getting picked up. Even if you look at the data, the sale data, I was combing through it a little bit this morning prior to this call, you\u2019ll see that there was a significant decline in median sale price. We definitely hit a floor around that middle of February and it\u2019s been climbing back since.
There\u2019s still opportunity to go in and walk underneath fair market value, but you\u2019ll find that instead of picking up something for 95% of fair market value, now you\u2019re closer to 98%, which is a lot better than 105% like we were in COVID, or even 110%. And I know David out in California, you can attest to that. So there\u2019s still a little bit of discounts to be had, especially if you can throw out a volume of offers and take a couple of shots at some that have the concessions built in and lower purchase prices.<\/p>\n
What about inventory? This is a challenge in my market, is that rates are going up, everyone\u2019s expecting prices to come down, but sellers don\u2019t want to put their house on the market because they have a 3% interest rate and they\u2019re probably going to have to pay the same for the next house that they sold theirs for, so they\u2019re just switching from a 3% to a six-and-a-half and they\u2019re not getting anything any cheaper. Is this a problem for you with just listings in general hitting the market?<\/p>\n
Yeah. This is something I actually wanted to touch on and it\u2019s super interesting. I know Dave Meyer, you\u2019re going to like this because you\u2019re a numbers guy. April of 2022, the April data just came out. We had 8,619 sales. It\u2019s been over a decade since we\u2019ve had it in April with that few of sales. If you look at the number of homes that were on the market even back in 2013 and \u201914 and \u201915, it\u2019s a quarter of the inventory that we have available now, and you\u2019re still seeing a huge reduction in terms of the number of properties that are moving. And that\u2019s just reflective of a very, very, very tight inventory of supply.<\/p>\n
This is a great point. I want people listening to take note of this because there\u2019s a lot of headlines about how inventory is going up. I actually pulled this before that inventory in Dallas has gone up 53%, which makes it sound crazy. People are like, \u201cOh, my God, it\u2019s going up.\u201d But I looked at March of 2023 compared to March of 2019, pre-pandemic, and it\u2019s 60% of what it used to be. So we\u2019ve seen a 40% decline even though it went up 50%. So you have to almost not throw out, but sort of not just look at year-over-year data or really compare current trends to the really unusual market that occurred from 2020 to 2022, and just recommend, if you are listening to this and thinking about these metrics for your own market, you should look beyond, back past COVID into what was going on in 2018, 2019 to get a better sense of where things are relatively.<\/p>\n
Well, here\u2019s another thing. Each one of these metrics, you can\u2019t look at them as a stand-alone metric. I think if you look at everything altogether, it paints a much clearer picture, but headlines don\u2019t like clear pictures. They like saying, \u201cHey, inventory is climbing,\u201d or, \u201cDays on market is going through the roof and we\u2019re at the highest number of days on market in the past decade.\u201d That\u2019s headlines. But if you take them all together, it looks like a much different picture.<\/p>\n
All right. Kim, switching back to you. Tampa, St. Pete, what was the other city that you mentioned?<\/p>\n
We do Orlando, too.<\/p>\n
Orlando. Thank you. What strategies are working out there right now?<\/p>\n
As far as getting deals under contract?<\/p>\n
Of getting deals under contract or finding something that will cash flow? Can you find anything that you\u2019re not going to lose money on out there?<\/p>\n
Yes, you can. It\u2019s like a needle and a haystack, of course, still, because of lower inventory, but really, as I mentioned earlier, really trying to buy down the rate, trying to get seller to give us closing cost and also putting in escalation clauses, are still a thing here. And we\u2019ve got, I think, three separate ones last week because of our escalation clauses. So it\u2019s still alive and well here as it was last year, but that has really helped us garner some more deals than we probably would have.
And most people that are looking at multi-family, still difficult. I just picked up that office building and I got a great deal on it and I put some money into it, but now it\u2019s worth a heck of a lot more. So those are some things I think that people can look at whether they want to do a JV on it or syndication, but looking at some other asset classes, too, in your mix of buying real estate.<\/p>\n
I\u2019m curious, Kim. Are you seeing any regulations come in in Tampa regarding short-term rentals?<\/p>\n
There hasn\u2019t been anything on the short-term. They\u2019re definitely in Hillsborough County is a Tenants Bill of Rights, and the same thing in St. Pete. They have that now. The only thing I\u2019ve seen lately is over in Indian Rocks Beach. They didn\u2019t want more than 10 people in a home and some of those houses fit like 20 heads-in-beds they call it, and you could not park on the street either. They only want them on the pavement, you know, the garage area, so little things like that. I do sit on public policy at the Pinellas County Board of Realtors, and we are on that constantly to try to keep those things out of play for our investors. So, hard to say, but I think DeSantis also really helps with that. He really wants to set the playing field at the government level rather than the municipalities doing that, so that\u2019s something that\u2019s going on right now, too.<\/p>\n
Okay. So, it\u2019s very hard to get a cash-on-cash return. A lot of investors have been forced into short-term rentals when they didn\u2019t even want to be there, and even that\u2019s becoming something that\u2019s being super hard to be able to turn a profit, especially with all the competition. So, with a growing market like Tampa, what is the play in your opinion? What\u2019s the approach an investor should take to make money in that market?<\/p>\n
What we do, because we only work with investors, when we send out properties, we have a total of nine agents. We\u2019re having extra 10 agents that are constantly sourcing every day. And before we send those out we run the short-term comps, we run the long-term comps, what will the taxes be based on that, and just anything else we can garner from that, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re sending out. I want them to have that backup plan.
What if the short-term doesn\u2019t work and they do pass something for that municipality? What can they rent it for? So those are some key things, or could we maybe look at some shorter midterm and they\u2019ve got a long-term, maybe we could work it that way. And that\u2019s what\u2019s nice because we do have two different property management companies. It\u2019s like a great marriage here and so we can try to figure out which way would work best for them. So we\u2019re always trying to look ahead.<\/p>\n
Do you feel like it\u2019s an appreciation play? Do you feel like there\u2019s a value-add element there?<\/p>\n
100%. I mean, we just got voted, St. Pete, the Best Place by Forbes Magazine for a vacation. I mean, how great is that put out there? But always, always, I\u2019m looking on the backside. Is this an area that\u2019s gentrifying? Is there something different we can do? Can we do some rehab to it, make it up and then leave a little skin in the game for somebody else to do? So we\u2019re always looking at every little piece of it. It isn\u2019t just one thing.<\/p>\n
Do you think this is a good time for someone to invest in Tampa?<\/p>\n
I do, especially the St. Pete market because I really do feel we are on the verge of being like a San Diego, and you know those prices better than I. Our average price right now is about 400.<\/p>\n
Oh, wow. That\u2019s low.<\/p>\n
St. Pete, years ago, it was two or 300. So, I mean, you take a look at that. It\u2019s that woulda, coulda, shoulda. Hindsight\u2019s a great thing, so I think it\u2019s a great time to do that.<\/p>\n
So what you\u2019re saying is, that area\u2019s landlocked, it\u2019s tough to build out there, so-<\/p>\n
Correct.<\/p>\n
\u2026 the prices have nowhere to go but up.<\/p>\n
Exactly.<\/p>\n
So, yeah, I mean, I think that\u2019s an interesting long-term point, but Kim, you mentioned in the beginning that you think it\u2019s shifting from a seller\u2019s market to a buyer\u2019s market. How are you navigating that?<\/p>\n
I\u2019m celebrating. Celebrating.<\/p>\n
But if there\u2019s a risk of price declines, how are you strategizing accordingly?<\/p>\n
And actually right now, I don\u2019t think that I see that. We\u2019ve really never had that in Florida. And when you\u2019re talking about\u2026 We had the 1.9% net migration over the last 12 months. We had the best job market here. Those things all culminate together. I don\u2019t foresee in the near future where we\u2019re going to go down in value. It\u2019s not like in Ohio or Iowa or something like that. I mean, it\u2019s very different here.<\/p>\n
Yeah, but year-over-year the prices are pretty flat, right? Now they\u2019re pretty close to flat.<\/p>\n
They\u2019re like 3%, two or 3% up from last year. But even if we\u2019re back to a normal market, that\u2019s typically three to 5% almost always, ever since I\u2019ve been over 20 years, it\u2019s always been that three to 5%.<\/p>\n
Yeah, that\u2019s a great point that it\u2019s typically been three to 5%, which, it doesn\u2019t sound significant until you compound it over five years.<\/p>\n
Yes.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re talking about 15 to 25% and that\u2019s on the total price of the asset. So if it\u2019s a $500,000 property, 15% of that is going to be $65,000, but you probably only put 20% down, which, say, would be 100,000. That\u2019s a 65% return over five years just on appreciation before you get into anything else, which is just one of the reasons that I love real estate and I can\u2019t stop talking about it. So, last question about that market. What should investors look for in an investor-friendly agent?<\/p>\n
Oh, wow. This is a big question and we get this a lot. My team say, we only work with investors, so I speak their language and I will put 110% into it because I\u2019m looking at it through my investor eyes. I know about cash flow, appreciation, cap rates, all these things that you go to a retail agent, they have absolutely no idea what you\u2019re talking about. And when you really want to work with an investor-friendly agent, do your homework. The best I can say is that you definitely want someone like that on your side.<\/p>\n
What are some questions that someone should ask if they\u2019re trying to determine, is this a\u2026 What\u2019s the cool word, a casual agent, or is this a\u2026<\/p>\n
Is that the term now? I\u2019ve never heard that one. Casual.<\/p>\n
Calling someone a casual is an insult. It\u2019s like calling them basic.<\/p>\n
Basic. Okay.<\/p>\n
Maybe the phrase retail agent could work there.<\/p>\n
Retail agent. Okay.<\/p>\n
I say retail. Yeah.<\/p>\n
Okay. That\u2019s our version of calling somebody basic in this space. It\u2019s a big insult, but it\u2019s veiled in professional speak. So what are some questions someone can ask to reveal this?<\/p>\n
I think a huge one is, do you own any real estate yourself? To me, that\u2019s huge. If you\u2019re doing this for a living, it blows my mind some of the people that do not own any type of real estate or even their own home. To me, that\u2019s the biggest question you can ask.<\/p>\n
I want to stamp that, second it. That is such a good point. And here\u2019s the reason that I just realized when you were talking, I\u2019ve never said before. When you own real estate yourself, you develop this sixth sense for what would be good and what would be bad in a property, in a location, in an area, in a law, that is very difficult to quantify. So if you do rent by the room, you look at a house and you get this feeling like this wouldn\u2019t work. And then when you play with it in your head you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, there\u2019s not enough parking,\u201d or, \u201cThe bathrooms are in the wrong place,\u201d right? \u201cThe setup is not going to work for this,\u201d versus, \u201cOh, this house would be great.\u201d Then you got to think for a minute to articulate why you feel really good about this as a short-term rental, or rent by\u2026 Whatever it is.
When you don\u2019t own real estate yourself, as an agent, you don\u2019t have that sixth sense. You cannot guide your clients. So to agents I would tell them, get better at articulating what it is that you see in a proper you like so people can enjoy it. And as the investor, I would say, just like you did Kim, look for an agent that owns property themselves because they will have that gut feeling that will tell them, like, \u201cI wouldn\u2019t want to own it,\u201d or, \u201cI would.\u201d And then you made a great point, too, ask about their production. That\u2019s always a somewhat awkward thing to talk about. If anybody who\u2019s good at anything does it a lot, there\u2019s no one who\u2019s really good at something that doesn\u2019t do it very often, and if you\u2019re an agent that sells two houses a year, you can be super nice, you can answer your phone on the first ring, you can be really available, and you\u2019re really bad.<\/p>\n
Well, it\u2019s easier to answer your phone on the first ring if no one\u2019s calling you.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n
Yes, exactly.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s exactly right.<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve seen really interesting things happen with retail. I call them retail agents. I\u2019ve seen where they\u2019ve sold something in a subdivision and there\u2019s not allowed to have rentals, which people had to sit there for a whole year on that. I\u2019ve seen in an association where they have to be married, or sister or brother, and you sell it and you\u2019re like, \u201cThey want to rent it to students because it\u2019s five minutes from UCF.\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I mean, just crazy little things like that. Or they said, \u201cOh, you can do a short-term rental here,\u201d and they buy all the furniture and they buy everything and they call me up and they go, \u201cIs this true? I can\u2019t rent here?\u201d I go, \u201cNo, you can\u2019t rent there.\u201d Yeah, it may seem so insignificant, but in the end that\u2019s huge. Those are a lot of dollars you paid for that property. It\u2019s a lot of money out of your pocket.<\/p>\n
Don\u2019t you love it when the person use a different realtor and then they call you to say, \u201cIs it true that I can\u2019t do this? Can you help me?\u201d It\u2019s always that feeling of when the girl chose another guy over you and then she wants to call you to complain about her new boyfriend. It\u2019s a very unique feeling when you\u2019re in the real estate space that a lot of people that are not realtors wouldn\u2019t understand. But, yes, those are some great, great points. I think that\u2019s one of the reasons that, when I\u2019m investing, I like to work with an agent that either owns a property management company themselves, or owns real estate or some combination of the two for those exact reasons that you just mentioned because the wise man and the wise woman learns from the mistakes of others rather than just their mistakes.
Also, a good analogy for you. You may get great service at a restaurant when you\u2019re the only person there. The waiter is super attentive, like we were just saying. They answer the phone on the first ring, but that usually means the food sucks, if you\u2019re the only person in the restaurant. There\u2019s not a line to get in, that\u2019s not a good sign. Just because they have great service isn\u2019t the only reason you\u2019d want to eat there. So, keep that in mind when you\u2019re working with agents, too. All right, Victor, turning back to you, what strategies are working in your market?<\/p>\n
Cool. There\u2019s two main ones, and I always tell my clients, like, \u201cHey, we\u2019re not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We\u2019re going to take what the market gives us, and what is the market giving us right now, specifically in DFW?\u201d One is a BEAF-style deal, BEAF, and that was just an acronym I decided to use because I explain the same model so many times to so many different investors. It\u2019s Break Even Appreciation Focused. So these are very heavily appreciation based plays, but they\u2019re assets that are going to go ahead and cover themselves. They\u2019re going to cover their debt service plus a little bit of yield on top to cover your PITI payment.
The other method that we\u2019re really liking in specific areas, specifically Irving, just to the northwest side of Dallas, is that midterm rental play and short-term rentals, Irving has a more favorable STR and MTR market than Dallas, and there\u2019s been a lot of changes, a lot of regulations. I know STRs right now are the Wild West, but Irving has stood the test so far and they\u2019ve been an attractive market. They\u2019ve also got all six of those main macro drivers that we\u2019ve mentioned about before that are going to make a good MTR attraction type of a deal.
So these BEAF-style deals, Break Even Appreciation Focused, that\u2019s where the bulk of our investors have been trending toward. These are relatively recently built assets. They\u2019re mostly ranch-style homes. You\u2019re looking at stuff that\u2019s three, four bedrooms, 1,800 plus square feet. It doesn\u2019t need a lot of CapEx. You don\u2019t got to put a lot of cash into them, and you can get these in B plus A grade areas that investors just didn\u2019t have access to before when assets were moving with 25 offers. So those types of deals are the ones that are really working well for our clients right now.<\/p>\n
The Dallas area is so big, there\u2019s multiple cities and so many different parts to it. I\u2019m curious, do you have any other insights about regions within the Dallas Metro and particular things that work in different areas?<\/p>\n
100%. So there\u2019s two main areas that are going to work the best for your BEAF-style deal right now. Recently built, single story, three to four bedrooms, 1,800 plus square feet below the median. The median right now is just under 400,000 for the metroplex. So you want to be in something that\u2019s, say, 325 to 375, right in that range. The markets there that have the highest concentration of that inventory are Aubrey, Texas, which is just to the north side of Frisco. Frisco is hot right now with a lot of short-term rental investors coming in because Universal Studios, they\u2019re building out their new park there. So Aubrey, Texas, huge for this BEAF-style strategy. And then if you go far east of Dallas toward a community called Forney. Forney has been an awesome market for us to find these BEAF-style deals. So those two specific, very nuclear metros is where we point most of our clients to.<\/p>\n
Did you invent the term BEAF-style deals?<\/p>\n
Absolutely. Texas BEAF, baby. Come and get some.<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve never heard that, but I\u2019m using it. I like it.<\/p>\n
Yeah, Break Even Appreciation Focus. And it\u2019s almost like what we were talking about before with just time on task and working with an investor-friendly agent. We have these same conversations day after day after day, and it\u2019s just a good way to describe a type of deal that we were selling a lot of, and that we have a lot of investors interested in. So, yeah, feel free to use that. Well, maybe I should trademark it.<\/p>\n
So if you\u2019re asking, where\u2019s the beef, the answer-<\/p>\n
Aubrey and Forney. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s Dallas.<\/p>\n
There you go.<\/p>\n
So, for those that just felt their sphincter tighten, as you said, Break Even Appreciation Focused.<\/p>\n
Yes, yes.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re triggering a lot of people here-<\/p>\n
I am.<\/p>\n
\u2026 about going into foreclosure. What advice do you have for the type of avatar or investor that should be looking for a deal like this?<\/p>\n
Most of our clients who are buying that type of inventory, they\u2019re putting 20 to 25% down. Most people are going to be either out of state or they are domestic, but this is not your cash flow heavy kind of a play. There are markets in Texas that will give you that heavy eight, nine, 10% cash-on-cash return, but this is not the market for it. So most of our clients are going to be high W-2 earner. It\u2019s going to be somebody who\u2019s got 50, 60, $70,000 sitting in a bank account.
They just sold a house, they\u2019re using 1031 funds, something like that, and they want that levered return like we talked about before, when you can go ahead and put 20, 25% down on an asset that\u2019s appreciating by between five and 7% per year that needs no CapEx and is going to lease quickly in a high quality area. You hold it for five years and now you\u2019ve got that 25 to 30, sometimes 40% IRR. So that\u2019s going to be our primary avatar for that BEAF-style deal.<\/p>\n
All right. Let me break this down for anyone who\u2026 I love your communication style. It\u2019s like the micro-machine man just dumping a bunch of information there. Did you ever get teased about that when you were younger as being the fast talker that said a lot of smart stuff?<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve never been teased about being a fast talker and having a lot of smart stuff. I think it comes out because we have these conversations every day with our investors, so as you\u2019re saying the question, it\u2019s like, \u201cThis is what I\u2019m going to say.\u201d We talk to a lot of people.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s not what I expect out of someone from Texas. You\u2019re supposed to be a slow talker with a drawl.<\/p>\n
Yeah. It\u2019s that northeast pattern.<\/p>\n
Yes, yes. And I get in trouble with that with my in-laws. Not good.<\/p>\n
\u201cYou don\u2019t seem Texas, son.\u201d All right. So what I\u2019m hearing you break down is that if your goal is cash-on-cash return, which is typically the return on investment that we use in real estate investing, that\u2019s what you\u2019re used to hearing, if you\u2019re a listener. Really, return on investment can be measured in many ways. Cash-on-cash return is the way that we look at the return on your money by cash flow. So ROI, cash-on-cash return have become synonymous in our world. They really shouldn\u2019t be because ROI is more of a concept than a specific formula. You may break even, you may even lose a little bit of money on some of these deals.
But you mentioned IRR, which stands for Internal Rate of Return, which is a different way of measuring ROI, and that is taking into account all the ways that real estate makes money, or at least most of them. So you\u2019re going to be taking into account the loan paydown, the appreciation you\u2019re getting, if there is cash flow, if you earned a commission on the deal. Anywhere that money came in goes into that formula, and then if you sell it in five years and you make a profit, you divide it over five years and now you get a return on your investment for that year.
The reason that this is worth bringing up, well, first off, that\u2019s how people evaluate larger deals like apartment complexes or multi-family properties when there are a lot of investors putting money into it like a syndication, because they\u2019re making money in more ways than just the cash flow of the apartment complex, although that is one way. When you\u2019re looking at a market that gets high appreciation, like you said, low CapEx, I know why you mentioned that because that\u2019s something that can kill your return if you have to dump money into a property because it\u2019s 70 years old and things are breaking.<\/p>\n
Absolutely.<\/p>\n
The market is strong, so people are still moving into it, right? You don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen, but it\u2019s reasonable to expect that it\u2019s going to continue growing the way that it has. You mentioned wages going up in that area as companies are moving out that way, which means rents are likely to increase overtime as well as how much someone can\u2019t afford to pay for the house. There\u2019s a lot of factors that make that a strong market that don\u2019t fit into a cash-on-cash return matrix.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right. There\u2019s a conversation we have often and it\u2019s like, \u201cThere\u2019s nothing wrong with 0% cash-on-cash.\u201d And that\u2019s another, like, I\u2019ve been listening to this show for a long time and if it was 10 years ago and I heard somebody say something like that, I would\u2019ve been like, \u201cAll right, delete. I\u2019m not listening to this guy. 0% cash-on-cash.\u201d But the more and more deals we\u2019ve done having invested in heavy, heavy cash yield markets, Midwestern Rust Belt states as well as heavy cash flow markets in Texas, there\u2019s a lot of good to be had when you focus on area and asset type and quality in terms of your IRR rather than just your COC, your cash-on-cash.<\/p>\n
Yeah. And just let me make it clear, we are not saying cash-on-cash return doesn\u2019t matter. We are not saying cash flow doesn\u2019t matter. We are not saying to buy a place that bleeds 10 grand a month just hoping it appreciates.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n
We are just saying, open your perspective. See all the ways that real estate makes money, take all of that into consideration, and then make an investment decision based on what\u2019s best for you. If you live paycheck to paycheck, you\u2019re barely getting by, you have $30,000 to invest, the BEAF strategy is not a great idea.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n
Okay? Stick with some tuna and some chicken, but you got a great W-2, you have strong savings, you\u2019re making a lot of money. Maybe there\u2019s some tax benefits. You might save 40 grand in taxes doing cost aggregation study on this. That\u2019s a lot of money that you\u2019re saving, even if some, it does bleed a little bit of money every single month, but you\u2019re making a lot of money in other areas. This actually can be a very wise decision. Is that your same perspective?<\/p>\n
I\u2019d like to make one caveat here. So, when we buy these BEAF-style deals, most of our investors are very savvy and they\u2019re going to come in and they\u2019re going to say, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not super comfortable on this. It is cash flow negative, $250 a month.\u201d How we remedy that is, one, you\u2019re buying into a BEAF-style market. Break Even Appreciation Focused. Appreciation does not just mean the asset price itself. That will also go ahead and correlate to rents in that area. You will also expect upward pressure.
Number two, if we\u2019re looking at something and we know for year one it\u2019s going to go ahead and have $200 a month in negative yield, we\u2019ll go and we\u2019ll get that concession for $2,500 from the seller and make up for that upfront cash on the purchase, right? The money\u2019s made when you buy. We\u2019ll make sure that we alleviate that negative yield, that negative $2,500 with concessions on the front-end. That\u2019s usually a good way to help ease the negative yield at least for year one until you have a chance to go ahead and push your rents back up.<\/p>\n
Are you adjusting how you\u2019re advising investors in this market? Because rent growth is slowing down, appreciation is slowing down. Are people still doing this?<\/p>\n
We definitely advise our clients based on what they\u2019re specifically looking for. We call it a perfect deal statement. For every single client that comes through, I jump on a call with them. We\u2019ll go through what exactly it is that they\u2019re looking for, and if it\u2019s a client who is really looking to replace their W-2 income in the next three years, BEAF is not their deal, right? We\u2019ll go ahead and we\u2019ll push them toward a higher cash flow market or management style. Maybe we will suggest going towards something that\u2019s more short-term or midterm rental friendly so they can increase that yield.
If it\u2019s a client who comes in and they say, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got a great W-2. I don\u2019t plan to leave anytime soon. I want to go ahead and have the highest levered return on my money as possible. I want something that\u2019s going to be headache-free because I live in Seattle, or I live in California, or I live in New York.\u201d We will push them toward this BEAF-style deal even as we see a softening in terms of the up and to the right rental rates that we\u2019ve been seeing.<\/p>\n
Kim, I\u2019m going to throw back to you. What is the ideal avatar of investor that should be looking in your market?<\/p>\n
It\u2019s funny, we were talking about this earlier, and Victor and I are probably very same in that. We are very tailored to each individual investor, so we\u2019re not putting them on some kind of auto feed. I find that that sent them a lot of junk. These people, they want to know, for them, the perfect one is that they want to buy a duplex to a quad. They have at least 100,000 to put in, and they\u2019re not queasy as to some value-add to the property and doesn\u2019t scare them. That\u2019s typically what my perfect avatar is.<\/p>\n
Dave has written blogs on both of these markets, which you could find at biggerpockets.com\/blogs. And if you\u2019d like to find agents like Kim or Victor, we can help you with that, too. Biggerpockets.com has an agent finder that is free that will put you in touch with agents that can help you find, analyze, and close a deal that\u2019s right for you. All you have to do is go to the website, look for the nav bar, find agent finder, search a market like Tampa or Dallas, enter your investment criteria and select the agent that you want to contact. Or, you can just go to biggerpockets.com\/agentfinder and match with the market experts now.<\/p>\n
If you like this style of conversation where we\u2019re talking about local market conditions and you find it helpful to learn how to think about analyzing a market, interview potential teammates or people who can help you with your investing, check out the other BiggerPockets podcast on the market. I am the host of that one and we have these types of conversations regularly and I actually know a lot of these stats that we were talking about today because I was doing research for another market-based analysis show that we\u2019re going to be doing on the market in just the next couple of weeks here.<\/p>\n
All right, Kim, Victor, thank you so much for being on the show. We\u2019ve loved having you. Kim, can you tell people where they can find out more about you?<\/p>\n
Sure. [email\u00a0protected]<\/a>, and we\u2019re in Tampa and Orlando. Happy to help.<\/p>\n
Are you coming to the BiggerPockets conference? Are you going to be in Orlando?<\/p>\n
Yes, of course.<\/p>\n
Excellent. Great.<\/p>\n
Victor?<\/p>\n
You can find me at victorsteffen.com or on the BiggerPockets agent finder tool and always happy to help.<\/p>\n
And that\u2019s V-I-C-T-O-R S-T-E-F-F-E-N.<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right. Very easy to find.<\/p>\n
Not like Stephen Curry. All right. Well, thanks again for being here. I\u2019ve learned a ton about both of your markets. I also learned about the BEAF-strategy. First time that I\u2019ve ever heard about that, and how to buy an apartment complex in a city and turn it into a short-term rental specialist.<\/p>\n
Yeah, we need one of them.<\/p>\n
Yes, we all do. Good job on that, Kim.<\/p>\n
Thanks.<\/p>\n
This is David Green for Dave, my beefy co-host, Meyer.<\/p>\n
That might be the best one yet.<\/p>\n