Richard

Don Peebles, CEO and chairman of the Peebles Corporation, joins ‘The Exchange’ to discuss a change in sentiment toward the commercial real estate sector, the company’s recent loan, and the cost of borrowing in private credit.

While it’s important to find balance throughout the year, the summer months are a great reminder to make more time for fun activities and personal or family time outside of work. A determined focus on one’s career or budding business can be necessary to achieve your goals and grow as a professional, but if left unchecked, it can also leave you feeling unbalanced, tired, stressed and like you’re missing out on precious time with your loved ones.

If you think you may be letting your work life get in the way of your personal one, consider these other signs of overwork, as listed by the members of Young Entrepreneur Council. Here, they discuss these red flags as well as what you can do to finally achieve work-life balance.

1. You’re Constantly Checking In

If you find yourself constantly checking in on work when you’re out of the office—whether it’s while you’re at your child’s baseball game, during family game night or while you’re on vacation—it’s time to reassess. You should be able to disconnect and enjoy time with your family without worrying about work or feeling guilty. Stepping away is the best way to recharge and almost always makes for a happier, more productive employee. By creating boundaries—like implementing an email curfew or committing to a “no cell phones during dinner” rule—you can ensure you’re striking more of a balance between work and home life. – Samuel Saxton, ConsumerRating.org

2. Your Friends And Family Are Worried

I find that those who are closest to me (friends and family) will usually signal to me when I’m out of balance. So, I try to listen to them when they are telling me that I’m out of balance and spending too many hours at the office or traveling for work and not devoting enough quality time to spend with them. – Jeff Cayley, Worldwide Cyclery

3. Your Productivity Is Waning

One common sign of an unbalanced work and personal life is the lack of productivity. When work life runs amuck, productivity tends to decline. Summer is a great time to reset this balance as most businesses have a higher expectation of PTO, flexible hours and remote working during the sunshine months. You don’t have to take a vacation to reset this balance. Even something as small as incorporating a daily walk outside during your lunch break can help reduce that “go, go, go” mindset. – Leila Lewis, Be Inspired PR

4. You Have Difficulty Concentrating

It’s natural to want to spend more time outdoors and pursue fun activities as the weather gets warmer. When you’re a kid or student, this is called “spring fever,” and it can affect people of all ages. While adults can’t just drop everything and take vacations whenever they want, they can make some changes in their routines to improve work-life balance. A sign that you need to make some changes is when you’re having difficulty concentrating. If this happens, try to spend more time outdoors and be physically active. Some people can work outside with their laptop. Even if you’re confined to an office, you can make an effort to get out more as days are longer in the summer. Even taking a walk before or after dinner can boost your mood. – Kalin Kassabov, ProTexting

5. You Are Dissatisfied Despite Your Success

One sign that you may notice if you need more work-life balance is a feeling of dissatisfaction and emptiness despite achieving success in your career. The constant grind can be draining and leave you longing for a more balanced lifestyle. That’s why it is important to reconnect with your passions and interests outside of work. Make time for activities that bring you joy and fulfillment, whether it’s pursuing a hobby, spending quality time with loved ones or engaging in personal growth endeavors. Remember to set goals and aspirations beyond your professional achievements, and to strive for a more balanced and fulfilling life that encompasses all aspects of who you are. – Ismael Wrixen, FE International

6. You Feel Physically And Emotionally Drained

A sign that someone needs more balance is when they feel constantly overwhelmed, exhausted, stressed or are struggling to meet deadlines or are feeling physically and emotionally drained. They may notice a decline in their overall well-being, such as disrupted sleep patterns, increased irritability or neglected personal relationships and hobbies. If you start feeling this way, you should reflect and prioritize. Take a step back and evaluate your current commitments and responsibilities. Determine what truly matters to you and identify areas where you can make adjustments or set boundaries. Prioritize your time and energy accordingly, focusing on what aligns with your personal values and goals. It also helps to establish clear boundaries between your work and personal life. – Rachel Beider, PRESS Modern Massage

7. You’re Not Leaving Time For Fun

If someone asks you what’s happening and you can’t think of anything besides work, then you need to get more work-life balance. If you’re using your summer well, you should be seeing places, spending more time with your family and building relationships. So, don’t get stuck with work; make use of your summer and have fun. Innovation, creativity and productivity need breaks and changes in environments to happen. Don’t dismiss work but ensure that you make time for fun. – Blair Williams, MemberPress

8. Work Has Become A Chore

Burnout shows up in many ways, but many who experience it report feeling that they’re no longer energized to show up each day. They start to see work as a chore or obligation. This is a problem for any employee but especially for entrepreneurs who have more at stake and who need to give it their all every day. Any slippage in productivity or performance quickly shows up on your balance sheet. If you’re starting to feel this way, build more breaks into your schedule. Depending on your business, you might not be in a position to take a full week off, or even two days in a row, but you can still schedule time to completely disconnect from your day-to-day—even if it’s just for a few hours at a time. – Andrew Schrage, Money Crashers Personal Finance

9. You Feel Guilty For Taking Time Off

One sign is when you’re feeling guilty for taking a holiday while your colleagues are at work. It’s a red flag for a declining quality of life. Neglecting your personal relationships for the sake of your business has its repercussions. A way to counter this is to have an accountability partner who will remind and advise you when you are overextending yourself. Make a conscious effort to schedule personal time and stick to it like you would an important investor meeting. Also, celebrate victories. Reward yourself and your family for all the sacrifices you have made to keep your business running at top speed. You need this change of scenery to stay inspired, creative and anchored to your purpose. You’ll gain renewed energy and perspective that you can bring to your business. – Bryce Welker, Crush The EA Exam

Dave:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the BiggerPockets podcast. I’m your guest host today, Dave Meyer. Me and my friends from the On The Market podcast are taking over the BiggerPockets feed.

Kathy:
Woo-hoo!

Dave:
Yeah. This is going to be very fun. We are here taking over the BiggerPockets feed to give you a little taste of what we do on the On The Market podcast where we focus on real estate just like this show, but more on the economics, more on current market conditions. Our whole goal is to provide you, the investor, with data and information and news to make informed decisions based on what is going on in the market today. So what strategies are working best, what markets are seeing the best conditions, that type of information. Today, we’re going to get into all of that. We’re going to start with a recap of the first half of 2023 and talk about what’s been going on in the economy and the housing market for the first six months of 2023. Then I’m going to force our panelists against their will to make predictions, even though it’s very difficult, about what’s going to happen at the second half of the year. Don’t hold us to these predictions, but I promise we’ll have a good conversation about what might happen over the rest of this year.
Then we’re going to go into a conversation about different markets across the US. If you know anything about the housing market right now, you know that certain markets are doing really well, certain ones are doing poorly, and we’re going to break this down for you to help you understand which markets are going in which direction, which ones work with what kinds of strategies so that you can adapt your strategy to the right market conditions. So that’s what we got for you today. It’s going to be an awesome show. If you’ve not listened to the On The Market podcast before, we are a guest panel type of show. I’m joined by three co-hosts. I’ve got Kathy Fettke with me. Kathy, how are you?

Kathy:
Great.

Dave:
Can you introduce yourself to everyone listening?

Kathy:
Sure. It’s Kathy Fettke. You probably don’t know, Fettke, I think, means little fatty in German, but anyway.

Dave:
I did not know that. How have we done a hundred shows together and you’ve just told me that for the first time?

Kathy:
You just have to know German, I guess.

Dave:
You’re just dropping bombs like this right out the gate, wow.

Kathy:
Right there.

Dave:
All right. Well, now everyone’s going to remember you.

Kathy:
Yeah. Never forget that name. I am a co-founder of RealWealth where we’ve been helping investors buy investment property nationwide for, well, actually 20 years. This is our 20-year anniversary. Of course, I’m a BiggerPockets huge fan and just super happy to be here.

Dave:
Nice. We also got James Dainard. James, how are you?

James:
I’m doing good. I’m excited to be back on the BiggerPockets main channel.

Dave:
And for people who haven’t listened to the episodes you’ve been on so far, tell us a little bit about your investing experience.

James:
I’m a full-time investor out of Seattle, Washington. We’ve been investing since 2005, very active fix and flipper operators, developers, multifamily buyers, but we are backyard investors in Seattle, very active, addicted to the deal guys, deal junkies up there.

Dave:
Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us. Then Henry, I know you’re on this show a lot, but we also got Henry Washington. Can you give us a little intro?

Henry:
What’s up, guys? Yes. I’m Henry Washington and Henry actually is German for large fatty.

Dave:
I didn’t know that.

Kathy:
I didn’t know that either. Wow.

Henry:
Yeah, just magic. Yeah, I’m a real estate investor. I’m based out in Northwest Arkansas. I’ve been doing this since about 2017. Got about a hundred rental properties. We focus mainly on single families and small multi-families.

Dave:
All right. Well, thanks for joining us. My name is Dave Meyer. I host this show with David as a guest host every once in a while, but if you don’t know me, I work full-time at BiggerPockets. I’m the vice president of data and analytics. I also host the On The Market show with these fine people and I’ve also been investing in real estate for 13 years or so. So first up for the show today, we’re going to recap what’s been going on in the housing market for the first half of the year. To me, the biggest story is that housing prices have corrected a bit, but despite a lot of news and media attention to a potential crash, they have definitely not crashed. It depends on who you ask. There’s a lot of different data sources. You can look at the Case-Shiller or Redfin or Zillow, but most of them agree that housing prices are down year over year, somewhere between 1% and 3%. We were all talking earlier and saw that the median home price in the US dropped from 449,000 to 441,000.
So it hasn’t been a huge adjustment and honestly, this is a bit of surprise to some people who thought with rising interest rates, we would see a big correction or potentially even a crash. I’m curious, Henry, what are you seeing in your market? Are you seeing this correction type environment or something else?

Henry:
Yeah, Dave. I’m actually seeing the exact opposite. When I look at housing prices over the last six months in Northwest Arkansas, we’ve actually been seeing an increase to the tune of $10,000 to $15,000 monthly. So the opposite is true here.

Dave:
Yeah, that’s super interesting. Why do you think that’s going on? Is there anything particular about your market that you think is unique?

Henry:
Yeah. I think one of the most unique things about my market is the corporations that are here. The economy is based around about three or four major corporations who happen to be pretty recession-proof corporations and they’re actually butts in seats corporations as well. So they’re requiring everybody who works for the company to relocate back to the area and so there has been this trickle of people moving back here, plus they’re continuing to hire through this. So we’ve got new people moving and that is increasing demand and that demand is really increasing in that mid-tier home, to that luxury home price because you have high salaried individuals who are coming and they don’t want to start a home. They want something a little nicer.

Dave:
I’m sure you’re seeing this in your market, Henry, but to me, the major reason that we’re not seeing housing prices crash and they’re more in a correction mode is because of low inventory. We talk about this a lot, but there’s not a lot of homes for sale. We actually saw the most recent data in May say that inventory was actually down, which is the opposite of what normally happens. Usually when interest rates go up, there are less buyers and there’s more houses just sitting on the market, so there’s higher inventory, but we’re seeing the opposite of what normally happens. Kathy, do you have any thoughts on why that might be?

Kathy:
So many thoughts.

Dave:
Lay them on us.

Kathy:
It’s really shocking to a lot of people who thought that inventory would absolutely spike when interest rates went up last year, but when you really look at the bigger picture and go back say almost 18 years to 2005, there was about four million homes on the market. Fast-forward to 2015, about 1.2 million. It’s been on a decline for a really long time, but in 2020, wow, inventory just tanked. Obviously, people weren’t excited about putting their homes on the market during a pandemic, but then it really hit bottom in 2022. Oh, my goodness. It was 240,000 homes in inventory and that is an all-time low. Now we’ve gone up since then. Once rates went up, inventory levels have gone up as well, but still historically low. What we just saw towards the end of June was that again, context is everything because numbers don’t mean too much unless you know what to compare it to.
In 2022, active listings grew by 30,000 at the end of June. In 2023, this is just last week, active listings grew by only 5,848. So why? What is going on? It has so much to do with the lock-in effect when interest rates are now close to 7% at least while we’re recording this show. That keeps people in their homes. But markets move when people exchange things, when people sell and buy and all that. But if you have a huge group of people who just are not willing to sell because they’re not going to find another house that makes sense at 7% when they’re in a 2%, 3%, or 4% rate and probably a much lower price because many people bought homes a while ago, not just last year. When there’s people not selling, that’s also people not buying because people who sell usually buy. They still need a place to live. So it’s just locked. It’s just the housing market is locked and if interest rates come down, we’ll see that loosen up, but in the meantime, we’re not there yet.

Dave:
Yeah. I think probably the biggest thing that’s impacting the housing market right now is just this low inventory that no one seems to want to sell and it seems like we’re getting back to the point where we were last year where there is a lot of competition for homes. I was expecting things to be sitting on the market at this time of the year, but I just saw something that days on market, which is a really good measure of the balance between supply and demand, had been going back up as you would expect given these economic conditions. But then they peaked at 27 days, which may sound like a lot, but would be low during a normal time and have come back down to 14 days. That means the average house right now, even with higher interest rates across the whole country is sitting on the market for just two weeks, which is incredibly low in historical context.
James, I’m curious, are you seeing these levels of competition? Because if you don’t know, James invests in Seattle, which has seen one of the bigger corrections in the country, relatively speaking. I’m curious if you’re also seeing an uptick in competition.

James:
Yeah. 12 months ago, it was looking pretty hairy. The market was dropping rapidly. We saw a 15% to 20% drop off-peak and days on market skyrocketed from under eight to it went up to 42 days in January. What we’ve seen is this, in the last six months or last seven months, days on market have dropped down to eight days in the Seattle market. That’s a huge change in turnaround and we are definitely seeing it. Almost every property that we are listing right now we are selling in the first five days, unless it’s in that really upper echelon pricing and the consumption rate’s there, the buyers are there. To Kathy’s point, I didn’t think the lock-in effect was going to be that impactful, but it is a real thing. There is nothing for sale and the stuff, honestly, if it’s remodeled product, I think the days on market would be even less than eight days. It’s like there’s weird junks in the market that’s actually bringing that eight days up.

Dave:
All the way up to eight days, yeah.

James:
Yeah, it’s outrageous, right? There is not enough product for people to buy. That is the underlying factor right now, but we are definitely seeing a turnaround in our Seattle market.

Dave:
So there you have it. I think those are some of the major stories for the first half of the year in the housing market. Prices are coming down a little bit year over year, but they have not crashed. Inventory is incredibly low, which is contributing to why prices are doing what they’re doing, and competition is heating back up. On a macroeconomic level, I’ll just say that obviously, you’re probably aware of this, but interest rates, the Federal Reserve had hiked rates three different times. We’re now at a federal funds rate above 5% and that has pushed mortgage rates up as of this recording, like Kathy said, to the low sevens. As of right now, the economy is still growing. We only have GDP numbers back from Q1, but it did grow 1.1%, which is not super exciting growth, but it did grow. There’s something actually called GDPNow which helps you estimate what GDP is in real time and it’s predicting 1.9% for Q2, so we are expecting to not be in a recession at least at this point of the year.
Now that we’ve recapped what’s going on, it’s time for you guys to do some predictions. It’s our prediction addiction game because everyone loves listening to people make predictions and we’re going to see how good you all are at it. Our first question is in mortgage rates. We’re sitting right around 7% here in the beginning of July. Where will they be by the end of 2023? Think about the new year and we’re heading into 2024. Where are mortgage rates going to be? James, start with you.

James:
I think they’re going to end about six and a half percent, which is higher than I thought at the beginning of the year.

Dave:
Okay.

James:
I’m not seeing the rates slide as much as I thought they would be at today.

Dave:
All right. Kathy.

Kathy:
I am swinging out there with 5.9%.

Dave:
Whoo!

Kathy:
Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but we have seen inflation trend down and I think by the end of the year, it will be trending much further down. Fingers crossed.

Dave:
All right. I like your optimism. Henry.

Henry:
Yeah, I am not as optimistic, not because that’s what the data is saying, just because the Fed has said they’re going to continue to raise rates until inflation gets under control. They have indicated that they might do two more rate hikes and I’m going to take them seriously because they’ve done everything they said they were going to do thus far. So I’m at 7.75, seven and three quarters.

Dave:
I’m with Henry. I am in the higher for longer camp now. They’ve said they’re going to keep them higher for longer and I don’t have any reason to believe them, so I’m saying 7.5. So Henry and I are close here, but we’ll have to steal this show again at the end of the year and see who’s right. Okay, so we got a pretty widespread there. There was more variance between the four of us than I thought there was going to be. All right, how about year over year housing prices? Just as a recap, right now, we are at about negative one, somewhere between negative one and negative three depending on who you ask year over year housing prices. Henry, start with you. What do you think?

Henry:
My gut tells me I think we’re going to continue on the same path, so I think we’re going to stay flat and maybe come down 1% if that. I don’t think it’s going to come down much at all.

Dave:
All right. Kathy, are you going to be optimist again?

Kathy:
I am. I do actually think that we’re going to see year over year prices increase, but ever so slightly. I’m going to just go with 1% for fun, but I actually think it’ll be higher than that. If indeed my prediction of mortgage rates comes down, then we would see more people coming in the market and bidding. They’re already bidding right now. There’s bidding wars again, guys, it’s crazy, even at 7% rates.

Dave:
James, what do you think?

James:
I actually think with the trends that are going on right now and the fact that we’re having multiple offers with a 7% rate and if rates do come down to six and a half like I think, I’m actually predicting about 5% growth.

Dave:
Whoa.

Kathy:
Wow.

Dave:
Okay. You think we’re going to stay-

Henry:
Wow.

Dave:
… on this trajectory, okay.

James:
This is bizarre world to me, but I’m just going to go with the bizarre.

Dave:
Well, I was thinking earlier today that I was going to revise my forecast, but about, not a year ago, in September 2022, I said I thought in 2023, the housing market would go down 3% to 8% and I’m just going to stick with it. There’s so much confusing data, I’m just going to stick to my guns and say I still think the housing market is going to decline slightly on a national level by the end of the year. All right, for our last prediction, it is GDP growth. If you guys don’t know what this means, it’s just gross domestic product that is basically the aggregate sum of all of the economic production of the entire country. You want it to go up normally. If it’s down for two consecutive quarters, that is what many people believe to be a recession. So I’m curious because I want to know if you think we’re going to be in a recession basically where you think GDP growth will be. Kathy, the optimist, what do you got?

Kathy:
Well, I think the first quarter was like 2% or something and it was very shocking that the economy was growing in spite of all the efforts of the Fed to kill it. So I’m going with 1.2% as an annual, as the GDP of the year of 2023. So I think there’ll be no recession in other words.

Dave:
Okay. I just want to clarify that when we’re talking about GDP, I’m talking about “real” GDP, which accounts for inflation. We are saying that the economy will grow even in excess of the inflation that’s going on. Henry, what do you got?

Henry:
I’m similar to Kathy again and similar to my last. I think we’re going to be flat or up about 1%. If you look at the factors feeding into GDP, the jobs report came out. That looks great as far as there’s more jobs available. The consumers are comfortable and are spending money and I just think that that is saying that the economy is strong and it’ll go up a little bit.

Dave:
James, are you going to dissent?

James:
You know what? I’m actually in the herd on this one. I think there’s no recession, but minimum growth at 1%. I think people are still consuming right now. It is slowing down. I just think people have a tough time turning off the faucet right now. They all turn on the faucet during COVID. It’s like I’m going to buy everything. A smart guy told me one time, he’s like, “Don’t ever turn that faucet on because it’s really hard to turn it off. Keep control your expenses.” I feel like America’s having a problem turning it off right now.

Dave:
I love how James is telling us not to turn the faucet on while he is recording on his yacht and that is literally what he’s doing. That is not an exaggeration. He’s literally sitting on his yacht telling us not to turn the faucet on.

James:
You know what? Last yacht, I turned the profit on, Dave.

Dave:
Okay.

James:
After three years, I sold it for more than I bought it for, so-

Dave:
That’s pretty good.

James:
… I will flip anything.

Dave:
Nice. Well, I’m with you, guys. I think it’s a little early to say there won’t be a recession, but I think if it’s going to happen, it’s probably not going to happen in 2023. We had a pretty famous economist named Mark Zandi on the On The Market show a couple of months ago. He coined this term the slow session where it’s basically like we never actually see that negative GDP growth, but it’s this anemic, really slow growth that we’re technically not in a recession, but some people, at least, will be feeling like we are in a recession. As of right now, it does feel like that, so I’m sticking with that. All right, so those are our predictions. Please don’t hold us to them. These are for entertainment purposes only. No. I do think it’s really helpful to just at least talk through why we think these different things are going to happen. Obviously, we’re all just making our most informed, educated guesses and we’ll just have to see what happens in this very confusing economy.

Kathy:
Educated guesses, but the jobs report was 497,000 new jobs, double what was expected, doesn’t sound like a recession.

Dave:
Yeah, it’s wild. If there’s going to be a job loss recession, it’s going to be a while. We’re seeing it go in the opposite direction. It would take, in my mind, quite a while for the unemployment rate to get up to even 4% at this point. It’s going to take at least several months and 4% is still relatively low unemployment.

Kathy:
Yeah.

Dave:
All right. We’re going to move on to our next part of the show where we’re going to be discussing different markets. In preparation for this, I did some analysis over the last few days to just help everyone understand what is going on in the housing market because the stuff we were talking about earlier is all national level statistics. These are aggregations about what’s going on with days on market inventory, but the reality on the ground is very different depending on what market you’re in.
So I looked at the top 137 markets just because those are the ones I felt had enough data for us to make some inferences about it and 41% of them declined over the last year and 59% went up. So there’s a real break in the country right now where it’s not exactly 50/50, but there’s a sizeable portion that are going in one direction and a sizeable portion that are going in the other direction. The spread between them is honestly crazy. The worst performing market over the last year, I’ll actually give you guys a guess. Anyone got a guess? Single worst over the last year?

Kathy:
San Francisco.

James:
Boise

Dave:
Henry?

Henry:
Yeah. I would say Boise or Seattle’s been rebounding, but that would’ve been my guess.

Dave:
All right. Boise was second worst of the top 137 largest. Austin, Texas was the worst with 15% decline in sale price in Austin, which is very significant. Boise was the second worst with 14% and Oakland came in there, but San Francisco, Sacramento, Phoenix, Vegas, those are all up there, a lot of West Coast cities.

James:
And Seattle came off. We were like number five for a second.

Dave:
Yeah. Seattle is doing a little bit better now, but it’s still definitely… Yeah, Denver’s moved up a little bit, but they’re still not doing the best. They’re still negative. But on the other side of the equation, we have Fayetteville, North Carolina is up 16%.

Kathy:
Wow.

Dave:
So the spread between the worst and the best market is 30% right now. This is why it’s so important to understand what’s going on in your local market and listen to shows like On The Market where we tell you all about this kind of stuff. Because of this spread, and we have this really dramatic difference between markets, I asked each of our panelists to give us an under the radar market that they want to share with the rest of you. We all know what’s going on. A lot of us know it was pretty easy for them to guess what’s going on in big cities like Austin and a lot of the pandemic darlings like Boise and Reno are having the big retractions, whereas a lot of the southeast is known to be going up right now.
But we want to provide you with markets that you don’t know about, maybe you’ve never even heard of these places, that you can look into for your own investing or it’s also useful to just go look at what are some of the underlying factors that are driving the behavior and the conditions in this market and see if they relate to the places that you invest because that could really help you understand what direction your market might be going. So Kathy, I’m going to start with you. What market are you bringing to us?

Kathy:
There’s no chance anyone’s heard about this market.

Dave:
All right.

Kathy:
Very much doubt it. Are you ready? Thackerville, Oklahoma. This is my-

Dave:
What?

Kathy:
Yes.

Dave:
Is that a place? No offense to anyone from Thackerville, but I’ve never heard of that city. Is it a city, a town?

Kathy:
It is just over the border from Texas. So much growth is spreading out out north of Dallas. The core is getting expensive. DFW is getting expensive, so businesses are moving out and so our people to more affordable places. One of the areas that has grown so much is Gainesville, Texas where home prices were actually up 10% year over year, median price is 305,000. Thackerville is just over the border, 12 miles. So a lot of people will live in Oklahoma and commute to their jobs in Texas because in Oklahoma, the property taxes are much lower. They’re 0.85 versus double, triple or even quadruple that if you just go over the border into Texas. And home prices are lower. The problem is there’s no inventory. There’s hardly anything there. I think there’s 16 homes on the market. So we’re actually starting a build to rent fund there and building some new supply just over the border in Oklahoma to capture those lower prices, lower building costs, lower taxes, and yet rents are pretty high because it’s Texas money going there.
Anyway, that’s my little hack for 20 years, 25 years now have been searching where the puck is going, so to speak. Once you’ve already heard about an area that’s growing, it’s probably too late, so I just like to see where the jobs are going, where population is growing and get right outside of that. Right in front of the path of progress is my favorite.

Dave:
That’s a great lesson, Kathy. Just for everyone listening, why did you pick this particular town, first of all, and of all the places where Dallas can expand, Texas is a pretty big place, why this direction? What about it do you think is so compelling?

Kathy:
Well, Dallas is growing in all directions and like many places, the urban core has become very expensive and there’s higher regulation, whereas when you get out into the suburbs you can get more work done and your employees can live cheaper so businesses move there. But that particular area, we’ve just seen so much growth with businesses moving north that we think that the next frontier is just over the border in Oklahoma. So that’s why. There’s also a casino, WinStar Casino with 3,500-

Dave:
Oh, I’m in now.

Kathy:
… employees.

Dave:
Okay.

Kathy:
Those employees have no place to live, so they’re actually living in Texas. If there’s housing near them, they’re going to be stoked about that, not have to make that commute and it’ll be cheaper. You also have distribution centers for Walmart, Liberty Energy, Lowe’s. It’s, again, lots of growth, lots of space to grow and for companies to come in and be able to have a cheap headquarters or industrial space or warehouse space and still have a massive metro nearby.

Dave:
I like it. Henry, I think I owe you an apology because I used to think that where you invest is obscure, but Thackerville, Oklahoma might beat you on the obscurity index. But that’s what we asked for, so Kathy, A+ on the assignment. This is great. Well, with that, let’s move on to Henry. Tell us about what under the radar market you want to talk about.

Henry:
Yeah. Obviously, guys, I’m going to talk about my backyard. I invest here. I’m talking about Northwest Arkansas. This is a small, I call it a little bubble up here in the northwest corner of Arkansas. We’re about three and a half hours northwest of Little Rock. So we’re sitting right on the border of Missouri and Oklahoma. This area, for several reasons, makes it a phenomenal real estate market. So to talk about some of the economics, we have very large corporations here, recession-proof corporations like Tyson Foods, JB Hunt transportation, and then Walmart all headquartered right here in Northwest Arkansas. These are companies that are going to do well if we do go into a recession. Walmart is the place people shop when money gets tight and you have to get stuff to places, so transportation’s always going to be a thing, and everybody eats chicken.
So you’ve got just these recession-proof companies, but the key there is these companies are butts in seats companies. They want people living in the community where these companies are headquartered and so people have been moving here at a crazy alarming rate. I think the last statistic I saw was about 35 to 38 people per day-

Dave:
Wow.

Henry:
… move to Northwest Arkansas. What that does from a real estate perspective is it creates the things that you want as an investor. You get cashflow and depreciation. You get cashflow because we’re still Arkansas. So you can buy on the lower end of the housing price scale, but you can rent on the higher end because you’ve got people who have large salaries that are moving here. Some don’t want to buy a home here, so they’re renting and so rent prices are high. You can buy low and then inventory is so low. So if you’re going to turn properties or flip properties, you’re able to capture pretty good profits doing that. We’re getting multiple offers. But to give you some of the numbers from the real estate perspective, we have about 1,500 homes on the market right now. We would need to be at about 5,000 active listings for our market to be considered a buyer’s market.

Dave:
Wow.

Henry:
The average days on market seems high at 94 days, but we would need to be at 120 days. But if you look at the median eight days on market, the median days on market is 56. So that means between when a house is listed and then when it goes under contract, it’s typically about 21 days. So it’s pretty quick. Now, things that are rehabbed and are rehabbed well are trading a lot faster. Things that are crap are trading a little slower, but that’s just a sign of a healthy market. That’s what should be happening. Our rent vacancy across Northwest Arkansas, 1.5%. So there’s demand for anything that’s available to live in. If you have a rental and it looks halfway decent, somebody’s going to be living in it and we’re at about, for an apartment, average rent is a thousand dollars. But that’s an apartment. If you’re looking at single family homes or duplexes and things like that, average rent somewhere between 1,200 and 1,500.
I call it a real estate investing unicorn. There’s great economics. There’s affordability. You get appreciation. You get cashflow. We have just been seeing an increase in buyers entering the market, decrease in days on market. It’s not done what a lot of these markets seem to be doing across the country.

Dave:
Wow. It’s unbelievable. Every time you talk about it, I want to fly over there and check it out for myself. All right, let’s move on to James. What market are you bringing? You can’t say Seattle because that is definitely not under the radar.

James:
No, it’s definitely not under the radar. I’m so impressed with Kathy’s pick though. The population is 440 people in this town. I like her approach though because it’s like, oh, the population grew by 20%. It’s like, okay, but it’s got upside in here.

Henry:
One family moved in, 20% increase.

Kathy:
Yeah.

James:
I actually picked a place and it kind of caught me off guard when I was researching this was Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Dave:
Titletown.

James:
Yeah. The reason I pick Green Bay is because it was ranked on numerous places the number one, best place to live in the US and that’s what they’re predicting for the next year. One thing that I’ve realized, the pandemic has changed everybody’s mindset so much is they just want to live where they want to live and be comfortable. What it did is it took Americans off this grind mentality that we had before where it was like go, go, go, go, go. People have realized they just want to live in a nice place that’s affordable. So I do think that’s a big factor in my decision. Right now, the median home prices are still up 9% year over year, so it’s constantly growing. The average home sells for 5% to 11% over list right now.

Dave:
Wow.

James:
The 11% is more like those hot homes that are renovated and the ones that are more duds are still selling for 5% over list. The sale of the list is at 105% right now. I like the affordability of the market. One thing I’ve learned is when rates started skyrocketing, I actually thought the more affordable markets were going to have more issues because it’s going to really affect the bottom line, but it’s been doing the opposite for the last six months. The median home price is 240,000. It’s a cheap, affordable place. It’s a great place to live besides the weather. That’s why it caught me off guard. That cold, cold weather would be my only hang back. One sneaker stat is it’s a huge cheese industry and the average price of cheese is 32% higher on a five-year average. So the cheese-

Dave:
Did you just go and look up cheese futures or something?

James:
I did because I was struggling to find the economy in there. I was like, well, I know they like cheese and I know they produce a lot of cheese. I do think we’re in the shift of globalization slowing down and we’re going to be buying a lot of stuff. Hopefully, we’re buying a lot more American-made products and that’s what the train could be and cheese could be a factor in that. But I’m coming back to it. It’s affordable. It’s a quality place to live. I do think some of these metro cities in Milwaukee, Chicago, the livability has dropped a little bit and people just want a simpler, easier lifestyle. There’s a lot of migration from those two metro cities going up that way and we’ve seen that across the board in all these markets is like the metro cities, people are getting a little bit away from them right now.
It’s almost like the ’80s where people are starting to leave the metro and they want to be more in the suburbs. They want peaceful living and that’s why I’m basing my prediction on that. But it’s currently growing. It’s growing and number one livable place to live,-

Dave:
Wow.

James:
… except for me, because I want no seasons. I like sun only.

Dave:
Yeah. Well, I think we’ve hit the peak of this show now that we’re talking about cheese pricing on it. I’m very pleased this is how this has evolved. Well, it is great. James, I do want to call this out because I agree. One of my investing thesis is that affordable cities are really going to pave the way for the next couple of years, but I think it’s important because people ask me all the time, they’re like, “Oh, this so-and-so city. It’s really affordable.” You can’t just buy anything just because it’s affordable. There has to be a draw to that area. When Henry’s saying it’s affordable, but there’s a huge economic engine. James is saying, yeah, maybe cheese prices are going up, but also, that it’s a really high quality of life place to live that’s going to attract people.
So I do think there is some logic that affordability is going to drive some future housing market trends, but obviously, you need to make sure whether it’s economic, quality of life, weather, taxes, something that is going to draw people to the city because at the end of the day, it all comes down to supply and demand and you need to be able to measure where demand is coming from.

Kathy:
Well, remember, Thackerville has a casino.

Dave:
Okay, Thackerville, it is. I feel like we should go on a roadshow and go to all these places. I want to see Thackerville. We’ll double the population. Well, just-

Kathy:
That’s right.

Dave:
… the four of us show up. Well, thank you all for bringing these under the radar markets. Some of them, Kathy, a little bit more under the radar than other, but this is really helpful and hopefully it’s helpful to all of you in trying to understand how you can find your own markets. You don’t obviously need to invest in these three markets, but I think that the logic and reasoning and research you did is really applicable to really anyone who wants to invest in real estate. That is our show. I do want to thank David Greene and Rob for allowing us to take over the show. Hopefully, you like this. If you do, pop over to the On The Market podcast. You can just find it on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. We come out every week on both Mondays and Fridays and bring this type of data, news-focused information for real estate investors. So come check us out there. If you want to connect with the fine investors and host on this show, I will help you do that. Henry, where can people connect with you?

Henry:
Yeah, Dave. Thanks. The best place to catch me is on Instagram. I’m @thehenrywashington on Instagram. Also, the same on Threads now because that’s a thing. So check me out on Instagram or Threads or you can check out my website at henrywashington.com.

Dave:
James, where can people connect with you?

James:
Best way to connect with me is probably on Instagram @jdainflips or jamesdainard.com. I just found out about Threads, so I’ll try to figure that whole thing out.

Dave:
So James will be on it in two or three years given his pace of technological adoption.

James:
That’s about right.

Dave:
Okay. And Kathy, what about you?

Kathy:
You can find me at realwealth.com or Instagram, Kathy Fettke. Remember what that means.

Dave:
And I am @thedatadeli on Instagram or you can always find me on BiggerPockets. Thank you so much for listening. Hopefully, we’ll see you next time on the On The Market feed.

Stephen Kim, Evercore ISI, joins ‘Power Lunch’ to discuss the state of the housing market and if it’s safe to bet on homebuilders.

Every generation has had its share of successful young entrepreneurs; now, it’s the turn of Gen Z, launching innovative startups from their bedrooms and transitioning to the boardroom.

Buying and selling is something that Ryan Amoils has been doing since high school. His passion for dirt bike riding goes back even further, to the tender age of four. Combining the two sparked the idea for MX Locker, the P2P marketplace for buying and selling motocross riding gear, bike parts, and dirt bikes that he launched straight out of college.

Amoils says: “I was always fascinated by buying and selling, especially e-commerce, and being able to reach customers worldwide. At school, I sold everything from sneakers to snapback hats; I was always at the post office shipping out boxes. That ended when my parents stopped me selling sneakers almost full time and made me focus on getting into college.”

He went on to study marketing at the University of Florida but never gave up on his entrepreneurial ambitions. Still a serious dirt bike rider, he knew from personal experience how expensive the gear and equipment could be, so he decided to apply what he had learned from selling sneakers and apply it to the dirt bike industry.

He says: “My dad would never buy me the top pair of bike boots, so I made it my goal to get one. I knew that companies sponsored many top athletes in this industry, who got to keep their gear at the end of the season, and would then sell it. As I did with sneakers, I would scour eBay for opportunities to buy in bulk and sell two or three sets for a profit, which covered the cost of keeping a set for myself. It made me realize there was a large market for this, and the idea for MK Locker was born.”

On graduating from college in 2020, Amoils’ parents gave him a year to make his fledgling business work or find a job. He teamed up with his college friend and computer science graduate Andrew Walker and, together, built a new e-commerce platform. The following year they launched MX Locker.

The biggest challenge in their startup journey, says Amoils, was hacking supply and demand. “Sellers aren’t going to sell on your platform if you don’t have enough traffic, and buyers aren’t going to find your platform if you don’t have enough sellers,” he says. “What helped was that we had our own supply, albeit a pretty small one of around 200 items.”

They knew their business had traction when it started earning $100,000 a month. Walker joined the business full-time, and within two years, MX Locker’s user numbers had grown from 7,000 to the current 160,000. Registration for sellers is free, and revenue is generated by taking 11% from each sale.

A lack of experience in running a marketplace was another challenge. “All I had was a basic knowledge of how money should flow between users, how a checkout process should work, and how the selling process should work as a seller,” says Amoils. “Perfecting the model has involved a lot of learnings this past couple of years. Fundamentally it’s about listening to our customers, getting their feedback, and then building tools that enable them to create their own mini website within our platform to succeed online.”

The business was entirely bootstrapped until last year when Amoils raised a pre-seed round of $750,000 with the help of family, friends and business angels. He has his sights set on venture capital for their next funding round.

With the global off-road motorcycle market valued at $103.53 billion in 2022 and expected to reach $151.80 billion by 2030, MX Locker is moving into a new growth phase. The business has a team of six and an increasingly global community, with users in the U.S., Europe and the Far East. New projects include shipments of dirt bikes sold via the marketplace and expansion into crossover markets.

“Our users aren’t just into their bike riding; they’re into many other sports,” says Amoils. “Given the marketplace, we have created, it makes sense for us to expand into some of these crossover industries.”

In as much as Amoils’ entrepreneurial success has been very self-driven, he has rallied support from a legend of the bike riding business, Jeff Emig. One of the top AMA Motocross and Supercross riders of the 1990s, Emig has partnered with the industry’s top brands for decades as a racer, ambassador and influencer, making him an ideal mentor and advisor for Amoils.

Emig says: “MX Locker fills a massive void in the circular chain of motocross products. For decades, people have had limited options for selling goods, used apparel, parts and motorcycles. Far too many have their shops and garages full of good stuff that other consumers want, only for it to end up collecting dust. MX Locker is a cutting-edge online marketplace created and run by MX riders who know the space inside and out. I have no doubt that under Ryan’s leadership, MXL will become one of the most important consumer retail businesses in the motocross industry around the globe.”

Meanwhile, Amoils’ best advice to other youngsters with ambitions to launch a successful business is to be bold and unafraid of taking risks. He says: “It’s tough, but you must be prepared to take the risk. When you have a clear vision, you have to focus on it, but first, you have to put something out there to consumers and the world to ensure it will work.”

Foreclosures across the U.S. are on the rise and nearing pre-pandemic levels, according to real estate data firm ATTOM.

ATTOM’s midyear foreclosure activity report found that foreclosure activity has been gradually increasing over the last few quarters as COVID-related policies have ended.

Across the U.S., 0.13% of all housing units foreclosed in the first half of 2023. Foreclosures are up 13% from the same period in 2022 and up 185% from the same period two years ago.

“Similar to the first half of 2022, foreclosures activity across the United States maintained its upward trajectory, gradually approaching pre-pandemic levels in the first half of 2023,” Rob Barber, CEO of ATTOM, said in a statement.

Foreclosure Trend Could Continue but Remains Below Pre-Recession Levels

One of the reasons for the rise in foreclosures is that housing relief measures put in place during 2020 to assist homeowners struggling to pay their mortgages ended in May.

While foreclosures in the second quarter of 2023 are below pre-2008 recession levels in 78% of major markets, there’s been a notable uptick in the last six months. A total of 97,608 properties filed for foreclosure during the second quarter of 2023, far below pre-Great Recession quarter averages of 278,912.

Still, the rise in foreclosures could continue, said Barber. Properties that have started the foreclosure process were up 15% from the first half of 2021 and up 36% from the first half of 2020.

“Although overall foreclosure activity remains below historical norms, the notable surge in foreclosure starts indicates that we may continue to see a rise in foreclosure activity in the coming years,” Barber said.

Lenders foreclosed on a total of 22,672 properties in the first half of 2023, which was up 9% from the first half of 2022 and 133% from the first half of 2021, but down 40% from the first half of 2020.

States With Largest Foreclosures in First Half of 2023

So, which states saw the greatest increase in foreclosure activity in the first half of the year when compared to year-over-year numbers? That would be Maryland, which saw an uptick of 100%, followed by:

• Oregon, at 99% 
• Alaska, with a rise of 95%
• West Virginia, which increased 83%
• Arkansas, which was up 72%

The states with the highest foreclosure rates were Illinois, which saw 0.25% of all housing units with a foreclosure filing. New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, and Ohio also all had high foreclosure rates.

While foreclosure activity was below pre-recession averages for most metro areas, it was above average in:

• Honolulu
• Richmond, Virginia
• Baltimore
• Virginia Beach, Virginia
• Albany, New York
• Montgomery, Alabama

Cleveland and Atlantic City, New Jersey tied for the largest foreclosure filing among the 223 metropolitan statistical areas with a population of at least 200,000 in the first half of the year, at 0.33%, followed by Fayetteville, North Carolina, and Columbia, South Carolina at 0.30% and 0.29, respectively.

California, Florida, Texas, New York, and Illinois all had the greatest number of foreclosure starts, which indicates there could be an increase in foreclosures in those states in the coming quarters.

Top 10 States With Highest Foreclosure Filings

The Bottom Line

While foreclosures rose in the first half of 2023, we are still far below the average foreclosure rates seen before the 2008 recession. It’s likely that we will see a rise in foreclosures in the coming quarters or even years as homeowners adjust to pandemic relief measures ending, but there’s no reason to think that the real estate market is crashing anytime soon. 

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Note By BiggerPockets: These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.

If you run a small, local business, chances are you’ve got some sort of a website. You may even be set up to sell a few products online, here and there. But you may not have tapped the massive potential of building out a real e-commerce arm for your business. And you might not realize just how easy — or how lucrative — it’s become for small, local businesses to move online.

If you’re still mostly bound to brick-and-mortar, it’s time to consider a change. Here are some low-risk, high-reward ways to successfully scale into the digital world.

1. Do a Digital Reboot

As noted, you may already have a great website or even a decent online store. But it’s likely you could be doing much more to make it competitive with other e-commerce sites in your niche.

If it isn’t already, your site should be hosted on—or at least integrated with—a platform that’s designed for e-commerce, like Shopify, Squarespace or BigCommerce. Make sure it’s easy to use, intuitive to navigate and has a clean, simple design. It might be worth having a specialist conduct a user experience audit.

Perhaps most importantly, ensure your site is optimized for mobile users. Remember that 91% of Americans ages 18 to 49—likely the bulk of your target customers—shop on their smartphones. Most web design platforms let you convert your desktop designs to mobile layouts almost automatically. But you still need to make sure the mobile version is attractive and usable.

2. Leverage the Power of Online Testimonials

Getting good product reviews on your site and on other platforms can do wonders for your business. Consumers don’t trust brands, but they trust other people’s experience of a brand or product. Positive reviews can be just as effective as hearing directly from people they know in real life.

Smallbiz Technology recommends that businesses feature reviews and testimonials directly on their website and social media channels, natch. But they also note that positive reviews on third-party sites like Google, Yelp, and Trustpilot can generate tons of traffic.

To encourage customers to write reviews, they suggest offering customers free products or discounts as incentives. But note that if you sell products through a marketplace like Amazon, exchanging gifts for reviews could violate their policies. Alternatively, you can reach out and simply ask customers who like your product to take a moment to do a short write-up.

3. Offer Convenient Payment and Shipping Options

Your customer won’t buy from you online if you don’t make it as easy for them as shopping on Amazon. It’s imperative to offer fast, free or cheap shipping and eliminate any trace of friction from the shopping experience. The smallest details can send a customer packing even when they were already pretty serious about making a purchase.

Whatever you do, don’t force your customers to create an account before checkout. That’s one of the fastest ways to turn a ready-to-buy customer into one who’s just closed your site’s browser tab. It’s also vital to offer a number of convenient payment options, including PayPal, Apple Pay and Google Pay in addition to the standard credit cards.

Packing and shipping your own orders in-house may save you money when you’re just starting out. But as a small business, you don’t have the infrastructure to keep doing that at scale. Eventually, you’ll need to contract with a third-party fulfillment service. Shopify offers its own in-house option and maintains a list of other recommended fulfillment services you can try.

4. Be Smart About Email Marketing and Social Media

One advantage you have as a small local business owner is that you already have a devoted following. You’ve got people in your corner who support your business and want to see it flourish. If you create content that speaks to your biggest champions, they’ll be excited to share it with others.

Email marketing remains one of the best ways to drive engagement and sales for your brand. After all, it’s one of the few forms of brand communication that customers actually enjoy receiving. Still, carefully consider your content—you don’t want to irritate your loyal fans with ads for the same old products. Use email to make announcements, share informative blog posts or offer valuable discounts. That’s the kind of content your devotees will be happy to pass along to their friends.

Social media is likewise a powerful tool for bonding with current customers and reaching new ones. This is especially true if you actively engage with users, such as responding to Instagram comments or stitching videos on TikTok. Partnering with influencers through a platform like Grin or Afluencer could also help drive engagement.

Don’t Reinvent the Wheel

As recently as five or 10 years ago, small businesses had to transition to e-commerce on their own. They needed their own systems for everything from packing and shipping to handling customer service to accepting credit card payments.

All that has changed. Now, there’s an easy, affordable third-party solution for just about any e-commerce problem you can think of. You’ve already got a small, likely overworked staff. Don’t make them—or yourself—create systems from scratch when there’s probably a ready-made solution a short Google search away.

A real estate attorney is required at closing in many states. Even if your state doesn’t demand that a real estate lawyer appear, having a legal professional representing your interests is usually a good idea.

When you’re investing in real estate, finding the right lawyer is essential. Your real estate attorney assists you in navigating every aspect of the process. If legal issues arise in real estate transactions, you have someone who knows real estate laws fighting for you.

What Is a Real Estate Attorney?

As with doctors, lawyers have their own areas of specialization. While some attorneys are generalists, when buying and selling property, you should hire a true real estate lawyer to advise you and protect your interests. Such an attorney is well-versed in property law concerning state laws.

If you are considering investing out of state, look for attorneys licensed to practice in other states.

What Does a Real Estate Attorney Do?

A real estate attorney represents you in all matters related to real estate law. Your real estate attorney’s role may include the following tasks:

Legal documents preparation

Even simple real estate transactions can involve substantial paperwork. More complicated situations only increase the sheer volume of legal documents.

For instance, a real estate lawyer arranges with a title company to conduct a title search. The property must have a clear title with no third-party claims. Once the title company provides a report, your real estate attorney reviews it and works with your mortgage lender or other relevant parties if any title issues exist.

Ensuring all legal documentation is correct is a primary role of real estate attorneys. Real estate is likely your biggest investment. Working with a licensed attorney is critical.

Contract review

During the review process, your lawyer should catch any errors in closing and other documents involved in the real estate transaction. The start of the deal is the real estate contract.

Often, a real estate agent draws up the initial contract. Real estate lawyers must review the purchase contract carefully, as it sets forth the buyer and seller’s obligations. The attorney then drafts riders, also known as amendments, for their clients’ needs. These amendments may involve financing and appraisal contingencies, personal property included or excluded, and unique provisions affecting the property in question.

Dispute resolution

Real estate transactions don’t always run smoothly. Perhaps there is a lien on the property, a title issue, or a boundary question. Your real estate lawyer works to resolve these disputes so you can move forward with your real estate transaction.

Business formation

Using the right business formation for investment properties protects you from liability. Your real estate lawyer will work with you to determine whether an LLC, partnership, or some other type of business entity is best for your legal needs.

Financing and refinancing

 A real estate attorney may advise you on mortgage financing and when to refinance your mortgage loan. They may work with a mortgage lender or commercial real estate lender to help with financing.

Real estate attorneys also guide you on related legal matters, such as tax implications when selling property.

Equity and debt investment structures

Real estate lawyers assist clients in the structure and management of their equity and debt, focusing on maximizing their returns.

Drafting tenant leases

Your real estate lawyer should draft a strong lease agreement for tenants to avoid potential disputes. All parties benefit from a clear lease agreement that protects their interests.

You could simply use a boilerplate lease agreement and save some money as a landlord. That’s a penny-wise and pound-foolish, as a professional with a thorough knowledge of real estate law ensures your real property is as fully protected as the law allows.

Dealing with tenant complaints

When a tenant complains, you must know whether that complaint is legitimate according to the terms of the lease or applicable local, state, or federal law. Your lawyer will explain landlords’ and tenants’ legal rights and responsibilities and whether the complaint breaches the lease agreement.

The attorney will act to resolve the complaint before it escalates into costly litigation.

Property tax advice

Real property ownership means paying property taxes. Your current property taxes may not reflect the realities of the market. Your lawyer can advise you about filing a property tax appeal to fight an overvalued assessment.

Benefits of Partnering With a Real Estate Attorney

When you partner with a real estate attorney for your investment properties, they can handle virtually all of the process. That leaves you, as the investor, more time to concentrate on obtaining a good return on the investment.

If problems arise before, during, or after the purchase of a property, you can rely on your real estate lawyer to sort them out.

Real estate attorneys will advise you about backing out of a deal and avoiding a costly mistake.

The bottom line is that the real estate attorney you hire is always working to protect your best interests.

How Much Does a Real Estate Attorney Cost?

A real estate attorney’s services may be inexpensive, but remember, you get what you pay for. How much you can afford in legal fees is one of the first things you should determine when considering hiring a lawyer for your investment team.

A real estate lawyer may charge you hourly or flat rates. Remember that while a more experienced real estate attorney will charge higher fees, their expertise is worth it.

How To Find a Real Estate Attorney

You can always find a real estate attorney online. Googling is a great way to get started, but the goal is to find a good real estate lawyer, not an average attorney.

Your best bet is often asking for recommendations from those in the real estate industry, such as a real estate agent or fellow real estate investor. They know the best real estate attorneys in your area. Friends or family with real estate experience are another good source of advice.

Look for lawyers with experience in your particular field. For instance, if you’re investing in commercial property, look for attorneys specializing in that domain. Some real estate lawyers are generalists, doing whatever real estate work comes their way. Because the various realms of real estate investing are so different, these attorneys are more likely to make mistakes. They are not necessarily experts in real estate law.

Rather than go with a larger firm, check out smaller practices. You will work directly with one attorney rather than being delegated to less experienced associates at larger firms.

What To Ask a Real Estate Attorney

Conduct interviews before deciding on whom to hire as a real estate attorney. You seek a long-term professional advisor, so you must know exactly what to expect. Ask the following questions:

• What is your fee schedule? Do you charge a flat fee or an hourly rate?
• Where did you go to law school?
• What is your experience with either residential, commercial, or industrial real estate investing?
• How many real estate transactions have you closed?
• Do you go to court regularly to handle evictions?
• Do you have any potential conflicts of interest?

Save Money in the Long Run With a Real Estate Attorney

Legal fees aren’t cheap, but they are far less expensive than losing a property due to an avoidable legal problem. After all, real estate investing aims to maximize profits while reducing risks. The right real estate attorney helps to fulfill both objectives.

By hiring a real estate attorney as part of your investment team, you should save money over the long term.  That’s because the work of the attorney you hire can limit future problems.

Once a real estate attorney is hired, you have someone to advise you on every aspect of your investment strategy while protecting your interests. Smart investors know how valuable the services of a lawyer are when dealing with complicated legal matters pertaining to property.

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Note By BiggerPockets: These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.