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Ashley:
This is Real Estate Rookie, episode 366. Today, we are bringing on Amina Stevens. She’s a former teacher and turned into a full-time real estate investor and agent, and she’s going to talk to us about her market, Tampa Bay, Florida. She’s also the host of the First-Time Buyer’s Club, which is a TV show on the Oprah Winfrey Network. This is where she guides some first-time home buyers, like a lot of you guys, through every stage of the journey to build wealth and reduce the housing disparity in her own community. She makes the dream of the homeownership a reality for everyone. No, I didn’t make that up, that’s a tagline from her own show. I’m Ashley, and I am joined with my co-host, Tony J. Robinson.

Tony:
Welcome to the Real Estate Rookie podcast where every week, twice a week, we bring you the inspiration, motivation, and stories you need to hear to kickstart your investment journey. Now, obviously, Amina has built a very successful real estate business today, but she started off in a super safe, super secure career that a lot of people wouldn’t have had the confidence to step away from, and we want to get into how she made that leap. First, Amina, welcome to the Real Estate Rookie podcast.

Amina:
Hi. Thank you, guys, for having me. I’m super excited to talk to the rookies. We were all there, and every day there’s something to learn, so I’m excited to be here.

Tony:
Amina, if I’m not mistaken, you started off with a career that a lot of people go into spend 20, 30, sometimes 40 years retire from, you stepped away from that. What was that career? What was the motivation, the spark to leave that and get into real estate investing?

Amina:
I got into teaching because I grew up in a family of educators and I loved education and I loved learning, and it just seemed like the right thing to do, but the closer I got to getting into education, the more I started hearing people, like my mom who was a teacher, say, “Hey, you know what? You might want to think about something else.” I couldn’t figure out what else I would want to do. I got into teaching and I absolutely loved teaching, but I realized what she meant, that the system of education is different. I realized that I love teaching, but I didn’t love being a teacher. At the time, I was teaching 12th grade, I taught eighth, 10th and 12th grade, and I realized that I was helping them fill out their resumes and apply to colleges. I was helping them follow their dreams, but I wasn’t following my own.
I realized this is not quite the right fit. The final straw was when I had a lesson plan that I did for administration where many people know that teachers get evaluated and they give us grading and rankings to see how we can do better or where we’re at. When I tell you, this lesson plan was everything, it was everything and more. It had every standard. I was like, you know what? They’re going to rename the school after me after this lesson plan. I remember I went in, it was towards the end of the year and I went in to do this final evaluation and I’m just waiting to get my trophy. They gave me just one notch under exemplary, which is the highest ranking. I asked the assistant principal, I said, “Why? I feel like I’m looking at the rubric, I’m looking at my lesson, what’s going on?” She said, “Just newer teachers, they just don’t get exemplary.”
I was like, “Okay, that’s it.” I’m over here killing myself, and I have some of the highest test scores in the school and I’m doing all these things and I’m capped already. They’re telling me I’m already too good and I can’t get that recognition maybe for another five, 10 years. That was my inspiration to look into something else. The only other thing that I had liked was real estate. I didn’t even know at the time to call it real estate. To even think I was that green in the past is crazy. I was just like, yeah, I like watching those house shows. I like watching Flip or Flop, I think it was, growing up and things like that. I researched how to get into real estate, and one of the first things I came across was going to real estate school. I just joined real estate school, and that’s how it started.

Ashley:
When you were a teacher and you made that decision that you wanted to pursue real estate, at any time were you afraid that you wouldn’t have that security anymore as a teacher? In New York State, at least, teachers have a very nice pension set up for them. A lot of teachers I know, they don’t want to leave because they work for so many years and then they’re set up and they have their pension for however many years or whatever. It’s very hard for them to wrap their mind around the leaving because of those long-term benefits of being a teacher in New York State. I don’t know what it is in Florida, if it’s any different. How did you change your mindset to leave any kind of security that your job offered?

Amina:
I would say that the benefits probably are a little bit better in New York, but I also was a rookie, I would say. I’ve only been teaching for a couple of years, so I didn’t have that long history ahead of me, but I did have a sentiment that I wanted to have an impact. I was teaching at Title I schools, which are some of the most high-risk schools that need passionate and educated teachers. They were like, “You’re the teaching Beyonce.” I felt like I was having an impact. The legacy that I knew I could have in education and the legacy that was in my family was what I was leaving, this history of being in education. I realized that as I was educating my students, I really wanted them to learn from me.
I wanted them to follow their dreams. I wanted them to do what made them happy, and I felt like I was a hypocrite. I couldn’t go every day telling my students something that I wasn’t doing myself. That was gnawing at me, and I was afraid, I would say to get into entrepreneurship, which is what I learned real estate was because I still to this day, hardly know any business owners from my past life, from my upbringing. It was a completely new world to me, and I wasn’t sure what was going to be next, but I knew that I had to follow my gut instinct that there was something more.

Ashley:
Well, we are going to take a short break. Amina, when we get back, I want to hear what is that next thing, who was the person, what was the business, what was the thing that propelled you into real estate. We’ll be right back after the short break. We are back with Amina, and she has shared with us her teaching journey and now we’re starting into the transition into real estate agent and real estate investors. Amina, what was that breaking point and what were some of the things that happened during your life that propelled you into your real estate journey?

Amina:
As I mentioned, I started in education and I decided to take that leap into real estate. In between teaching and real estate, I took another job in between as an insurance adjuster. I felt like I learned some systems and processes and how to manage a high caseload of claims, which I didn’t realize later would help me with the real estate investing and the retail real estate side. I just was like, hey, if I’m going to go into entrepreneurship full-time, I don’t want something that’s as time demanding and as soul draining/aliving. It was like, it’s both sides as a teacher, as education. I got a job in the middle and I started to research what path I wanted to take in real estate. A lot of people don’t know this, but early on in that journey, I came across wholesaling on YouTube and I was like, wow, this is interesting. There’s Max Maxwell and there’s all these people that are doing amazing things.
I had a little bit of identity crisis because I was like, okay, do I want to get into real estate as a real estate agent and just have this new career and it looks good on paper, or do I want to do this real estate investing thing that maybe isn’t as popular or as common as what I was seeing people do in regards to the retail side? I was researching both things and I always researched a lot about real estate investing, but I put that on the side until I got into the real estate retail side, started doing some deals. Then I came across a friend of mine named Francisco, and he told me about the Wholesaling Land Queen, the Wholesaling Land Queen is what I’ll call her. Her name is Dherby Laraque. He was like, “You got to talk to Dherby. You got to talk to Dherby.” I said, “You’re doing well on the retail side.” I started building my business that way.
He’s like, “There’s something else that you should be looking into.” I’m like, “Do I get distracted?” A lot of times people will tell you, focus on one thing and do that well. I had been doing that for two, three years at that point, doing it well. I finally talked to Dherby and I found out that she was wholesaling land. I thought that was interesting because I was really interested in wholesaling, but I saw all the things online and on YouTube about how difficult it can be. You got to do the ARV and the X, Y, Z, then you got to do the walkthroughs and all these things. Dherby was teaching the strategy that seemingly made wholesaling a lot more accessible. That’s what set the light bulb off that maybe there’s a way that I can do both retail and wholesaling without it killing me and without it maybe taking all of my attention in one direction or another.

Tony:
Amina, let me ask, because it sounds like, and just to clarify, when you say retail, you’re talking wholesaling, traditional single-family homes, is that what you mean when you say retail?

Amina:
Well, I’m a real estate agent, my day job.

Tony:
You hadn’t even started wholesaling yet, you were just selling homes as a realtor, as an agent?

Amina:
Exactly. I was networking and I was meeting people and I came across a friend that put me onto my real estate investing mentor, I would say.

Tony:
Gotcha. If you were doing well as an agent, why even think about adding on the additional workload of wholesaling land? Obviously, it’s still in real estate, but those are two completely separate skill sets to be able to find sellers and buyers as an agent and connect those and negotiate and all those things and then doing wholesaling. That’s like a whole different beast. I guess, why even step into the world of wholesaling if you were doing well as an agent?

Amina:
As I said earlier, I like to follow my gut. Remember, at that point at which I entered real estate, I was doing all my research and very early on I found out about wholesaling. Something just told me, you need to look into that. I put that on the back burner because I felt like the more traditional real estate agent route was something that was a little bit easier for me and something that mimics a little bit of that career focus that I had from teaching to real estate, but I still had that interest in wholesaling. I was on forums and things like that, like Bigger Pockets, and I would listen to different YouTubers. I realized that I’m an entrepreneur, I don’t have to pick one lane and stay in that. I want to learn everything that there is to know about real estate and figure out how to diversify my income and have multiple streams of income, as we all say.
I felt like it was something that I was interested in, but also that I should be doing. I shouldn’t just pigeonhole myself as a residential real estate agent. I should figure out how I can get into investing myself. What was really interesting about wholesaling, and many people know this, is that it’s a lot of times, a new real estate investor’s way to build capital in order to invest in real estate. Remember, I was saying back in the day and growing up, I loved all the flipping shows and things like that. At the time, I didn’t know much about creative financing or anything like that, and I know I needed to make a decent amount of money to be able to do fix and flips or builds or anything like that. Wholesaling seemed like a really great entry point to be able to get into the real estate investing side and then later, become a real estate investor myself.

Ashley:
Amina, Tony and I hosted this rookie meetup at a conference once and someone asked the question and said, “I just don’t know what value I bring to the table as a rookie investor.” We asked that person, we said, “What job do you do now?” He goes, “I’m a project manager.” We said, “Who here would like somebody to manage all their projects?” Every hand shoots up. With being a teacher, an educator, what are some of the skills that you had developed from that career that transferred over into real estate? I

Amina:
I think one of the keys to success in any industry, but particularly in entrepreneurship, is to not allow the fact that you’re green or you’re a rookie or whatever, to make you forget who you are. You are a whole human being. You have skills, you have assets, you have aptitudes that have transferable value and skill sets in any industry. I think that I brought my education self into real estate by first of all, learning a lot of things. I didn’t realize that a lot of people just learned this and then learn that, and then they went on to this and then they need a mentor for that and a mentor for this. I’m like, what’s going on here? I’m in real estate now. Let me learn all there is to know. I think that just being a wealth of knowledge helped me figure out how to navigate complex situations or problem solve or find my value proposition in whatever kind of sector I was in.
Specifically, I’m really good at breaking down complex processes. I’m really good at talking to people and managing emotions. I think a lot of times people don’t realize that there’s a lot of psychology that goes into real estate transactions, like getting people to sign. For example, on the wholesaling side, we like to call it an agreement, not a contract. Because an agreement seems a lot more amenable, like, oh, I’m just going to sign an agreement, versus sign this contract right now. I’ve never seen you before. I don’t even know who you are. You’re some person that says that you’re going to buy my house for cash or my land for cash. I think that I was really good at just educating myself so that I could educate others and then using systems and processes to break down the process so that I can help other people.

Tony:
Let’s talk a little bit about the systems and processes, because Ash and I are both big, like operational people, and we want to systemize things as much as we can so that the management is easier, the execution is easier. As you transitioned into wholesaling land, what were some of the systems, the processes, the SOPs that you put in place to usher you through that process? Because there’s a lot that goes into it. You’ve got to market to find, the sellers, to find the motivated sellers. You’ve got to have a process for outreach once you identify those people. You’ve got to have a process for communicating. There’s the negotiation steps, there’s the disposition. There’s a lot that goes into wholesaling one transaction. Walk us through what your checklist looks like.

Amina:
When I decided to embark on the wholesaling land part of my business, I brought in my best friend who knew nothing about real estate. Because I said, I’m still a residential real estate agent and I want to make sure that we can do this business, we can scale it, but also the experience isn’t horrible because I’m doing a hundred things at once. I actually brought in a complete real estate rookie who never even thought, hey, I’m going to go ahead and get into real estate. I just was like, hey, I like their hustle. I know you’re smart. I know you can catch on and I’m going to teach you how to do this. That emphasized the importance that I had to document the processes because she knew nothing about real estate. She didn’t know anything about a CRM, anything about contracts, anything about a contract management system, anything about any of that.
To your point, I first had to document what is our process going to be? Part of that started with learning exactly what the steps are that I’m sure we’ll talk about in a little bit in regards to wholesaling land, and then putting that into an SOP, so writing down first we do this, then we do that, et cetera. Then I knew that I needed to look to technology to figure out how I can make it easier for us to do this because I didn’t want her calling me every five minutes trying to figure out what we should be doing or how to respond to the seller or how to find their contracts. I knew that we needed technology. The two or three key pieces of technology that really helped us was a CRM. That’s where we texted the sellers and called them and kept all of the information about all of the leads and the parcels that we had, as well as a contract management system.
We use Dotloop, but there’s a ton of them. There’s PantaSign, there’s DigiSign, there’s DocuSign, there’s all types of contract management systems. Then we also use a project management system. I had started using this on the retail real estate side because there’s so many different parts of my business, marketing my business and my sales and all that. When you use the project management system, it can help you keep all that in one place. The project management system that we use is called ClickUp. There are other project management systems, there’s Trello, there’s monday.com, there’s Asana. We use ClickUp because in ClickUp, I don’t want to just write down the SOPs, let’s put all the SOPs in ClickUp, and then I had them all organized by day. On Mondays, this is what we need to do. Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, Fridays, and then we connect it. Another system that we use is Zapier, which connects all the systems and makes them talk to each other, so we connect it.
When we finally get a contract signed through our document signing platform, it automatically transfers that file and that alert that, hey, you have a new contract, into ClickUp. Then we have a board on ClickUp that says, first, you need to make sure everything on the contract is signed right. Then make sure it gets to the title company. Then make sure that the seller deposited or the buyer deposited the earnest money deposit. Then make sure that they passed the feasibility study or the inspection period. I found that I was able to through the systems, of course, it’s the whole point of them, make it easier for myself, but then also, turn my best friend into a beast. At some point, she’s pretty much, she’ll tell you this, she’s like, “I need to be on this podcast.” I was running a lot of the company, but it was true that with my connections, I was able to put together this system that now a complete real estate rookie was able to take and help us scale to six figures in a few months.

Tony:
We want to touch on what your checklist for actually buying the land looks like. You touched on a lot of these pieces already, but at least on the acquisition side. Before I do, you mentioned that you brought in your best friend. I’ve struggled with that personally in my business where I’ve tried to bring in close friends and family, but it’s just like not everyone has that desire, I guess, like that drive, that hunger to really want to put in the work to be successful in this. I tried to launch, actually a wholesaling business with my friends. We did a couple deals, we made over six figures on a few deals, but he just fizzled out. Tried to bring someone else in to help with launching my property management business, someone that I knew and worked with in the past before, fizzled out. I don’t know, did you struggle with that bringing that person in or was this someone who was just very intrinsically motivated that was able to latch on and execute well?

Amina:
You have to be honest with yourself in regards to whether or not you’re ready to bring on someone. Because sometimes you can say, hey, I want to bring on a friend, and it’s just because you want them to do all the work. If you don’t bring them on and have, for example, systems and processes in place, it will be more difficult. Now, sometimes you got to just walk before you can run, but I would say that the better prepared you can set them up for success, the more likely they are going to be successful. Imagine if you’re, any job, everybody can imagine if they haven’t even worked there, what it’s like to work at McDonald’s. I haven’t worked there, but I can imagine. It’s like, imagine you go into McDonald’s and they’re like, “Hey, start making some fries and turn out that patty.” You’re like, “What’s going on? I have no idea where the buns are. Where’s the grease?” I feel like that’s one thing, is that if you’re going to bring in friends and family, you got to have something to bring them into.
Then I would also say that you have to be honest with yourself about whether or not they are the type of person that you think will survive in this industry. I think with her, she had the natural tenacity and go-getter mindset. We definitely had our ups and downs and our struggles, but I think that she was motivated enough to say, you know what? I see this opportunity and even when it’s tough, if we can figure this out, it’s going to work out. Sometimes it doesn’t even necessarily have to be a super extremely long-term partnership. You can make some money together and then figure out, which is one of the things we did, let’s get a virtual assistant. Now the virtual assistant is running most of that and now we’re managing the virtual assistant. Or maybe, hey, we did this partnership for a year or two, now we don’t want to do it and we want to move on to something else. I think just going into it with the right expectations is very helpful.

Ashley:
Amina, you had mentioned briefly that this was a six-figure business for you. Can you go into more of how you made that happen and what timeframe was that? Was that pretty rapidly that with your systems and processes and your skills that you were able to make six figures?

Amina:
I would say the bulk of our outreach and acquisition efforts were made, let’s say in January of that particular year. I would say almost all the money, I would say we made a lot of money or a lot of contracts, a lot of dealings, a lot of relationships in that January, February timeframe, and then they were just closing after that. They started closing in January. Some of them were quick contracts and then so on and so forth. After that, we continue to do some deals, but at that scale, because really, I was like, hey, I want to get into this, I want to do some of it. I was like, we can do this. Let’s put in a lot of effort these next couple of months.
Then we started to see a lot of success. I would say a testament to having that clear vision to begin with. Then for me, I had the confidence. Once I knew, okay, you solved that problem that I felt like in wholesaling, which was a ton of time, a ton of effort. You’re doing all this outreach, you’re building your buyer list, you don’t know if they’re going to buy it, if they’re not. She simplified this process so much that I was like, okay, if we do what she says, we’re going to make money, so let me make sure we have the backend operations to support that. Once we figured that out, like I said, it was pretty easy from there.

Ashley:
That’s amazing, to be able to figure that out in a couple of months and you’re already getting contracts signed just starting in January. How did you know what your target audience was? How did you know who’s going to be your seller and how to find your buyers? How did you determine that?

Amina:
The whole idea is that you find your end buyer first. Of course, in real estate investing and in wholesaling in general, there is this idea of building your buyer’s list so that it’s easier for you to disposition properties and things like that. You can’t go to step two until you have buyers and you know their criteria, you know where they are building, you know exactly what they want, you know exactly what they’re going to pay for it. You’ve even sent them maybe some tests, you can even make it up. You sent them some test emails or some test properties to see if they’re going to buy. Once you have your three to five, let’s say, builders that you feel like are solid, that you know that if I bring you exactly what you told me you wanted, you’re going to buy it, then you increase your marketing efforts and you go supply them with what they’re looking for.
We particularly focus on infill lots or spot lots or just single lots. We have come across some deals that we’ve been trying to put together on larger parcels and subdivisions and things like that. Initially, the focus is on those single lots. Thankfully, one of my fortes, I would say, or one of my specialties in real estate on the resale side, on the real estate agent side, is new construction. I know a lot about different builders and I know the different areas where there are single lot developments or where there are subdivision developments. I remember this particular area was about an hour and a half away from Tampa, but I remember every time I went out there, because I do have a wide radius.
I just remembered that’s the type of building they do out there. I think for us, one thing that really helped us is that we were very quickly able to identify our market, which is the number one thing you want to do in this reverse wholesale or this land strategy is identify your market and your buyers. I was able to tell her, like I didn’t need to do research. I’m like, we’re going here, this is where we’re going. All the builders, let’s kill it here. You know what I mean? I would say that’s the key to our success because I have friends that have started this strategy and they spend months trying to find that area that they feel confident in to go ahead and call those builders, invest that time and do that marketing. I was certain because I already knew it.

Tony:
Amina, you hit on an incredibly important point of choosing your market and really nailing that piece because not all strategies work well in all markets, so you really want to make sure that the city aligns. I definitely want to get into how you chose your market, what data you looked at, what made you feel confident to make that decision. First, we’re going to take a quick break and hear a word from our show sponsor. All right, Amina, you just broke down an amazing process of how you’ve built your business, and right at the end, you mentioned the importance of choosing the right city. First, I guess tell us what city you were operating in and then second, what was the, I guess the data points you were looking at or just what went into your decision to say, okay, this is the city that I want to work in.

Amina:
I don’t usually give my secrets away, but I’ll give it. I feel like there’s a few people there now. One of the things is trying to find that key market and then not necessarily giving that away to everybody because you want to build those relationships and you want to have those builders. I will say that at the time, we were operating in Poinciana, Florida. It’s in an area outside of Kissimmee, which is close to Orlando, for those that don’t know Florida.

Tony:
I think that’s the beauty of investing in real estate. There’s 19,000 cities in the US, and me being in California, Southern California, there’s a bunch of cities over here that Ashley, being in Western New York, has never heard of. There’s a bunch of cities in Western New York that I’ve never heard of. Same thing going on in Florida, there’s so many places that you wouldn’t know unless you’re in that area. The city itself isn’t as important, I think what’s more important is what did you see in that city that made you say, okay, cool, this is where we want to put our flag in the ground and build our business.

Amina:
Because a part of the strategy is identifying the market, of course. What you’re looking for is what you’re looking for. You have to believe that there are people out there, there are a bunch of builders out there that build single lots or they want to buy five lots in this area or 10 lots or 20 lots or 30 lots, and you just have to find where that activity is happening. You can use different tools. You can use Zillow, you can use Zillow to see. If you can’t find the lots, you can find the new construction that looks like this archetype of a home that she’s talking about. Not to necessarily in some huge subdivision, but just a single new construction lot in a particular area. You’re researching different areas where you see a lot of that type of development.
Again, you can use tools. The free ones are Zillow. As a real estate agent, I have a few other tools that come with my MLS and things like that, so I was able to use some more tools. I think as I was saying before the break that I already knew it, I was certain because I had been out there. I go out to Orlando and I shop with buyers for new construction. It’s funny, because the area that we decided to focus on, I found out about it because it’s in between, like I said, semi-Orlando, and one of my clients that was shopping in that area was like, “I will not live in Poinciana. I don’t care what you tell me. I don’t like Poinciana.” Because it’s interesting, it’s like a little city, but it’s one way in and one way out.
It’s just like, the traffic is not the best. It’s interesting. I said, for anybody that knows that if you know, you know. She’s just like, “I will never live there.” I remember she got desperate because the market was crazy and we went there. I was able to go there with her and look at houses and I saw all these different single lot new construction homes, and I just noted that. Then after that time period, I had been there a few other times, so I just knew that there was a lot of development there. Like I said, as soon as I found out, hey, the first step is to identify the market where people are building these type of homes. I’m like, I already know. I already know, but it was solidified by us researching and making sure that we could find builders in the area that were actively still acquiring land.

Ashley:
Amina, I have a resource that I’ve used before. I don’t know if it would work for single family as much, but more for commercial development, like apartment complexes or things like that, is looking at the crane index. It’s like rlp.com, I think, and you can actually see how many cranes are in a city and if the amount of cranes have decreased or increased, which shows you how much actual development is going on in that city right now, too. That’s like a cool virtual tool that you can use to see the development of a city. What about job industries? Were there any job industries in that city that drew you to that?

Amina:
Not particularly. I mean, of course, there’s job industries that draw people to the Greater Orlando and Greater Tampa area. Education, healthcare, finance, these are major industries here that draw people from all over the country. Then what happens is because of affordability, that area is more affordable. Because of affordability, people are pushed to the outskirts of the particular city center or outskirts in the metropolitan area. That’s why you’ll see a lot of development happening in between two major cities. The industries flow over into the surrounding areas.

Tony:
When I think about that part of Florida, I mean obviously, I think about, I don’t know, Disney comes to mind and all the vacation and tourism. Are there any other big economic drivers in that area that you saw that was driving a lot of that new construction?

Amina:
I would just say we have Disney. We obviously have, I mean, come on, we got the beach, we got the weather. People always want to come. Who doesn’t want to live where it’s like 24/7 summertime and the living is easy? Sometimes we don’t think about the weather as an industry, but it really is. It promotes tourism and it promotes people that just want to come and retire here or want to relocate here if they are remote. Then also, I would just say education and healthcare are huge here. We have some of the biggest schools in the country, primary, secondary level, to the college level as well. We have the biggest colleges and universities in the country. A lot of them fall in Florida, in the Central Florida region as well.

Tony:
One thing I’m curious about, because where I live, and I’m in Southern California, outside of Los Angeles, a suburban town, there’s just not a lot of infill development. There’s big subdivisions being built all over the place, but you very rarely see a single lot that someone is developing into a home. It just doesn’t happen as often. I guess, is there a way to even know, and maybe you touched on this a little bit already, but it’s a slightly different thing to look at, but just like how do you even know if there’s enough lots in your land to buy or in your city to buy? Is there a way to look that up?

Amina:
That’s why choosing a market is very important. Some people just say, hey, I want to choose my market. As I told you, Poinciana is about an hour or so, hour and a half away. I’m not wholesaling land in Tampa, mostly. You know what I mean? Every now and then, there’s a deal that comes up. You have to find that market because we’re densely populated. You can tear down a house and build on it, but we don’t just have a ton of lots just sitting around. You have to find that market. One of the ways that you can do that, like I said, is going on Zillow, like I said, and seeing where these other, again, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a lot.
It can just be where all the other infield, single new construction homes popping up. That indicates to you that there’s land around there somewhere. Then also, you can use tools like PropStream, LandGlide, LandVision. These are all three tools that you can use to look for lots. What we usually do is first, try to identify the areas that you likely should dive a little bit deeper into where you see some of this development. Then you use tools, like I said, PropStream, LandGlide, LandVision, to really try to find the property owners.

Tony:
Amina, I love that you mentioned PropStream. Ash and I talk about PropStream a lot. I know in that tool, you can actually filter by parcel type, and land is one of those. Vacant land is one of those options. I guess, if you were to go into your city, go into your town or whatever city you’re thinking about and you see very minimal results when you filter it down to vacant land, that could be a telltale sign that maybe your city isn’t the best one. I think about Ashley, where you’re at, there’s probably, I don’t know, a bunch of land, but it’s all like 300 acres out there if you want to go out there and do it in your neighborhood. I guess, every city is going to be a little bit different.

Amina:
That’s what I was going to say, not just hyper-focusing on the land itself. I think the light bulb moment came when I realized, let me just focus on the product. I’m looking for people that build, or I’m looking for what will ultimately be a new construction home on a lot maybe that’s not in some big subdivision. We do that as well. I mean, depending on your area, that might be more what you find. Once you find that, it’s like, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. It’s like the smoke was, hey, they’re building a lot of what we see on Zillow, that there’s a bunch of those homes in this area, so that means there’s got to be some land, or we’re going to try to find the land in that area. We’re going to try to find the builders in that area. Then some of that confidence that you’ll get is when you call the builder and you ask them, for example, one of the key questions I like to ask is, how many parcels are you looking to acquire this year, or are you still buying in this area? What’s your capacity?
Because you might think, oh, my gosh, I got this. I found this builder. I’m going to find them a bunch of land. You start spending all your marketing dollars, marketing the sellers. You bring them 10 lots or two lots, and they’re like, yeah, we’re good with our quota for this year, for this quarter. Part of the strategy is finding, again, that area, finding the builders in the area, and then also, qualifying these builders. Making sure that you don’t just go to an area and spend all your money and your time and you have somebody that might buy one lot. You know what I mean? Find the builders that are like, hey, I want to buy 20 lots in this area, 30 lots. I’ll buy as many as you’ll bring me. That’s what you want to hear. Then you know, okay, if I get five, six builders that are telling me that they have a lot of capacity and then I’m in this area where I know there’s land and I see that there’s a development popping up, this is a good area to focus my efforts in.

Ashley:
Are there opportunities that you’re seeing out there right now that are being missed by other real estate investors?

Amina:
A lot of people are focusing a lot on homes, but land is a really repeatable and scalable strategy. One of the beautiful things about it is that you don’t have to worry about a lot of the things that you have to worry about when you’re focusing on houses. Because again, houses are great as well. Obviously, I’m a real estate agent, I know that. What’s cool about land is it really simplifies it and I do think it’s a great strategy for rookies. Because when we’re talking about ARV, you know what the ARV is? What the builder tells you, they tell you, these are my parameters to buy in this area. Of course, you’re going to qualify, you’re going to ask some of these questions, so these are the type of questions you’re going to ask.
How big do you need the lots to be? Do they have utilities or not, or do you require them to have utilities or not? If it has an endangered species on the lot. Will you buy it or not? If so, how does that change the price? What’s your maximum price in this area? Once you do all that qualification, you’re not really trying to underwrite the deal, you’re underwriting it to the needs of your client. Because essentially, it becomes your buyer when you realize, hey, I have somebody that told me if I can find them this, this, this and this, I will buy it. You feel so much more confident trying to put together your deals, trying to find that land when you know for a fact they’re going to buy it if I give them what they’re looking for. I honestly forgot how I got off on this tangent, but just remember that.

Ashley:
I do want to know, have you bought a lot with an endangered species on it?

Tony:
That’s right. I was literally thinking the same thing.

Amina:
We learned the hard way, right? One thing you’ll see a lot in this region is turtles or turtle nest. What will happen is that turtles are an endangered species, and you can’t just say, hey, I’m going to buy a lot, clear the land, and to hell with these turtles. You’re going to be in somebody’s jail. PETA is going to get you. You got to make sure that the lot doesn’t have this, doesn’t have any kind of endangered species like turtles, or if it does, a lot of times they cost a lot. They cost a lot of money to remove. They have to bring in a separate company to come in, remove the nest, remove the turtles one by one. It could be upwards of like $7,000 plus per turtle. You can imagine, if you think you have this deal, you’re good, you’re going to make this money, you got it. Now you have to go back to either the buyer and say, hey, it has turtles. Do you want it?
Of course, either some builders don’t deal with it at all, so you need to know who just is out if there’s this endangered species or if they do, they’re going to come down and have you lower the price dramatically. Usually, even more than what is required, just in case. Now you got to go back with your tail between your legs to the seller and try to keep the deal together. That’s definitely a pro-tip, is making sure that you’re asking those questions when you’re talking to sellers, or even preparing them. Expectation setting is a part of systems that people may not talk about, setting expectations on how the process is going to go. When I’m talking to the sellers, I’m like, hey, here’s how it’s going to go. We’re going to get the deal. We’re going to close it in this amount of time. However, we have this what we call feasibility study, which is the inspection period on land.
During this time, we’re going to make sure that the land is suitable to build. Some of the things that might come up that would make the land unsuitable or not suitable would be if it’s a wet land and we’d have to build up the land to a certain point to even build. Or if there’s an endangered species, we would have to maybe significantly come down on the price or cancel the deal altogether. Do you know if there are any endangered species on your lot? Have you ever heard about any nests on your lot? When’s the last time you’ve been to the lot? There’s certain indications as well that you can have that tell you, hey, maybe I need to go and drive that lot. Because you can do this virtually, and your market doesn’t have to be anywhere near where you are. You can be in Tokyo, wholesaling land in Orlando.
If you have some indications that there may be an issue with the lot or maybe there’s something you need to go and look at, that’s when you want to say, hey, let me drive the lot. Let me send somebody out there to drive the lot. Or what I love about a lot of builders is that they have their own land acquisition specialists or whatever, so they go drive the lot. Again, another barrier to entry is absolved there because a lot of times with wholesaling houses, you’re hoping that the inspection of the walkthrough goes well. Whereas a lot of times before you even get the landowner contracts, a lot of the builders will already have one of their representatives go and put their eyes on it. You feel very confident and like, this deal is going to go through. I’m giving them the price that they want. It’s in the area they want. They’re building a bunch of other houses over here, and somebody’s already put their eyes on it. Now, let me just make sure I don’t mess this up on the backend.

Ashley:
We had something happened at a property we purchased. It wasn’t an endangered species, it was more of a nuisance. We had beavers that had taken over three of the ponds while they would dam up the drainage flow that went under the driveway and shove all their mud and sticks in there. My business partner would be out there some days with a shovel, dig it back out or whatever. Well, it ended up overflowing, wash out our $27,000 driveway, flooded one of the cabins, and our brand-new cabinets had been in there, but luckily, they didn’t get ruined. They were over to the other side, but completely washed out the driveway. With the beavers, you can’t really do anything with them. You have to hire a certified trapper, somebody who has a trapper’s license to trap them and either take their fur, remove them from the property. It was a huge hassle and ordeal. We eventually found somebody who was a licensed trapper to come, and they do it as a hobby, but we are finally beaver free, I’ll say.

Tony:
Since it’s story time, I got to share my story. We also had an endangered species at one of our properties, but it was actually a plant. We invest near a Joshua Tree, and the Joshua Tree is an endangered species in California. We had one in our front yard, and we’ve had a few issues with this tree. The first issue was that we had a septic issue at that property, and we had to dig to get to the septic tank, but they wouldn’t let us dig because the tank was too close to the Joshua Tree.

Amina:
Oh, my God.

Tony:
Before any plumber could go in there and do work, we had to get a certified arborist. How you become a certified arborist, I don’t even know. They gave us, no, there’s not even a list of the county to say, hey, here are the people that you should, so we just had to ask around the city to say, who knows a certified arborist? They came in and did whatever they had to do to approve it. The last part of the story is that the tree eventually fell over. There was super high winds in Joshua Tree one day, and the tree literally just fell over on its own. It was out of the ground. The roots were up. It was just laying there sideways.
We couldn’t even move the tree without getting approval. This whole endangered species thing is pretty crazy, pretty real. If the real estate business ever goes belly up, I know I can go trap beavers, I could go move turtles or I could move some Joshua Trees, and I’m probably doing just fine. Amina, you shared a lot of great content on today’s call. Really appreciate that. I guess what I’m curious with is what do you feel is next for you in real estate investing now that you’ve done this a few times, you’ve built a successful business, what’s next?

Amina:
I really want to develop. I want to get into, I was thinking about the fix and flip strategy, but the more that I work with developers on both the wholesaling side and on the residential real estate side, I’m just really attracted to creating a product that an end buyer, like a retail buyer would love. I want to bring homes to the market, and I want to partner with some of the industry professionals and providers and things like that, that I’ve met along the way to make that happen. I don’t know exactly when that’s going to happen, but I’m super excited to figure out how I can get there and put a product on the market that I would love, that I would love to sell to my retail buyers.

Ashley:
Well, Amina, thank you so much for joining us today. Is there any last tips that you have for a first-time home buyer?

Amina:
I would say that my favorite quote is that if you can see it in your mind, you can hold it in your hand. I think that my entire journey started with just this thought that maybe there was something more. I didn’t look at the top of the mountain and think, you know what? I’m going to be there tomorrow. I just took it step-by-step with a simple Google search, how to get into real estate. Then I kept an open mind and I allowed it to take me in so many different directions. When I first started, I never thought that I would build a business in real estate on the residential side, that I would have 70 agents that I recruited to the brokerage that I would work for, that I would have a TV show about first-time home buyers, that me and my best friend would partner to start a wholesaling land company.
It all started with just that thought and not psyching myself out. I love the stories that you guys gave about how you navigated some of those endangered species and some of those problems, because I think a lot of times when new agents or new investors come across an issue, they think that, that’s the end of me, or Amina wouldn’t go through this, or Ashley and Tony, if I was better, if I was more like them, they wouldn’t go through this. It’s like, these things happen. You just got to charge it to the game, and if you can stay in it, then you can be successful. You just got to find your way.

Tony:
Amina, I love, love that advice. Now, one last question, and I think this might be the most important question of the show. Now, you host a TV show called First-Time Home Buyer’s Club, and I happen to know that this show is on Oprah Winfrey’s network. We’ve been trying diligently to get Oprah on this Rookie Podcast. Can you make the connection for us?

Amina:
You know what? This business is all about building relationships, and you never know when it’s going to come in handy. I’m going to put that in my pocket and when I meet her, because I haven’t yet, I might just have to slip her your names.

Tony:
Slip the name in there. There you go.

Ashley:
Your phone number, Tony.

Tony:
We need Auntie Oprah on the Rookie podcast, so get her over here.

Ashley:
Well, Amina, just to wrap up, thank you for the mini-masterclass on exactly the systems you use to build out your processes. I don’t think we’ve ever had such a great breakdown, and then sharing your experience with having a mentor and how important that can be. Then also, just learning about land deals and doing your due diligence, what you need to know when you’re considering purchasing property, whether to wholesale, to flipper, whatever to build on. Thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared with us. If you want to learn more about Amina or you want to check out her TV show, we’re going to link all of her information into the show notes. You can find them in the description below on your favorite YouTube channel, Real Estate Rookie, or on your favorite podcast platform. I’m Ashley, and he’s Tony. Thank you, guys, so much for listening, and we’ll see you on the next episode.

Rithm Capital CEO Michael Nierenberg joins ‘Squawk on the Street’ to discuss the company’s acquisition of Sculptor Capital Management, how concerned the chief executive is about the commercial real estate market, and more.

If you dream of becoming a real estate investor but work at Walmart, you could well be on your way to realizing your dream much sooner than you think. This comes with one important caveat: You’d need to manage a Walmart store to enjoy the financial benefits that could set you up with the cash needed to invest.

Walmart U.S. announced last week that it would be giving its store managers stock grants in the company. The announcement comes after Walmart also made the decision to raise managers’ salaries and introduce a new bonus structure that will allow store managers to earn up to 200% of their salary in annual bonuses. 

How Much Will Walmart Managers Earn? 

The company announced that starting from its 2024 fiscal year, which begins in February, the average store manager’s salary will go up from $117,000 to $128,000. The new salary range will be between $90,000 and $170,000, which raises the starting salary substantially from the previous $65,000 benchmark. In addition, Walmart will do a 3-for-1 stock split at the end of February—something it hasn’t done since 1999.

Where things get truly lucrative is in the new bonus structure and the latest decision to give employees in some categories company stock grants. Under the new policy, managers can earn up to $404,000 per year in total if they get the performance-based bonus on top of their salary. 

The stock grants of up to $20,000 will be issued to Walmart managers, with a vested period of three years. The total amount of the stock grant will depend on the size of the store the employee is managing. 

The full $20,000 will be given to Supercenter managers. Supercenters are the biggest Walmart stores, about 180,000 square feet in size, and require managers to oversee hundreds of employees. Managers of Neighborhood Market stores and Division 1 stores, which are smaller, will get $15,000 in stock grants. Hometown store leaders will get $10,000 in stock grants. 

The beauty of the stock grant program is that it’s essentially free stock given to an employee by the company. You don’t have to buy stock—although that is also an option at Walmart, and the company will match 15% of the employee’s purchase, up to $1,800 a year. With stock grants, the vesting period is the period the employee must remain at the company in order to be able to cash in the stock. Walmart’s managers will be given the stock in installments, one-twelfth of the total each quarter until the three-year period is up. 

So How Does This Help Budding Real Estate Investors?

The biggest stumbling block for people who want to invest in real estate is not having enough cash to invest with. Currently, BiggerPockets recommends saving $60,000 before you begin investing. 

If you were a Walmart manager, how long would it take you to get there? We know that to be able to exchange the stock grant for cash, you’d need to work at Walmart as a store manager for three years. That would get you between $10,000 and $20,000, depending on the type of store you were managing. 

The bonus money is a less reliable figure. First, 200% of your salary is the maximum bonus amount, and the bonus is performance-based. And the $400,000 total would only apply to managers earning at the top of the salary range. 

Instead, let’s take the new average Walmart manager’s salary of $128,000. Imagine that you did get the full 200% bonus for three years straight. That would give you a gross income of $1,152,000. 

But that’s before tax. On average, after tax, you can expect to take home around 75% of that amount. So, in reality, you’d get something like $864,000. How much of that you’d be able to set aside for investing will vary depending on where you live, but let’s say your living costs are close to the national average of $61,334 per year. Potentially, then, you could have a huge $680,000 to play with—and that’s before the stock grant money.

And if you didn’t get the bonus? You would only have $288,000 after tax at the end of the three years, plus the $15,000 (after tax). That’s $303,000; after subtracting your average living costs, you’d still have a very decent $119,000 to play around with. Therefore, in only three years of working as a Walmart store manager, you could have enough cash to build a real estate portfolio. 

Of course, you would likely start off on the lower end of the Walmart manager salary range, at $90,000. But once you break into that average salary territory, you could have substantial amounts of money to set aside for your investments. 

You May Be Closer to Investing Than You Think

The takeaway from this exercise is this: If you have a regular day job, you’re not necessarily locked out of the possibilities of growing your wealth through real estate investing. In fact, the vast majority of Walmart managers (75%) started out as hourly wage workers. 

And while college graduates do work at Walmart, you don’t need a degree. Sure, it may take a while to get promoted to a managerial position, but it’s not out of reach, and it doesn’t require you to go into massive amounts of college debt. 

So if you’re looking for a lucrative career that will help you generate wealth over a relatively short amount of time, working at Walmart could well be it. Or you can use the Walmart example to look for jobs at companies that similarly offer good financial incentives for staff retention, like performance-based bonuses and stock grants.

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In the ongoing quest for happiness, a recent Empower poll disclosed that around 60% of Americans believe money can indeed buy happiness. 

However, the dynamics of money’s role vary from person to person. For 67% of respondents, happiness hinges on the ability to pay bills on time, while more than half prioritize living debt-free and enjoying luxury without financial worry. Another 45% see homeownership as integral to their path to happiness.

Current Financial Realities

Even with a median household income of approximately $74,000 annually, Empower’s findings suggest Americans feel the need for an income of around $284,000 per year to achieve happiness. Respondents believed they required $1.2 million in the bank to feel content ($1.7 million for millennials), surpassing the median net worth of U.S. households, currently standing at $192,900, per the Federal Reserve’s 2022 data.

Moreover, these revelations come at a time when economic stress is on the rise in America. With inflation persisting for over a year, 81% of poll participants feel burdened by rising costs, and 66% attribute their diminished sense of financial well-being to elevated interest rates.

The reality is that the financial landscape is evolving, sparking intriguing questions about the intersection of finance and happiness and reigniting the age-old debate about whether monetary wealth is a genuine gateway to contentment.

Or is there another way to change our relationship with money and its connection to our happiness while we are on our wealth-building journey?

Living Happy Now (and in the Future): The Happiness Formula

Changing your money mindset is a crucial first step to transforming your relationship with money and perceived happiness. The Happiness Formula is based on Vishen’s work, a pragmatic approach to identifying and pursuing true happiness. This exercise transcends wishful thinking, grounded in actionable steps designed to align personal aspirations with a fulfilling life. 

Here are the steps to follow.

Step 1: Name what doesn’t make you happy

Humans are way better at stating what we don’t want than naming what we do want—it’s our brain’s way of protecting us. So why not use this natural instinct to your advantage and create space—mentally or literally?  

On a sheet of paper, jot down all the commitments, people, belongings, and even investments that are weighing on your mind and aspects of your life that bring discomfort. Once you have this list crafted, you don’t actually have to act on anything—yet. By just acknowledging the things in your life that are weighing on you, your brain will start to find ways to help you out—setting the stage for the next crucial step in the pursuit of happiness.

Step 2: Identifying your happiness formula

In this step, grab another piece of paper and answer these questions to craft your unique Happiness Formula based on the experiences, growth, and contribution you want in your life. If you have a partner, spouse, or kids, consider doing this exercise with them after you have taken your initial pass.

• What do you want to experience? Think of all the experiences—new and old—that you want to bring into your life or that bring joy. Consider all the local, national, and international experiences that you dream of doing. This might range from exploring the vibrant local culture of your community and attending music or cultural events with loved ones to embarking on international adventures that broaden your horizons.
• How do you want to grow? What makes most people happy isn’t hitting a goal but the change and progress they make along the way to hitting the goal. For this question, reflect on the personal and professional growth you dream of making. Identify the skills, mindset, and knowledge needed to propel yourself forward. Recognize that growth extends beyond the workplace, encompassing personal aspirations that enhance overall life quality.
• How do you want to give back? When most people consider how they give back, they think they have to donate a sizeable chunk of money or time to a specific cause or charity. However, I challenge you to think of all the ways you can give back—whether through time, money, or yourself.

I’ll also give you a big hint—giving back doesn’t have to be some grandiose gesture. Sure, for most busy people, regularly donating (ideally monthly) to a cause important to you is probably the simplest place to start. However, also think of the impact you can create by sharing your time and expertise with your community—be it writing a blog, attending a meetup, creating a podcast, or if you are a parent, investing more time with your kids. Most importantly, ensure how you contribute aligns with your life vision.

Putting the Happiness Formula Into Action

Now that you have the gist of the Happiness Formula, schedule time on your calendar to regularly check off items, cross off items that no longer align, and add new ones. If you have a partner, spouse, or kids, have each individual complete their own Happiness Formula exercise and come together as a group to see how you can support each other.

Final Thoughts

The Empower poll sheds light on how people think happiness comes with a price, making everyone take a closer look at what really matters to them—thus wrestling with the delicate dance between pursuing financial freedom and living a fulfilling life. 

In the constantly shifting money scene, the Happiness Formula is a down-to-earth approach to steer through personal dreams and cook up some real contentment. In the end, happiness might have a price tag, but figuring out your own special formula could be the secret sauce to unlocking a truly satisfying and happy life.

Protect your wealth legacy with an ironclad generational wealth plan

Taxes, insurance, interest, fees, bills…how can you acquire wealth, let alone pass it down, when there are major pitfalls at every turn? In Money for Tomorrow, Whitney will help you build an ironclad wealth plan so you can safeguard your hard-earned wealth and pass it on for generations to come.  

Note By BiggerPockets: These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.

Marc Lipschultz, Blue Owl co-founder and co-CEO, joins ‘Money Movers’ to discuss the current environment for private credit, what banks reentering the lending space means for Blue Owl, and more.

“You’re making too much money.”

That’s what echoed in Missouri native Ryan Haywood’s ears after his boss decided to slash his commissions—a “sales haircut,” as it’s bitterly known in the industry. 

This notion of being penalized for success was perplexing for Ryan. Out of all the downsides of his job—the after-hours calls from his boss that he was expected to answer, dealing with poor management, and working up to 80 hours a week—this pay cut was the last straw. He didn’t realize it at the time, but this setback was about to unveil a path that would lead his family toward the future that Ryan and his wife Megan had dreamt about.

Ryan’s story that I’m about to share is not just a testament to his determination to build his wealth on his own terms. This story is about his strategic, practical approach to building a truly successful real estate company in the face of uncertainty, full of solid insights that every investor should hear.

Ryan’s Journey From Sales to Real Estate

It was the end of 2019. Ryan and Megan were in a period that should have been filled with anticipation and joy for their family as they awaited the arrival of their third child. 

Instead, uncertainty loomed. Despite the lucrative nature of his job in the budding field of fiber optics, the instability and lack of appreciation left Ryan yearning for change. He was caught in a dilemma: a high-paying position that offered little in terms of job satisfaction and stability. And to make matters worse, the company he worked for just decided to cut a large chunk of his pay because he was making too many sales.

Ryan knew something had to change; he just hadn’t yet realized what that change would be. Shortly after receiving this news, Megan and Ryan had their third child. This meant Ryan was on paternity leave and suddenly had extra time on his hands. He wasn’t sure what his next steps would be—all he knew was that he couldn’t go back to the toxic workplace at his current 9 to 5 job.

It was during this time that Ryan’s wife Megan stumbled across a 30-day wholesaling challenge on Instagram and brought it up to Ryan. They had dabbled in real estate investing years prior with a couple of rentals but had been paying them very little attention. Ryan wasn’t initially interested in the idea of wholesaling, and the idea of a “30-day challenge on social media” seemed a bit like a gimmick at the moment, so he declined.

But after some thought and some persistence from Megan, he decided to give it a go. As it turns out, this challenge not only introduced him to the fundamentals of wholesaling but also ignited a passion for real estate that was previously untapped.

Initial Steps and Challenges

After pushing past his initial reluctance, Ryan went full steam ahead on trying to win the challenge—this meant landing your first wholesale deal within 30 days. This entailed driving for dollars to find distressed properties, reaching out to the homeowners (in Ryan’s case, via direct mail), and securing a purchase contract from the seller that Ryan would then assign to an end buyer.

Contrary to his later experiences, Ryan’s first deal came from word of mouth (in this case, that meant telling people around him at dinner what he was doing) and did not involve intricate negotiations directly with a seller. Instead, it was the process of learning on the fly—figuring out how to assess the value of properties and the cost of needed repairs with limited prior knowledge in this area. 

Despite these initial uncertainties and the steep learning curve, Ryan’s persistence paid off when he secured his first real estate deal. This pivotal moment was not only a testament to the validity of his new career focus; it also resulted in a significant payoff, earning him an $8,500 finder’s fee. 

Like many investors who came before him say, this deal was massively important. And not just because of the $8,500 check—that was just the icing on the cake. This deal was a proof of concept that wholesaling as a strategy works. In other words, the business model was proven right in front of his eyes.

Ryan admits he was still “terrified” of wholesaling at this point since he still had very little knowledge and understanding of the industry. Nevertheless, with the check in hand, he knew that this was the path forward for him and his family.

When the challenge was all said and done, Ryan ended up landing two deals in 30 days, totaling $28,500. This number was the base salary at his last job. He had successfully escaped the rat race and, as it turns out, would never set foot in his old office again.

Scaling Up and Embracing Technology

Ryan and Megan’s focus at that point then became getting more deals and repeating the process. From the very beginning, they knew that they wanted it to be a family venture, even packing up the kids and bringing them on business trips to ensure that everyone was benefiting from experiencing the lifestyle that was bringing them so much success.

They needed reliable, efficient tech to manage processes and allow them to actually find success while traveling to new markets and cities to explore investment opportunities. Thanks to DealMachine, the tech platform at the center of the 30-day challenge, they were able to travel while still building and working on their business.

Because of their adoption of technology, scaling came naturally for them. Wholesaling is a numbers game—to grow your business; you need more leads, more marketing, and people in key positions to help ensure a smooth pipeline. DealMachine helped them with all of this and then some, allowing the leads to keep flowing and marketing to continue on autopilot while Ryan and Megan focused on the most important parts of the business and spending time together as a family.

To get a deeper insight into how they scaled from getting their first few deals, here’s a breakdown of the numbers in the first couple years of their business:

• First full year (2020): Achieved 73 wholesale transactions with no standard operating procedures (SOPs) or employees—just Ryan and Megan working together.
• Following year (2021): Completed 113 wholesale transactions, indicating significant growth. This year also saw the introduction of a transaction coordinator (TC) and a salesperson, though they quickly quit. A new TC was hired, who eventually took on sales as well due to competence in this area.
• Year after (2022): Conducted 45 wholesale transactions, which might seem like a decrease but was part of a strategic shift to focus on quality and integrate construction into their business model. The team grew to eight people, and the average assignment fee increased to $10,500.
• Portfolio growth: From seven rentals in 2020 to 12 by the end of 2021, and then expanding their portfolio to 30 properties.
• Financial highlights: In 2021, they grossed $575,000, and in 2022 broke over the million-dollar mark in revenue.
• Operational shift: Started their own construction crew in 2022 to better control the renovation quality and timeline of their investment properties.

Networking and Community Building

In their pursuit of growing their business, Ryan and Megan Haywood not only built relationships with city officials but also mended fences with local real estate agents who were initially wary of wholesalers. Their efforts in renovating distressed properties across St. Joseph, Missouri, garnered Ryan the nickname “golden child” from the mayor, underscoring the impact of their work on the community’s fabric. 

This special recognition from city leadership demonstrated the benefits of their strategic relationships, highlighting how working closely with city officials was instrumental in smoothing the path for their projects and fostering an environment of mutual benefit.

These partnerships proved to be highly important in navigating the complexities of real estate development, from regulatory compliance to accessing new opportunities that aligned with their mission to uplift the community. Because the city officials (people who are often the gateway to successfully securing permits and zoning for building projects around a city) could physically see that Ryan was creating positive change, they were happy to help him. 

Some of these officials, with deep knowledge of the city’s housing, even became a source of leads for their business and guided them to properties and areas around St. Joseph that needed change. Alongside this, their engagement with agents eventually shifted from skepticism to collaboration as they demonstrated the value and professionalism they brought to the table with these relationships as well.

For Ryan and Megan, the lesson was clear: Building a network that includes both city officials and real estate professionals can significantly amplify an investor’s ability to effect positive change while scaling their business effectively.

Lessons Learned

Looking at Ryan Haywood’s journey through the real estate landscape, there are several lessons we can learn from them. By achieving over 400 deals so far, Ryan has not only showcased what’s possible with dedication and strategic planning but also exemplified the significance of adopting certain practices for long-term success. 

Here are some key takeaways from his experience, each providing a blueprint for how to navigate the complexities of real estate investing effectively:

Embrace community engagement

Ryan’s success was significantly bolstered by building strong ties with community leaders and real estate professionals. This highlights the value of networking, not just for deal flow but for fostering a supportive ecosystem that can propel your business forward.

Leverage technology for efficiency

Utilizing a real estate tech platform allowed Ryan to scale his operations by streamlining the process of identifying and managing potential deals. For investors, embracing such technologies can enhance productivity, allowing more time to focus on strategic decision-making.

Adopt a mission-driven approach

Having a clear mission, such as improving the community, can differentiate you in a crowded market. Ryan’s focus on revitalization projects earned him the “golden child” nickname, underscoring the impact of aligning business goals with community values.

Final Thoughts

Ryan Haywood’s path in real estate is a compelling story of strategic growth, innovation, and impactful community engagement. His progression from executing individual deals to achieving over 400 transactions is not merely a story of personal success but a blueprint for investors aiming to elevate their business practices. 

Haywood’s story highlights the critical role of embracing technology to streamline business operations, the power of networking in your local community and beyond to unlock new opportunities, and the impact that can come from fostering both business growth and community development.

For investors looking to replicate Ryan’s success, the key takeaway is the value of strategic adaptability—integrating new tools/methods and pushing forward while also remaining rooted in the community’s welfare and having a bigger “why.” This story shows that achievements in real estate require not just good financial judgment but a vision that extends beyond personal gain.

This article is presented by DealMachine

DealMachine empowers real estate professionals to discover and invest in off-market properties with ease, offering a comprehensive app that guides you every step of the way. From identifying potential investments to instantly accessing high-quality homeowner data for informed decision-making, we make investing simple and effective. Click to start expanding your portfolio today!

Note By BiggerPockets: These are opinions written by the author and do not necessarily represent the opinions of BiggerPockets.

Dave:
Hey everyone. Welcome to On The Market. I’m your host, Dave Meyer. Today we’re going to be talking about the big news everyone’s thinking about, which is of course, the Super Bowl. I don’t know, is everyone thinking about it? Do you guys think about this? Well, Kathy, you clearly do because you’re wearing some sort of football uniform today. What jersey is this?

Kathy:
This is actually the Cardinals, and it is Devon Kennard, who is coming out with a BiggerPockets book very soon.

Dave:
That makes a lot of sense.

Kathy:
And his first interview on real estate was on my show, The Real Wealth Show, so I got this.

Dave:
Awesome.

Kathy:
I don’t think he gave you one Dave when he was on this show though.

Dave:
I don’t have one and I’m glad though because I would not look as cool as you do in your Devon Kennard professional jersey right now. If you guys don’t know Devon, he’s an awesome real estate investor, former NFL player. He is been on this show. He’s written a book for BiggerPockets and apparently, friend of Kathy.

Henry:
I don’t follow football too much. I like football, I understand it, but I have beef with grown men in kids’ uniforms. It’s just weird to me. I’ve never been a jersey guy. Just me walking around with some young kid’s last name on my back just always seemed like a weird thing. I just can’t get with the jerseys. It’s weird for me. I don’t know.

Dave:
Is that all sports or just football?

Henry:
All sports. All sports. It’s like I would get a jersey that you customize and put your own name on the back, but I don’t know.

Dave:
You’re just rooting for yourself. You just want to root for Henry.

Henry:
And then it’s just like everybody’s running around talking about, “We got a game. Who do we play tonight?” Sir, you don’t have a game.

Kathy:
When’s the last time you ran around the block?

Henry:
You’re not on the team. They don’t even know you exist. You got to pick your kids up from daycare and you got a chiropractor’s appointment. You don’t have a game.

Dave:
James, you got to jump in here because I know you disagree.

James:
Oh, I’ve invested some serious money into my jersey game. The Super Bowl is my favorite holiday, so it is the number one holiday. Make sure my calendar’s blocked out and I will be always watching, but unfortunately the Seahawks aren’t in there, but I’m heavily invested in Seahawk swag.

Dave:
Well, that’s perfect for you, James, because today we are going to be talking about different markets that have hosted the Super Bowl. So we aren’t going to dive into the teams that are in the game. This show should be coming out I think two or three days before the Super Bowl. We have 49ers and the Chiefs matching up. But today we’re going to talk about a couple of markets that have hosted them recently and we’re going to evaluate each and every one of them about how good they are for investment or what particular strategies might work in one of those markets.
So each of us is going to take one of the last four hosts of the Super Bowl and we’re going to break them down. So James, hopefully this is an appropriate celebration for you. Henry, you could just sit there mad for the whole time, but you do have to participate because we got a game today Henry, you do have to play it. And before we do it, we also have Super Bowl trivia to talk about to see how well you do. And Henry, I’m going to make you go first.
Do you guys know what year the first Super Bowl was, Henry?

Henry:
1941.

Dave:
Kathy?

Kathy:
I think we should toss this to James. I think he’s going to know the answer, but it’s been some decades.

Dave:
That is true. Very vague but true. James?

James:
I don’t know the exact year, but I know it was somewhere in the ’60s because there was two leagues and they merged them back when there was two leagues. I think Henry was close when there was two, but when the NFL came together, I think ’60s, somewhere in there.

Dave:
All right, James, you’re correct. It was 1967, so it was Chiefs versus Packers in 1967.

Kathy:
Guys.

Dave:
That was the first Super Bowl.

Kathy:
I’m older than the Super Bowl.

Dave:
Well, you’ve been around for some decades also, Kathy.

Kathy:
Thank you. Yes.

Dave:
That’s how old you are, some decades. Could be 20.

Kathy:
Thank you.

Dave:
All right, I’ll ask you one more trivia question and spare you. Maybe I’ll just ask James, see if he knows. Which two starting quarterbacks won the Super Bowl with two different teams?

Henry:
Are they currently playing?

James:
No, they’re not. This is easy though because it’s fairly recent.

Henry:
Okay. Okay. Okay.

Kathy:
This is easy. This seems easy. Yep. I even know this one.

Dave:
Okay.

James:
Two of the greatest. You got Tom Brady-

Dave:
And?

James:
-And Peyton Manning, because Peyton Manning won it with the Colts and the Broncos.

Dave:
Bravo. Well done James. That was a good one.

James:
Can we get Tom Brady on the On The Market podcast? I would love to interview Tom Brady.

Dave:
I don’t think we have that kind of pull, man. Kaylin just slacked us and said that she’s going to work on it.

Kathy:
Oh, he’s probably listening right now. Yeah.

Dave:
Yeah, he definitely listens. So we’ll get him on here any day now.

James:
There’s two man crushes I have, Tom Brady and Mark Wahlberg. Those are the two. Mark Wahlberg, if we could get him on too, that would be a great show.

Dave:
Mark Walberg? Okay. Who knew? All right, well we should probably move on from football, even though I’m excited about the Super Bowl. And what’s cool about the Super Bowl is we’re all going to be together for the Super Bowl this year. We’re going to be together in Denver at a Super Bowl party, which will be very fun. And if any of you by the way are in the Denver area the day after, so the 12th, we’re hosting a BiggerPockets meetup in Denver. So if you’re in the Colorado area, James, Henry, Kathy, myself and the other podcast hosts will all be there. So go check that out.
But we’ve talked enough about football, let’s get into real estate after this break.
All right, Kathy, you are the best dressed for this event today by far.

Kathy:
Thank you so much.

Dave:
For those of you who aren’t watching on YouTube, it’s like full shoulder pads. It is a really good outfit right now.

Henry:
Yeah, it’s a legitimate game jersey. It’s not one you go and buy from the store.

Dave:
It’s like a professional game jersey and-

Kathy:
It shows my guns. Look at that.

Dave:
It does. It does show your guns. And because you’re doing so great today, we’re going to have you go first. Tell us about the market you’ve been researching as a recent host of the Super Bowl.

Kathy:
Well, this city had the Super Bowl five times. The population is 3.2 million and the population growth is 1.9%. Unemployment is at a very low 3.1%. Median income is $60,000 approximately, and the median rent is about $2,000. Rent growth has been 2.7%, which seems low, but maybe high considering this past year. And the median home prices, $372,000 with price growth at a whopping 1%. Who knows what city this is?

Dave:
I do because reading it.

Kathy:
In your notes.

Dave:
Yeah, I’m reading it. Yeah, I could see it. It’s Tampa, Florida. I’ll help you out.

Kathy:
Thank you.

Dave:
Tom. Brady’s most recent Super Bowl winning team.

Kathy:
Yeah, so Tampa, Florida, would I invest there? Not only would I. I do, but not specifically in the city. And I think this is something that people should really pay attention to is they’ll see these big city names as a great place to invest, but oftentimes it’s not actually in the city, it’s in the surrounding suburbs where it just gotten too expensive in the city and people move out and jobs move out because they can get cheaper land and so forth. So we do invest, but not in Tampa, just right outside, mainly St. Petersburg, but in and around Tampa.

Dave:
Kathy, actually tell us a little bit about that because a lot of what we talk about here on the show is sort of at the metro level, like the whole metropolitan area, but you’re talking about differentiating it. So when you first started investing in that area, how did you decide that St. Pete was a better option for investing than the downtown area of Tampa?

Kathy:
Well, when I first, first started investing in Tampa, it was in 2009 when the housing market had completely crashed and I was in a different city pretty much every day just trying to pick up the pieces of that mess. There were whole neighborhoods boarded up, Tampa, most of Florida in fact, was one of the areas that got hit the hardest because it was one of the areas where investors went a little nutty and it was pre-demographic growth there. So they had the right idea, they were just too early basically into Florida. So that area went up the highest and then came crashing down the hardest.
So when I went to Tampa, we were finding properties for 20 to $30,000 if you can believe that downtown. But the issue was crime. So in a lot of these areas where if you have a lot of boarded homes, you’d have vagrants, you’d have drug dealers, it completely transformed what had been a middle class neighborhood into a D class neighborhood. So for me, Tampa was, it was just too scary to invest there in those neighborhoods. So we just needed to look out. Part of what I do is finding property managers and teams, people who can help me at the time find those foreclosures, help me, I live in California, I didn’t want to oversee it myself, so find teams. And one of those teams was showing the growth that was happening in St. Petersburg.
The suburban areas tend to have less crime in general, not always, but it was really just the property manager and local team that I found there that gave me the insight on where they’re investing. And again, that’s how I do it When you’re investigating a city, I think going, walking it, talking to people, going to the Starbucks, learning where do people like to live, but most importantly really getting to know the property managers and where they invest because they know all the secrets. They know where who’s calling and who’s wanting to rent.

Dave:
I mean that’s a great situation. I’m sure people who are listening to this now want to invest in Tampa are a little bit jealous. Are there still good options to invest in either Tampa or St. Pete or in that metro area?

James:
I think Tampa is on the upswing for numerous reasons. A, I still believe there’s a lot of relocation coming out of California, coming out of New York, and Tampa is a very hot place for people to move to. The beaches are awesome, the quality of living’s good, and they’re also improving the city. They announced actually in 2023 that the violent crime rate actually went down. And so they’re really working and I know the whole state of Florida is working on getting the crime down, especially the violent crime, but they’re making progress with their policies. And that’s also why it was ranked number eight is one of the best places to live in America as quality of living.
And so I think with these strides and then still that the attractiveness of Florida from a lot of some of these states with very high income tax, I think there’s still a lot of runway there. I personally would move to Tampa if it wasn’t such a long commute flight to Seattle. And so I still think there’s going to be a migration in. Lower taxes, crime decreasing versus if you look at some parts of California it’s increasing, and so quality of living’s going. It’s just coming around. It’s attractive. I would move there for sure.

Dave:
So what would you recommend Kathy to people who are interested in this area? What kind of tactics work right now?

Kathy:
I think in Tampa city, in the city area, I imagine there’s still lots of opportunity to renovate. If you’ve got the skills of James Daynard or Henry Washington and you have teams set up there and can find older properties, fix them up. It’s a growing city for sure. And James wasn’t kidding, those beaches are gorgeous, but prices have been high. I mean prices have gone up quite a lot since 2009, so it is going to be a little bit more expensive versus again, the suburbs.

Dave:
Tampa, I totally agree. I actually remember, I think it was our second show ever, we all picked markets that we really liked and I think Tampa was the one I picked. There’s a lot to like there on the fundamentals level, but you have to adjust tactics and sort of make sure that you’re using the right ones for an expensive type of market. With that, after we’ve talked about Tampa, let’s move on to our second city. And for that, let’s go to James.

James:
All right, the market I’m covering is Los Angeles, one of the biggest cities in our country. It has hosted the Super Bowl eight times. Their new stadium, SoFi Stadium, is absolutely amazing. I’ve been there a few different times. I do know that they did what Los Angeles likes to do and overspend and overbuild. I think they spent what, $4 billion building the stadium, which was four times what they spent in Atlanta. But anyways, population is 12,872,000, and the concern is the population growth has dropped by 0.77% this year. People are starting to leave California. Expensive life, a little bit more crime, and they’re looking elsewhere to make their dollar stretch. Unemployment is at 4.9% and the median home price, and like Kathy mentioned, it depends if you’re in city or out of city because if you’re in LA proper, it’s going to be substantially more. And then the median rent is at $2,858, with rent growth of 2%.
And now typically, and I’ve seen too with LA, it gets steady, rent growth, because of the regulation to where you can only increase it at a certain points. So there’s very steady, but it’s never really jumping that high. LA is just one of those big cities that you can make a lot of money in, invest in, especially I think if you’re a developer or flipper, it’s kind of the best avenues to look at doing there because there’s still a lot of money pouring in, inventory’s still low. And even with I think some of the issues that LA’s having right now, people are still attracted to it. It’s still that, “Hey, we want to move to LA,” that LA dream. And I think it’s good for the short term.
Personally, I would never invest there long term. There is way too much rent control going on. There’s a ton of regulation. And if I was looking at any So Cal market, I would actually pick Orange County over LA because we are seeing some massive growth in Orange County because the crime that’s going on in LA, people are reloading out, they don’t want to move off that coast of California because they can’t find a better spot, but they are going to places that are a little bit more stable. I know in Newport Beach, we’re seeing prices just climb year over year and it’s all that LA money selling and bringing the cash down south.

Dave:
So long story short James, and thank you for sharing all that information, that’s really helpful, would you invest there?

James:
I would not invest there. For me, I want to invest in climates that welcome development and growth. And there are so many regulations just pumping through California on the regular. In addition to the biggest concern is what is happening in the back end is causing massive problems. You can’t even get home insurance. It is near impossible to get home insurance in California. That is a basic need of investors and homeowners. And when you have a basic need that’s being taken off the table, that can cause issues in the market in general. It is crazy what you have to do to get just even that simplest thing, home insurance. If you want to buy a property, there’s so much regulation between what you can do. So if I was forced to invest there, I would flip and do development. I want to be in and out. I don’t want their hands on me for longer than 12 months and get out. But I would definitely pick elsewhere.
And also tying into the football, I have a fundamental problem investing in LA, the LA Rams, or investing in San Francisco, San Francisco 49ers. I just won’t support them.

Kathy:
Hey now.

Henry:
See, this is the problem with sports fanatics is you’ll make financial decisions about your money and wealth based on absolutely nothing that has to do with finances. The fanaticism is insane to me.

Dave:
I grew up in New York and I’m a big Yankees fan and I for work for a while had to move to Boston. And it wasn’t just financial decisions, I was just a miserable person for six months. I just hated every single thing I saw or did for six months. It really does impact your whole life, Henry. You just start committing yourself to this.

Kathy:
And James, those were fighting words about the 49ers. I’m third generation San Franciscan. Not anymore. I did move to LA County, but I mean what a story though. Come on you guys. You have to admit that the 49er Brock Purdy story is amazing. He was third string, he was considered Mr. Irrelevant. Let Brock Purdy completely inspire you to never give up, never give up.

James:
Very relevant, love the guy’s story, but I hope he gets smashed by the Chiefs in the Super Bowl. There’s a lot of players I like individually on the 49ers, but as a whole they get crushed and I’m happy.

Dave:
Well, I don’t think anyone here is standing up for LA as an investing market. There’s a lot, like James said. Personally, I’ve never spent a lot of time in LA but it does seem like the stats don’t seem overly encouraging.
All right, we are going to take a quick break. Just to remind everyone, we talked about Tampa, which everyone did seem to think had strong fundamentals. Talked about LA next, which probably overpriced. James talked about regulations that probably weren’t good for investing. And after this, I will share the market that I’m going to be sharing, and so will Henry.
Welcome back everyone. Now for our third market, I’ll be sharing, so happy I get this city, it is one of my favorite cities in the country, the world. I love visiting this city so much. It has maybe the best sandwich I’ve ever had in my whole life, and that is not an exaggeration. It is New Orleans, Louisiana, and I know I don’t know how to say it correctly. I’m from the Northeast, I’m proud, I’m sorry. But New Orleans, Louisiana has hosted the Super Bowl a whopping 10 times. It has a large population but it is declining. So that is something that I personally think of as a red flag when I invest anywhere is a population that’s declining. It’s not necessarily something that you can’t invest in, but it’s something that I worry about. Would any of you invest somewhere where the population is declining?

Kathy:
I have. I wouldn’t do it again. What about you Henry?

Henry:
It depends on how long. If it’s a decline, I’m seeing a decline over five years history, then probably not. But if it’s a blip on the radar, then I probably wouldn’t have a problem with it.

Dave:
That’s a good point, Henry, because I wonder how much of it is COVID and migration patterns changed so much, and some of them are proving and looking like they’re permanent, or at least not permanent, but the trends are enduring past just the pandemic. But some of them are starting to reverse. So I do think you probably do want to follow Henry’s advice and look a little bit broader there.
But the one thing that does tend to happen with lower population, lower growth cities is oftentimes you find that there is better cashflow potential. And that stood out to me when I looked at some of the stats here about New Orleans is that the rent to price ratio is about 0.7. That is more than double what it was in LA and significantly higher than it was in Tampa. And so it does allow for interesting cashflow opportunities, but on the other hand it’s experiencing one of the biggest corrections in the entire country with prices dropping over 8% last year. So to me, this is a little bit risky, especially it’s a market I’ve visited and enjoy visiting but don’t know much about the fundamentals. I would probably stay away from this until we saw some sort of bottoming of the market because an 8% drop, that is significant. That’s not a one-year correction. That is something that could really hurt if you were on the wrong end of that decline. Any of you have any thoughts on New Orleans?

Henry:
Well, I think New Orleans as a city is amazing. It’s probably my second favorite city in the country. I think what I want to say about all of these markets is yes, we’re giving our opinion on whether we would invest there or not, but there are investment strategies that would work in all of these markets. In terms of New Orleans, I think you’re 100% right. If you’re looking for a market where you can get cash flow, maybe you live there, it’s in your backyard, you’ve got some sort of advantage and understanding the neighborhoods and having boots on the ground and a team you can build, it’s a decent market for cashflow. New Orleans isn’t going away tomorrow because it’s had population decline, right? It’s around. It’s going to be around. And if you understand the market and you understand how to find deals, I think you can make great cash flow.
Are you getting appreciation right now? No. It’s got negative price growth, but I don’t know that that’s going to last forever as the interest rates come down. But when you look at something like Tampa, what we talked about earlier, you can almost get the best of both worlds in Tampa because of the growth that that market is seeing and because you have positive population growth and you have affordable home pricing, right? You’re at 372 there for median home price, which means you can probably go in there, find an off market deal and get it to cash flow because the median rents are $2,000. Now is going to cash flow a ton? No, probably not. So you can probably get cash flow and appreciation in Tampa if you look hard enough, where Los Angeles, you can’t hold anything there, right? You’re not going to get cash flow, but the margins on flips are amazing.
You can flip one house in California and make what it would take me like five flips to make because of the margins are so large because the home prices are so much more there. But you’ve got an inventory problem, you’ve got 12 to 13 million people, you’re going to be able to sell those homes so you can get great margins if you’re turning money. So there’s strategies that work everywhere. If you’re going to turn money, like I said, you can do a flip. I get jealous every time I see Tareq flip a house out there and make like $250,000 and I’m like that’s six flips for me. So there is a strategy that works in all of these.
In terms of New Orleans, yeah, I think you got to go for cash flow and I think you have to understand the market because another thing that’s going to play in New Orleans is crime, and so you got to understand where am I buying these homes? What’s the crime going to be like? And factor that into your strategy, your purchase price. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t invest in an area where there’s crime. I’m saying A, you got to be built for that, and B, you got to plan it into your numbers. It’s like Walmart. You think Walmart doesn’t plan for stuff to get stolen from stores? They plan it into their numbers when they’re building out stores and figuring out where they’re going to go. So you just have to understand those markets.

Kathy:
Henry, I’m just curious because you said you’d have to do five or six flips to make that same kind of money. Do you think it takes the same kind of money and time and you’re just doing one big flip five different ways and maybe that’s better diversification?

Henry:
I’d say the timeframe is no different really. A big renovation is a big renovation. It takes the same amount of time if you’ve got your teams and your contractors in place. I think the difference is the risk involved when you’re flipping in LA because of the holding costs. So if I’m doing two flips in LA and I paid $600,000 for each one of those houses and I have a 12% interest only loan from James Daynard because he charges me a whole lot of money to do that, then I’m going to have to get them things turned fast or else I’m paying James a lot of my profits.

Dave:
Then James is making the money, not you.

James:
But it may be expenses Henry, but think of your overall cash on cash return. It’s infinite.

Henry:
I keep coming back to you, so it must be good.

James:
And we are dependable. I want to touch on New Orleans real quick because it is an awesome city. I love it. It’s food, the culture, the people. An amazing, amazing city. I think it has just infrastructure problems. I think like what Henry said is really important. You can invest in any market, whether it’s LA, New Orleans, you just want to adjust your strategy. The good thing about New Orleans on flipping is you can get real high cash on cash returns. Entry level price is small. You can get construction loans. They’re usually cheaper, bigger fixture properties. And so you can lever more when you get construction loans so that the amount you’re putting down on a cheaper property at the big rehab, your cash on cash return is going to hit like 50, 60%. And it might not be the same amount of profit, but the velocity in your money is always going to keep moving and growing. And so it’s good for that.
My concern with New Orleans is they have police force problems. It’s a little bit of a lawless city when you go there. Again, I love the city, but they got some infrastructure problems and for me, I’m already an active investor in a market that has crime problems. I don’t want to go into another one. It does cause issues, cause infrastructure, and pick and choose. I’d rather balance into a safer market at that point.

Dave:
Makes sense. All right, well thank you all for sharing your input. I’m going to share one last piece of advice. If you’re in New Orleans, go to a restaurant called Cochon Butcher and get the sandwich called Le Pig Mac. It’s like a high end pig mac with really good pork patties. It is truly one of the best sandwiches I’ve ever had in my whole heart. Go check that out. This is more important to me than real estate. Henry, let’s round it out with our last market. What do you have for us?

Henry:
All right, last market of the show is Miami. Miami, Florida hosted the Super Bowl 11 times. So what about Miami? What I like about Miami here is average home price $473,000, but they’ve seen a 5.9% increase in pricing over the past year. So we’re going up in Miami in terms of values. The sale to list price ratio in Miami is 97.3%, which means things are getting listed and selling for just a little under what they’re getting listed for, which means people are buying the homes there, they’re in demand. And that is because Miami has a very rapidly growing international base that is moving there. You’ve got lots of people moving there from other countries. You’ve got a lot of people moving there, especially from Canada right now. And so you’ve got people who are always migrating into and landing in Miami and they’re buying homes. I think I read here that the demand for homes around that $1 million price point is pretty high, so people with a lot of money tend to move here and they’re wanting to buy these nicer homes.
So in terms of median rent, you’ve got median grant and about $2,700, so just under $3,000 a month for median rent. You got median income at $77,000 and your median home price is around $472,000. So Miami, I think it has some decent fundamentals. You’ve got $472,000 for the average home price, you got about $2,700 for the median rent. So to me that tells me if I can find a decent enough deal, I can probably cash flow a property, maybe break even more likely to break even than cashflow. So not a super great cash flow market, but you’ve got demand there. And I think what you really have here is a market where short-term rentals and midterm rentals would probably do well as long as the rules would allow for you to be able to do that in the different areas around Miami because it is such a tourist destination. You’ve got people always traveling there to go and have a good time.
And so I think we’ve kind of seen markets where each one of the popular real estate strategies would work. I think this is a short-term rental market where you can probably get something to pretty well as a short-term and midterm rental. It’s a flip market. You can make good profits flipping deals here because you’ve got people who want those million dollar homes. And so you could go buy a distressed property for four or five, 600,000, put a couple hundred into it and sell it for over a million because you got demand there. And if you want cash flow, you’re probably going to have to work really, really hard to find a good deal.

Kathy:
Here’s what confused me about Miami. I love Miami. I love to visit. I love Miami Beach and ride my bike there along the beach whenever I get to go there for conferences. So great city. What’s confusing to me is that I think President Biden said that the biggest crisis we have today is climate change, which is there’s a lot of crises, but you hear this and that yet companies are flocking to Miami. I would think that Miami would be number one in climate change crisis potentially, but that city has grown like crazy. So apparently people aren’t paying attention to that or they don’t agree with Biden in that. But that concerns me because it seems like Miami would be right in direct line of hurricanes and then they’ve been saying for years that city’s sinking into the ocean. So I don’t know, maybe it’s not as bad as they say, but that to me is the biggest concern and that probably reflects in the insurance.

James:
And Miami’s insurance has increased dramatically and that’s what makes it hard to be a buy and hold investor there. It’s 31% higher than the national average and is climbing every year, and it’s also another tough state to get insurance in. And so the cash flow is a little bit tight in that market. And then when you start stacking on these insurance costs and the property taxes that are increasing because the market is moving up, it does make it hard to be a buy and hold investor. I do like the fundamentals of quality living, the lower taxes, the attractiveness of the investor, but these costs are a real issue for investors.

Henry:
I just did a quick search and what I’m seeing here is the average cost for a policy with a $300,000 dwelling coverage is approximately $3,500 per year, which is 56% higher than the Florida average and 104% higher than the national average. That’s crazy.

Dave:
104% higher.

Henry:
That’s insane.

Dave:
Okay. I’ve heard from a couple of real estate investors who I know who are trying to get out of Florida buy and hold just because the costs just aren’t worth the taxes and the expenses. It’s really interesting because people tend to want to go to Florida because there’s no state income tax, but states need to raise money somehow. And so they often do that through property taxes and that, especially if you’re an out-of-state investor, disproportionately impacts you negatively, right? Because you don’t get the benefit of no income tax as much as you would if you live there, but you have to pay higher property taxes. Happens in Texas too. So it’s just something that you have to think about if you’re going to consider investing in one of these markets.

Kathy:
Dave, I’m so glad you brought that up because people do give California a hard time. And one thing that we actually do have in our favor is really low property taxes and they stay there. They only go up very small amounts every year. So I do have two short-term rentals in the Los Angeles County area and they’ve performed really well. But there are regulations that people need to be aware of when it comes to short-term rentals and make sure you follow them. But property, I mean our property taxes are 0.07% in Los Angeles County. That’s really low.

Henry:
That’s super low.

Dave:
Yeah. The national average for property tax is about 1% just for record, so 0.7 in California would be below. Just as a benchmark, in Texas it’s 2%. So it’s double that. And that might not sound like a lot, but it can really add up.

Henry:
Oh boy.

Kathy:
And some areas are 3% or 4%, but our insurance in California definitely trumps everyone, even Florida. It’s worse here in California.

Dave:
All right, before we get out of here, I need to know your picks. James, since you’re the only qualified person here, who do you think?

James:
You got to go Chiefs. I fundamentally cannot root for the Niners.

Kathy:
Hey, hey, hey now.

James:
Go Mahomes.

Dave:
All right. Kathy’s a homer, so we already know this one.

Kathy:
Listen, Brock Purdy, he’s the age of my daughter. How can you not love him? You just got to love him. He’s got to … Come on.

Dave:
I’m not really following that logic.

Henry:
Yeah, I don’t know if I’m following either logic.

Kathy:
I mean, okay, so Taylor Swift, I do want to see Taylor Swift in the audience too. So you know what? All good. Both teams, they should both win either way. Let’s make it a tie.

Dave:
One of my buddies is a big Chiefs fan, so I’ll just say Chiefs. What about you, Henry?

Henry:
Well, unlike these two people, I’m actually going to make a prediction based on the football skill that’s involved in playing this game. James won’t pick the 49ers because he can’t, emotionally can’t, and Kathy thinks Brock Purdy is pretty. So I just think Kansas City is the better team. I think Patrick Mahomes is playing phenomenally.

Dave:
So good.

Henry:
He’s one of the best quarterbacks we’ve seen play the game of football in a long time. Yes, you look at some of the greats and I think when it’s all said and done, he’ll be up there with some of the greats. It’s just incredible to watch what he can do with a football. And I think that because he’s dating Taylor Swift, his football skill has been downplayed. So Travis-

Dave:
He’s not dating Taylor Swift. Travis Kelce is dating Taylor Swift.

Henry:
No, I’m talking about … No, that’s where I was going. I transitioned. Because he’s dating Taylor Swift, his football skills have been downplayed, but Travis Kelce is incredible and has been playing phenomenal. I mean look, I grew up a Raiders fan, so I shouldn’t even be allowed to say this, but Kansas City is going to win and it’s pretty cool watching how well they’ve been playing.

Dave:
All right, great. Well, thank you for your predictions, your insights, your real estate discussion, and all the nonsense that went on in the show. It was a lot of fun. Thank you all so much for listening and we appreciate it. I hope you all enjoy your Super Bowl festivities if you’re watching. I know not everyone even likes watching it. To be honest, this will be my first time watching it in like three or four years, but I’m excited to do it with all of you. Again, if anyone’s in the Denver area on the 12th, we’re having a meetup, make sure to just Google that. You can find that on BiggerPockets. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you for the next episode of On The Market.
On The Market was created by me, Dave Meyer, and Kailyn Bennett. The show is produced by Kailyn Bennett, with editing by Exodus Media. Copywriting is by Calico Content, and we want to extend a big thank you to everyone at BiggerPockets for making this show possible.

Michael Pettis of Carnegie China says we are beginning to see the impact of China’s high debt-to-GDP levels and the country will need another source of real growth if the “rapid expansion” of infrastructure comes to an end.